Re: Tuesday 9th January 2018
Posted: Tue 09 Jan, 2018 6:43 pm
?
I don't know if it's possible to produce evidence on this really.howsillyofme1 wrote:Corbyn refused
https://labourlist.org/2016/03/corbyn-r ... on-the-eu/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and it wasn't just Cameron he wouldn't be seen alongside
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/corb ... -wrvq7c75c" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Strange really, considering who Corbyn has been quite happy to share platforms with over the years.
so your contention is that if Corbyn had share platforms with these people it would have convinced more people to vote Remain than did?
Can I just ask if you have any sliver of evidence....un petit peu?
I would contend the absolute opposite to be honest....no more evidence that that but I would be happy to back mine over yours.....looking at how popular Corbyn is with Blair supporters and vice versa
Tubby Isaacs wrote:I don't know if it's possible to produce evidence on this really.howsillyofme1 wrote:Corbyn refused
https://labourlist.org/2016/03/corbyn-r ... on-the-eu/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and it wasn't just Cameron he wouldn't be seen alongside
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/corb ... -wrvq7c75c" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Strange really, considering who Corbyn has been quite happy to share platforms with over the years.
so your contention is that if Corbyn had share platforms with these people it would have convinced more people to vote Remain than did?
Can I just ask if you have any sliver of evidence....un petit peu?
I would contend the absolute opposite to be honest....no more evidence that that but I would be happy to back mine over yours.....looking at how popular Corbyn is with Blair supporters and vice versa
It might have worked, but how does Cameron answer the "You're here now, with a terrorist sympathizer, he's OK now, is he?"
Hear, hearPaulfromYorkshire wrote:@HSOM1
Thanks for the long posts. Interesting perspectives.
Food is a lot more expensiveWillow904 wrote:On a side note, has anyone noticed Cushelle and Velvet toilet roll disappear from their local supermarket shelves or is it just here?
Feels like a conspiracy as both Tesco and Sainsburys have suddenly stopped stocking them.
Appreciate not strictly political but then again it might be - early Brexit consequences, loo roll shortages
Just curious as to whether it's a local phenomenon or more widespread.
citizenJA wrote:Food is a lot more expensiveWillow904 wrote:On a side note, has anyone noticed Cushelle and Velvet toilet roll disappear from their local supermarket shelves or is it just here?
Feels like a conspiracy as both Tesco and Sainsburys have suddenly stopped stocking them.
Appreciate not strictly political but then again it might be - early Brexit consequences, loo roll shortages
Just curious as to whether it's a local phenomenon or more widespread.
Toilet tissue brand outages I'm unable to report
Willow904 wrote:On a side note, has anyone noticed Cushelle and Velvet toilet roll disappear from their local supermarket shelves or is it just here?
Feels like a conspiracy as both Tesco and Sainsburys have suddenly stopped stocking them.
Appreciate not strictly political but then again it might be - early Brexit consequences, loo roll shortages
Just curious as to whether it's a local phenomenon or more widespread.
Thanks!HindleA wrote:@Willow
http://www.itv.com/news/2017-09-27/velv ... er-forest/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The threat of which would surely have turned a few leave votes to remain. Alan Johnson definitely missed a trick there.PorFavor wrote:Willow904 wrote:On a side note, has anyone noticed Cushelle and Velvet toilet roll disappear from their local supermarket shelves or is it just here?
Feels like a conspiracy as both Tesco and Sainsburys have suddenly stopped stocking them.
Appreciate not strictly political but then again it might be - early Brexit consequences, loo roll shortages
Just curious as to whether it's a local phenomenon or more widespread.
Izal?
It is really a question of whether someone is prepared to spend political capital for a cause or not.Tubby Isaacs wrote:I don't know if it's possible to produce evidence on this really.howsillyofme1 wrote:Corbyn refused
https://labourlist.org/2016/03/corbyn-r ... on-the-eu/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and it wasn't just Cameron he wouldn't be seen alongside
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/corb ... -wrvq7c75c" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Strange really, considering who Corbyn has been quite happy to share platforms with over the years.
so your contention is that if Corbyn had share platforms with these people it would have convinced more people to vote Remain than did?
