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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 6:43 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 6:47 pm 
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Cameron put that decision off as long as he could. He knew it was stupid.


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 6:49 pm 
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howsillyofme1 wrote:
Quote:
Corbyn refused

https://labourlist.org/2016/03/corbyn-r ... on-the-eu/

and it wasn't just Cameron he wouldn't be seen alongside

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/corb ... -wrvq7c75c

Strange really, considering who Corbyn has been quite happy to share platforms with over the years.



so your contention is that if Corbyn had share platforms with these people it would have convinced more people to vote Remain than did?

Can I just ask if you have any sliver of evidence....un petit peu?

I would contend the absolute opposite to be honest....no more evidence that that but I would be happy to back mine over yours.....looking at how popular Corbyn is with Blair supporters and vice versa


I don't know if it's possible to produce evidence on this really.

It might have worked, but how does Cameron answer the "You're here now, with a terrorist sympathizer, he's OK now, is he?"


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 6:54 pm 
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On a side note, has anyone noticed Cushelle and Velvet toilet roll disappear from their local supermarket shelves or is it just here?

Feels like a conspiracy as both Tesco and Sainsburys have suddenly stopped stocking them.

Appreciate not strictly political but then again it might be - early Brexit consequences, loo roll shortages :D

Just curious as to whether it's a local phenomenon or more widespread.

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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 6:54 pm 
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Tubby Isaacs wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
Quote:
Corbyn refused

https://labourlist.org/2016/03/corbyn-r ... on-the-eu/

and it wasn't just Cameron he wouldn't be seen alongside

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/corb ... -wrvq7c75c

Strange really, considering who Corbyn has been quite happy to share platforms with over the years.



so your contention is that if Corbyn had share platforms with these people it would have convinced more people to vote Remain than did?

Can I just ask if you have any sliver of evidence....un petit peu?

I would contend the absolute opposite to be honest....no more evidence that that but I would be happy to back mine over yours.....looking at how popular Corbyn is with Blair supporters and vice versa


I don't know if it's possible to produce evidence on this really.

It might have worked, but how does Cameron answer the "You're here now, with a terrorist sympathizer, he's OK now, is he?"



so why did the poster make such claims then if there is no evidence......the poster never demonstrates any doubt in their comments so I was just curious to see if there was anything to back it up

I agree with these things there is no real evidence either way....we will form our own opinions....opinions, not facts!


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 6:57 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
@HSOM1

Thanks for the long posts. Interesting perspectives.
Hear, hear


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 6:59 pm 
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@Willow

http://www.itv.com/news/2017-09-27/velv ... er-forest/


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 7:00 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
On a side note, has anyone noticed Cushelle and Velvet toilet roll disappear from their local supermarket shelves or is it just here?

Feels like a conspiracy as both Tesco and Sainsburys have suddenly stopped stocking them.

Appreciate not strictly political but then again it might be - early Brexit consequences, loo roll shortages :D

Just curious as to whether it's a local phenomenon or more widespread.
Food is a lot more expensive
Toilet tissue brand outages I'm unable to report


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 7:02 pm 
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citizenJA wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
On a side note, has anyone noticed Cushelle and Velvet toilet roll disappear from their local supermarket shelves or is it just here?

Feels like a conspiracy as both Tesco and Sainsburys have suddenly stopped stocking them.

Appreciate not strictly political but then again it might be - early Brexit consequences, loo roll shortages :D

Just curious as to whether it's a local phenomenon or more widespread.
Food is a lot more expensive
Toilet tissue brand outages I'm unable to report



I believe there are some left over Daily Mails at a train station near you......not sure if they are velvety though!


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 7:13 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
On a side note, has anyone noticed Cushelle and Velvet toilet roll disappear from their local supermarket shelves or is it just here?

Feels like a conspiracy as both Tesco and Sainsburys have suddenly stopped stocking them.

Appreciate not strictly political but then again it might be - early Brexit consequences, loo roll shortages :D

Just curious as to whether it's a local phenomenon or more widespread.



Izal?


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 7:15 pm 
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I've PTOd - (with much-needed help).


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 7:22 pm 
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HindleA wrote:


Thanks!

I felt a bit silly asking but should never have doubted the range of Flythenest's collective knowledge. That certainly clears that up. Though also exposes the lack of genuine competition these days if the withdrawal of one company can halve loo roll choice.

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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 7:28 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
On a side note, has anyone noticed Cushelle and Velvet toilet roll disappear from their local supermarket shelves or is it just here?

Feels like a conspiracy as both Tesco and Sainsburys have suddenly stopped stocking them.

Appreciate not strictly political but then again it might be - early Brexit consequences, loo roll shortages :D

Just curious as to whether it's a local phenomenon or more widespread.



Izal?


