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PostPosted: Sat 30 Dec, 2017 8:09 pm 
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@RogerOThornhill

So glad to read your good news, very happy for you and Mrs Roger :) xx


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PostPosted: Sat 30 Dec, 2017 8:18 pm 
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Final result. Unscientific of course but notable for how remainers constantly retweeted to help the result they wanted especially those with #FPBE. They succeeded in "getting the vote out"...well done...will now do a conventional poll for comparison...

https://twitter.com/LordAshcroft/status ... 4635053056

180K votes


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PostPosted: Sat 30 Dec, 2017 8:29 pm 
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https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/ ... avel-costs


Season ticket sales slide as passengers rebel against cost of rail travel
Latest figures suggest fed-up commuters are abandoning the train as fares are set to rise again


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PostPosted: Sat 30 Dec, 2017 8:41 pm 
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testing

Hmmm ! I was getting SQL ERROR on a post, plus a post to admin !

France is a Commie State according to some local nutters and others in the US

I’ve never seen hospital parking charges in a 100km radius of home that goes as far as the Caen agglomeration of 300 odd thousand . That’s excluding the Channel Isles of course !

I don’t know if they exist elsewhere in France.

There are extensive taxi services for patients who are too ill , or have a letter frrom their doc, and the possibility of reimbursing expenses for those who could have a taxi but arrange with family or a friend. That saves €€ for the state.

On the cost of medicines — there is quite a loong list of “Affections Longues Durées” , for example cancers, dialysis, stroke (my case) , where ALL ** is free, surgery, rehab, physio, drugs, for as long as the condition lasts.

**ALL — except the TV in the single or double room, and a small contribution in some places for the wifi which then goes to finance some social stuff

Sorted ! A smiley to another place was rejected in my re-post here .


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PostPosted: Sat 30 Dec, 2017 8:52 pm 
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quote="HindleA"]https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/dec/30/rail-season-tickets-sales-slide-passengers-shun-rising-travel-costs


Season ticket sales slide as passengers rebel against cost of rail travel
Latest figures suggest fed-up commuters are abandoning the train as fares are set to rise again[/quote]

I have a friend who uses a Uber-type service for the 300km to Paris, and so does her 75yo Ma coming the other way !

Many cars only have the driver in them, quite crazy !


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PostPosted: Sat 30 Dec, 2017 9:00 pm 
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Quote:
A fraction of Persimmon boss’s £110m bonus could house all homeless of York

Top executives of property developer that benefited from help-to-buy scheme face calls to donate part of their ‘obscene’ bonuses to charities (Guardian)


https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/dec/30/a-fraction-of-persimmon-bosss-110m-bonus-could-house-all-homeless-of-york


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PostPosted: Sat 30 Dec, 2017 9:29 pm 
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Just a weird view to me,no matter how rich I was I would never get a car.The having of it or not doesn't signify anything beyond having one or not.


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PostPosted: Sat 30 Dec, 2017 9:35 pm 
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refitman wrote:
You're the same with trains. Pump up the prices, only the middle class use them and they can afford to pay through the nose. The poor can just not travel, 'cause they don't need to go anywhere.



Of course not only the middle class use these goods.

But disproportionately they do.

So subsidies like this are regressive.

Which is why left wing governments (Labour 1997-2010, may it rest in peace) opposed these popular but rightwing policies.

Help the poorest by giving them more money.

Don't help the middle classes by these distorting regressive policies. Free hospital parking is daft, which is why the Labour government I voted for opposed it.

New Labour was right. But sadly those evidence driven days are over and populists of left and right are now in charge, pandering to those driven by instinct.


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PostPosted: Sat 30 Dec, 2017 9:42 pm 
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@RogerOThornhill
Wonderful news!
Much love to your family


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PostPosted: Sat 30 Dec, 2017 9:52 pm 
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Meanwhile the obvious working class guy millionaire from Stoke because he plays a pub game,,through to the World Final.


