Tuesday 19th December 2017
Posted: Tue 19 Dec, 2017 7:10 am
Morning all.
Good morningSpinningHugo wrote:Corbyn confident
https://graziadaily.co.uk/life/in-the-n ... exclusive/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Peston on why Cake plus plus,(aka ceta plus plus plus) cabinet's likely to agree on, is unlikely to be accepted by eu...whenever I talk to Eurocrats about this concept for our trading future with the EU, they make a number of simple but crushing points. The first and most important is that they say that it would be fiendishly difficult to capture this idea of a journey towards divergence into a free-trade treaty. The point is that most free trade deals, including the one that the UK takes as the model for what it wants - Canada's with the EU, called CETA - works precisely because both parties talk the language of wanting to see gradual convergence of rules and regulations, not divergence.
It can't be opened from the outside so if there are keys, they must be purely ceremonial.tinybgoat wrote: Out of interest, if Jeremy does succeed and 'seize the keys to number 10', does anyone know if the prime minister literally possesses a front door key, or is it just opened/shut by Downing Street Staff?)
While I agree an extension to the article 50 process would be sensible, I'd imagine a transition period would be necessary as well. They serve different roles. An extension would allow more time to negotiate our new relationship and prepare alternatives to things like Eurotom. It would only be when the new relationship has been formally agreed that we would be in a position to start putting hard infrastructure in place at ports etc and thus a transition period would also be needed. Assuming May is to pursue a hard Brexit, of course. A soft Brexit may not require a formal transition period I suppose.tinybgoat wrote:
Nick Gutteridge on why transition period is stupid & we should have just asked for article 50 period to be extended.
(link taken from politico playbook https://www.politico.eu/newsletter/lond ... r-torpedo/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
I'd be surprised to see Tory MPs actively voting for another election in 2018 while they remain in such a vulnerable position.howsillyofme1 wrote:Good morningSpinningHugo wrote:Corbyn confident
https://graziadaily.co.uk/life/in-the-n ... exclusive/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
hardly the most in-depth article but then it doesn't pretend to be
More illuminating than the intention behind the post - do you think he should be confident or not?
So would I but then we didn't expect one in 2017 either and Corbyn has to keep putting on the pressure to try and get it to happenWillow904 wrote:I'd be surprised to see Tory MPs actively voting for another election in 2018 while they remain in such a vulnerable position.howsillyofme1 wrote:Good morningSpinningHugo wrote:Corbyn confident
https://graziadaily.co.uk/life/in-the-n ... exclusive/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
hardly the most in-depth article but then it doesn't pretend to be
More illuminating than the intention behind the post - do you think he should be confident or not?
Good Morning.howsillyofme1 wrote:Good morningSpinningHugo wrote:Corbyn confident
https://graziadaily.co.uk/life/in-the-n ... exclusive/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
hardly the most in-depth article but then it doesn't pretend to be
More illuminating than the intention behind the post - do you think he should be confident or not?
Except for newspaper tycoons, of course.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:The Guardian report that Barnier is specifically excluding the idea of a separate deal for the City is for me highly significant.
The Hard Brexiteers are now firmly in the wilderness, with minimal financial backing.
I agree, but also still don't see (from wording of art.50) why (with agreement) exit date can't just be set to an arbitrary date in the future, allowing time for infrastructure to be setup. Transition period would still be useful for hard brexit, to allow negotiating trade deals, though.Willow904 wrote:While I agree an extension to the article 50 process would be sensible, I'd imagine a transition period would be necessary as well. They serve different roles. An extension would allow more time to negotiate our new relationship and prepare alternatives to things like Eurotom. It would only be when the new relationship has been formally agreed that we would be in a position to start putting hard infrastructure in place at ports etc and thus a transition period would also be needed. Assuming May is to pursue a hard Brexit, of course. A soft Brexit may not require a formal transition period I suppose.tinybgoat wrote:
Nick Gutteridge on why transition period is stupid & we should have just asked for article 50 period to be extended.
(link taken from politico playbook https://www.politico.eu/newsletter/lond ... r-torpedo/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
SpinningHugo wrote:Corbyn confident
https://graziadaily.co.uk/life/in-the-n ... exclusive/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sting in the tail?I ask a couple of members of his team – which, interestingly, is mostly female – whether he is always so equable and friendly.
