Saturday 23rd to Wednesday 27th December 2017

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 24 Dec, 2017 7:01 pm

citizenJA wrote:We're united in our condemnation of DisharmonyCreator

Bumboils, I missed it! I thought the usual Christmas blockbuster-style films were all on TV tomorrow. Still, if it was as bad as all that . . .

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sun 24 Dec, 2017 7:25 pm

http://www.private-eye.co.uk/pictures/c ... 60_big.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Sun 24 Dec, 2017 7:25 pm

citizenJA wrote:The left are doing okay in the UK. It's tough, always has been tough being left-wing.

Right-wingers...Dave Cameron, George Osborne, Theresa May, Jeremy Hunt, George Smith, Green, Gove, Johnson, Patel...the list goes on...Tory repeat failures all. Media gloss over their repeatedly failing most people and country. Media is expensive, owned by a few depending on them.

A few holding a lot of resources inherited or pilfered want to do what they like, to whomever they like, unaccountable and unrecognised as criminals.

Society can provide everyone with a fine education and meaningful employment, safe, secure housing and excellent healthcare. These tangibles are created through collective effort and that prosperity belongs to us all. There's no shame being left-wing, working for the benefit of everyone instead of just a few.

The left haven't won an election since 2005, and won't be until 2022 at the earliest.

Rather making my point about what the left thinks success looks like.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Sun 24 Dec, 2017 7:30 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Wilson is quite well regarded now it seems?

Actually IMO with him the opposite is true to some extent - quite a few of the "modernising" school saw him as partly responsible for Labour's 1980s wilderness years.

Kinnock's years as leader are still appreciated by some of us. What he did subsequently didn't sit well with everybody (maybe a smaller version of the widespread reaction against Blair's post-PM activities) though I don't personally hold it against him. And yes, it has to be said that his son is totally f***ing dreadful

As for Tories only venerating winners, what was maybe THE most divisive event for them in our lifetimes - one that still has an effect today? I refer, of course, to them knifing Thatcher because she MIGHT have lost an election. Indeed, in my opinion and many others she very likely *would* have lost in 1992 and thus made "loser" Kinnock our PM. But would the large majority of Tories have thought anything less of her if she had? I seriously doubt it.

As so often, these things aren't quite as black and white as you paint them.......

Wilson??!!!?? How many self confessed followers of Wilson are there?

Wilson is only ever used by those on the left who want to bash Blair. "Wilson may have been shit but he gave us the OU when Blair did nothing." etc.

Noble defeat is the best outcome for a leader, so as to be untainted by the horrible compromises power requires.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 24 Dec, 2017 8:04 pm

Yes - I know it's not snowing but . . .

[youtube]7GUzJ7fQBtg[/youtube]

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 24 Dec, 2017 8:15 pm

Oh - and frightful_oik, if you're tuned in

Happy Birthday!

Edited - bold!

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 24 Dec, 2017 8:58 pm

Goodnight, everyone
love,
cJA

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 24 Dec, 2017 9:12 pm

Happy Christmas everyone, best wishes to you and yours. xx

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sun 24 Dec, 2017 9:21 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:I suggest we ignore Hugo, for a couple of days anyway.

He takes a rather strange pleasure in creating disharmony and then disappearing for a while

I agree.

Though I have enjoyed the good natured discussion that ensued

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sun 24 Dec, 2017 9:27 pm

I did reflect that while I am utterly unsentimental about Hilary Clinton (while respecting her many achievements), I am probably overly sentimental about Obama, who was in every sense a winner.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sun 24 Dec, 2017 9:40 pm

Some people are more likeable than others for a number of reasons - Clinton never was as she cam across as cold and calculating whereas Obama always came across as affable and warm

Thatcher was never likeable but people like Major (for being so unassuming) and Kenneth Clarke could be. Some people even like Cameron, although I find him appalling

It is based on perception and sometimes reality is different - but most of what we base things on seems to be based on perception - how do we really know what someone is like unless we have spent quite a lot of time with them?

I am as guilty of it as anyone - we just have to know we do it and be prepared to change once we have more information

MsChin · Post by **MsChin** » Sun 24 Dec, 2017 10:15 pm

Merry Christmas to you all.

As for digging over the Labour party’s past history, it’s the future that counts and those who wish for change can be part of that future.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 24 Dec, 2017 10:45 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 19266.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tories drop two flagship housing policies from key strategy document

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 24 Dec, 2017 10:48 pm

Landlords ‘unwilling’ to rent to universal credit recipients

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sun 24 Dec, 2017 10:56 pm

Happy Christmas every one both old friends and new, those who have gone, & those yet to appear/re-appear.

