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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 8:10 am 
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Morning

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ssion=true


Our benefits system has become a racket for cheating the poor
Aditya Chakrabortty



Personally don"t like the title,I question the tactics,usefulness of othering by any other name.No one is immune from the vagaries of life.


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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 8:54 am 
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https://www.gov.uk/government/news/nati ... repreneurs


Press release
Nationwide search begins for young space entrepreneurs
The UK Space Agency is offering young people expert advice for their ideas of how satellites could improve life on Earth and a share of a £50,000 prize.


https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -resources


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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 9:15 am 
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Morning.

Helping the lad with his papers this morning, good to see strong headlines about NHS crisis and rail fair increases across the board.

Though the Times is blaming NHS problems on people missing appointments :roll:

In any case, not quite how Tory Central hoped the political scene would open in 2018 I imagine :twisted:


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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 9:18 am 
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#RailFail

Strong stuff this from Labour. Someone's been working hard over the break!


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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 9:46 am 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Morning.

Helping the lad with his papers this morning, good to see strong headlines about NHS crisis and rail fair increases across the board.

Though the Times is blaming NHS problems on people missing appointments :roll:

In any case, not quite how Tory Central hoped the political scene would open in 2018 I imagine :twisted:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/

Now let us have some figures on how much unpaid overtime by staff saves the NHS ?


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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 9:48 am 
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Good morfternoon.


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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 10:03 am 
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Well like many we saved the NHS incalcuable amounts in the shared self/care thing this reducing need for appointments for blood tests,diabetes and related,treatments and numerous others.Of course it would be better if people didn't miss appointments but would point out dealing with long term conditions etc is more than a full time job sometimes you have to be well organised and things can change daily ,communication breakdown,priorities can all effect "why" eg.I was still getting ambulances turning up well after obviously no longer needed.


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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 10:13 am 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
#RailFail

Strong stuff this from Labour. Someone's been working hard over the break!


The fares for the new year come out a couple of months ahead.


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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 10:14 am 
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I still have a stethoscope confession.


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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 10:21 am 
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Good-morning, everyone


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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 10:40 am 
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Tubby Isaacs wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
#RailFail

Strong stuff this from Labour. Someone's been working hard over the break!


The fares for the new year come out a couple of months ahead.

True.

Nevertheless I'm impressed with the quality of the materials


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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 10:53 am 
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Looks like things are going great for Toby Young.


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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 10:58 am 
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Fintan O'Toole extends The Italian Job metaphor.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fint ... mY.twitter
Quote:
Which brings us to The English Job of 2018. The British government is currently like Croker’s gang – immobilised by an impossible choice while their grand project teeters over the abyss. They can keep moving towards the fool’s gold of hard Brexit, but if they do their economy will go over the cliff. Or they can keep the bus from falling by moving away from their dreams towards the far end.

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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 10:59 am 
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I suggest screening for the Toby Young gene in embryos


Last edited by HindleA on Tue 02 Jan, 2018 11:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 10:59 am 
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refitman wrote:
Looks like things are going great for Toby Young.

What were they thinking?
Entirely predictable.

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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 11:06 am 
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Cracks me up that such proponents appear to think they are in any way superior.


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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 11:09 am 
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A couple of enlightening threads about the US.

https://twitter.com/Noahpinion/status/9 ... 2898282496

https://twitter.com/paulkrugman/status/ ... 0533302272

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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 11:26 am 
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Roger Ford says that Network Rail deferred £3.7bn of renewal work to the next control period (ie beyond 2019).

That's likely a few more writedowns of franchise payements in the pipeline...


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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 11:37 am 
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Morning all.

Peter Walker on hospital car parking charges...

Why free hospital parking isn't as good as it sounds

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/02/free-hospital-parking-daily-mirror-jeremy-corbyn

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The first point to stress is that I’m not arguing against reforms to the way hospital parking is currently administered and charged. As is regularly documented, too many systems are unwieldy and over-complex, with many only permitting cash payments, or forcing visitors to pay in advance when they might have little idea how long they will stay.

Charges can sometimes also seem unreasonably high, and there could be an argument for imposing a cap, or perhaps systems whereby regular visitors such as relatives of long-term patients could avoid the fees racking up.

But opening up all NHS hospital car parks to free parking at any time, for any duration, to anyone who works there or has reason to visit? That’s a different matter altogether.

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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 11:42 am 
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Fair enough,there is a discussion to be had,but it was the "free lunch";lack of consideration of varying situations/circumstances and my point of facillitating cost saving arrangements,still stands IMHO.


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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 11:55 am 
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Our work car parks are now all numberplate recognition. Out of "normal hours", staff who have registered on the system can use the car parks for free.

Presumably a variant of this could work. It would certainly allow more intelligent matching of parking charges to users and presumably then help encourage some visitors to come at less congested times of the day.

