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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 7:10 am 
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Morning all.


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 7:55 am 
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Good morfternoon.


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 8:35 am 
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I missed this yesterday - so sorry if it's a repeat. Am I the first today to make a link to the Guardian?

Quote:
Brexit is putting me off this whole ‘will of the people’ idea

Matthew d'Ancona (Guardian)


Ah, Raymond Williams - there's a blast from my past.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/dec/17/brexit-will-of-the-people-vassal-state-populism


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 9:18 am 
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Debbie Abrahams MP‏Verified account
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34m34 minutes ago
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Work and Pensions oral questions this afternoon at 230pm. See you there!


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 9:54 am 
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https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/yo ... -1-8914573
"Yorkshire’s Brexit resistance: Why campaigners in Leeds, York and Sheffield think EU departure can be stopped"
Nice to read that they think opinion is changing, but maybe more surprising was that (at least at time of posting) was there was only one comment & it was in support from France "Hi from your twin town Lille... Hope you manage to stop this nonsense !", non of the 'suck it up remoaners' stuff yet.


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 10:39 am 
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Quote:
On the Today programme this morning Iain Duncan Smith, the Conservative former work and pensions secretary and prominent Brexiter, said he did not accept the argument that a Brexit trade deal allowing the UK to diverge from the EU would be bad for trade. He said:

l don’t buy this idea of a fixed position in the world. It’s not a case of less trade, it’s a case of a different type of trade, and British business will have to learn, as they do, to get by in a different world. (Politics Live, Guardian)


That would be the different world that Iain Smith, Liam Fox et al inhabit, presumably.


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 11:10 am 
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The idea that IDS has influence in govt and the media is no less frightening than it's ever been.

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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 11:11 am 
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Ebbw Vale and the EU.
https://twitter.com/jonworth/status/942686004787458048

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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 12:28 pm 
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Good-afternoon, everyone


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 12:39 pm 
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Afternoon, folks. Press release from Newcastle Council:

Newcastle residents feeling the impact of austerity cuts

Massive cuts in Government funding are affecting how Newcastle residents feel about living in their city.

A survey of residents commissioned by Newcastle City Council demonstrates growing concerns about the state of public services, following years of austerity funding cuts to services provided by the Council.

By 2020, Government funding to the city will have fallen by £282 million – cuts equating to £268 per person in Newcastle, compared to an average of £131 per person in England.

Newcastle residents are becoming more pessimistic about their financial prospects over the next 12 months, with almost as many (22%) feeling their financial circumstances will get worse as those (23%) who believe they will improve. Also, whilst the great majority of residents (85%) are satisfied with their home as a place to live, there was a 6% fall in the numbers of residents who are satisfied with their affordability.

The survey identified a 13% increase (since 2015) in the number of residents reporting rubbish or litter as a problem and a 9% fall in resident satisfaction with the cleanliness of Newcastle’s streets. 58% residents wanted to see improvement in street cleaning as a top priority.

44% of residents reported being dissatisfied with the state of Newcastle’s roads and pavements and whilst a majority (56%) of residents are satisfied with refuse and waste collection, satisfaction levels have fallen over the last two years. Despite this, 76% of residents in the Survey were satisfied with Newcastle as a place to live.

Cllr Veronica Dunn, Cabinet Member for Resources, said: “Since the start of austerity, Newcastle Council has warned of the damage caused by unfair and disproportionate cuts. The council has played a key role in national lobbying efforts to stand up to austerity, and will continue to challenge this Government on the need to invest in our services.

“There are many positives in the Survey findings and it is gratifying to see that 73% agree that their local community is one where people from different backgrounds get on well together. However, the sheer scale of the cuts makes it impossible for the Council to deliver the same level of services – and it is no surprise that the proportion of residents who feel they are getting good value for money is falling.

