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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 2:21 pm 
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I’m in the sauna with an angry Brexiteer as large as a sumo wrestler
Michael Harding: I knew that if I opened my mouth I could never unwind my rage. My anger would be incarnate in the air

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-sty ... -1.3324883


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 2:43 pm 
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Well, that was fairly revolting. Thanks . . .


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 3:12 pm 
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RTÉ's Tony Connelly on Brexit leaks: 'If you suppress a paper you've been given, you're crossing a line'
We talked to Ireland’s Brexit expert, who recently wrote a book on the topic.

http://www.thejournal.ie/tony-connelly- ... ign=buffer


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 4:06 pm 
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Power Prices Go Negative in Germany, a Positive for Energy Users

On Sunday, factory owners and other major consumers were at times paid more than 50 euros, about $60, per megawatt-hour, a wholesale measure, to take power.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/25/busi ... &smtyp=cur


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 4:55 pm 
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Mind you, Shed Seven are crap

https://www.instagram.com/p/BdNkkfqAR9r/


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 5:22 pm 
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Quote:
Far Right Watch
‏@Far_Right_Watch
3h3 hours ago
More Far Right Watch Retweeted Simon Thomas
Seems #Ukip's Nathan Gill has quit the Welsh Assembly. Well, officially. In fact he was rarely ever there, not at his other full-time public-paid job, as an MEP in the EU.

2 jobs. He did neither. That is so #Ukip.


:D

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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 5:59 pm 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
refitman wrote:



I agree with Adonis

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... gin-trains

Chris Grayling is a complete moron. Who knew? A disgrace.

That isn't the way the franchising system is supposed to work. I don't think nationalising will do any good at all, but the government should have held Stagecoach to their bargain, which was a good deal for the rest of us.


See Roger Ford of Modern Railways quoted here. The latter stages of the contract can't be delivered because of stuff Network Rail and the DfT won't be able to deliver.

http://zelo-street.blogspot.co.uk/2017/ ... wasnt.html

He thinks that even under the revised contract, Stagecoach have taken a hit to "stay in the game" to be able to bid on more franchises. The likelihood of far more franchises being available in the EU after 2023 (the "Lexiters" are right about that happening, I think) means it's very important to keep operating.


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 6:03 pm 
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Apologies to Paul, I know you don't like the word Lexiter. But I can't think of a better one. Accept my inverted commas as a sign I'm acknowledging your concerns, if you will.


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 6:11 pm 
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Jo Johnson's about to fall flat on his arse with this "universities free speech" stuff.

There's a new regulator coming in January, the Office for Students. Even if it really were "universities" banning "controversial speakers", rather than student unions, I don't think they or anyone else would much fancy arbitrating on who can and can't speak. And of course, it immediately comes up against the government's Prevent duties. Are universities supposed to host people then report everybody who attends their speeches?

Did they not piss away enough "citizens of nowhere" votes last time? I know this is grandstanding to a base, but even those like their kids/grandkids to go to university.


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 6:23 pm 
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Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Jo Johnson's about to fall flat on his arse with this "universities free speech" stuff.

There's a new regulator coming in January, the Office for Students. Even if it really were "universities" banning "controversial speakers", rather than student unions, I don't think they or anyone else would much fancy arbitrating on who can and can't speak. And of course, it immediately comes up against the government's Prevent duties. Are universities supposed to host people then report everybody who attends their speeches?

Did they not piss away enough "citizens of nowhere" votes last time? I know this is grandstanding to a base, but even those like their kids/grandkids to go to university.
Yeah, government isn't providing leadership, is it. Just a series of propaganda ads not making sense set alongside their own policies.


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 6:27 pm 
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Quote:
John McDonnell warns over 'alarming increase' in UK household debt

Labour analysis finds unsecured borrowing could exceed £19,000 per household by end of parliament
(Guardian)


Purely anecdotal, but I noticed today that, for instance, the butter that I usually buy has gone up by 35p per pack since about the beginning of November (2017).

