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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 7:09 am 
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Morning.


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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 7:16 am 
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https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ctory-site


Hundreds to lose jobs as Britvic shuts down Norwich factory site
Transfer of production of Robinsons and Fruit Shoot to different UK locations ‘a hammer blow for workers’, says union


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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 7:26 am 
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https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... omely-past


Our Christmas of excess has forgotten its handmade and homely past
Ian Jack


Nah,homemade cards,little decoration,zero alcohol intake(although horrendous hangovers which I can never figure out,some sort of transference from the imbibers),annual avoiding of Queen's speech,recycling of previously given xmas presents as presents or vouchers at a push and continued tutting at the World.The only compromise on the excess side is doing crosswords,of which there are plenty and possibly prize winning.


Bah humbug.


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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 9:17 am 
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https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/ ... -christmas


Britons set new gin record after buying 47m bottles this year


Half of that is one consumer


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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 9:30 am 
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I am sorry for adding to the links to Graun front page stories above (I can't see them, but I can guess) but what do we all think of Blair?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ver-europe

I, of course, think he is right about Corbyn and the EU. But I now think the chances of stopping Brexit are zero. Labour just isn't prepared to oppose it, and without an opposition lone voices like Blair's cannot succeed.


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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 9:42 am 
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http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1685672 ... inisterial


Labour Press
Debbie Abrahams comments on Written Ministerial Statement on Employment and Support Allowance

Debbie Abrahams MP, Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary, commenting on the Written Ministerial Statement on Employment and Support Allowance, said:

“It is a damning indictment of this Government and their incompetence that 75,000 people in receipt of ESA were underpaid between 2011 and 2014 and this information has only now been put in the public domain.

“The statement spells out a litany of failures by officials and Ministers. Ministers have known about this issue for nearly a year, but chose not to inform Parliament immediately. The Secretary of State must come before Parliament to explain how such a huge error was not rectified sooner and to outline in detail how he will ensure all those affected will receive the payments they are due.”


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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 9:43 am 
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My Right Honourable Friend [The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions] (The Rt. Hon. David Gauke MP) has made the following Written Statement.
Employment and Support Allowance (ESA) was introduced in 2008. In 2011 the Department began reassessing people claiming pre-existing incapacity benefits to see whether they were eligible for ESA. The previous benefits included Incapacity Benefit, Severe Disablement Allowance and Income Support.
In 2013, the Department was made aware of individual cases which were transferred in error to contributory ESA, rather than to income-related ESA, and therefore which may have had an unidentified entitlement to additional premia, such as the enhanced disability premium. These premia are only payable to those on income-related benefits. From 2014 additional guidance was put in place to ensure all claims transitioning from that point forward were more fully assessed for both contributory and income-related benefits, and therefore the relevant premia paid.
At the time officials did not identify the need to explore the potential impact of the earlier error. This was reconsidered in the light of analysis following the preliminary Fraud and Error statistics published in May 2016. In February 2017, ministers were first informed of the results of this analysis and a sampling exercise began in preparation for a full repayment process. The Department has already started contacting individuals to establish if there has been an underpayment of premia. A small number of claims have already been corrected and the appropriate arrears have been paid.
As a result of the sampling exercise, the Department estimates that around 75,000 claimants may have been underpaid. This amounts to about 5% of those people who transferred over from incapacity benefits, or around 3% of the current ESA caseload.
We realise how important it is to get this matter fixed. The Department has established a special team to begin contacting all individuals whom we believe may be affected. There is therefore no need for individuals to independently contact the department on this matter. Once an individual is contacted and subject to establishing the relevant information, we expect to make a decision on each case and repay the appropriate arrears within 12 weeks. The Department expects to complete the review and correct cases during the course of 2018/19.
This relates to a specific group that transferred to contributory ESA between 2011 and 2014, for which applicable underpayments will now be corrected and paid. Arrears are payable to those who qualify from 21 October 2014 following an Upper Tier Tribunal ruling in the case of LH v SSWP on that date. Under Section 27 of the Social Security Act 1998, when a tribunal establishes the meaning of a legislative provision, payments of arrears which pre-date the tribunal ruling are barred.
The Department is reviewing its processes to ensure any lessons are learnt and that this error is avoided in the future.


