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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 7:10 am 
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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 9:12 am 
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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 9:15 am 
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Good morfternoon.


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 9:18 am 
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Davis and Hammond make plea to Germany in pursuit of Brexit deal

Quote:
They said they were seeking a bespoke deal with the EU described as “the most ambitious in the world” that should “cover the length and breadth of our economies including the service industries — and financial services”.


The arrangements that exist between the EU countries exist because they are within the EU countries. We are choosing to leave so we are choosing to turn our backs on those arrangements. The EU have said this all along and are still saying it. If we want a deal that reflects the present arrangements as closely as possible then we shouldn't be rejecting the present arrangements as we are. This is all just ludicrous.

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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 10:23 am 
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They haven't listened to a word Barnier's said, still.

https://twitter.com/Simon_Gardner/statu ... 4337058818

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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 10:54 am 
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Morning folks,
Seems folk aren’t changing their minds about Brexit:
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-scotland-curtice/britons-gloomier-about-brexit-but-no-change-of-heart-pollster-curtice-idUKKBN1EY2RH


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 10:59 am 
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55DegreesNorth wrote:

Another view
https://twitter.com/jonworth/status/950869911336902661

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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 11:27 am 
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Devestating on rail policy. Some actual facts and analysis.

http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analy ... nalisation


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 11:29 am 
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Morning all. Took 'er indoors for a scan which seems to be have been successful this time thankfully.

So...Damian Hinds, what does he believe in?

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Tom Richmond‏
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Damian Hinds, 2014: "There is no appetite in the country for a wholesale return to academic selection at 11, for good reasons, but why not have at least one unashamedly academically elite state school in each county or major conurbation?"


And as laura McInerney said just now: Told you the grammar school zombie movie is always primed for a sequel.

:roll:

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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 11:42 am 
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https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit- ... otiations/
"Where Brexit will hurt most in Europe"
Quote:
The findings is sure to bolster the view among Brexiteers that there may be divisions on the EU side that can be exploited to Britain’s advantage in Phase 2 of the negotiations, which are due to start within weeks.


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 11:47 am 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
Devestating on rail policy. Some actual facts and analysis.

http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analy ... nalisation


Ah yes, James Ball - one of the loudest voices in the "means testing is actually progressive, ACTUALLY" tendency.


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 12:16 pm 
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Dearie me...

https://twitter.com/tkbeynon/status/951062858909003776

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This is a very confusing message. Europeans do cheese and wine better than us, apple growers are already suffering from lack of EU workers, oranges for marmalade come from Seville, and Churchill was one of first to call for a "United States of Europe". Dunno about Shakespeare.


What on earth is Digby Jones getting involved with a stunt led by UKIP? He really is a self-important berk.

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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 12:17 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
Devestating on rail policy. Some actual facts and analysis.

http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analy ... nalisation


Ah yes, James Ball - one of the loudest voices in the "means testing is actually progressive, ACTUALLY" tendency.



And that is an argument against what he says in what way?


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 12:24 pm 
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May's just shouted, 'And which government started bringing the private sector into health?' at Corbyn
The internal market was introduced into the NHS by Thatcher's government


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 12:29 pm 
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citizenJA wrote:
May's just shouted, 'And which government started bringing the private sector into health?' at Corbyn
The internal market was introduced into the NHS by Thatcher's government



The internal market is quite different from the involvement of the private sector.

The private sector has always been involved, and always will be. The suppliers of medicines is an easy and obvious example.


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 1:03 pm 
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Indeed,so May was talking cack and CJA is correct.


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 1:07 pm 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
May's just shouted, 'And which government started bringing the private sector into health?' at Corbyn
The internal market was introduced into the NHS by Thatcher's government



The internal market is quite different from the involvement of the private sector.

The private sector has always been involved, and always will be. The suppliers of medicines is an easy and obvious example.



Good morning

Was that response supposed to be serious?