Can I just ask if you have any sliver of evidence....un petit peu?
I would contend the absolute opposite to be honest....no more evidence that that but I would be happy to back mine over yours.....looking at how popular Corbyn is with Blair supporters and vice versa
It might have worked, but how does Cameron answer the "You're here now, with a terrorist sympathizer, he's OK now, is he?"
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ombe-againFracking firm gets green light to test for oil at Balcombe … again
Approval by West Sussex council comes as another shale company plans a legal challenge against Scotland’s fracking ban (Guardian)
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Cameron was hopeless and had burned all his bridges for his own personal gain.
Come the day, possible allies across the continent, including Labour, were simply unable to stand with him, because, in simple terms, he had shafted them all in the past.
It really, really was Cameron's fault from start to finish.
Hydraulic fracturing in the UK, McVey DWP and Health & Social care in the hands of J HuntPorFavor wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ombe-againFracking firm gets green light to test for oil at Balcombe … again
Approval by West Sussex council comes as another shale company plans a legal challenge against Scotland’s fracking ban (Guardian)
I have no idea what he is on about....perhaps it is his equivalent of Blackadder's sticking two pencils up his nose, putting his underpants on his head and saying wibble, wibble!HindleA wrote:As ever SH responding to own made up points others never made.
t is really a question of whether someone is prepared to spend political capital for a cause or not.
Miliband by joining fores with Cameron and Clegg expended some of Labour's political capital in defence of the Union. This, without doubt, damaged Labour in the 2015 election north of the border as the SNP could present themselves as the insurgents, opposed to the rest.
Similarly, if Corbyn had appeared on the same platform as Brown, Blair and Cameron in defence of the UK's remaining in the EU he would have spent some of his own political capital in defence of the greater cause. Some of his own "outsider" image would have been tarnished buying support for Remain.
Miliband put the greater good above party. Corbyn did the opposite.
You see the same on this board, with some of those who see politics as a sport who *hated* putting a cause, even such an important one as the Union, above the party.
I think Miliband was right, and Corbyn was wrong. But then I voted for Miliband, and didn't for Corbyn, because Miliband led a Labour party I could support. Classic Centrist Dad.
Of course, there's a good chance he'll double (at least) his unpopularity once he is directly associated in the public mind with the failure of not just the NHS, but Social Care as well.HindleA wrote:Hunt has always had ultimate responsibility for adult social care,though I understand the wariness he will oversee the green paper.
I think it may have had something to do with the SNP taking all the seats in Scotland and the Lib Dem vote collapsing and so letting the Tories take a lot of their seatsSpinningHugo wrote:PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Cameron was hopeless and had burned all his bridges for his own personal gain.
Come the day, possible allies across the continent, including Labour, were simply unable to stand with him, because, in simple terms, he had shafted them all in the past.
It really, really was Cameron's fault from start to finish.
If Cameron really was so politically toxic, how did he manage to win the 2015 election after 5 years of appalling austerity.
[Don't tell me, the MSM.]
Cameron was a rather skilled politician, see the hash May makes of the same job daily for proof.
[No doubt a fool will now say that my saying Cameron was a skillful politician will deliberately pretend they misread this as an endorsement of Conservative policies but that cannot be helped.]
HindleA wrote:He does have points,to be fair,shorn of the needless abuse and guff.
Gosh this sounds clever, except that lots of us advancing the Corbyn approach (I can't speak for Corbyn himself of course) advocate it precisely because we think it's the best way to avoid Brexit.SpinningHugo wrote:It is really a question of whether someone is prepared to spend political capital for a cause or not.
Miliband by joining fores with Cameron and Clegg expended some of Labour's political capital in defence of the Union. This, without doubt, damaged Labour in the 2015 election north of the border as the SNP could present themselves as the insurgents, opposed to the rest.
Similarly, if Corbyn had appeared on the same platform as Brown, Blair and Cameron in defence of the UK's remaining in the EU he would have spent some of his own political capital in defence of the greater cause. Some of his own "outsider" image would have been tarnished buying support for Remain.