The threat of which would surely have turned a few leave votes to remain. Alan Johnson definitely missed a trick there. :D

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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 7:30 pm 
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@Willow I don't know if reason/related just came up on "looking".


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 7:37 pm 
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Tubby Isaacs wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
Quote:
Corbyn refused

https://labourlist.org/2016/03/corbyn-r ... on-the-eu/

and it wasn't just Cameron he wouldn't be seen alongside

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/corb ... -wrvq7c75c

Strange really, considering who Corbyn has been quite happy to share platforms with over the years.



so your contention is that if Corbyn had share platforms with these people it would have convinced more people to vote Remain than did?

Can I just ask if you have any sliver of evidence....un petit peu?

I would contend the absolute opposite to be honest....no more evidence that that but I would be happy to back mine over yours.....looking at how popular Corbyn is with Blair supporters and vice versa


I don't know if it's possible to produce evidence on this really.

It might have worked, but how does Cameron answer the "You're here now, with a terrorist sympathizer, he's OK now, is he?"


It is really a question of whether someone is prepared to spend political capital for a cause or not.

Miliband by joining fores with Cameron and Clegg expended some of Labour's political capital in defence of the Union. This, without doubt, damaged Labour in the 2015 election north of the border as the SNP could present themselves as the insurgents, opposed to the rest.

Similarly, if Corbyn had appeared on the same platform as Brown, Blair and Cameron in defence of the UK's remaining in the EU he would have spent some of his own political capital in defence of the greater cause. Some of his own "outsider" image would have been tarnished buying support for Remain.

Miliband put the greater good above party. Corbyn did the opposite.

You see the same on this board, with some of those who see politics as a sport who *hated* putting a cause, even such an important one as the Union, above the party.

I think Miliband was right, and Corbyn was wrong. But then I voted for Miliband, and didn't for Corbyn, because Miliband led a Labour party I could support. Classic Centrist Dad.


Last edited by SpinningHugo on Tue 09 Jan, 2018 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 7:37 pm 
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Quote:
Fracking firm gets green light to test for oil at Balcombe … again

Approval by West Sussex council comes as another shale company plans a legal challenge against Scotland’s fracking ban (Guardian)


https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/jan/09/fracking-firm-gets-green-light-to-drill-for-oil-at-balcombe-again


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 7:43 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Cameron was hopeless and had burned all his bridges for his own personal gain.

Come the day, possible allies across the continent, including Labour, were simply unable to stand with him, because, in simple terms, he had shafted them all in the past.

It really, really was Cameron's fault from start to finish.



If Cameron really was so politically toxic, how did he manage to win the 2015 election after 5 years of appalling austerity.

[Don't tell me, the MSM.]

Cameron was a rather skilled politician, see the hash May makes of the same job daily for proof.

[No doubt a fool will now say that my saying Cameron was a skillful politician will deliberately pretend they misread this as an endorsement of Conservative policies but that cannot be helped.]


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 7:43 pm 
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Without being too indelicate I tend to have a shower/douche,I have the advantage of the shower area being half the room and a "wet" one anyway.


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 7:48 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
Quote:
Fracking firm gets green light to test for oil at Balcombe … again

Approval by West Sussex council comes as another shale company plans a legal challenge against Scotland’s fracking ban (Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/jan/09/fracking-firm-gets-green-light-to-drill-for-oil-at-balcombe-again
Hydraulic fracturing in the UK, McVey DWP and Health & Social care in the hands of J Hunt
too much sorrow


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 7:54 pm 
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the Daily Mail has a right to publish their whatever
there's no right making others stock it, read it or support it
declining to read or advertise in the Daily Mail isn't censorship


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 7:56 pm 
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Hunt has always had ultimate responsibility for adult social care,though I understand the wariness he will oversee the green paper.


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 8:02 pm 
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As ever SH responding to own made up points others never made.


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 8:05 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 8:08 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
As ever SH responding to own made up points others never made.


I have no idea what he is on about....perhaps it is his equivalent of Blackadder's sticking two pencils up his nose, putting his underpants on his head and saying wibble, wibble!

To be fair I found Blackadder made more sense


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 8:15 pm 
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Quote:
t is really a question of whether someone is prepared to spend political capital for a cause or not.

Miliband by joining fores with Cameron and Clegg expended some of Labour's political capital in defence of the Union. This, without doubt, damaged Labour in the 2015 election north of the border as the SNP could present themselves as the insurgents, opposed to the rest.

Similarly, if Corbyn had appeared on the same platform as Brown, Blair and Cameron in defence of the UK's remaining in the EU he would have spent some of his own political capital in defence of the greater cause. Some of his own "outsider" image would have been tarnished buying support for Remain.

Miliband put the greater good above party. Corbyn did the opposite.