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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 9:46 am 
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FFS.


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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 9:53 am 
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Still less percentage of Guardian links than the accuser.Numeracy must be a weak spot.


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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 9:57 am 
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Literacy not so hot either,I suggest.Enter a room,discriminate in a targeted fashion go to others and slag off.


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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 10:01 am 
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Thoroughly convinced by the "I can guess" thing I don't know about anyone else.


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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 10:04 am 
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Vote Banana


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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 10:13 am 
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PF you can stop buying now.


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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 10:19 am 
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Have I read the Written Statement correctly,only from tribunal date rather than full reimbursement of monies owed?


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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 10:26 am 
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Only a few stolen from when too sick/disabled to work,can't see the fuss,myself,probably faking it,especially the ones no longer here.


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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 10:29 am 
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Good morning

Yes, MrA was a typically snide post wasn't it?

As to Blair - a talented politician but not as much as he thought he was. Took over at a good time and made some needed changes to the party but took it too far. Started off well and did some good things (but I think Brown may have been setting the agenda too) but then started to believe in his own greatness and morphed into a self-centred, arrogant right-winger who lost all sense of his direction

I also think he is a liar - he took us to war based on untruths in my view and I found voting Labour in 2005 a real difficulty

As to the EU - he is entitled to his view and I agree with some of what he says and disagree with other bits. Trouble is he is not trusted or listened to now - actually he is an irrelevance


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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 10:32 am 
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@RO'T
Quote:
Is it just me or is Twitter utterly hopeless when you have a less than 100% effective broadband connection?

Not just you, we've had problems with our broadband this week and yes, utterly hopeless.

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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 10:39 am 
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Still hasn't forgiven me over the Xmas jumper I sent him last year.I think the damage is irreparable


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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 10:40 am 
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HindleA wrote:
Have I read the Written Statement correctly,only from tribunal date rather than full reimbursement of monies owed?

They're talking about 2 different groups of people? 1) transferring 2011-2014, 2) from Oct 2014? Not very clear.

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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 10:44 am 
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Ah ok.I am out of the loop,not so conscientious as at least tried to be,I still shudder at brown envelopes even though a couple of years free from the tentacles,criminalised use of language of the DWP and agents of etc.


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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 10:49 am 
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HindleA wrote:
Vote Banana


Morning, Morning.

Non Bendy, EU Lovin' Banana Party? :D :D


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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 10:50 am 
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Read that piece about Angela Rayner in the Mirror, her story is indeed inspiring in many ways.

The comments underneath it though :toss:


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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 10:53 am 
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HindleA wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/dec/16/britons-set-new-gin-record-after-buying-47m-bottles-this-year-supermarkets-christmas


Britons set new gin record after buying 47m bottles this year


Half of that is one consumer


Indeed - and I note said consumer is not up at the time of your writing.

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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 10:55 am 
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Oh and if Blair really cares about Brexit, the best service he can provide to the cause is to SHUT UP.


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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 10:55 am 
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Or indeed now.

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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 10:56 am 
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Vis a vis links and disingenuousness, it recalls to mind those heady days when a packaged blame reckons above the headline.

(http://watchout4snakes.com/wo4snakes/ra ... omsentence)

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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 11:02 am 
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PF now managed to get to computer,she had to get a forklift to remove some of the empties


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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 11:03 am 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Oh and if Blair really cares about Brexit, the best service he can provide to the cause is to SHUT UP.



I wonder. I do take his point that there are not hundreds of others lining up to make the case though. Some of those on the Labour side who are (most obviously Umunna) are completely compromised by voting for art 50. There are some others (Mary Creagh) but they are just not high profile figures unfortunately.

He is also just more articulate than other in making the case.

But, Iraq, Iraq.

Unless Labour can be swung behind opposing the government's position I can't see any hope. And that requires a change of leadership, and there us zero chance of that.

Doomed then, but we need some people inpublic life saying the truth.


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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 11:04 am 
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Morning.