Miliband put the greater good above party. Corbyn did the opposite.
You see the same on this board, with some of those who see politics as a sport who *hated* putting a cause, even such an important one as the Union, above the party.
I think Miliband was right, and Corbyn was wrong. But then I voted for Miliband, and didn't for Corbyn, because Miliband led a Labour party I could support. Classic Centrist Dad.
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Gosh this sounds clever, except that lots of us advancing the Corbyn approach (I can't speak for Corbyn himself of course) advocate it precisely because we think it's the best way to avoid Brexit.SpinningHugo wrote:It is really a question of whether someone is prepared to spend political capital for a cause or not.
Miliband by joining fores with Cameron and Clegg expended some of Labour's political capital in defence of the Union. This, without doubt, damaged Labour in the 2015 election north of the border as the SNP could present themselves as the insurgents, opposed to the rest.
Similarly, if Corbyn had appeared on the same platform as Brown, Blair and Cameron in defence of the UK's remaining in the EU he would have spent some of his own political capital in defence of the greater cause. Some of his own "outsider" image would have been tarnished buying support for Remain.
Miliband put the greater good above party. Corbyn did the opposite.
You see the same on this board, with some of those who see politics as a sport who *hated* putting a cause, even such an important one as the Union, above the party.
I think Miliband was right, and Corbyn was wrong. But then I voted for Miliband, and didn't for Corbyn, because Miliband led a Labour party I could support. Classic Centrist Dad.
And we are not stupid people, before you have another go.
Won in 2015 by a few things.SpinningHugo wrote:PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Cameron was hopeless and had burned all his bridges for his own personal gain.
Come the day, possible allies across the continent, including Labour, were simply unable to stand with him, because, in simple terms, he had shafted them all in the past.
It really, really was Cameron's fault from start to finish.
If Cameron really was so politically toxic, how did he manage to win the 2015 election after 5 years of appalling austerity.
[Don't tell me, the MSM.]
Cameron was a rather skilled politician, see the hash May makes of the same job daily for proof.
[No doubt a fool will now say that my saying Cameron was a skillful politician will deliberately pretend they misread this as an endorsement of Conservative policies but that cannot be helped.]
That's very good.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article ... s-children
toby-young-remains-threat-nations-children
An uncompromising piece!
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Gosh this sounds clever, except that lots of us advancing the Corbyn approach (I can't speak for Corbyn himself of course) advocate it precisely because we think it's the best way to avoid Brexit.SpinningHugo wrote:It is really a question of whether someone is prepared to spend political capital for a cause or not.
Miliband by joining fores with Cameron and Clegg expended some of Labour's political capital in defence of the Union. This, without doubt, damaged Labour in the 2015 election north of the border as the SNP could present themselves as the insurgents, opposed to the rest.
Similarly, if Corbyn had appeared on the same platform as Brown, Blair and Cameron in defence of the UK's remaining in the EU he would have spent some of his own political capital in defence of the greater cause. Some of his own "outsider" image would have been tarnished buying support for Remain.
Miliband put the greater good above party. Corbyn did the opposite.
You see the same on this board, with some of those who see politics as a sport who *hated* putting a cause, even such an important one as the Union, above the party.
I think Miliband was right, and Corbyn was wrong. But then I voted for Miliband, and didn't for Corbyn, because Miliband led a Labour party I could support. Classic Centrist Dad.
And we are not stupid people, before you have another go.
Sorry, my bad. I meant relative bribing within the priorities of public austerity, with the triple lock. Lots of bad policies for pensioners there too.HindleA wrote:Shameless "apparent" bribing of pensioners/future pensioners clarification.I would be wary of the presentation rather than detail.Similarly the social care musings last GE (with eventual cap) was a vast increase in passing on ability for in a home situation.
You're not a pain in the arse, I put it badly.HindleA wrote:Realise I am pain in the arse on this,but I don't see it as any different than the "client State" stuff from the Right.
And there is, as we well know, no jerk like a knee jerk.HindleA wrote:Takes two to be fair,I knee jerked.