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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 2:17 pm 
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gilsey wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
@gilsey.

Brexit raises the likelihood of a trade deal with the US that allows their medical companies access to the NHS, something it was looking more and more likely TTIP was not going to do.

Brexit is going to impact everything, that's the whole point. Corbyn and McDonnell see opportunities for radical reform completely free from the limitations of the EU. Personally I'm not convinced by the scope of those opportunities within the straightjacket of global conventions, whilst I'm very concerned by the scope for those on the right to reshape this country with the worst of the US as their inspiration if they manage to hold onto the reins.

If enough of the country is against leaving the single market, it should be possible for the opposition to join with Tory rebels to retain a close relationship with the EU and thus keep the US corporate vultures at arms length, but to get to that point I feel it important that the idea that we have choices about how to Brexit or even Brexit at all are still open to us. "Will of the people" and "respecting the referendum" are attempts to shut that debate down or, at least, even if genuinely meant, help the interests of those who want to shut that debate down.

I'm not talking about Corbyn and McDonnell's 'opportunities for radical reform', which may or may not exist, and indeed they may or may not be thinking about them.
Nor am I talking abut trade deals with the US, I accept that's a concern but Labour are unlikely to go with such a deal.

I'm just talking about public expenditure. Brexit may/will make us poorer in terms of GDP due to loss of trade but if we say, we can't spend more money on the NHS because brexit has made us poorer, we'll make ourselves poorer still. If we haven't learnt that lesson after 7 years of austerity we don't deserve the NHS.


Yes, I'm not looking forward to "Brexit" becoming a future excuse for governments not doing what they should (still) be doing.


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 3:18 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Somebody said on Twitter re the referendum being a close run thing - "yes it was, but so was the battle of Waterloo, there weren't many demands for that to be run again" ;)

(a facetious quip yes, but with a kernel of truth)


Amusing that they chose Waterloo. Only 36% of Wellington's army were British. The rest were German, Dutch and Belgian...going quite badly towards the end until the Prussians ( even more Germans ) arrived to drag our nuts out of the fire.


Maybe...

oh aye, probably not...


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 3:28 pm 
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Brexit - What We Now Know

https://institute.global/news/brexit-what-we-now-know

Never mind the messenger, its the message that counts.


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 3:32 pm 
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AngryAsWell wrote:
Brexit - What We Now Know

https://institute.global/news/brexit-what-we-now-know

Never mind the messenger, its the message that counts.

Yes. I have it saved from earlier to read later, but at a glance agreed with at least some of it !


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 4:04 pm 
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Interestingly, and following my earlier comments, if I've done my sums right there are about 50 Tory MPs who are believed to have voted Remain and whose constituencies are estimated to have voted Remain, many of course in London.

That's fertile ground for rebellion, especially if they are talking to each other.

Fingers crossed.


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 4:07 pm 
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Oh bloody hell, what is Angie Rayner doing?

Quote:
Shadow education secretary Angela Rayner says focus on girls and minority ethnic groups has had ‘negative impact’ on others
White working-class children should be motivated to become more aspirational in schools and “push themselves” the way those from other backgrounds have done, the shadow education secretary, Angela Rayner, has argued.
In an interview with the Spectator, Rayner said a focus in the educational system on women and minority ethnic groups had perhaps inadvertently had “a negative impact” on the attention paid to white working-class boys.


Take out London, and ethnic minority educational achievement doesn't look so good.

The Welsh Government does what most of us would want with Education, and has not very many ethnic minorities to focus too much on. But it's finding it difficult to raise attainment in poor areas. Same with the Scottish Government. It's just very hard.

This talk is poisonous and stupid, particularly from Rayner. She's supposed to get class properly.


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 4:07 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Interestingly, and following my earlier comments, if I've done my sums right there are about 50 Tory MPs who are believed to have voted Remain and whose constituencies are estimated to have voted Remain, many of course in London.

That's fertile ground for rebellion, especially if they are talking to each other.

Fingers crossed.


They'd be voting for a strong chance of putting corbyn and mcdonnell in downing street. I won't believe a significant tory rebellion is even possible unless or until it happens.

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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 4:10 pm 
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I'm reassessing Rayner.

I think that shows a very tendency to humour Kipper ignorance. Those people aren't voting for beardy lefties. Forget about them. By all means say you need to do more for working class voters- that's true. Beware of "white working class".