May 2018 bring about the end of brexit and the return of sanity.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 24 Dec, 2017 10:57 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42474282" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sun 24 Dec, 2017 10:57 pm

MsChin wrote:Merry Christmas to you all.

As for digging over the Labour party’s past history, it’s the future that counts and those who wish for change can be part of that future.

~~~Waves~~~ at MsChin

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Sun 24 Dec, 2017 11:06 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Happy Christmas every one both old friends and new, those who have gone, & those yet to appear/re-appear.

May 2018 bring about the end of brexit and the return of sanity.

And may the end of brexit bring about the end of the Tories (or at least this government).

Happy Christmas and a peaceful new year to all.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Sun 24 Dec, 2017 11:26 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Donald Trump-owned Scottish golf resort loses tax break

Change in Scottish government budget will remove Trump Turnberry in South Ayrshire from business rates relief scheme (Guardian)
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... -tax-break

The Herald is spinning this as a direct penalty aimed at Trump - but it's worth bearing in mind that other businesses will be removed from the relief scheme (Gleneagles Hotel and Crieff Hydro have been mentioned) and Trump's controversial Menie course retains its relief.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 25 Dec, 2017 12:21 am

So the day has arrived.

Best wishes to all

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 25 Dec, 2017 8:57 am

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/t ... s-11747099" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thousands claiming ESA disability benefits could miss out on years of backdated payments due to DWP error

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 25 Dec, 2017 9:05 am

More pertinent I suggest is what the current Government deems a" success"

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 25 Dec, 2017 9:30 am

https://www.theguardian.com/global-deve ... -know-quiz" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The world in 2017: how much do you know?

Post by **refitman** » Mon 25 Dec, 2017 9:36 am

Merry Christmas everyone!

discordantharmony · Post by **discordantharmony** » Mon 25 Dec, 2017 9:47 am

Morning one and all,

Merry Chrimble everyone.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Mon 25 Dec, 2017 10:01 am

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/global-deve ... -know-quiz

The world in 2017: how much do you know?

Oh dear, 4/11
(And Merry Xmas, all)

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Mon 25 Dec, 2017 10:25 am

Lord Buckethead, who ran against Theresa May in the General Election, releases joyful Christmas song
There's a link in the article to a video of song, would advise against listening or watching, but as it is for charity, maybe click and run?

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 25 Dec, 2017 10:44 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I did reflect that while I am utterly unsentimental about Hilary Clinton (while respecting her many achievements), I am probably overly sentimental about Obama, who was in every sense a winner.

In the US the sentimentality is all focused on Bernie S. "If only".

Trump would have beaten him heavily IMO.

Obama is to the right of me. He is a small l liberal.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 25 Dec, 2017 11:49 am

SpinningHugo wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I did reflect that while I am utterly unsentimental about Hilary Clinton (while respecting her many achievements), I am probably overly sentimental about Obama, who was in every sense a winner.
In the US the sentimentality is all focused on Bernie S. "If only".

Trump would have beaten him heavily IMO.

Obama is to the right of me. He is a small l liberal.

Not what the polls - consistently - said.

In *some* respects, BHO was maybe the most left-liberal POTUS since Carter.

That your statement is also at least arguably true merely shows how skewed to the right the US political spectrum is overall.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 25 Dec, 2017 11:59 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I did reflect that while I am utterly unsentimental about Hilary Clinton (while respecting her many achievements), I am probably overly sentimental about Obama, who was in every sense a winner.
In the US the sentimentality is all focused on Bernie S. "If only".

Trump would have beaten him heavily IMO.

Obama is to the right of me. He is a small l liberal.
Not what the polls - consistently - said.

In *some* respects, BHO was maybe the most left-liberal POTUS since Carter.

That your statement is also at least arguably true merely shows how skewed to the right the US political spectrum is overall.

The polls also said HC would win comfortably. Can you point me at analysis supporting your claim? Plenty saying the opposite. It couldn't, again, be the kind of thing you'd like to be true?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... p-election" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As there was only one other Democratic President between Carter and Obama (and whether he was more right is a tight call) not exactly a bold proposition.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 25 Dec, 2017 12:58 pm

tinybgoat wrote:
HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/global-deve ... -know-quiz

The world in 2017: how much do you know?
Oh dear, 4/11
(And Merry Xmas, all)

11/11 - how sad am I ? Must find a hobby this coming year....

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Mon 25 Dec, 2017 1:39 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
tinybgoat wrote:
HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/global-deve ... -know-quiz

The world in 2017: how much do you know?
Oh dear, 4/11
(And Merry Xmas, all)
11/11 - how sad am I ? Must find a hobby this coming year....

A hobby, you mean there's something you haven't already mastered ?