But obviously what is needed is proper local coordination of public transport with health and social care services.


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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 11:56 am 
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This is excellent, although it's sad we're only hearing about it now, he'd have been a hero.

https://twitter.com/katie_martin_fx/sta ... 6790669312

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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 12:13 pm 
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Morning.

Re: hospital parking.

I'm finding this debate a little too specific. I think a better question than free or not free is do we want a national policy or not. Personally I find the question of whether everyone should have similar access to hospital parking, regardless of where they live, an important one. I lean more to a cap on parking fees, rather than making them free, but more importantly, I think adequate parking and public transport links should be nationally set policy rather than a local lottery, so I we!come the debate. If there are charges, for instance, discounts and exceptions should be consistent across the country, so people in similar circumstances can rely on the same help wherever they live.

In a way, much of our public discourse suffers a little from this problem. A possible solution (free hospital parking) is being presented as an end in itself, but surely the end should be affordable and timely access to hospital for all users. Free parking at some hospitals could play a part, but for me it can never be the whole end as free parking is only of use if a space is available when needed. Our hospitals vary enormously in situation and so it seems to me that flexibility is necessary in deciding how affordable and timely access can be best delivered, but I certainly support the idea of nationally set minimum standards and maximum charges for hospital access.

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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 12:14 pm 
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The hospital that is local to us has buses going right into the hospital grounds so we can't complain about transport links too much. This one isn't near a rail station unlike where 'er indoors used to work in Romford...which is why they introduced charges in the first place. Whenever I went there was no spaces due to commuters leaving their cars there for the day.

We used to have the "pay for ticket first" system and no barrier but they discovered too many people were passing on to others who used up the rest of the time on the ticket. We now have a barrier system and you pay when leaving which does of course mean that you don't have to keep your eye on the clock and dash out to buy another ticket.

Cancer patients get exemption but it's such a rigmarole that I've been paying when I pick 'er indoors up.

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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 12:16 pm 
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BBC Radio Leeds‏Verified account
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The shadow transport secretary was due in Leeds to join protests about rail ticket prices - but his train's broken down:


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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 12:19 pm 
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RogerOThornhill wrote:
The hospital that is local to us has buses going right into the hospital grounds so we can't complain about transport links too much. This one isn't near a rail station unlike where 'er indoors used to work in Romford...which is why they introduced charges in the first place. Whenever I went there was no spaces due to commuters leaving their cars there for the day.

We used to have the "pay for ticket first" system and no barrier but they discovered too many people were passing on to others who used up the rest of the time on the ticket. We now have a barrier system and you pay when leaving which does of course mean that you don't have to keep your eye on the clock and dash out to buy another ticket.

Cancer patients get exemption but it's such a rigmarole that I've been paying when I pick 'er indoors up.

Are you in the TfL area Roger?

If so I'm not surprised you have better bus services!


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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 12:24 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
BBC Radio Leeds‏Verified account
More
The shadow transport secretary was due in Leeds to join protests about rail ticket prices - but his train's broken down:

Andy McDonald MP‏Verified account
@AndyMcDonaldMP

My day of campaigning has been interrupted by a broken down train on the recently bailed-out Virgin East Coast on the same day fares are hiked by 3.6%. Let’s take our railway back into public ownership!

https://twitter.com/AndyMcDonaldMP/stat ... 2080064512


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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 12:39 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Are you in the TfL area Roger?

If so I'm not surprised you have better bus services!


Yes, I do count myself fortunate for that reason.

Interesting that where she was in hospital - Royal London - there is no car park since the original hospital was there way before cars. We used either the tube or cabs. When they built the new hospital a car park would have been out of the question given land values in the area.

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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 12:39 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:
The hospital that is local to us has buses going right into the hospital grounds so we can't complain about transport links too much. This one isn't near a rail station unlike where 'er indoors used to work in Romford...which is why they introduced charges in the first place. Whenever I went there was no spaces due to commuters leaving their cars there for the day.

We used to have the "pay for ticket first" system and no barrier but they discovered too many people were passing on to others who used up the rest of the time on the ticket. We now have a barrier system and you pay when leaving which does of course mean that you don't have to keep your eye on the clock and dash out to buy another ticket.

Cancer patients get exemption but it's such a rigmarole that I've been paying when I pick 'er indoors up.

Are you in the TfL area Roger?

If so I'm not surprised you have better bus services!


Bus's run directly into NMGH, the problem for many (including me) is getting "to" the bus stop to get on the bus. On paper its a good service. Practically, for the sick or elderly, its not much use. My neighbour who I take for hospital appointments could no more walk to the hospital bus stop (over 3 miles) than walk to the hospital itself.