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/dec/27/uk-household-debt-john-mcdonnell-warns-alarming-increase


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 6:28 pm 
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Well said, Citizen.

Aimed at a diminishing base, I hope.

Actual scientists seem more worried about Brexit than whether they'll get to hear Brendan O'Neill speak on campus.


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 6:37 pm 
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citizenJA wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Jo Johnson's about to fall flat on his arse with this "universities free speech" stuff.

There's a new regulator coming in January, the Office for Students. Even if it really were "universities" banning "controversial speakers", rather than student unions, I don't think they or anyone else would much fancy arbitrating on who can and can't speak. And of course, it immediately comes up against the government's Prevent duties. Are universities supposed to host people then report everybody who attends their speeches?

Did they not piss away enough "citizens of nowhere" votes last time? I know this is grandstanding to a base, but even those like their kids/grandkids to go to university.
Yeah, government isn't providing leadership, is it. Just a series of propaganda ads not making sense set alongside their own policies.


Wouldn't be surprised if they're being pushed into this by the crowd at Spiked. All it needs is one widely reported speech by an Islamic preacher promoting IS and they'll back away from this new-found enthusiasm for free speech no matter what pretty sharpish.

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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 6:53 pm 
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Or maybe Labour haven't got it right, after all? (Ref the article, linked earlier, on the LibDems)

Quote:
Labour voters could abandon party over Brexit stance, poll finds

Party urged to clarify policy as poll finds more than half of Labour voters oppose leadership backing Brexit (Guardian)


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/27/labour-voters-could-abandon-party-over-brexit-stance-poll-finds


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 7:01 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
Or maybe Labour haven't got it right, after all? (Ref the article, linked earlier, on the LibDems)

Quote:
Labour voters could abandon party over Brexit stance, poll finds

Party urged to clarify policy as poll finds more than half of Labour voters oppose leadership backing Brexit (Guardian)


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/27/labour-voters-could-abandon-party-over-brexit-stance-poll-finds



Good evening

I see nothing too worrying in that poll and there is a lot of extrapolation in the article.......it is just one of many articles being used to promote a specific policy area

The Remain side are not immune from using propaganda and their friends in the press in the same way the Leavers are

We are talking about so many hypotheticals here it is essentially pretty meaningless - there is no election on the horizon is there, or have I missed something? I think we should have realised that polling is not always that accurate - as that poll suggesting >65% Remain was jumped on by some people without looking at the data in it....or challenging if it was an outlier

I am happy with how Labour are doing things at the moment and will not take lessons from people who have consistently called things wrong over the last few years


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 7:10 pm 
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Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Apologies to Paul, I know you don't like the word Lexiter. But I can't think of a better one. Accept my inverted commas as a sign I'm acknowledging your concerns, if you will.

Sure. I don't have a problem as such with hypothetical Lexiters. It's when it's a label for an individual that I find it more difficult. Unless it's Kate Hoey of course :twisted:


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 7:16 pm 
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Quote:
@AndyMcDonaldMP
6h6 hours ago
The private companies running the East Coast Line have failed and the taxpayer will have to pick up a bill of up to £2 billion.


That's utter rubbish, I'm afraid.


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 7:20 pm 
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https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-must ... xit-trade/
"EU must name its price for post-Brexit trade"
Quote:
....According to this charge, May is a leader unable to make a decision, running a government refusing to face up to the realities of Brexit.
Yet to the most senior U.K. officials, this is little more than Brussels spin. From the U.K. government’s perspective, Britain’s position could not be much clearer. It wants a giant free-trade deal covering as many sectors of the economy as possible.