As to the report you linked to....the first point about the 'subsidy to the rich' is always being trotted out by the right wing when someone from the left suggests a policy thta can be portrayed as such. It ignores the environmental benefit of transport - and most people who so travel regularly do so for work so it is clear that those who do not work will travel less that those who do - pensioners, the unemployed, the disabled -who are then also subject to high ticket prices as well

As to the prices of tickets - I have always failed to understand the price of a single ticket in the UK......and why you are so badly punished for not wanting a return...but there you go....not great id a tourist or going on multi-leg journeys for some reason

As to ticket prices - it is a bit difficult to compare as the collapse in the pound since 2010 has made the tickets look cheaper

A similar Journey over here from Geneva Airport to Brig will cost CHF132 return (around £100) and half for a single - no peak fare either. This can be reduced if bought in advance as well.......you can half that price if you pay CHF165 for a yearly half-price ticket and so that would be £50 return (virtually everyone has one, no limit on which train to use and can be bought by non-résidents too). Then you could invest around £3000 if you want a yearly season ticket for all of the country

These prices are using the 2018 xchange rate of around 1.3 which is ridiculous......and so as a % of salary it is much lower than in the UK

So I find that the article makes relevant points but it is not the whole story and is not the reality for a lot people who travel - most people want to travel at peak times and so using advance tickets is not not comparing apples with pears

Yes, the trains are subsidised - so what? They are good, I cannot remember the last time I had to travel by bus - every train I have taken in the UK in the last year has had a problem or been replaced by bus


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 1:10 pm 
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I love you, friends
I can't stay at the computer today
the sun is shining
love
cJA


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 1:29 pm 
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Labour's last manifesto contained proposals to improve bus services as well as changing how the railways are run.

I find it genuinely hilarious that the Centrist Dad tendency have just discovered that buses exist, btw ;)


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 1:45 pm 
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https://disidealist.files.wordpress.com ... artoon.jpg

Image

This is promising to be a very good Long Read indeed —

https://disidealist.wordpress.com/2018/ ... -mistakes/

“” For a scholarly, and entertaining, account of why Ministers make mistakes, one can do no better than to read the masterly study by Crewe and King, “The Blunders of Our Governments” (Oneworld, 2013). Indeed, so vital and comprehensive is this discussion of the failings of modern Government, that it would be pointlessly arrogant of me to suggest a fundamentally deeper insight, so I will use their broad categories of blunder-causation in this essay, as I seek to explain the particular failures, mistakes and cock-ups of education policy.“”

Later ..... not just “very good”, excellent !

In many departments any criticism of or comment on a minister's back of the fag packet wheezes is treated as treason . Only jobsworths may stay, you are OUT !

Thanks to the New Right and New Labour .


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 1:47 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 2:09 pm 
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frog222 wrote:
the masterly study by Crewe and King, “The Blunders of Our Governments” (Oneworld, 2013).

I've known about that book for a while and still can't decide whether I really want to read it or I really don't.
I'll read your link and see if it helps me make my mind up.

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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 2:11 pm 
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Good cartoons there.


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 2:22 pm 
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gilsey wrote:
frog222 wrote:
the masterly study by Crewe and King, “The Blunders of Our Governments” (Oneworld, 2013).

I've known about that book for a while and still can't decide whether I really want to read it or I really don't.
I'll read your link and see if it helps me make my mind up.

Frog's link doesn't seem to relate to the quote.

Though the linked article is excellent on the West London Free School


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 2:28 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
gilsey wrote:
frog222 wrote:
the masterly study by Crewe and King, “The Blunders of Our Governments” (Oneworld, 2013).

I've known about that book for a while and still can't decide whether I really want to read it or I really don't.
I'll read your link and see if it helps me make my mind up.

Frog's link doesn't seem to relate to the quote.

Though the linked article is excellent on the West London Free School

I think frog's quote is saying that the article uses the book's framework, using their 'broad categories of blunder-causation'. :D

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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 2:44 pm 
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There's a lot of comment on the causes of the NHS crisis, usually underfunding and the 'ageing population', but I've seen only a couple of mentions of the impact of austerity on the general health of the population. There's plenty of data showing that poor people suffer poorer health than rich, so it follows that expanding the numbers of poor people as they have since 2010 will result in increased demand for health services.