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PostPosted: Sat 30 Dec, 2017 10:00 pm 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
refitman wrote:
You're the same with trains. Pump up the prices, only the middle class use them and they can afford to pay through the nose. The poor can just not travel, 'cause they don't need to go anywhere.



Of course not only the middle class use these goods.

But disproportionately they do.

So subsidies like this are regressive.

Which is why left wing governments (Labour 1997-2010, may it rest in peace) opposed these popular but rightwing policies.

Help the poorest by giving them more money.

Don't help the middle classes by these distorting regressive policies. Free hospital parking is daft, which is why the Labour government I voted for opposed it.

New Labour was right. But sadly those evidence driven days are over and populists of left and right are now in charge, pandering to those driven by instinct.


Having a reasonable charge for those who can afford it may seem reasonable, to those who CAN afford it. Problems arise when trying to work out just "who" can afford it, and then how to administer it fairly so that those who cannot afford it are not unduly penalised.
The Labour party I grew up with worked out that sticky problem with Universal Benefits. No admin cost, no he earns/she earns. Just support when a fellow citizen is going through hard time, financially or emotionally or health wise.
Personally I help by taking my elderly neighbour to her hospital appointments - thereby saving NHS cost of ambulance/taxi they would otherwise have to send for her. Costs me £4.50 parking, I don't tell her that though.
I call it - living in a civilised society.


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PostPosted: Sat 30 Dec, 2017 10:16 pm 
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Far from just income,availability,structural,circumstantial etc.They spent thousands on the local post office/chemist refurbishments as non wheelchair accessible as ever.


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PostPosted: Sat 30 Dec, 2017 10:17 pm 
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The thing you seen to ignore Hugo is that today's (so called) middle class are not in the same middle class as they were in the Blair years.
Everyone's living standards have slipped down a notch or at best stayed static, whilst daily living has become more expensive.
To have a car is no longer middle class. Where I live (1 bus every now and then, twice a day if lucky) you have to have a car or become isolated & unable to get to work. Far from enriching life it simply makes working so much more expensive & shrinks the disposable income you have left at the end of the month.
When you start adding additional charges (for being ill in this case) life just gets a little harder. Grinds people down.


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PostPosted: Sat 30 Dec, 2017 10:25 pm 
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As you outlined,you save the NHS monies specifically by using a car park;cost saving activity is cost saving activity.It doesn't matter if a Rolls or a clapped out banger.Admittedly I am not into to the class thing,having none.


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PostPosted: Sat 30 Dec, 2017 10:30 pm 
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Quote:
Lord Adonis calls on Grayling to quit and slams ‘broken’ Brexit government

Government bailout of Stagecoach-Virgin run East Coast line causes Labour peer to criticise ‘radical Brexiter subordinate to hard-right ideology’

Lord Adonis is calling for the resignation of transport secretary Chris Grayling for using hundreds of millions in taxpayers’ money to bail out private rail companies – a decision which the former government infrastructure tsar says is symptomatic of a government that has “broken down” under the strain of Brexit.

Adonis, who resigned as head of the government-backed National Infrastructure Commission on Friday, says in an interview with the Observer that the decision has landed taxpayers with a potential bill running into billions and will lead to higher fares and less investment in the network. (Guardian)


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/30/chris-grayling-must-quit-says-lord-adonis-east-coast-line-bailout


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PostPosted: Sat 30 Dec, 2017 10:31 pm 
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Neil Henderson
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51m51 minutes ago
More
INDEPENDENT: Nurses to attend 999 calls #tomorrowspaperstoday

https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/9 ... 2735161344


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PostPosted: Sat 30 Dec, 2017 10:46 pm 
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Here's a bit more on\from the Independent article -

Quote:
Nurses and GPs are to be sent to answer 999 calls ahead of ambulance crews in the latest evidence of the winter crisis engulfing the NHS, The Independent can reveal.