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 7:32 pm 
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howsillyofme1 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
Or maybe Labour haven't got it right, after all? (Ref the article, linked earlier, on the LibDems)

Quote:
Labour voters could abandon party over Brexit stance, poll finds

Party urged to clarify policy as poll finds more than half of Labour voters oppose leadership backing Brexit (Guardian)


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/27/labour-voters-could-abandon-party-over-brexit-stance-poll-finds



Good evening

I see nothing too worrying in that poll and there is a lot of extrapolation in the article.......it is just one of many articles being used to promote a specific policy area

The Remain side are not immune from using propaganda and their friends in the press in the same way the Leavers are

We are talking about so many hypotheticals here it is essentially pretty meaningless - there is no election on the horizon is there, or have I missed something? I think we should have realised that polling is not always that accurate - as that poll suggesting >65% Remain was jumped on by some people without looking at the data in it....or challenging if it was an outlier

I am happy with how Labour are doing things at the moment and will not take lessons from people who have consistently called things wrong over the last few years


Good evening.

I agree with you about this article.

I'd very much like it to be that there were a big bunch of Remainers-Soft Brexiters who could use their electoral muscle maybe in the London borough elections. Labour could be sent a "message" in those without being deprived of a single council. There's nobody else to vote for.

Corbyn might pull through, but I'd like to give him a nudge.


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 7:36 pm 
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Tubby

I don't mind him being given a nudge and it is is absolutely clear Labour will need to take a position at some point

I am, though, happy to leave it to Starmer to take the lead on what needs to be done (with the leadership) and am happy to ignore the remarks of 60 random councillors (out of how many thousand) and also the silly games people like Chris Leslie are playing with their amendments

There is no value gained from these types of articles - which seem to be a monthly occurrence in the Grauniad/Observer interspersed with bile from Cohen


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 7:37 pm 
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RogerOThornhill wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Jo Johnson's about to fall flat on his arse with this "universities free speech" stuff.

There's a new regulator coming in January, the Office for Students. Even if it really were "universities" banning "controversial speakers", rather than student unions, I don't think they or anyone else would much fancy arbitrating on who can and can't speak. And of course, it immediately comes up against the government's Prevent duties. Are universities supposed to host people then report everybody who attends their speeches?

Did they not piss away enough "citizens of nowhere" votes last time? I know this is grandstanding to a base, but even those like their kids/grandkids to go to university.
Yeah, government isn't providing leadership, is it. Just a series of propaganda ads not making sense set alongside their own policies.


Wouldn't be surprised if they're being pushed into this by the crowd at Spiked. All it needs is one widely reported speech by an Islamic preacher promoting IS and they'll back away from this new-found enthusiasm for free speech no matter what pretty sharpish.


Spiked-types aren't happy anyway. I've posted this bizarre Brendan O'Neill fan FBUer before. He thinks the problems is the government aren't credible because they're PC multiculturalists.

Quote:
Paul Embery‏
@PaulEmbery
Follow Follow @PaulEmbery
More
A government culpable as any other for fostering an atmosphere of censorship suddenly gets shirty about 'no-platforming' and 'safe spaces'. I don't believe them.


I mean, does he really think the FBU should be forced to host everyone the government says?

I think it's all of a piece with May's "populist" stuff. Universities are bad, like human rights lawyers. Hopefully the base for it is shrinking.


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 7:37 pm 
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Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Quote:
@AndyMcDonaldMP
6h6 hours ago
The private companies running the East Coast Line have failed and the taxpayer will have to pick up a bill of up to £2 billion.


That's utter rubbish, I'm afraid.


Tubby -- thanks for your 5.59pm link explaining why !


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 7:40 pm 
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howsillyofme1 wrote:
Tubby

I don't mind him being given a nudge and it is is absolutely clear Labour will need to take a position at some point

I am, though, happy to leave it to Starmer to take the lead on what needs to be done (with the leadership) and am happy to ignore the remarks of 60 random councillors (out of how many thousand) and also the silly games people like Chris Leslie are playing with their amendments

There is no value gained from these types of articles - which seem to be a monthly occurrence in the Grauniad/Observer interspersed with bile from Cohen


I think I'd be unhappy if there weren't people saying this sort of stuff. I think the more pressure for it, the better. I am thinking of Starmer too, not just Corbyn- I don't think Corbyn's got some cunning "Lexiter" hold on policy.