This article isn't about health, it's a follow-up to the EHRC report, and it's summarising the effect that govt policies 2010-2017 will have on annual incomes in 2021-22.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/neweconom ... austerity/
Quote:
But in November the Equalities and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) published a distributional assessment of the impact of tax and welfare reforms between 2010 and 2017, modelled in 2021/22 tax year. It did not receive much attention, and does not include any discussion or set of recommendations. But the analysis in the paper is damning. It highlights just how regressive the tax and welfare changes have been, with the greatest burden falling on the poorest, ethnic minorities, women, children and the disabled.

You might think it isn't telling us anything we don't already know, but it's worth looking through the graphs, particularly fig 10, re children.
Quote:
Households with three or more children have been particularly hard hit, with cash losses amounting to £5,400 per year. In contrast, losses for households with no children have only amounted to £500 a year.

Quote:
It is hard to believe that a government would target its cuts on children, and especially children in large families. Inevitably the government’s policies will add to the numbers of children living in poverty, and have major consequences for the lives that children lead.

We may not find it all that hard to believe.

Anyway, my point is that this is a projection forward 4 years so if nothing changes the implications for the NHS are truly horrifying.

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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 2:53 pm 
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Not to be forgotten, some big reports a few years back found that Lansley's reorganisation was in no small part to blame for problems in the NHS. Some of those problems may have been fixed, but it seems unlikely.


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 2:57 pm 
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gilsey wrote:
frog222 wrote:
the masterly study by Crewe and King, “The Blunders of Our Governments” (Oneworld, 2013).

I've known about that book for a while and still can't decide whether I really want to read it or I really don't.
I'll read your link and see if it helps me make my mind up.


I had a bit of a reaction to the last chapter where they talk about HS2 in passing, where they say "the fools didn't allow for working on trains". Try working on packed trains if we don't add capacity with HS2.

But it was good overall.


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 2:57 pm 
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"gilsey"]
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
gilsey wrote:
frog222 wrote:
the masterly study by Crewe and King, “The Blunders of Our Governments” (Oneworld, 2013).

I've known about that book for a while and still can't decide whether I really want to read it or I really don't.
I'll read your link and see if it helps me make my mind up.

Frog's link doesn't seem to relate to the quote.

Though the linked article is excellent on the West London Free School

I think frog's quote is saying that the article uses the book's framework, using their 'broad categories of blunder-causation'. :D

A bit mystified ! The quote is from the long read , 4th para . the link should go straight to

Why Policymakers Make Mistakes January 2, 2018 disidealist

I haven't yet read the latest on WLFS, which was on the sidebar of the link !Unless I'm going mad, of course :-)


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 3:02 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
Devestating on rail policy. Some actual facts and analysis.

http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analy ... nalisation


Ah yes, James Ball - one of the loudest voices in the "means testing is actually progressive, ACTUALLY" tendency.


What does "loud" mean there?

I'm one of that tendency with some stuff, like tuition fees. With rail, I think passengers paying more has protected investment in lean political times, but at a cost (quite literally). But I think we've reached the end of the line with that model- it's one of the interesting things about VTEC, where they've not the revenues they thought these last couple of years (and incurred fairly large losses). I wish the public debate had been more that than "bailouts".


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 3:05 pm 
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I don't really understand the problem with the internal market- I'm professing ignorance, not making a rhetorical point there. Lots of stuff would need to happen as part of measuring costs, I think. But I know from what people say that more is involved than that.


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 3:09 pm 
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howsillyofme1 wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
May's just shouted, 'And which government started bringing the private sector into health?' at Corbyn
The internal market was introduced into the NHS by Thatcher's government



The internal market is quite different from the involvement of the private sector.

The private sector has always been involved, and always will be. The suppliers of medicines is an easy and obvious example.



Good morning

Was that response supposed to be serious?