Health chiefs in the North East have told nurses and GPs they may have to act as “first responders” for patients who have fallen in their own homes or residential homes and may even need to administer painkillers, including intravenous morphine, if ambulances are delayed.

Bosses said the scheme was necessary because of a massive increase in demand and was intended to avert more “tragic” cases involving older patients with serious fractures and no pain relief. But senior doctors have said the move could affect patient safety.

Not all nurses are routinely trained to the levels that paramedics are, but even where nurses are trained experts have warned that morphine should only be administered where there are facilities for ‘continuous observation and respiratory support should it be required’. Because this is unlikely to be available at peoples’ homes, some say safer alternatives should be considered. (Independent)


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/nhs-winter-crisis-nurses-gp-999-calls-pensioners-broken-bones-drugs-morphine-fractures-a8134096.html


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PostPosted: Sat 30 Dec, 2017 10:59 pm 
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Andrew Adonis‏Verified account
@Andrew_Adonis

More Andrew Adonis Retweeted John Rentoul
John, my 2018 strategy is: persuade people that Brexit is wrong, precipitate a referendum on Mrs May’s ‘deal’ in a year’s time, forge a bold Attlee-style approach to tackling the social crisis within Britain, & keep us in the EU. I’m not contemplating national self-mutilation.

https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/statu ... 8206902272


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PostPosted: Sat 30 Dec, 2017 11:06 pm 
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AngryAsWell wrote:
Andrew Adonis‏Verified account
@Andrew_Adonis

More Andrew Adonis Retweeted John Rentoul
John, my 2018 strategy is: persuade people that Brexit is wrong, precipitate a referendum on Mrs May’s ‘deal’ in a year’s time, forge a bold Attlee-style approach to tackling the social crisis within Britain, & keep us in the EU. I’m not contemplating national self-mutilation.

https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/statu ... 8206902272


Interesting that, coming from him.


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PostPosted: Sat 30 Dec, 2017 11:26 pm 
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I think it was Tubby who posted this correction to the Adonis/Opposition stance on th ""rail bailout "" --

r/2017/12/virgin-east-coast-bailout-wasnt.html

http://zelo-street.blogspot.fr/2017/12/ ... wasnt.html


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PostPosted: Sat 30 Dec, 2017 11:28 pm 
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Night night.


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PostPosted: Sat 30 Dec, 2017 11:42 pm 
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AngryAsWell wrote:
The thing you seen to ignore Hugo is that today's (so called) middle class are not in the same middle class as they were in the Blair years.
Everyone's living standards have slipped down a notch or at best stayed static, whilst daily living has become more expensive.
To have a car is no longer middle class. Where I live (1 bus every now and then, twice a day if lucky) you have to have a car or become isolated & unable to get to work. Far from enriching life it simply makes working so much more expensive & shrinks the disposable income you have left at the end of the month.
When you start adding additional charges (for being ill in this case) life just gets a little harder. Grinds people down.
Yes, exactly.


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PostPosted: Sat 30 Dec, 2017 11:42 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
Night night.

Goodnight, PorFavor


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PostPosted: Sat 30 Dec, 2017 11:47 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
Andrew Adonis‏Verified account
@Andrew_Adonis

More Andrew Adonis Retweeted John Rentoul
John, my 2018 strategy is: persuade people that Brexit is wrong, precipitate a referendum on Mrs May’s ‘deal’ in a year’s time, forge a bold Attlee-style approach to tackling the social crisis within Britain, & keep us in the EU. I’m not contemplating national self-mutilation.

https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/statu ... 8206902272

Interesting that, coming from him.
I met Adonis sometime before the 2015 GE at a big Labour conference in Coventry, I think it was and liked him very much.


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PostPosted: Sat 30 Dec, 2017 11:51 pm 
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Am I middle class because of being around the World a couple of times
Or working class because of being a factory worker
Or middle class because of education level
Or poor because of no car
Or both because of using buses and trains
Or working because I find Mrs Browns Boys at times hilarious.
Or middle because of owning house outright
Or listening to Radio 4
Or upper for knowing Nigerian princes,travelling in limousines and having people lighting my cigars
Or lower because of being a homeless alcoholic

Etc.