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 7:44 pm 
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frog222 wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Quote:
@AndyMcDonaldMP
6h6 hours ago
The private companies running the East Coast Line have failed and the taxpayer will have to pick up a bill of up to £2 billion.


That's utter rubbish, I'm afraid.


Tubby -- thanks for your 5.59pm link explaining why !


Thank Roger Ford!

It's particularly disappointing that Ford says he explained it all to McDonald (who he otherwise seems to have liked) and it was ignored.

There's no need to overegg the pudding here. Just say that the franchise system's broken and Labour will end it. It's certainly complicated and unwieldy, even supporters would agree with that.


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 7:47 pm 
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Tubby Isaacs wrote:
---
Spiked-types aren't happy anyway. I've posted this bizarre Brendan O'Neill fan FBUer before. He thinks the problems is the government aren't credible because they're PC multiculturalists.
Quote:
Paul Embery‏
@PaulEmbery
Follow Follow @PaulEmbery
More
A government culpable as any other for fostering an atmosphere of censorship suddenly gets shirty about 'no-platforming' and 'safe spaces'. I don't believe them.

I mean, does he really think the FBU should be forced to host everyone the government says?

I think it's all of a piece with May's "populist" stuff. Universities are bad, like human rights lawyers. Hopefully the base for it is shrinking.
(cJA edit)
When does irrational, emotive manipulation work and when does it get escorted out the door by sane people? That's a genuine question. I know some history. I don't know where we're at right now.


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 7:52 pm 
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Tubby Isaacs wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
refitman wrote:



I agree with Adonis

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... gin-trains

Chris Grayling is a complete moron. Who knew? A disgrace.

That isn't the way the franchising system is supposed to work. I don't think nationalising will do any good at all, but the government should have held Stagecoach to their bargain, which was a good deal for the rest of us.


See Roger Ford of Modern Railways quoted here. The latter stages of the contract can't be delivered because of stuff Network Rail and the DfT won't be able to deliver.

http://zelo-street.blogspot.co.uk/2017/ ... wasnt.html

He thinks that even under the revised contract, Stagecoach have taken a hit to "stay in the game" to be able to bid on more franchises. The likelihood of far more franchises being available in the EU after 2023 (the "Lexiters" are right about that happening, I think) means it's very important to keep operating.



Thanks. All a bit more nuanced then, as these stories usually are. "Grayling is an idiot" was to be fair to me the obvious answer


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 7:53 pm 
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Tubby Isaacs wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
Tubby

I don't mind him being given a nudge and it is is absolutely clear Labour will need to take a position at some point

I am, though, happy to leave it to Starmer to take the lead on what needs to be done (with the leadership) and am happy to ignore the remarks of 60 random councillors (out of how many thousand) and also the silly games people like Chris Leslie are playing with their amendments

There is no value gained from these types of articles - which seem to be a monthly occurrence in the Grauniad/Observer interspersed with bile from Cohen


I think I'd be unhappy if there weren't people saying this sort of stuff. I think the more pressure for it, the better. I am thinking of Starmer too, not just Corbyn- I don't think Corbyn's got some cunning "Lexiter" hold on policy.



It depends who........pardon me if I suspect this has more to do with the right of the Labour Party using this to try to undermine the leadership.....again!

It is okay saying things and putting forward a justified political position (that is not totally at odds against Starmer's either) but there is a tendency for these votes to be followed by 'senior Labour politicians' running to the press and having a moan


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 7:56 pm 
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Grayling is an idiot, but the DfT is too technocratic for him or Spads to impress themselves too much on the nitty gritty. They can always produce crass speeches and gifts to their opponents, of course, but they'd do more damage in other briefs. As indeed they already have.