As to the report you linked to....the first point about the 'subsidy to the rich' is always being trotted out by the right wing when someone from the left suggests a policy thta can be portrayed as such. It ignores the environmental benefit of transport - and most people who so travel regularly do so for work so it is clear that those who do not work will travel less that those who do - pensioners, the unemployed, the disabled -who are then also subject to high ticket prices as well

As to the prices of tickets - I have always failed to understand the price of a single ticket in the UK......and why you are so badly punished for not wanting a return...but there you go....not great id a tourist or going on multi-leg journeys for some reason

As to ticket prices - it is a bit difficult to compare as the collapse in the pound since 2010 has made the tickets look cheaper

A similar Journey over here from Geneva Airport to Brig will cost CHF132 return (around £100) and half for a single - no peak fare either. This can be reduced if bought in advance as well.......you can half that price if you pay CHF165 for a yearly half-price ticket and so that would be £50 return (virtually everyone has one, no limit on which train to use and can be bought by non-résidents too). Then you could invest around £3000 if you want a yearly season ticket for all of the country

These prices are using the 2018 xchange rate of around 1.3 which is ridiculous......and so as a % of salary it is much lower than in the UK

So I find that the article makes relevant points but it is not the whole story and is not the reality for a lot people who travel - most people want to travel at peak times and so using advance tickets is not not comparing apples with pears

Yes, the trains are subsidised - so what? They are good, I cannot remember the last time I had to travel by bus - every train I have taken in the UK in the last year has had a problem or been replaced by bus


Just to take your last point, I think with the ease of refund technology now, we should be making partial refunds for journeys interrupted by engineering work. It would cost a bit, but I think it would be fairer and I was persuaded by something you said before on this- that lots of people only use trains at times when the engineering work is happening.


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 3:20 pm 
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frog222 wrote:
"gilsey"]
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
gilsey wrote:
Frog's link doesn't seem to relate to the quote.

Though the linked article is excellent on the West London Free School

I think frog's quote is saying that the article uses the book's framework, using their 'broad categories of blunder-causation'. :D

A bit mystified ! The quote is from the long read , 4th para . the link should go straight to

Why Policymakers Make Mistakes January 2, 2018 disidealist

I haven't yet read the latest on WLFS, which was on the sidebar of the link !Unless I'm going mad, of course :-)

Hi Frog there was an error in your link, which I've now fixed.

The also very interesting piece on West London Free School is here

https://disidealist.wordpress.com/2018/ ... rehensive/


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 3:25 pm 
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Tubby Isaacs wrote:
I don't really understand the problem with the internal market- I'm professing ignorance, not making a rhetorical point there. Lots of stuff would need to happen as part of measuring costs, I think. But I know from what people say that more is involved than that.

I wish I could find the report I read.

The problems Lansley created were quite technical and wouldn't play out well in the media, so we haven't ever heard much about them. The report found that, fundamentally, the new system made it harder to coordinate provision across the different branches of health and social care, so in system terms the path from, say, A&E to discharge or transfer to social care became more troublesome. Presumably more single points of failure, less contingency etc.


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 3:29 pm 
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Tubby,

I know someone on the Brighton-London line put his refund tickets on Facebook recently - he had loads. I think that works ok with season tickets but it is rather worrying that people get so many refunds - not suggestive of a stable Delivery to a captured market

I think that replacement bus services should have significantly reduced costs and in my experience the TOC/Network <Rail seem not to care too much - in the end we will drive people away from trains and back to the road

I still cannot understand the extortionate prices of single tickets in a lot of cases......it negates some of the benefits of advance tickets. If I fly in I cannot reserve a ticket (and until recently Liverpool Parkway had no means of picking up an advance ticket anyway) and so advance ticket + full price single is more expensive that full price return

Also, extortionate season tickets - >£10K from Wolverhampton to London, or £3K for Liverpool to Manchester - criminal!

As to internal markets.....there is a tendency to try to create competition where it doesn't make sense just because competition is seen to be the way to reduce cost. I have experienced a similar approach in private industry. Trouble is there is very little concentration on quality of delivery so we just end up displacing costs and end up being less efficient. Having people delivering solutions to a business they don't know tends to mean that the commissioning company spend more money on definition, on penalties for scope change or for redoing it when it doesn't work properly


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 3:30 pm 
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PFY 3.20-- just finished reading it !

https://disidealist.wordpress.com/2018/ ... #more-2040

This BTL was rather revealing; -- "" Moving away from explicit admissions policies, there were a number of other characteristics of the school which may have had the effect of dissuading some parents from applying.