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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 12:43 pm 
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Of course I tend to see things subject to circumstances/situations,very much shared care ie.heavilly involved in doing dialysis until done at home etc as well as hoisting for showering bath etc.Sometimes for months at a time ie.it wasn't just a case of an attendance at an appointment necessarilly.I don't even have a car,all I am saying is that makes sense to facillitate relief of hospital transport and staff etc.


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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 12:49 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
#RailFail

Strong stuff this from Labour. Someone's been working hard over the break!



Grim.

Free lunches for all!

That we shouldn't be subsidising rich south east commuters, the fares are mostly set by the regulator already, and that we need to pay for the infrastructure somehow all seems to be ignored.

Rail was mostly privatised in 2002. The franchise system works well. The east coast mainline seems to be a good example of that.

But yes, nationalisation will make everything cheap.

It isn't remotely serious.


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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 12:53 pm 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
#RailFail

Strong stuff this from Labour. Someone's been working hard over the break!



Grim.

Free lunches for all!

That we shouldn't be subsidising rich south east commuters, the fares are mostly set by the regulator already, and that we need to pay for the infrastructure somehow all seems to be ignored.

Rail was mostly privatised in 2002. The franchise system works well. The east coast mainline seems to be a good example of that.

But yes, nationalisation will make everything cheap.

It isn't remotely serious.


There's a serious point they could make. Why doesn't Corbyn say "If I were PM, I wouldn't have cancelled those NR renewals so I would be holding VTEC to its contract"?

I think they're really going for this "£2bn bailout" because it makes it sound like there's a load of free money around that they can use to cut season tickets by lots. I don't find that plausible. I think it's going to be cheap tickets, less investment.


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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 12:55 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
Morning.

Re: hospital parking.

I'm finding this debate a little too specific. I think a better question than free or not free is do we want a national policy or not. Personally I find the question of whether everyone should have similar access to hospital parking, regardless of where they live, an important one. I lean more to a cap on parking fees, rather than making them free, but more importantly, I think adequate parking and public transport links should be nationally set policy rather than a local lottery, so I we!come the debate. If there are charges, for instance, discounts and exceptions should be consistent across the country, so people in similar circumstances can rely on the same help wherever they live.

In a way, much of our public discourse suffers a little from this problem. A possible solution (free hospital parking) is being presented as an end in itself, but surely the end should be affordable and timely access to hospital for all users. Free parking at some hospitals could play a part, but for me it can never be the whole end as free parking is only of use if a space is available when needed. Our hospitals vary enormously in situation and so it seems to me that flexibility is necessary in deciding how affordable and timely access can be best delivered, but I certainly support the idea of nationally set minimum standards and maximum charges for hospital access.


Good post.

I think there's a danger that if free parking is locked in, that new hospitals will get built out of town. That's the last thing we need.


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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 12:57 pm 
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AngryAsWell wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
BBC Radio Leeds‏Verified account
More
The shadow transport secretary was due in Leeds to join protests about rail ticket prices - but his train's broken down:

Andy McDonald MP‏Verified account
@AndyMcDonaldMP

My day of campaigning has been interrupted by a broken down train on the recently bailed-out Virgin East Coast on the same day fares are hiked by 3.6%. Let’s take our railway back into public ownership!

https://twitter.com/AndyMcDonaldMP/stat ... 2080064512


Right, no trains ever broke down under BR.


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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 12:58 pm 
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Someone who knows what he's talking about answers.

Richard Clinnick


@Clinnick1
Replying to @AndyMcDonaldMP
The nationalised railway bought that train, and paid for the wires that desperately need replacing. Perhaps the nationalised Network Rail can pay for that? Or, alternatively, how will a nationalised railway prevent train failures?


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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 1:04 pm 
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Tubby Isaacs wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
#RailFail

Strong stuff this from Labour. Someone's been working hard over the break!



Grim.

Free lunches for all!

That we shouldn't be subsidising rich south east commuters, the fares are mostly set by the regulator already, and that we need to pay for the infrastructure somehow all seems to be ignored.

Rail was mostly privatised in 2002. The franchise system works well. The east coast mainline seems to be a good example of that.

But yes, nationalisation will make everything cheap.

It isn't remotely serious.


There's a serious point they could make. Why doesn't Corbyn say "If I were PM, I wouldn't have cancelled those NR renewals so I would be holding VTEC to its contract"?

I think they're really going for this "£2bn bailout" because it makes it sound like there's a load of free money around that they can use to cut season tickets by lots. I don't find that plausible. I think it's going to be cheap tickets, less investment.



I was very grateful for your link on this.

One of the problems is governments have been using the franchise's as a buffer. People blame Virgin, or whoever, and don't realise that most are either directly or indirectly regulated.

That makes "nationalisation" a cheap win for Labour, even though the system works well.