You see the same on this board, with some of those who see politics as a sport who *hated* putting a cause, even such an important one as the Union, above the party.

I think Miliband was right, and Corbyn was wrong. But then I voted for Miliband, and didn't for Corbyn, because Miliband led a Labour party I could support. Classic Centrist Dad.



It would have been a bit easier for everyone if you had said 'no, I don't have any evidence whatsoever but am going to write a load of irrelevant wibble anyway'


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 8:15 pm 
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He does have points,to be fair,shorn of the needless abuse and guff.


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 8:18 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
Hunt has always had ultimate responsibility for adult social care,though I understand the wariness he will oversee the green paper.


Of course, there's a good chance he'll double (at least) his unpopularity once he is directly associated in the public mind with the failure of not just the NHS, but Social Care as well.


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 8:20 pm 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Cameron was hopeless and had burned all his bridges for his own personal gain.

Come the day, possible allies across the continent, including Labour, were simply unable to stand with him, because, in simple terms, he had shafted them all in the past.

It really, really was Cameron's fault from start to finish.



If Cameron really was so politically toxic, how did he manage to win the 2015 election after 5 years of appalling austerity.

[Don't tell me, the MSM.]

Cameron was a rather skilled politician, see the hash May makes of the same job daily for proof.

[No doubt a fool will now say that my saying Cameron was a skillful politician will deliberately pretend they misread this as an endorsement of Conservative policies but that cannot be helped.]


I think it may have had something to do with the SNP taking all the seats in Scotland and the Lib Dem vote collapsing and so letting the Tories take a lot of their seats

Cameron was a lying incompetent who took us out of the EU....well done mate!


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 8:21 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
He does have points,to be fair,shorn of the needless abuse and guff.



They can be described as 'points' yes.......just not requiring the adjective good!


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 8:24 pm 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
It is really a question of whether someone is prepared to spend political capital for a cause or not.

Miliband by joining fores with Cameron and Clegg expended some of Labour's political capital in defence of the Union. This, without doubt, damaged Labour in the 2015 election north of the border as the SNP could present themselves as the insurgents, opposed to the rest.

Similarly, if Corbyn had appeared on the same platform as Brown, Blair and Cameron in defence of the UK's remaining in the EU he would have spent some of his own political capital in defence of the greater cause. Some of his own "outsider" image would have been tarnished buying support for Remain.

Miliband put the greater good above party. Corbyn did the opposite.

You see the same on this board, with some of those who see politics as a sport who *hated* putting a cause, even such an important one as the Union, above the party.

I think Miliband was right, and Corbyn was wrong. But then I voted for Miliband, and didn't for Corbyn, because Miliband led a Labour party I could support. Classic Centrist Dad.

Gosh this sounds clever, except that lots of us advancing the Corbyn approach (I can't speak for Corbyn himself of course) advocate it precisely because we think it's the best way to avoid Brexit.

And we are not stupid people, before you have another go.


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 8:29 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
It is really a question of whether someone is prepared to spend political capital for a cause or not.

Miliband by joining fores with Cameron and Clegg expended some of Labour's political capital in defence of the Union. This, without doubt, damaged Labour in the 2015 election north of the border as the SNP could present themselves as the insurgents, opposed to the rest.

Similarly, if Corbyn had appeared on the same platform as Brown, Blair and Cameron in defence of the UK's remaining in the EU he would have spent some of his own political capital in defence of the greater cause. Some of his own "outsider" image would have been tarnished buying support for Remain.

Miliband put the greater good above party. Corbyn did the opposite.

You see the same on this board, with some of those who see politics as a sport who *hated* putting a cause, even such an important one as the Union, above the party.

I think Miliband was right, and Corbyn was wrong. But then I voted for Miliband, and didn't for Corbyn, because Miliband led a Labour party I could support. Classic Centrist Dad.

Gosh this sounds clever, except that lots of us advancing the Corbyn approach (I can't speak for Corbyn himself of course) advocate it precisely because we think it's the best way to avoid Brexit.

And we are not stupid people, before you have another go.



'sounds clever' - really, Paul?

I think it just a lot of hot air dressed up as wibble (I like that word.....I shall use it a lot today, as Malcolm Tucker did with NMFP)


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 8:29 pm 
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I guess your confusion Hugo, is because Labour has found itself in the centre ground on Brexit.

I would hazard a guess that most Brits never really knew, and still don't, whether we should leave or remain. It's not a binary thing. And having a political party representing that messy middle is both principled and pragmatic.


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 8:30 pm 
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Goodnight, everyone
love,
cJA


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 8:33 pm 
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@citizenJA

Night night.


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 8:39 pm 
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https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article ... s-children

toby-young-remains-threat-nations-children

An uncompromising piece!