“We are doing our very best to minimise the impacts of the funding cuts on the city, particularly for our most vulnerable communities. However, it is clear that many people are feeling real change in the way that the Council is able provide services and this is causing increasing dissatisfaction. Listening to public concerns and responding to need is more important than ever in these challenging times and that is exactly what we will be doing as a council.


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 12:46 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
Quote:
On the Today programme this morning Iain Duncan Smith, the Conservative former work and pensions secretary and prominent Brexiter, said he did not accept the argument that a Brexit trade deal allowing the UK to diverge from the EU would be bad for trade. He said:

l don’t buy this idea of a fixed position in the world. It’s not a case of less trade, it’s a case of a different type of trade, and British business will have to learn, as they do, to get by in a different world. (Politics Live, Guardian)
That would be the different world that Iain Smith, Liam Fox et al inhabit, presumably.
(cJA emphasis)

Businesses to learn and get by post-Brexit UK? Did IDS tell the general public this information before the referendum vote? What different type of trade is the UK supposed to conjure up? I'm frightened of what IDS has in mind.


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 12:49 pm 
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gilsey wrote:
The idea that IDS has influence in govt and the media is no less frightening than it's ever been.


Fortunately, it is starting to appear he doesn't have as much as he might wish.

Small mercies......


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 1:19 pm 
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Stefaan De Rynck, Michel Barnier’s senior adviser, is speaking at Chatham House now.

He says what worries people on the EU side is that the UK will leave the single market, and the EU will be asked to trust them about not lowering standards. That does not provide enough “glue” to hold it together, he says. (Politics Live, Guardian)


In other words, "We don't trust you further than we can throw you."


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 1:22 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
Quote:
Stefaan De Rynck, Michel Barnier’s senior adviser, is speaking at Chatham House now.

He says what worries people on the EU side is that the UK will leave the single market, and the EU will be asked to trust them about not lowering standards. That does not provide enough “glue” to hold it together, he says. (Politics Live, Guardian)


In other words, "We don't trust you further than we can throw you."


The rest of the press conference seems to be him saying 'we, on the other hand, mean what we say.'

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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 1:26 pm 
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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... och-lomond

Four people in hospital after fire in hotel on banks of Loch Lomond


Eek.

One of my Aunt's friends got mowed down by a car overtaking a bus in nearby Alexandria recently,she didn't have an earthly,hardly increased her confidence,limited mobility,of attempting to go to shops,crossing roads etc.

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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 1:42 pm 
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Why does Dumbarton turn to Dunbartonshire?

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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 1:45 pm 
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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... ing-report


Building regulations unfit for purpose, Grenfell review finds

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/inte ... ire-safety

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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 1:48 pm 
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Also,annoyingly to me dropped sensible ones that would have made any future adaptions easier,ridding "red tape" that would have saved countless facillitated people staying in their own homes etc.

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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 2:17 pm 
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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/bl ... 0742adb4a5
Quote:
Theresa May is not the only person suggesting that the UK may be able to agree a bespoke trade deal with the EU giving it many of the benefits of membership. The left-leaning IPPR thinktank has published interesting proposals for a “shared market” arrangementthat would achieve much of what May wants.

The details given sound very similar to the proposals a couple of weeks ago by the British Irish Chamber of commerce, a customs union between UK & eu, and a pick & mix approach to getting various benefits from different existing eu deals, i.e this bit like Ukraine's got, another like Lichtenstein, another like S.Korea etc.


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 2:40 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
---
One of my Aunt's friends got mowed down by a car overtaking a bus in nearby Alexandria recently,she didn't have an earthly,hardly increased her confidence,limited mobility,of attempting to go to shops,crossing roads etc.
That's awful


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 2:55 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
Quote:
On the Today programme this morning Iain Duncan Smith, the Conservative former work and pensions secretary and prominent Brexiter, said he did not accept the argument that a Brexit trade deal allowing the UK to diverge from the EU would be bad for trade. He said:

l don’t buy this idea of a fixed position in the world. It’s not a case of less trade, it’s a case of a different type of trade, and British business will have to learn, as they do, to get by in a different world. (Politics Live, Guardian)


That would be the different world that Iain Smith, Liam Fox et al inhabit, presumably.