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 4:13 pm 
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adam wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Interestingly, and following my earlier comments, if I've done my sums right there are about 50 Tory MPs who are believed to have voted Remain and whose constituencies are estimated to have voted Remain, many of course in London.

That's fertile ground for rebellion, especially if they are talking to each other.

Fingers crossed.


They'd be voting for a strong chance of putting corbyn and mcdonnell in downing street. I won't believe a significant tory rebellion is even possible unless or until it happens.


I don't know if they would be- that's the sort of thing Whips say, and MPs are cowards.

It would be bad for Theresa May, and in any case, she might feel she's had enough by then. But I think Labour should make it clear (at the right time, as I say, I recognise that's not easy) that they'll vote for Soft Brexit if May delivers it. Then go to town even more on austerity, and Tory backbench headbanging.


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 4:20 pm 
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Rayner's actual words were different from the spin quoted there, Tubby.

Not the first time the right wing press has tried to stitch her up, I expect it won't be the last either.

They are utterly unscrupulous, and people really should wise up to them.


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 4:21 pm 
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I was quoting the Guardian, I thought. At least a bright poster on it, Fripouille. Is he wrong?


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 4:26 pm 
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I apologize to Rayner if the quote was unfair. I've rated her before, as you know. And impressively, I heard that when she was promoted (by necessity, very quickly) she didn't know anything about Education, and was on the phone to the NUT all the time for advice. I think that's good, and I could never have told. Compare Michael Dugher who'd obviously spoken to nobody about rail, when he opined that doing engineering work at Christmas was wrong.

But I do worry with the arrogance in some strong Corbyn supporters than everybody else before has just sat around in London, and not tried.


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 4:33 pm 
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Tubby Isaacs wrote:
I apologize to Rayner if the quote was unfair. I've rated her before, as you know. And impressively, I heard that when she was promoted (by necessity, very quickly) she didn't know anything about Education, and was on the phone to the NUT all the time for advice. I think that's good, and I could never have told. Compare Michael Dugher who'd obviously spoken to nobody about rail, when he opined that doing engineering work at Christmas was wrong.

But I do worry with the arrogance in some strong Corbyn supporters than everybody else before has just sat around in London, and not tried.

FEATURES

‘I’ll eat you alive’ - Angela Rayner interview
The shadow education minister explains how leaving school at 16 as a single mum shaped her politics

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/01/why ... er-a-tory/


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 4:35 pm 
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AR has made some comments about this today, I think.


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 4:37 pm 
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Jon Worth's brexit stamps thread is a laugh.
https://twitter.com/jonworth/status/948884928900591617

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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 4:40 pm 
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Cheers. So this is a quote.

Quote:
‘They have not been able to adapt. Culturally, we are not telling them that they need to learn and they need to aspire. They are under the impression that they don’t need to push themselves, in the way that disadvantaged groups had to before. I think that is why there is a bit of a lag there. I think we need to do much more about the culture of white working class in this country.’


Having lived in a working class, heavily ethnic minority area of London, I've not noticed any particularly striking "cultural" commitment to Education that isn't there in eg the Welsh Valleys. What is there is much greater economic dynamism, more spent on schools, greater capacity to encourage very motivated teachers from all over the place, much greater opportunity for links with business. Chris Cook calls it "the Canary Wharf factor".

I think this stuff is dangerous talk. Like saying "black culture" involves guns, or something.


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 5:20 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Interestingly, and following my earlier comments, if I've done my sums right there are about 50 Tory MPs who are believed to have voted Remain and whose constituencies are estimated to have voted Remain, many of course in London.

That's fertile ground for rebellion, especially if they are talking to each other.

Fingers crossed.


13 Tory MPs in Scotland, of course. Some hints have been made about them rebelling on a softer Brexit. If they don't, I reckon there'll be a few of them not returning. These MPs need to matter to the Tories a lot, or else they're back where they were, with much of Scotland seeing them as absentee landlords.


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 5:50 pm 
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Quote:
Jeremy Corbyn‏Verified account
@jeremycorbyn
Follow Follow @jeremycorbyn
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These shocking inequalities in our society must end. The next Labour government will roll out maximum pay ratios, introduce a Real Living Wage of £10/hour and strengthen trade union rights so workers can fight for better pay and conditions.#FatCatThursday


I don't get how Hard Brexit is consistent with this stuff. It's seeing the country as if it's all London, with lots of very rich people about everywhere. I don't know where the "fat cats" in the Valleys live. But I do that Wales is the part of the UK most dependent on EU trade.