They say this is the real deal and he is great fun to work with. Then they add, almost absent-mindedly, that he’s forever going off on tangents, telling long stories; that they are constantly having to say, ‘Jeremy! Focus!’ when they need to discuss work with him. Is Corbyn likeable? Yes, definitely. But is he statesmanlike? The jury is still out on that.
I think the point of a transition period is that it would only be started once it has been agreed what we are transitioning to, so no, I don't think there'll be a cliff edge at the end of one. Unfortunately I'm not confident the government is capable of agreeing one. We only have a year to do so. If we fail we can decide to give up and ask to stay in, or we can ask to extend the article 50 process (which could prove to just delay the cliff edge or may provide the time necessary to do Brexit properly) or, if we do neither of these things, we'll crash out with no deal in March 2019.Lost Soul wrote:So, this transition period...
We still go off the cliff - but float down gently ?
..and end up broken on the same rocks.
A fair question to ask but one that is more pertinently posed to our useless PM and her foreign ministerfrog222 wrote:SpinningHugo wrote:Corbyn confident
https://graziadaily.co.uk/life/in-the-n ... exclusive/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;Sting in the tail?I ask a couple of members of his team – which, interestingly, is mostly female – whether he is always so equable and friendly.
They say this is the real deal and he is great fun to work with. Then they add, almost absent-mindedly, that he’s forever going off on tangents, telling long stories; that they are constantly having to say, ‘Jeremy! Focus!’ when they need to discuss work with him. Is Corbyn likeable? Yes, definitely. But is he statesmanlike? The jury is still out on that.
In a face-saving measure, No 10 will not withdraw its vote to set the date, but will instead agree to a set of amendments tabled by former Cabinet minister Sir Oliver Letwin that will effectively cancel it out.
And what does "statesmanlike" mean anyway?? Often it just seems to mean "looking/sounding the part". Which is how we got Cameron.howsillyofme1 wrote:A fair question to ask but one that is more pertinently posed to our useless PM and her foreign ministerfrog222 wrote:SpinningHugo wrote:Corbyn confident
https://graziadaily.co.uk/life/in-the-n ... exclusive/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;Sting in the tail?I ask a couple of members of his team – which, interestingly, is mostly female – whether he is always so equable and friendly.
They say this is the real deal and he is great fun to work with. Then they add, almost absent-mindedly, that he’s forever going off on tangents, telling long stories; that they are constantly having to say, ‘Jeremy! Focus!’ when they need to discuss work with him. Is Corbyn likeable? Yes, definitely. But is he statesmanlike? The jury is still out on that.
Compared to those two I have few concerns - and don't get me started on Cameron (shoHugo was sure he was 'eminently suited to the job')
All I want to point out who looked the most statesmanlike the day after Grenfell House - the person who spent time talking to victims and first responders in a dignified and empathetic way or the one that hid away from any member of the great unwashed?
We've had builders in - I could see them struggling so offered the use of my spirit levels...and a few other fundamental tools for the job.Willow904 wrote:I think the point of a transition period is that it would only be started once it has been agreed what we are transitioning to, so no, I don't think there'll be a cliff edge at the end of one. Unfortunately I'm not confident the government is capable of agreeing one. We only have a year to do so. If we fail we can decide to give up and ask to stay in, or we can ask to extend the article 50 process (which could prove to just delay the cliff edge or may provide the time necessary to do Brexit properly) or, if we do neither of these things, we'll crash out with no deal in March 2019.Lost Soul wrote:So, this transition period...
We still go off the cliff - but float down gently ?
..and end up broken on the same rocks.
That's the state of play as far as I understand it. So after the passage (or not) of the Withdrawal Bill, the next big moment will come in Autumn next year when we discover whether a deal is ready to be presented to the various Parliaments or not. If not we could be looking at the mother of all showdowns between the Eurosceptic and Europhile wings of the Tory party over what to do next - crash out or play for more time.