George Smith, please.


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 3:05 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
Why does Dumbarton turn to Dunbartonshire?


I think the county town has also been known as Du*n*barton in the past. Sorry I can't offer a more exciting explanation ;)


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 3:06 pm 
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gilsey wrote:


I don't buy this "Labour didn't have to try" stuff. Something like tax credits strongly benefits low paid workers in poor areas, as did the public services investment. The EU doesn't just rock up and put a road in, the Welsh Government has to commit a lot of its own money to these projects. It's doing up next bit of the main road to Ebbw Vale right now.

Welsh Valleys are just a hard place to regenerate, post coal.You don't get Microsoft turn up there. Even Germany has the problem of its more remote regions lagging behind the bits closer to the action. Only Ireland, which got in first as the low tax place has been able to stand against that, to some extent.


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 3:08 pm 
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Compare the Valleys with Northern France. France has spent much more, done much more planning, and still has lots of the same problems. Plus the Front Nationale won the Pas de Calais in the presidential election.

It's not easy, this stuff. Whatever the likes of Plaid and the SNP like to think.


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 3:12 pm 
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Actually, all sorts like to pretend it's easier than it is. "Just move X out of London". Well, often "X" likes being in London.


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 3:21 pm 
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Lots of things aren't easy, that doesn't automatically mean we shouldn't make at least some effort to do them.


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 3:25 pm 
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Tubby Isaacs wrote:
gilsey wrote:


I don't buy this "Labour didn't have to try" stuff. Something like tax credits strongly benefits low paid workers in poor areas, as did the public services investment. The EU doesn't just rock up and put a road in, the Welsh Government has to commit a lot of its own money to these projects. It's doing up next bit of the main road to Ebbw Vale right now.

Welsh Valleys are just a hard place to regenerate, post coal.You don't get Microsoft turn up there. Even Germany has the problem of its more remote regions lagging behind the bits closer to the action. Only Ireland, which got in first as the low tax place has been able to stand against that, to some extent.

And, how come their Transporter Bridge has a visitor centre and ours hasn't? :D

At least as far as I know.

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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 3:29 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Lots of things aren't easy, that doesn't automatically mean we shouldn't make at least some effort to do them.



We should move those pieces of public administration to the regions to save costs.

But.

Areas of the country are not people, We have no interest in their equality. If it is economically counter-productive to try to buck the market by investing in certain areas of the country, don't. Encourage internal migration by building infrastucture in the areas of the country that are rich. We are much to sentimental in the UK about parts of the country.

Help the poor by giving them money. Don't waste precious resources trying to stop the tide coming in.


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 3:39 pm 
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@gilsey

https://www.middlesbrough.gov.uk/parkin ... ter-bridge

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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 3:41 pm 
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Godfrey Bloom - oh dear.

B-but........I thought that anti-semitism was only a problem on the left these days?


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 4:08 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Lots of things aren't easy, that doesn't automatically mean we shouldn't make at least some effort to do them.


Plenty of people have been making plenty of effort.


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 4:12 pm 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Lots of things aren't easy, that doesn't automatically mean we shouldn't make at least some effort to do them.



We should move those pieces of public administration to the regions to save costs.


But.

Areas of the country are not people, We have no interest in their equality. If it is economically counter-productive to try to buck the market by investing in certain areas of the country, don't. Encourage internal migration by building infrastucture in the areas of the country that are rich. We are much to sentimental in the UK about parts of the country.

Help the poor by giving them money. Don't waste precious resources trying to stop the tide coming in.


What if the public administrators don't want to move? The good ones will leave rather than be moved to somewhere nobody else wants to live.


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 4:17 pm 
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I'm sure more government offices could be moved out of London. But there's a limit to where they can be moved to. Reading or similar, sure.

Ebbw Vale, Grimsby, Plymouth? Doubtful.