We've done all this before, lots of times on here. Just making the point that we need a change in policy, and time is running out. But as I always say, I appreciate the difficulties.


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 6:26 pm 
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Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Quote:
Jeremy Corbyn‏Verified account
@jeremycorbyn
Follow Follow @jeremycorbyn
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These shocking inequalities in our society must end. The next Labour government will roll out maximum pay ratios, introduce a Real Living Wage of £10/hour and strengthen trade union rights so workers can fight for better pay and conditions.#FatCatThursday


I don't get how Hard Brexit is consistent with this stuff. It's seeing the country as if it's all London, with lots of very rich people about everywhere. I don't know where the "fat cats" in the Valleys live. But I do that Wales is the part of the UK most dependent on EU trade.

We've done all this before, lots of times on here. Just making the point that we need a change in policy, and time is running out. But as I always say, I appreciate the difficulties.



We have been over this time and time again as you said

I am not as convinced as you are that Labour believe in Hard Brexit at all - the six tests would seem to preclude this and I don't think anywhere have Labour said that being in the SM/CU has been ruled out - even Hugo's linked document above says that leaving the EU means leaving the EU Single Market and the EU Customs Union....something McDonnell and I have been saying for a while. I know it is semantics but it does leave flexibility

The trouble is I am still unclear what the 'soft brexit' wanted is - do we want the status quo ie the CU/SM but no influence? Do we want just the SM but no CU or do we want to reverse Brexit completely etc......

Willow (thanks for the response by the way) is ambivalent on the CU - others would want more than this and want to have the status quo (a Norway plus deal)

I do not see any of these being easy to achieve - the first would not be politically acceptable to me and many others as we will really be handing over sovereignty to the EU, the second would lead to a hard border in Ireland or at the Irish Sea as I see it and the final one, which is the most desirable for me, is difficult to see how to do with a Tory Government and a way to reverse the Brexit is fraught with traps and difficulties

I am not able to provide any simple answers because I do not think there any silver bullets and anyone who pretends there is are just kidding themselves - second referendum, Parliamentary rebellions etc, etc.......this is the legacy of the arch criminal in all this....David 'Twat' Cameron

And I also see that Blair said a pro-remain Labour Party would annihilate the Tories - what a lot of shite....it may win marginally but all this talk of 'annihilation' and 'should be 20 points ahead' is as fanciful as the stuff that comes from Brexiteers


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 6:37 pm 
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I'm not convinced Corbyn is Hard Brexit either. I know lots of unpleasant New Labour people are, because immigration.

But we have to get to Soft Brexit.

And I agree with you- "Blair" wouldn't be annihilating the Tories.


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 6:38 pm 
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Can I also say that I find these links to the consequences of Brexit very interesting and informative - thanks for that

However, we on here and at the other place as well are pretty much all understanding that Brexit is a bloody stupid idea, and even more so the Tory version of it - we just debate the political tactics of how to make it better


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 6:44 pm 
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Tubby Isaacs wrote:
I'm not convinced Corbyn is Hard Brexit either. I know lots of unpleasant New Labour people are, because immigration.

But we have to get to Soft Brexit.

And I agree with you- "Blair" wouldn't be annihilating the Tories.



Thanks Tubby, I am not being obtuse here but can I ask what soft Brexit do you want?

I am for avoiding Brexit altogether for the reasons I gave above
Willow suggested SM is most important with CU a secondary concern

I have come to realise that for myself 'soft Brexit' is very difficult to deliver

CU/SM is politically unsustainable in my view (and even i would oppose it)
SM without CU will falter on the Irish border question (which I do accept could still be resolvable at some point but I am doubtful)


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 6:50 pm 
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I think CU/SM it needs to be. What's made it difficult so far is the idea that we're going to be striking all these amazing trade deals. We aren't, and if we did they'd involve stuff like chlorinated chicken that nobody wants.

We can go further out from there (that's why people like Richard North support EEA) or come further in.


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 6:53 pm 
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Kendall was called racist for the same statement

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ssion=true


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 6:56 pm 
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Tubby Isaacs wrote:
I think CU/SM it needs to be. What's made it difficult so far is the idea that we're going to be striking all these amazing trade deals. We aren't, and if we did they'd involve stuff like chlorinated chicken that nobody wants.