Smash barriers,don't create them IMHO.


Last edited by HindleA on Sun 31 Dec, 2017 12:20 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat 30 Dec, 2017 11:51 pm 
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I wasn't raised in the UK. There's so much I don't understand.


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PostPosted: Sat 30 Dec, 2017 11:54 pm 
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It's wonderful knowing HindleA
goes to the heart of things and writes it plain


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PostPosted: Sat 30 Dec, 2017 11:55 pm 
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I'm going to sleep now, everyone
Please have a good night
love,
cJA


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PostPosted: Sat 30 Dec, 2017 11:58 pm 
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I was mainly,there is very little I understand.


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PostPosted: Sun 31 Dec, 2017 1:14 am 
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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ts-at-risk


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PostPosted: Sun 31 Dec, 2017 5:53 am 
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https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ationalism


Last edited by HindleA on Sun 31 Dec, 2017 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun 31 Dec, 2017 9:12 am 
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Good morfternoon.


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PostPosted: Sun 31 Dec, 2017 10:18 am 
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HindleA wrote:
Meanwhile the obvious working class guy millionaire from Stoke because he plays a pub game,,through to the World Final.

Did you see the other match though? Wow.

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PostPosted: Sun 31 Dec, 2017 10:42 am 
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"Followed"


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PostPosted: Sun 31 Dec, 2017 10:51 am 
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https://kittysjones.wordpress.com/2017/ ... g-history/


"The self-declared ‘most transparent government in history’ is editing history


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PostPosted: Sun 31 Dec, 2017 11:37 am 
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Good brexit summary here.

https://twitter.com/Sime0nStylites/stat ... 7413326848

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PostPosted: Sun 31 Dec, 2017 11:52 am 
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Quote:
Ministers consider using volunteers to guard UK borders

Home Office says it is discussing plan to bolster Border Force with scheme similar to police use of special constables (Guardian)


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/dec/31/ministers-consider-using-volunteers-to-guard-uk-borders


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PostPosted: Sun 31 Dec, 2017 11:59 am 
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frog222 wrote:
I think it was Tubby who posted this correction to the Adonis/Opposition stance on th ""rail bailout "" --

r/2017/12/virgin-east-coast-bailout-wasnt.html

http://zelo-street.blogspot.fr/2017/12/ ... wasnt.html


Yeah, cheers.

Adonis has reinvented himself as a "straight talking populist". Likely angling for a job with Corbyn. I hope Corbyn clocks it as insincerity.


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PostPosted: Sun 31 Dec, 2017 12:18 pm 
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Well, I think there is a good chance he will.

Though it may still be significant that Adonis has so rubbished the idea of a shiny new "centrist" party saving the day for us all. Especially since Phil Collins (no, not that one) made yet another attempt to breathe life into that corpse just the other day.


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PostPosted: Sun 31 Dec, 2017 12:51 pm 
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The old Adonis could have done a job for Corbyn at Transport, though I don't think he supports nationalization. But the new Adonis can go on LBC.


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PostPosted: Sun 31 Dec, 2017 1:39 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
Quote:
Ministers consider using volunteers to guard UK borders

Home Office says it is discussing plan to bolster Border Force with scheme similar to police use of special constables (Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/dec/31/ministers-consider-using-volunteers-to-guard-uk-borders
:lol: :wall: :shock: :o :wall: :lol: :lol: :wall: :lol:


Last edited by citizenJA on Sun 31 Dec, 2017 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun 31 Dec, 2017 1:40 pm 
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Good-afternoon, everyone


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PostPosted: Sun 31 Dec, 2017 1:40 pm 
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Eight big ideas for 2018 by Ed Miliband, Maggie Aderin-Pocock, Jay Rayner, Sophie Walker and more
From politics to culture, space science to food, our experts assess the major developments that will mark the year ahead

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... ience-food

Ed's good, Jay Rayner spot on.