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 4:40 pm 
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The most spectacularly dreadful soi-disant left leaver. Mr Paul Embry of the FBU.

Quote:
Paul Embery @PaulEmbery
Sorry, I'm not buying into this hysteria over pro-EU MPs receiving death threats. They should get a grip and take some advice from the great Tony Benn:
"I received a death threat last week. I was so thrilled that someone thought I was still dangerous. I hadn't had one in ages."


Right, yeah. Because Benn was being completely seriously. And anyway, what about Jo Cox? Lots of people duly handed Paul his arse.

But he had a reply.

Quote:
Paul Embery @PaulEmbery
Right, I've spent too long in Snowflake City this afternoon. Time to get back to the real world.


The real world where death threats to MPs, egged on by hysterial mass market newspapers is just a joke.


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 4:45 pm 
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Tubby Isaacs wrote:
I'm sure more government offices could be moved out of London. But there's a limit to where they can be moved to. Reading or similar, sure.

Ebbw Vale, Grimsby, Plymouth? Doubtful.


Plymouth shouldn't be an impossible sell I would have thought?


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 4:51 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
I'm sure more government offices could be moved out of London. But there's a limit to where they can be moved to. Reading or similar, sure.

Ebbw Vale, Grimsby, Plymouth? Doubtful.


Plymouth shouldn't be an impossible sell I would have thought?


Bit remote, I reckon.


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 4:54 pm 
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Oh man, Paul Embry retweeted this.

Quote:
PaulPopper‏ @formerleft
Replying to @PaulEmbery
so many critics of multiculturalism as a political dogma are black or Asian. Kenan Malik is one of the best critics of it and he's Asian. These people are deeply ignorant.


That's pure Brent, where he assumes the black guy was the one who complained about his "black man's cock" joke.


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 4:57 pm 
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The EU's the one that's got all the problems, Part 50.

Quote:
Matthew Goodwin‏Verified account @GoodwinMJ
Matthew Goodwin Retweeted Andrew Neil
And not only Germany. Record delay in forming coalition in Netherlands, fragmenting party systems across EU & big divide on refugees. But hey, keep talking about Macron


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 4:58 pm 
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People, *this* is what "Lexitism" looks like. It really isn't comparable to most of the stuff Corbyn and McDonnell come out with.


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 5:04 pm 
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Tubby Isaacs wrote:
The most spectacularly dreadful soi-disant left leaver. Mr Paul Embry of the FBU.

Quote:
Paul Embery @PaulEmbery
Sorry, I'm not buying into this hysteria over pro-EU MPs receiving death threats. They should get a grip and take some advice from the great Tony Benn:
"I received a death threat last week. I was so thrilled that someone thought I was still dangerous. I hadn't had one in ages."


Right, yeah. Because Benn was being completely seriously. And anyway, what about Jo Cox? Lots of people duly handed Paul his arse.

But he had a reply.

Quote:
Paul Embery @PaulEmbery
Right, I've spent too long in Snowflake City this afternoon. Time to get back to the real world.


The real world where death threats to MPs, egged on by hysterial mass market newspapers is just a joke.


No surprise to see Spiked enthusiastically retweeting his stuff.

While I was there I noticed this...

Quote:
Institute of Ideas‏
@instofideas
3h3 hours ago
More
From around the globe, this is an absolutely must read collection of comments and thoughts. Plaudits to @spikedonline for organising such a brilliant initiative.

Meet the women worried about #MeToo


I'm shocked, shocked that an org which grew out of Living Marxism (sic) thinks that another offshoot of the same thing is great!

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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 5:06 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
People, *this* is what "Lexitism" looks like. It really isn't comparable to most of the stuff Corbyn and McDonnell come out with.


I just think of Paul Embry as the man in the pub, really. Sure he's a fireman and pro-unions, but if he did something else for a job, he'd be slagging off people like him.