I don't know if people have access to Times articles, but if you do I found this interesting even if admittedly I didn't follow all of it. The gist seems to be, however, that dominant brands such as Amazon are part of our productivity puzzle and government regulatory response (or lack of) may the the reason the UK has been more impacted by these dominant firms than other countries. I'd be interested to knows if others agree or disagree with my interpretation. It's certainly a different way of looking at the UK's productivity problem:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/what ... -c8b5k6j75

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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 11:05 am 
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Out of sequence.


Last edited by HindleA on Sat 16 Dec, 2017 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 11:05 am 
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Good morfternoon.


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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 11:28 am 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Oh and if Blair really cares about Brexit, the best service he can provide to the cause is to SHUT UP.



I wonder. I do take his point that there are not hundreds of others lining up to make the case though. Some of those on the Labour side who are (most obviously Umunna) are completely compromised by voting for art 50. There are some others (Mary Creagh) but they are just not high profile figures unfortunately.

He is also just more articulate than other in making the case.

But, Iraq, Iraq.

Unless Labour can be swung behind opposing the government's position I can't see any hope. And that requires a change of leadership, and there us zero chance of that.

Doomed then, but we need some people inpublic life saying the truth.

I've said it many time but I'll say it again.
The only thing that will overtake /overthrow "the will of the people" will be when car production is moved out of the UK to another EU country, and I can see that happening now that Japan has a trade deal with the EU. EU will offer a regional grant for them to move to an EU area that needs regeneration.
Only when "real" jobs (as in not bankers jobs) start to go in big numbers will people wake up to what they have done. By then it could be way too late - sadly.
Blair has some very good points, the main one for me being there is no prominent person speaking out for staying in the EU. Whether he is the one to do it - and pull it off - remains to be seen. If he does I'll be cheering him on, regardless of the past.


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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 12:31 pm 
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Martin Rowson on the progress of Brexit talks – cartoon

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ks-cartoon


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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 12:33 pm 
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AngryAsWell wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Oh and if Blair really cares about Brexit, the best service he can provide to the cause is to SHUT UP.



I wonder. I do take his point that there are not hundreds of others lining up to make the case though. Some of those on the Labour side who are (most obviously Umunna) are completely compromised by voting for art 50. There are some others (Mary Creagh) but they are just not high profile figures unfortunately.

He is also just more articulate than other in making the case.

But, Iraq, Iraq.

Unless Labour can be swung behind opposing the government's position I can't see any hope. And that requires a change of leadership, and there us zero chance of that.

Doomed then, but we need some people inpublic life saying the truth.

I've said it many time but I'll say it again.
The only thing that will overtake /overthrow "the will of the people" will be when car production is moved out of the UK to another EU country, and I can see that happening now that Japan has a trade deal with the EU. EU will offer a regional grant for them to move to an EU area that needs regeneration.
Only when "real" jobs (as in not bankers jobs) start to go in big numbers will people wake up to what they have done. By then it could be way too late - sadly.
Blair has some very good points, the main one for me being there is no prominent person speaking out for staying in the EU. Whether he is the one to do it - and pull it off - remains to be seen. If he does I'll be cheering him on, regardless of the past.


(NARRATOR'S VOICE - "he isn't")

Don't get me wrong, I genuinely wish it was otherwise. But the polls don't show Blair as one of the most unpopular and toxic politicians out there for nothing.

Given how he once - almost literally - had this country at his command, its the stuff of genuine tragedy.


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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 12:34 pm 
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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -over-date

Quote:
Theresa May to back Brexit compromise to quell rebellion over date


The possibility of an extension to the article 50 process is starting to shuffle into view. And a transition on current EU membership terms is looking more and more likely, despite Gore's unrealistic flights of fancy.

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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 12:40 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/15/theresa-may-brexit-compromise-quell-rebellion-over-date

Quote:
Theresa May to back Brexit compromise to quell rebellion over date


The possibility of an extension to the article 50 process is starting to shuffle into view. And a transition on current EU membership terms is looking more and more likely, despite Gore's unrealistic flights of fancy.