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 7:58 pm 
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Anyone who describes Andrew Adonis as a 'leftwing politician' loses a lot of credibility in my eyes - what does that say about their political position.....


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 7:59 pm 
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howsillyofme1 wrote:

It depends who........pardon me if I suspect this has more to do with the right of the Labour Party using this to try to undermine the leadership.....again!

It is okay saying things and putting forward a justified political position (that is not totally at odds against Starmer's either) but there is a tendency for these votes to be followed by 'senior Labour politicians' running to the press and having a moan


There's certainly some of that, but it's a pretty benign channel for that "new awkward squad" stuff instead of moaning about "government debt". I know lots of them represent London or college towns, but they did very well in 2017. They're bringing something positive.


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 8:02 pm 
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Tubby Isaacs wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:

It depends who........pardon me if I suspect this has more to do with the right of the Labour Party using this to try to undermine the leadership.....again!

It is okay saying things and putting forward a justified political position (that is not totally at odds against Starmer's either) but there is a tendency for these votes to be followed by 'senior Labour politicians' running to the press and having a moan


There's certainly some of that, but it's a pretty benign channel for that "new awkward squad" stuff instead of moaning about "government debt". I know lots of them represent London or college towns, but they did very well in 2017. They're bringing something positive.



I don't see them bringing anything positive to be honest.......and the Labour increase in vote across the whole area of University towns and London/South suggests that the local Labour MP has a relatively limited effect on the big swings

Thos Labour MPs who earned their wages were the ones fighting in the Northern/Welsh Leave seats that really had battles on their hands

Even Kate Hoey increased her majority in Vauxhall - although by less than some, suggesting that the 'Brexit' position of individuals MPs was not the deciding factor if Brexit was driving all that vote growth


Last edited by howsillyofme1 on Wed 27 Dec, 2017 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 8:05 pm 
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howsillyofme1 wrote:
Anyone who describes Andrew Adonis as a 'leftwing politician' loses a lot of credibility in my eyes - what does that say about their political position.....


Adonis has tried to reinvent himself as that, bizarrely, or at least as a "straight talking populist". He irritated lots of academics with his attacks on universities and led the charge for heads to role among vice chancellors, and seems to think they should be paid less than the Archbishop of Canterbury. More recently, he's bullshitted about freight causing delays on rail and floated some rubbish about lorries saving energy by forming voluntary convoys on motorways.

Chaminda Jayanetti called it a midlife crisis.


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 8:10 pm 
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howsillyofme1 wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:

It depends who........pardon me if I suspect this has more to do with the right of the Labour Party using this to try to undermine the leadership.....again!

It is okay saying things and putting forward a justified political position (that is not totally at odds against Starmer's either) but there is a tendency for these votes to be followed by 'senior Labour politicians' running to the press and having a moan


There's certainly some of that, but it's a pretty benign channel for that "new awkward squad" stuff instead of moaning about "government debt". I know lots of them represent London or college towns, but they did very well in 2017. They're bringing something positive.



I don't see them bringing anything positive to be honest.......and the Labour increase in vote across the whole area of University towns and London/South suggests that the local Labour MP has a relatively limited effect on the big swings

Thos Labour MPs who earned their wages were the ones fighting in the Northern/Welsh Leave seats that really had battles on their hands


Sure, it was easy to win Exeter or wherever What I meant was that I think the popularity of these "Remainer" MPs are another string to the Labour bow nationally. Even in Grimsby, there are people who strongly support Remain even now, and will want to see people putting their case within Labour.