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 9:21 pm 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Cameron was hopeless and had burned all his bridges for his own personal gain.

Come the day, possible allies across the continent, including Labour, were simply unable to stand with him, because, in simple terms, he had shafted them all in the past.

It really, really was Cameron's fault from start to finish.



If Cameron really was so politically toxic, how did he manage to win the 2015 election after 5 years of appalling austerity.

[Don't tell me, the MSM.]

Cameron was a rather skilled politician, see the hash May makes of the same job daily for proof.

[No doubt a fool will now say that my saying Cameron was a skillful politician will deliberately pretend they misread this as an endorsement of Conservative policies but that cannot be helped.]


Won in 2015 by a few things.

Wages rising for about a year before- see we undid Labour's mess blah. May called an election with wages falling, and paid the price. Very rare to call an election with falling wages, apparently.

Skillful use of the Lib Dem "shield". Didn't like the Coalition? You wait till we get free of them.

The SNP.

Shameless bribing of pensioners at huge cost. That alone was where the majority came from.

The referendum promise got lots of UKIP defectors back.


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 9:21 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/toby-young-remains-threat-nations-children

toby-young-remains-threat-nations-children

An uncompromising piece!


That's very good.


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 9:22 pm 
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Hard to get a word in edge-wise here tonight.


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 9:31 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
It is really a question of whether someone is prepared to spend political capital for a cause or not.

Miliband by joining fores with Cameron and Clegg expended some of Labour's political capital in defence of the Union. This, without doubt, damaged Labour in the 2015 election north of the border as the SNP could present themselves as the insurgents, opposed to the rest.

Similarly, if Corbyn had appeared on the same platform as Brown, Blair and Cameron in defence of the UK's remaining in the EU he would have spent some of his own political capital in defence of the greater cause. Some of his own "outsider" image would have been tarnished buying support for Remain.

Miliband put the greater good above party. Corbyn did the opposite.

You see the same on this board, with some of those who see politics as a sport who *hated* putting a cause, even such an important one as the Union, above the party.

I think Miliband was right, and Corbyn was wrong. But then I voted for Miliband, and didn't for Corbyn, because Miliband led a Labour party I could support. Classic Centrist Dad.

Gosh this sounds clever, except that lots of us advancing the Corbyn approach (I can't speak for Corbyn himself of course) advocate it precisely because we think it's the best way to avoid Brexit.

And we are not stupid people, before you have another go.



You really think we can avoid Brexit? I don't.


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 10:07 pm 
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Shameless "apparent" bribing of pensioners/future pensioners clarification.I would be wary of the presentation rather than detail.Similarly the social care musings last GE (with eventual cap) was a vast increase in passing on ability for in a home situation.


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 10:15 pm 
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And the Webbian changes were cost neutral.


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 10:17 pm 
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Chances are I will get less,like many others,than before.


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 10:19 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
Shameless "apparent" bribing of pensioners/future pensioners clarification.I would be wary of the presentation rather than detail.Similarly the social care musings last GE (with eventual cap) was a vast increase in passing on ability for in a home situation.


Sorry, my bad. I meant relative bribing within the priorities of public austerity, with the triple lock. Lots of bad policies for pensioners there too.

IIRC, he got a 4.5% swing from Labour.


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 10:19 pm 
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Realise I am pain in the arse on this,but I don't see it as any different than the "client State" stuff from the Right.


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 10:21 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
Realise I am pain in the arse on this,but I don't see it as any different than the "client State" stuff from the Right.


You're not a pain in the arse, I put it badly.


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 10:24 pm 
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Takes two to be fair,I knee jerked.


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 10:24 pm 
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Labour won the Indie referendum for the union - and for the government - and then cameron immediately shat all over the labour party, much as he spent five years shitting on the lib dems - measuring up their constituencies for curtains for the new tory mps whilst relying on the sitting lib dem votes to stay in. He would have done exactly the same if labour had helped him win his stupid pointless and idiotically simplistic EU referendum.

Labour's leadership campaigned for remain votes in labour heartlands every night. Labour voters appear to have turned out to vote remain in the roughly the same proportions as lib dem, snp and green voters. This whole shitbag is cameron's and the conservative's catastrophe. And the country's, obviously, but not Labour's.

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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 10:24 pm 
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I see my MP Rishi Sunak has got a job at the DCLG, he writes a column for our local rural weekly, which is not entirely uncontroversial. I don't usually read it but my eye was caught by the title.
http://www.darlingtonandstocktontimes.c ... eneration/
:sick:

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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 10:31 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
Takes two to be fair,I knee jerked.


And there is, as we well know, no jerk like a knee jerk.

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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 10:32 pm 
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Did you know elephants are right or left tusked?



Pto


Last edited by HindleA on Tue 09 Jan, 2018 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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