What has the former VPOTUS had to say about this, then? ;)


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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 1:11 pm 
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DUTCH Prime Minister Mark Rutte has declared he would "be all too happy" for Britain to backtrack on Brexit and remain in the EU.

"He went on to tell Theresa May to make up her mind on what she wants from the EU
As far as I know legally we could rescind the whole process.”

http://www.cetusnews.com/news/-Ditch-Br ... IFbGG.html


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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 1:23 pm 
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Sorry still can't do you tube but this brought a tear to my eye

European Peace
Pan-European Movement

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB0RbdGE30Q&sns=tw


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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 1:29 pm 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB0RbdGE30Q&sns=tw

[youtube]RB0RbdGE30Q&sns=tw[/youtube]

FAIL ! :-)


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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 1:40 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
Have I read the Written Statement correctly,only from tribunal date rather than full reimbursement of monies owed?
I think Gauke means that though his phrasing is unwieldy, ambiguous.
Quote:
"...when a tribunal establishes the meaning of a legislative provision, payments of arrears which pre-date the tribunal ruling are barred."

http://www.parliament.uk/business/publi ... 4/HCWS356/
Okay, what about when a tribunal determining Tory fouled ups resulted in underpaid entitlements? Reimbursement starting from the date of the foul up, right, Gauke?


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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 1:41 pm 
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frog222 wrote:


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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 1:42 pm 
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Good-afternoon, everyone


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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 1:47 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Oh and if Blair really cares about Brexit, the best service he can provide to the cause is to SHUT UP.

I don't know


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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 1:47 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/15/theresa-may-brexit-compromise-quell-rebellion-over-date

Quote:
Theresa May to back Brexit compromise to quell rebellion over date


The possibility of an extension to the article 50 process is starting to shuffle into view. And a transition on current EU membership terms is looking more and more likely, despite Gore's unrealistic flights of fancy.


What has the former VPOTUS had to say about this, then? ;)



Um.....he's worried if we're still part of the fishing quota during transition we won't be able to unilaterally reduce fishing in the North Sea to protect cod stocks? :oops:
Yeah, I'm not sure Al Gore has strong feelings one way or another :D

Michael Gove, however, "wants the UK to immediately leave the common agricultural and EU fisheries policies".

Hope that's clearer (stupid predictive text!).

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Last edited by Willow904 on Sat 16 Dec, 2017 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 1:50 pm 
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Brexit: Can Leavers and Remainers call a Christmas truce?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-polit ... ssion=true


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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 1:53 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
Still hasn't forgiven me over the Xmas jumper I sent him last year.I think the damage is irreparable

Be fair. You had qualms about the jumper. Send an apology and be done.


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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 1:56 pm 
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citizenJA wrote:
HindleA wrote:
Have I read the Written Statement correctly,only from tribunal date rather than full reimbursement of monies owed?
I think Gauke means that though his phrasing is unwieldy, ambiguous.
Quote:
"...when a tribunal establishes the meaning of a legislative provision, payments of arrears which pre-date the tribunal ruling are barred."

http://www.parliament.uk/business/publi ... 4/HCWS356/
Okay, what about when a tribunal determining Tory fouled ups resulted in underpaid entitlements? Reimbursement starting from the date of the foul up, right, Gauke?
It's a jackass way to phrase it


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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 2:35 pm 
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His oft repeated policy is to ignore me yet know what I have posted,there will be no apology,ignored or otherwise.


Last edited by HindleA on Sat 16 Dec, 2017 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 2:35 pm 
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AngryAsWell wrote:
Brexit: Can Leavers and Remainers call a Christmas truce?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-polit ... ssion=true



Probably not :

Anna Soubry receives messages calling for her to be hanged as a traitor

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... tor-brexit


I'm respecting the referendum result less and less every day...


Last edited by Lost Soul on Sat 16 Dec, 2017 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec, 2017 2:38 pm 
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citizenJA wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Oh and if Blair really cares about Brexit, the best service he can provide to the cause is to SHUT UP.

I don't know


I think this country has had quite enough of 'shutting up'.

We're in this position because not enough has been said.


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