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 8:14 pm 
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Tubby Isaacs wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
Tubby

I don't mind him being given a nudge and it is is absolutely clear Labour will need to take a position at some point

I am, though, happy to leave it to Starmer to take the lead on what needs to be done (with the leadership) and am happy to ignore the remarks of 60 random councillors (out of how many thousand) and also the silly games people like Chris Leslie are playing with their amendments

There is no value gained from these types of articles - which seem to be a monthly occurrence in the Grauniad/Observer interspersed with bile from Cohen


I think I'd be unhappy if there weren't people saying this sort of stuff. I think the more pressure for it, the better. I am thinking of Starmer too, not just Corbyn- I don't think Corbyn's got some cunning "Lexiter" hold on policy.



Corbyn and McDonnell decide. Starmer is an irrelevance.


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 8:39 pm 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
Tubby

I don't mind him being given a nudge and it is is absolutely clear Labour will need to take a position at some point

I am, though, happy to leave it to Starmer to take the lead on what needs to be done (with the leadership) and am happy to ignore the remarks of 60 random councillors (out of how many thousand) and also the silly games people like Chris Leslie are playing with their amendments

There is no value gained from these types of articles - which seem to be a monthly occurrence in the Grauniad/Observer interspersed with bile from Cohen


I think I'd be unhappy if there weren't people saying this sort of stuff. I think the more pressure for it, the better. I am thinking of Starmer too, not just Corbyn- I don't think Corbyn's got some cunning "Lexiter" hold on policy.



Corbyn and McDonnell decide. Starmer is an irrelevance.

Any evidence to support that perchance?


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 8:43 pm 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
Tubby

I don't mind him being given a nudge and it is is absolutely clear Labour will need to take a position at some point

I am, though, happy to leave it to Starmer to take the lead on what needs to be done (with the leadership) and am happy to ignore the remarks of 60 random councillors (out of how many thousand) and also the silly games people like Chris Leslie are playing with their amendments

There is no value gained from these types of articles - which seem to be a monthly occurrence in the Grauniad/Observer interspersed with bile from Cohen


I think I'd be unhappy if there weren't people saying this sort of stuff. I think the more pressure for it, the better. I am thinking of Starmer too, not just Corbyn- I don't think Corbyn's got some cunning "Lexiter" hold on policy.



Corbyn and McDonnell decide. Starmer is an irrelevance.



Pompous arse!


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 8:45 pm 
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No platform's been properly disastrous, be fair.

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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 9:07 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:

Any evidence to support that perchance?


Or even an "in my opinion" would help.


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 9:11 pm 
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It’s not just about the pay – it’s about flexible working and the profession’s job satisfaction

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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 9:29 pm 
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tinybgoat wrote:
https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-must-name-its-price-for-post-brexit-trade/
"EU must name its price for post-Brexit trade"
Quote:
....According to this charge, May is a leader unable to make a decision, running a government refusing to face up to the realities of Brexit.
Yet to the most senior U.K. officials, this is little more than Brussels spin. From the U.K. government’s perspective, Britain’s position could not be much clearer. It wants a giant free-trade deal covering as many sectors of the economy as possible.

Quote:
Such a deal offers the U.K. the have-your-cake-and-eat-it possibility of free access to European markets combined with the future freedom to set its own rules and regulations. Other sectors of the economy currently covered by the single market will simply not be included in the free-trade deal, allowing Britain to diverge as much as it wants from the EU standard.

I have the impression that the govt still hasn't heard a word the EU27 have said, 18 months after the referendum and 9 months into the A50 period.

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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 9:34 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:

Any evidence to support that perchance?


Or even an "in my opinion" would help.


That would be the obvious fact that Corbyn and McDonnell set all Labour policy including this.

They have some constraints, but Corbyn's promises for party democracy now look really funny. The big problem is Brexit, where he is out of step with the membership.

As for Starmer, he is just a patsy. Of no significance.


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 9:37 pm 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:

Any evidence to support that perchance?


Or even an "in my opinion" would help.


That would be the obvious fact that Corbyn and McDonnell set all Labour policy including this.