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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 1:11 pm 
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That's exactly it. See also how the government's hidden behind Southern. Good link on the troubles with that franchise here:

https://www.londonreconnections.com/201 ... bb-report/

Basically the timetable is too intensive (on non-strike days) to be run reliably. That's the DfT setting the timetable and Network Rail's line not being up to standard.

And re the strikes, it's government policy to have more Driver Only Operation. It's not Southern's policy.


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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 1:12 pm 
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I wonder why Corbyn and Thornberry have said nothing n events in Iran.



https://twitter.com/JBickertonUK/status ... twterm%5E1


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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 1:15 pm 
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What is the procedure for assisted travel particularly for unmanned stations ?It didn't always work when pre booked and "full" complement.They always seemed stressed for being fined for delays.


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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 1:16 pm 
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Of course when you point out how much the government/NR does, people say "why not run the trains as well?" There's a logic to that.

One thing that's good about the train companies is that they want to run lots of services. When BR was about, though it did much good stuff, there was always the easy option of cutting services to solve a budget problem. Notoriously they wanted Settle-Carlisle closed, but were refused by Michael Portillo.


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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 1:18 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
What is the procedure for assisted travel particularly for unmanned stations ?It didn't always work when pre booked and "full" complement.They always seemed stressed for being fined for delays.


I don't know, I'm afraid.

Train companies do get fined for delays if it's their fault. But I think the big majority of delays are down to Network Rail, which brings home how much more significant they are in the industry than people think.


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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 1:20 pm 
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Quote:
Laura Pidcock MP‏Verified account
@LauraPidcockMP
Follow Follow @LauraPidcockMP
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Another big fare rise for rail travellers: 3.6%, the highest in 5 years. On overcrowded, ageing stock, with less staff & lower safety standards. Privatisation is the problem, not the answer. @UKLabour will bring rail franchises back into public ownership as they expire. #RailFail


Oh come on. Safety on UK rail is incredibly good. And shedloads of rolling stock is on its way.


Last edited by Tubby Isaacs on Tue 02 Jan, 2018 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 1:21 pm 
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Quote:
Right, no trains ever broke down under BR.

Not what I meant at all Tubby.
I just thought it ironic to start a "rail campaign" on a train that broke down.
Humour - its what make us laugh :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 1:25 pm 
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AngryAsWell wrote:
Quote:
Right, no trains ever broke down under BR.

Not what I meant at all Tubby.
I just thought it ironic to start a "rail campaign" on a train that broke down.
Humour - its what make us laugh :lol: :lol:


I was laughing at McDonald, apologies!


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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 1:28 pm 
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Yeah,the "station" staff sometimes asked if pre booked in the apportion blame if delay thing.Some stations had dedicated staff/someone assigned it usually worked or at least find sombody the smaller ones could be a nightmare and/or had to have taxi substitutions and "reorganise"


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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 1:38 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
What is the procedure for assisted travel particularly for unmanned stations ?It didn't always work when pre booked and "full" complement.They always seemed stressed for being fined for delays.


Glad you mentioned schedules. It's hard to be sure who public transport is run for sometimes. My bus driver husband has some schedules that are so tight that the only way to stick to them without breaking speed limits would be by not stopping at any of the bus stops. Although there are only penalties for leaving bus stops early, rather than late, there's still a lot of pressure because being late can eat into unpaid lunch breaks. And whereas I can see why the managers don't care about the drivers, what I don't get is why they have so little interest in all the customers who end up waiting for buses that are so frequently late. Why schedule them this way? I honestly don't understand it. Maybe it's just incompetence.

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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 1:39 pm 
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I think it's unlikely that a train company would be fined for taking time to assist passengers, but I'm not sure


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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 1:43 pm 
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Yeah,maybe mispoke.


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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 1:44 pm 
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Good afternoon and Happy new Year

Just back from one of my trips to the UK - as normal travelled everywhere by train....all trains were late (when actually on a train and not on a bus - funny the price is never reduced for the reduced speed and convenience) and everything was expensive....couldn't buy advanced tickets unfortunately

I know you are a proponent of UK trains Tubby but my experience of them is nothing other than bad and expensive. Also, the number of replacement buses is ridiculous.....I know that work has to be done, but surely it can be done without this level of disruption every holiday period when people want to go and see family - disrupted leisure trips are always particularly painful and some people may only takes trains then so it is not good PR either

The price of season tickets is nothing short of abominable....there is no justification


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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2018 1:45 pm 
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Fares of course are set according to RPI. Now why might that have gone up this year?!

Doubtless I'll find ferocious opposition to Hard Brexit from Laura Pidcock when I look her up, right? I'm certainly sympathetic to Labour's political predicament on Brexit, and they carry my hopes, but the fact is that as things stand, she and they are currently supporting the main thing raising train fares.


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