Lexit as I understand it does have a genuine left-wing core and supports immigration. The problem is just that it thinks you can pass laws and raise taxes like you want, and solve all the problems.


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 5:11 pm 
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Actually that's not just parts of the left that think in those terms, is it? Brexit as a whole is like that (without the humane bits of Lexit).

Bernie Sanders is a classic of this sort too.


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 5:20 pm 
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RogerOThornhill wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
No surprise to see Spiked enthusiastically retweeting his stuff.

While I was there I noticed this...

Quote:
Institute of Ideas‏
@instofideas
3h3 hours ago
More
From around the globe, this is an absolutely must read collection of comments and thoughts. Plaudits to @spikedonline for organising such a brilliant initiative.

Meet the women worried about #MeToo


I'm shocked, shocked that an org which grew out of Living Marxism (sic) thinks that another offshoot of the same thing is great!


Yeah, no "media class" stuff there at all.

He's an enthusiastic Spiked man. Of all the things that exercise him, people getting offended is top of his list.

T


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 5:26 pm 
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http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolic ... ign=buffer
Quote:
Housing policy can’t be fixed until we treat houses as homes and not as stores of wealth


Given I keep saying how we have to stop financializing homes, this headline particularly appealed to me. When looked at in the right way, the solutions to the housing crisis appear rather more simple in practical terms than one would expect. It's convincing public and politicians to support them which gets tricky. Needless to say, deregulation and green belt free for alls don't get a mention, because these are solutions to land owners and house builders making more money and do nothing to change the distribution issues behind our housing crisis. There are plenty of planning permissions already being granted to satisfy demand for house purchases. What we don't have enough of is social and council housing and the cause of that is inextricably linked to political policy, not market economics.

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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 5:28 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 5:28 pm 
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Tubby Isaacs wrote:
I'm sure more government offices could be moved out of London. But there's a limit to where they can be moved to. Reading or similar, sure.

Ebbw Vale, Grimsby, Plymouth? Doubtful.



There was quite a movement of public sector offices back in the 80s. That might have been when the ONS was moved to Newport, and the DVLA to Swansea.

Ironically these are the ones which a long time later used to get the "Everyone in place X works for the public sector!" from the right kinda missing the point...

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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 5:30 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/social-housing-policy-part-2/?utm_content=buffer0ba88&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
Quote:
Housing policy can’t be fixed until we treat houses as homes and not as stores of wealth


Given I keep saying how we have to stop financializing homes, this headline particularly appealed to me. When looked at in the right way, the solutions to the housing crisis appear rather more simple in practical terms than one would expect. It's convincing public and politicians to support them which gets tricky. Needless to say, deregulation and green belt free for alls don't get a mention, because these are solutions to land owners and house builders making more money and do nothing to change the distribution issues behind our housing crisis. There are plenty of planning permissions already being granted to satisfy demand for house purchases. What we don't have enough of is social and council housing and the cause of that is inextricably linked to political policy, not market economics.


Supply, where people want to live, is surely important? Cambridge has managed to built lots beyond its outskirts, and is thriving.


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 5:33 pm 
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RogerOThornhill wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
I'm sure more government offices could be moved out of London. But there's a limit to where they can be moved to. Reading or similar, sure.

Ebbw Vale, Grimsby, Plymouth? Doubtful.



There was quite a movement of public sector offices back in the 80s. That might have been when the ONS was moved to Newport, and the DVLA to Swansea.

Ironically these are the ones which a long time later used to get the "Everyone in place X works for the public sector!" from the right kinda missing the point...


Ha ha, yes.

I've heard the ONS to Newport mentioned as problematic. It's not a very well off town, but Cardiff isn't far away, and for people wanting rural or small town, Abergavenny is just up the road with a quick commute to Newport. So if there was a problem there, there'll be problems with more remote and depressed places.


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 5:34 pm 
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Theresa May refuses to guarantee EU rules for 48-hour working week limit will survive Brexit
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 17106.html

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PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec, 2017 5:35 pm 
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