edit: aargh! that was a haven't , not a have!
Sorry if any offence caused.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 25 Dec, 2017 2:49 pm

MsChin wrote:Merry Christmas to you all.

As for digging over the Labour party’s past history, it’s the future that counts and those who wish for change can be part of that future.

Well said

Good-afternoon, everyone

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 25 Dec, 2017 2:50 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Happy Christmas every one both old friends and new, those who have gone, & those yet to appear/re-appear.

May 2018 bring about the end of brexit and the return of sanity.

I like this post a lot, thank you

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 25 Dec, 2017 2:57 pm

Merry Christmas, everyone

JustMom · Post by **JustMom** » Mon 25 Dec, 2017 3:55 pm

Happy xmas everyone.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 25 Dec, 2017 4:50 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... data-shows" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 25 Dec, 2017 6:31 pm

The world in 2017: how much do you know?[/quote]
Oh dear, 4/11
(And Merry Xmas, all)[/quote]

11/11 - how sad am I ? Must find a hobby this coming year....[/quote]
A hobby, you mean there's something you haven't already mastered ?

edit: aargh! that was a haven't , not a have!
Sorry if any offence caused.[/quote]

lol - no offence taken

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Mon 25 Dec, 2017 8:56 pm

https://www.newstatesman.com/culture/bo ... ical-story" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"The Good Samaritan: how politics transformed the meaning of a biblical story"
-Book review by Rowan Williams

Alongside all this, the Samaritan has been invoked as the patron saint of private rather than public welfare provision; and – unforgettably – by Margaret Thatcher addressing the Church of Scotland on the importance of the wealth creation that enabled the Samaritan to have resources to help the less fortunate.

Interesting, (but probably unlikely to buy book.)

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 25 Dec, 2017 9:03 pm

In a broadly similar vein -

All I want for Christmas is a film that doesn’t preach capitalism

Tanya Gold (Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... z-die-hard

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 25 Dec, 2017 9:48 pm

Fracking to begin in earnest in 2018 after tough year for industry

Firms leading UK push for shale gas say ‘we will see results next year’ after 12 months of opposition, protests and a ban in Scotland (Guardian)

I do hope that's wishful thinking on the part of the fracking firms. The article implies that it may well be.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... y-protests

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 25 Dec, 2017 10:12 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... lot-scheme" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Scotland united in curiosity as councils trial universal basic income

My New Years Resolution to rail against this nonsense with continued vigour.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 25 Dec, 2017 10:23 pm

The intention is to replace the welfare safety net with a platform

Yes - that sounds very worrying.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 25 Dec, 2017 10:49 pm

UC will pale into insignificance,a footnote in comparison if this ever is attempted.The "similarities" of what is claimed for it,the cherry picked examples etc are frightening.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 25 Dec, 2017 11:16 pm

(Bah humbug)

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Tue 26 Dec, 2017 12:09 am

"Stop sneering at blue passports"

It's not the passports we're sneering at.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
in thread from @utterlybgroovy

Also, they weren't that colour blue being, as they were, near as dammit black! Could make this up! Can't even make our nice Iconic Blue Passports the same colour! What hope have we got with actual negotiations if they can't even colour match a bloody passport!

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 26 Dec, 2017 12:11 am

Pass the humbugs . . .

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 26 Dec, 2017 12:58 am

Asylum offices 'in a constant state of crisis', say whistleblowers

Two whistleblowers claim Home Office departments delay asylum applications for profit
(Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... ome-office

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Tue 26 Dec, 2017 3:33 am

https://www.politico.eu/article/how-bre ... as-dinner/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"How Brexit ruined Christmas dinner"
More accurately, how Brexit will ruin future Christmas Dinners, unless the intention was to ruin this (or seeing as it's now Boxing day, last) Christmas's dinner due to arguments fuelled by the article.
Personally I could cope without Turkey or Pigs in Blankets.
edit: to add, luckily Brussel Sprouts are apparently Brexit proof, bit concerned about Bailey's though.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Tue 26 Dec, 2017 7:57 am

PorFavor wrote:
Asylum offices 'in a constant state of crisis', say whistleblowers

Two whistleblowers claim Home Office departments delay asylum applications for profit
(Guardian)
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... ome-office

"" The second whistleblower comes from inside the Family and Human Rights Unit (FHRU), a department inside the UKVI which focuses on visas for spouses and parents of British and EU nationals. They describe a similar state of constant crisis: “We currently have staff who are trained for one week before doing live cases. There is a high turnover (in the unit), staff are leaving and coming every week,” they said.""

Largely thank to Austerity Osborne and the other simple-minded Maniacs for Small Government who have kidnapped the One-Nation Tories.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-34790102" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yet another open goal for an Opposition, but how to get the case out to the electorate that you cannot have anything approaching good government for free ?