And what does "statesmanlike" mean anyway?? Often it just seems to mean "looking/sounding the part". Which is how we got Cameron.howsillyofme1 wrote:A fair question to ask but one that is more pertinently posed to our useless PM and her foreign ministerfrog222 wrote:SpinningHugo wrote:Corbyn confident
https://graziadaily.co.uk/life/in-the-n ... exclusive/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;Sting in the tail?I ask a couple of members of his team – which, interestingly, is mostly female – whether he is always so equable and friendly.
They say this is the real deal and he is great fun to work with. Then they add, almost absent-mindedly, that he’s forever going off on tangents, telling long stories; that they are constantly having to say, ‘Jeremy! Focus!’ when they need to discuss work with him. Is Corbyn likeable? Yes, definitely. But is he statesmanlike? The jury is still out on that.
Compared to those two I have few concerns - and don't get me started on Cameron (shoHugo was sure he was 'eminently suited to the job')
All I want to point out who looked the most statesmanlike the day after Grenfell House - the person who spent time talking to victims and first responders in a dignified and empathetic way or the one that hid away from any member of the great unwashed?
You need the kind of authority that comes from earning the respect of your peers in order to appear statesmanlike, you need to have actually achieved something from a position of power or influence (think Angela Merkel/Barack Obama/Nicholas Sarkozy). Something Cameron never really achieved in my opinion. It's also why leaders of the opposition can never appear statesmanlike - it's something that derives from a position of power and leadership, not a qualification for them.AnatolyKasparov wrote:And what does "statesmanlike" mean anyway?? Often it just seems to mean "looking/sounding the part". Which is how we got Cameron.howsillyofme1 wrote:A fair question to ask but one that is more pertinently posed to our useless PM and her foreign ministerfrog222 wrote:
Sting in the tail?
Compared to those two I have few concerns - and don't get me started on Cameron (shoHugo was sure he was 'eminently suited to the job')
All I want to point out who looked the most statesmanlike the day after Grenfell House - the person who spent time talking to victims and first responders in a dignified and empathetic way or the one that hid away from any member of the great unwashed?
A couple. Justice select committee during the Coalition years. I think it pertinent, though, that of his peers, Ken Livingstone was the one who sought positions of real power and influence on the GLC and as London Mayor, while Corbyn opted more for supportive campaign and lobbying roles. I rather doubt he'd match Ken's dynamism in office, to be frank.AnatolyKasparov wrote:Pretty sure that JC has served on HoC committees, yes. Though I leave it to somebody else to provide the details......
Which I assume is what Kevin McGuire meant when he tweeted he didn't think Corbyn would be PM because he didn't believe there would be an election in the next couple of years. He could well be right.AnatolyKasparov wrote:I wonder.
One of the reasons why I was reluctant to back Corbyn originally in 2015 was that it was fairly obvious he didn't want to be PM, and indeed was only reluctantly standing for leader (in his own words, he was doing it mainly because it was "his turn" from Labour's leading Campaign Groupers)
Has that all changed now? There are some indications it may have, though I remain not totally convinced he will still be there if this parliament runs its full course.
3m ago 13:56
Cabinet agrees to push ahead with demands for bespoke Brexit deal (Politics Live, Guardian)
Ah well, good luck with that.PorFavor wrote:
3m ago 13:56
Cabinet agrees to push ahead with demands for bespoke Brexit deal (Politics Live, Guardian)
Wait till they get the "economic levers", it'll all be brilliant then.HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... rty-groups
Scottish government welfare plans flawed, say anti-poverty groups
Organisations ‘disappointed’ by lack of clarity and no pledge to uprate payments in bill to enact newly devolved powers
Switzerland has free movement and participates in single market to a great extent via the bilateralsTubby Isaacs wrote:If you don't have FoM, then it's going to be "bespoke" all right. Though they should remember that Switzerland's bespoke arrangement is very unpopular.
Wealthy Bristol residents cause uproar by installing 'anti-bird spikes' to stop droppings hitting expensive cars
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 17786.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Wouldn't it be great if we had an opposition opposing this.AnatolyKasparov wrote:Ah well, good luck with that.PorFavor wrote:
3m ago 13:56
Cabinet agrees to push ahead with demands for bespoke Brexit deal (Politics Live, Guardian)
Opposing a deal?Wouldn't it be great if we had an opposition opposing this.
But we don't.[