We can go further out from there (that's why people like Richard North support EEA) or come further in.



And that is a logical economical position but can you explain to be how we can justify it politically

The Tories cannot deliver it, no way....Labour may be able to but the fact we will have no say is a really difficult thing to accept.....and If I am saying that how long would it be before we have UKIP and the vileness coming back to haunt us....ever thing will be the fault of the EU and the Tories will love it as they will hide behind blaming the EU for their decisions

I could go with it as a transition to going back in but as a standalone agreement - severe doubts

No other country has the SM/CU - probably for good reasons....it would not be acceptable to the electorate


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 7:00 pm 
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The great thing about Rayner is who she is. Labour is supposed to bethe party of the working class, and she has a great backstory. One of the things that went badly wrong under Blair was the growth of SpAds who became MPs with no experience of anything at all outside politics. Miliband exemplified this, with the thinnest of backgrounds outside of being a political adviser (remember everyone trying to big up his brief trip over to Harvard as a 'post'). Reversing that is going to need some proper structural change, which the pressure to replace Blairites with true believers will put back.

But, she hasn't done or said anything of interest yet. she has made a few (undertandable) howlers as she is new to the role, but that is it. Her prominence is more a reflection of the overall standard of the Labour frontbench, which is easily the worst since WW2.


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 7:02 pm 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
The great thing about Rayner is who she is. Labour is supposed to bethe party of the working class, and she has a great backstory. One of the things that went badly wrong under Blair was the growth of SpAds who became MPs with no experience of anything at all outside politics. Miliband exemplified this, with the thinnest of backgrounds outside of being a political adviser (remember everyone trying to big up his brief trip over to Harvard as a 'post'). Reversing that is going to need some proper structural change, which the pressure to replace Blairites with true believers will put back.

But, she hasn't done or said anything of interest yet. she has made a few (undertandable) howlers as she is new to the role, but that is it. Her prominence is more a reflection of the overall standard of the Labour frontbench, which is easily the worst since WW2.



Go away you annoying Tory shill.....


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 7:17 pm 
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wittles is up
Barley lentil sweet potato carrot parsnip stew
How many


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 7:22 pm 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
The great thing about Rayner is who she is. Labour is supposed to bethe party of the working class, and she has a great backstory. One of the things that went badly wrong under Blair was the growth of SpAds who became MPs with no experience of anything at all outside politics. Miliband exemplified this, with the thinnest of backgrounds outside of being a political adviser (remember everyone trying to big up his brief trip over to Harvard as a 'post'). Reversing that is going to need some proper structural change, which the pressure to replace Blairites with true believers will put back.

But, she hasn't done or said anything of interest yet. she has made a few (undertandable) howlers as she is new to the role, but that is it. Her prominence is more a reflection of the overall standard of the Labour frontbench, which is easily the worst since WW2.


She's been cautious. I'd have thought academies and free schools would have had a harder time by now. As they ought to have done.

The frontbench has been dictated in part by the attitude of relative heavyweights. I want a couple of the fast promoted "loyalists" demoted. But not her.


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 7:35 pm 
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citizenJA wrote:
wittles is up
Barley lentil sweet potato carrot parsnip stew
How many


I've just had Thai green vegetable curry with ------ mash potatoes-----! I'd run out of rice but cooked the curry before I remembered I had no rice.
Better than last week, I had my veg curry with ----spaghetti ---- now that was worth the bin space!!!! very weird

*makes note on shopping list
*RICE*


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 8:06 pm 
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'Alarming' new stats show teacher recruitment down by a third"

https://www.tes.com/news/school-news/br ... ssion=true


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 8:36 pm 
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Not even being in the top twenty target seats has cheered me up no end-not.


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 8:38 pm 
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FWIW informal meeting of candidates on Sunday.


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 8:40 pm 
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Even ironed my dressing gown.


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 8:49 pm 
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howsillyofme1 wrote:
CU/SM is politically unsustainable in my view (and even i would oppose it)

It's the best of a very bad job, if the Union is to be maintained.
DUP for some bizarre reason want brexit and no hard border, so SM+CU it is, until the political environment changes.
Perhaps we should insist Arlene Foster justifies it to Rees-Mogg et al.