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PostPosted: Sun 31 Dec, 2017 1:45 pm 
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I know I usually caution about rail articles in The Guardian, but there's an interesting point to this one.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/ ... avel-costs

Quote:
Figures slipped out by the Department for Transport before Christmas reveal a 9.4% drop in season ticket sales between July and September 2017 compared with the same quarter the previous year. There was a double-digit drop the previous quarter.

The Office of Rail and Road quarterly figures note that the number of journeys between July and September 2017 made using season tickets fell to its “lowest since 2010-11 Q2, with 15 million fewer journeys made compared to this time last year”.


Commuting is so London-heavy that you have to be a bit careful about inferring a national pattern from overall figures, but I think they might be on to something that season ticket prices may be reducing commuting. Whether that's good or bad, I leave up to you.

Comments BTL are as spectacularly bad, as ever.


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PostPosted: Sun 31 Dec, 2017 1:46 pm 
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Andrew Adonis‏Verified account
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Andrew Adonis Retweeted TimesHigherEducation
Which is partly why Labour will back Britain staying in Europe, when the crunch comes in a year’s time

https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/statu ... 3853186048


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PostPosted: Sun 31 Dec, 2017 1:47 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Well, I think there is a good chance he will.

Though it may still be significant that Adonis has so rubbished the idea of a shiny new "centrist" party saving the day for us all. Especially since Phil Collins (no, not that one) made yet another attempt to breathe life into that corpse just the other day.



LOL.
There is a reason Richard Burgon is shadow Lord Chancellor, and it isn't because Corbyn is able to work with people of divergent views.

He won't work with a Europhile Blairite like Adonis.


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PostPosted: Sun 31 Dec, 2017 1:59 pm 
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Tubby Isaacs wrote:
The old Adonis could have done a job for Corbyn at Transport, though I don't think he supports nationalization. But the new Adonis can go on LBC.

He's knowledgeable and writes clearly. Labour Infrastructure Commission (I think that's what they were called, something like that) - Adonis' work on that was exciting, it was impossible not to be interested. He knew his subject. I don't have extensive knowledge like Tubby has but I know enough to understand extensive public transportation infrastructure investment solves about a dozen UK problems.


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SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Well, I think there is a good chance he will.

Though it may still be significant that Adonis has so rubbished the idea of a shiny new "centrist" party saving the day for us all. Especially since Phil Collins (no, not that one) made yet another attempt to breathe life into that corpse just the other day.



LOL.
There is a reason Richard Burgon is shadow Lord Chancellor, and it isn't because Corbyn is able to work with people of divergent views.

He won't work with a Europhile Blairite like Adonis.

He's working with Cooper though. How does that fit into you narrative? Smith's also there in what could become an increasingly important role.


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PostPosted: Sun 31 Dec, 2017 2:02 pm 
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Also, if the centre/right of the party want to be involved, they could try not fucking off at a moments notice (co-ordinated with the BBC).


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PostPosted: Sun 31 Dec, 2017 2:16 pm 
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refitman wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Well, I think there is a good chance he will.

Though it may still be significant that Adonis has so rubbished the idea of a shiny new "centrist" party saving the day for us all. Especially since Phil Collins (no, not that one) made yet another attempt to breathe life into that corpse just the other day.



LOL.
There is a reason Richard Burgon is shadow Lord Chancellor, and it isn't because Corbyn is able to work with people of divergent views.

He won't work with a Europhile Blairite like Adonis.

He's working with Cooper though. How does that fit into you narrative? Smith's also there in what could become an increasingly important role.




He just isn't working with Cooper. She has never had a shadow cabinet role and her refugee role is just a title.

Giving Smith NI was a brilliant joke by Seumas'.

As for the rest, just look at the shadow cabinet. It is a complete embarrassment for a reason.


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