They have some constraints, but Corbyn's promises for party democracy now look really funny. The big problem is Brexit, where he is out of step with the membership.

As for Starmer, he is just a patsy. Of no significance.


as per my comment earlier


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 9:49 pm 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:

Any evidence to support that perchance?


Or even an "in my opinion" would help.


That would be the obvious fact that Corbyn and McDonnell set all Labour policy including this.

They have some constraints, but Corbyn's promises for party democracy now look really funny. The big problem is Brexit, where he is out of step with the membership.

As for Starmer, he is just a patsy. Of no significance.

It's just "obvious" dahling ;-)


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 9:52 pm 
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Theresa May urged to withdraw Tory whip from Michael Heseltine
Norman Tebbit leads calls to ban former colleague over comments that a Corbyn government could be preferable to Brexit
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... t-comments
Quote:
The Bow Group, a rightwing Conservative pressure group whose patrons include Norman Lamont and John Redwood, said: “Heseltine has made clear it is his aim to prevent Brexit at all costs, including the sabotage of his own party and nation, the Conservative party must therefore withdraw the whip and end the inevitable continuation of his sniping from inside the tent.”

Tebbit, a former Conservative cabinet minister, said the Bow Group was “absolutely right to make this call”.

This actually made me laugh, but it probably shouldn't. Tebbit, Redwood making the papers, if it wasn't for brexit they'd be ignored. Dinosaurs.

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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 10:11 pm 
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Nick Reeves - #FBPE‏
@nickreeves9876

Surprise, surprise! Who would have thought it!
EU moves ahead of Britain on opening trade talks with Australia and New Zealand. UK faces delay of at least a year before it can open its own talks http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... ign=buffer
#StopBrexit #FBPE #Brexit

https://twitter.com/nickreeves9876/stat ... 6886250499


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 10:13 pm 
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Britain Elects‏
@britainelects

% of Labour voters who'd be "delighted or pleased" if the Labour Party said it would...

Stop Brexit: 63%
Proceed with Brexit: 22%

via @YouGov, 17 - 19 Dec

https://twitter.com/britainelects/statu ... 0529624064


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 10:15 pm 
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gilsey wrote:
tinybgoat wrote:
https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-must-name-its-price-for-post-brexit-trade/
"EU must name its price for post-Brexit trade"
Quote:
....According to this charge, May is a leader unable to make a decision, running a government refusing to face up to the realities of Brexit.
Yet to the most senior U.K. officials, this is little more than Brussels spin. From the U.K. government’s perspective, Britain’s position could not be much clearer. It wants a giant free-trade deal covering as many sectors of the economy as possible.

Quote:
Such a deal offers the U.K. the have-your-cake-and-eat-it possibility of free access to European markets combined with the future freedom to set its own rules and regulations. Other sectors of the economy currently covered by the single market will simply not be included in the free-trade deal, allowing Britain to diverge as much as it wants from the EU standard.

I have the impression that the govt still hasn't heard a word the EU27 have said, 18 months after the referendum and 9 months into the A50 period.


It's surreal, like reasoning with toddlers - if toddlers were able to stipulate that they only eat in a vegan, teetotal restaurant, then once seated insist on veal escalopes & the finest wine available.


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 10:17 pm 
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AngryAsWell wrote:
Britain Elects‏
@britainelects

% of Labour voters who'd be "delighted or pleased" if the Labour Party said it would...

Stop Brexit: 63%
Proceed with Brexit: 22%

via @YouGov, 17 - 19 Dec

https://twitter.com/britainelects/statu ... 0529624064



'Stop Brexit' - easier said than done

That bloody referendum......


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 10:32 pm 
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I've just been catching up with #IntellectualPanto.
Recommended. :D

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PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec, 2017 10:34 pm 
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gilsey wrote:
I've just been catching up with #IntellectualPanto.
Recommended. :D

Studies show that 99% of correspondents express a preference to the contrary. #OhNoItIsn't


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