Seriously though, I have a tiny hope that arranging the transition period will prove so logistically challenging, to both sides, that an extension of the A50 period will be agreed instead, which will allow a much longer period for the political environment to change and allow us to remain.

http://blogs.surrey.ac.uk/politics/2018 ... ransition/

https://jonworth.eu/transition-period-u ... s-debated/

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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 8:50 pm 
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Of course the sensible thing some would say with a regard to the leak upstairs would get someone to fix it.However,such is the import of Brexit and nothing else matters,far better to take zero responsibility and blame others should the roof collapse.


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 8:51 pm 
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An article in the FT suggest using the NHS much more as anti-Brexit argument. I like that, but it's going to be difficult.


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 8:53 pm 
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Carl Sargeant's son Jack fights Welsh byelection for Labour
Jack Sargeant selected as party’s assembly candidate in Alyn and Deeside, as he vows to find out truth behind his father’s death

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... byelection


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 8:58 pm 
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The One Quality a Healthy Society Needs Most
What Happens to a Merciless Society?

https://eand.co/the-one-quality-a-healt ... 77f3f048d2


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 9:18 pm 
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Tubby Isaacs wrote:
An article in the FT suggest using the NHS much more as anti-Brexit argument. I like that, but it's going to be difficult.



I don't think people see the connecti0on. You see the reaction it gets on here. People don't want to know.

O_nly the oppostion coould sell it, and they don't want to do so.


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 9:19 pm 
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Ukip leader's new girlfriend Jo Marney brands Grenfell Tower 'nest of illegal immigrants' in vile social media rant
Henry Bolton's lover also labelled alleged victims of Harvey Weinstein 'hard done by little rich girls'

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/ukip ... 32266.html


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 9:23 pm 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
An article in the FT suggest using the NHS much more as anti-Brexit argument. I like that, but it's going to be difficult.



I don't think people see the connecti0on. You see the reaction it gets on here. People don't want to know.

O_nly the oppostion coould sell it, and they don't want to do so.


O_o_o_nly the lonely


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 9:26 pm 
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Quote:
Before I became an MP, I was a representative for NHS workers for the National Union of Public Employees. I got to know many staff; nurses, doctors, porters, cleaners, security and admin staff – the NHS team.

We have a big decision on 23June, I value our NHS and admire the dedication of all its staff. I would not be voting for Remain if I thought there was any risk to our NHS whatsoever, the risk to the NHS is if we leave.

The NHS is Labour’s proudest creation. We founded it in 1948 because health is a human right, not a privilege.

But under the Tories it is in crisis. The NHS is in record deficit. What has damaged our NHS is the decisions made by this Tory Government – their top-down reorganisation and the insufficient funding.

Look at the decisions they’ve made:

* Cutting mental health budgets,

* Cutting nurses’ and midwives’ bursaries. I met with a group of nurses in Birmingham last week who had benefited from the bursary. Do you know what they said to me? “We want to protect it for the next generation.”

* Slashing social care for the elderly and disabled, making it unsafe to discharge them and causing bed-blocking,

* Opening up more of the NHS to be used by private patients,

* And, picking an unnecessary fight with junior doctors, all while cutting taxes for the super-rich and big corporations.

That crisis would be even worse if many on the Leave side had their way. People who have argued against the NHS and free healthcare on demand in principle. These same people now have the audacity to portray themselves as the saviours of the NHS. Most of the Leave side – the Tory right and UKIP – don’t even want there to be an NHS.

The millionaire funder of the Leave side, Arron Banks said: “If it were up to me, I’d privatise the NHS.”

Nigel Farage called for an insurance-based system to replace the NHS

Michael Gove is co-author of a book that says the NHS is “no longer relevant in the 21st century”. A book which calls for the NHS to be replaced by a new system of health provision in which people would pay money into individual health accounts.

And Boris Johnson, who said: “If people have to pay for NHS services, they will value them more”

Well, Michael, Nigel and Boris, people do value our NHS. Labour values our NHS. We created it and we will protect it from the likes of you.

A Vote to Leave is a vote to put our NHS in jeopardy, in the hands of those who want to break it up to end it as a service free at the point of use.

The Leave side has now admitted that a vote to leave would hit the economy that means less tax revenue to fund our NHS.

The independent Institute of Fiscal Studies predicts that to meet the Government’s deficit targets would require billions more in austerity around £10 billion of which could fall on the NHS.

We must repeal the Health & Social Care Act, an Act that opens up the NHS to more privatisation and that was backed by all those now feigning concern for our NHS.

It is Labour that fought in Europe to exclude the NHS from TTIP, and we want all public services protected. As it stands, we would veto TTIP.

The Vote Leave bus said “we send the EU £350 million a week, let’s fund the NHS instead”

There’s a couple of problems with that, firstly the UK Statistics Authority says that slogan is “misleading” and told them to stop using it.

The UK Statistics Authority is diplomatic when they say “misleading”, they mean dishonest. It’s an outright lie, and they know it.

And they’ve since been forced to re-paint the bus.

Does anyone really believe that those from the hard right of the Tories and UKIP would spend any extra funds on the NHS?

They’ve already promised this money again and again, on farming subsidies, fixing potholes and tax breaks no doubt for their rich friends and to corporations.

It’s not just me or Labour that is saying this, Dr Sarah Woollaston, a Conservative MP and a former GP was until last week supporting the Leave campaign.

This is what she had to say: “I could not have set foot on a battle bus that has at the heart of its campaign a figure that I know to be untrue”. Dr Sarah Woollaston is now voting for Remain, she said she feared what would happen to the NHS if we left what she called the “Brexit penalty”.

Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson are wolves in sheep’s clothing, using their fake concern for the NHS to mask their real agenda.

If you care about the NHS, as I do, as Labour does, as NHS staff do, then vote Remain.

The NHS is one of our greatest achievements, not just as a Labour Party, but as a country.

I’ve worked for NHS staff, the NHS has helped me and my family. I wouldn’t advocate Remain unless I knew our NHS was better off that way.

Fifty-two thousand EU nationals work in our NHS, as doctors, nurses and physiotherapists. They contribute to our country and save our lives.

EU nationals are 4.7 percent of our population. Yet they are five percent of NHS nurses and ten percent of NHS doctors.

If you care about our NHS, don’t just listen me, listen to NHS staff – every NHS workers’ union and royal college is backing Remain.

The risk to the NHS if we vote Leave is the damage to public finances caused by a hit to our economy, and the risk to our NHS by a victory for those who would scrap a universal NHS – free at the point of use.

The NHS is a force for civilisation. If, like us, you care about our health service, then listen to the dedicated staff here today, dedicated to the NHS and dedicated to remaining in Europe.

Please use your vote on 23 June to Remain and protect our NHS.


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 9:27 pm 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
An article in the FT suggest using the NHS much more as anti-Brexit argument. I like that, but it's going to be difficult.



I don't think people see the connecti0on. You see the reaction it gets on here. People don't want to know.

O_nly the oppostion coould sell it, and they don't want to do so.


I think it can be done, and by concentrating on the NHS as they are at the moment, Labour, have made a start. Now they just need to tie the ends together.


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 9:40 pm 
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AngryAsWell wrote:
The One Quality a Healthy Society Needs Most
What Happens to a Merciless Society?

https://eand.co/the-one-quality-a-healt ... 77f3f048d2

brilliant


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 9:43 pm 
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citizenJA wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
The One Quality a Healthy Society Needs Most
What Happens to a Merciless Society?

https://eand.co/the-one-quality-a-healt ... 77f3f048d2

brilliant

I thought you would appreciate that one :)


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 9:47 pm 
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See ? Its starting, the connection is being made.....
Local. No tail.
‏@localnotail
6h6 hours ago

It's increasingly clear that we can't have Brexit *and* a fully-functioning NHS, so which would you choose?

Please RT this into both kinds of #FBPE & beyond, ta

https://twitter.com/localnotail/status/ ... 0797666305


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 9:51 pm 
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Why is there always a winter crisis in the NHS?
People are using NHS services more due to a growing and ageing population, and funding isn't keeping pace with demand.

A winter crisis in the NHS feels like an annual tradition - but it hasn't always been this way.

In the first four days of 2018, there have been more mentions of "NHS" with "winter crisis" in British newspapers than in the entire period from 2003 to 2009.

https://news.sky.com/story/why-is-there ... sf-twitter

Sky....


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 9:53 pm 
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Quote:
The NHS is a force for civilisation. If, like us, you care about our health service, then listen to the dedicated staff here today, dedicated to the NHS and dedicated to remaining in Europe.

Please use your vote on 23 June to Remain and protect our NHS.


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jan, 2018 9:59 pm 
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BBC Newsnight‏Verified account
@BBCNewsnight
Following @BBCNewsnight

“The Brexit Generation is dying out” - @daaronovitch with our latest #viewsnight

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status ... 1220697088


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