The school’s uniform was only available from a small selection of shops (including Harrods) and was the most expensive I’d ever seen. I worked out that it would cost upwards of £300 to kit out a child. When I contacted the school to ask whether any help was available for children on low incomes, I was told that there wasn’t but that the LEA might be able to help.

Rules around personal appearance were unusually strict, even for the sort of wannabe 1950s minor boarding school popular with Gove and his acolytes at the time. Some of these rules were, in my view, discriminatory and probably unlawful. Corn Row hair was explicitly prohibited, for example. I doubt that affected many white kids.

For the purposes of legal clarity, I have no evidence that these were intentionally aimed at affecting admissions, or that the school was deliberately trying to skew its intake. I was looking solely at potential impact, not intention. But it would seem reasonable that they may have an impact on the decision making process of some parents."
"

The author's summing up was extremely fair , but establishes that WLFS was good enough, but not exceptional .


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 3:37 pm 
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Just a continuing on my UK rail network rant.......the number of tickets available on mobile platforms - that would help a lot for travellers accessing low cost options when on the move - is very low


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 3:42 pm 
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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... a-entry-uk


Last edited by HindleA on Wed 10 Jan, 2018 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 3:44 pm 
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howsillyofme1 wrote:
Just a continuing on my UK rail network rant.......the number of tickets available on mobile platforms - that would help a lot for travellers accessing low cost options when on the move - is very low

You had me wondering about "mobile platforms" for a minute there! :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 3:57 pm 
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Tubby Isaacs wrote:
I don't really understand the problem with the internal market- I'm professing ignorance, not making a rhetorical point there. Lots of stuff would need to happen as part of measuring costs, I think. But I know from what people say that more is involved than that.

The internal market pre-dated Lansley considerably, I think it goes back to Major, and New Labour liked it. RobertSnozers is/was generally in favour of it, IIRC, and knows more about it than I do. I did some work with the NHS in the 90s and it just seemed to me to be paper shuffling between different bits of the public sector in those days, but it certainly made greater involvement of the private sector more practical.

PCTs were working quite well by the time Lansley came along and ripped it all up, but I felt it had taken a long time for them to get there.

The idea of Foundation Trusts seemed to be that they could be allowed to go bust if they didn't keep to their budget but in practice the losses/surpluses just got pooled back at the DoH at the end of the financial year, indeed I think they still do, remember Osborne creaming off a net surplus a few years ago.

I think this is one of the ideas behind these Accountable Care Organisations, that they'll be given massive budgets but that will be it, no national pooling. Like Burnham has taken on in Manchester, only much less democratic.

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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 4:01 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
I don't really understand the problem with the internal market- I'm professing ignorance, not making a rhetorical point there. Lots of stuff would need to happen as part of measuring costs, I think. But I know from what people say that more is involved than that.

I wish I could find the report I read.

The problems Lansley created were quite technical and wouldn't play out well in the media, so we haven't ever heard much about them. The report found that, fundamentally, the new system made it harder to coordinate provision across the different branches of health and social care, so in system terms the path from, say, A&E to discharge or transfer to social care became more troublesome. Presumably more single points of failure, less contingency etc.


Yeah, I certainly.get that Lansley caused a lot of problems, but let me know if you find the report.

I was thinking more of the Major Iand New Labour) structure.


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 4:13 pm 
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Kelly Tolhurst on Newsnight yesterday - anybody seen it?

Apparently "car crash" does not cover it, "major motorway pile up" might be more apposite :D


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 4:17 pm 
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Kings Fund 2015

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publicatio ... government

nhs-under-coalition-government
Quote:
Key findings

This report concludes that the:
- coalition government’s reforms have resulted in greater marketisation of the NHS but that claims of mass privatisation are exaggerated
- reforms have resulted in top-down reorganisation of the NHS and this has been distracting and damaging
- new systems of governance and accountability resulting from the reforms are complex and confusing
- absence of system leadership is increasingly problematic when the NHS needs to undertake major service changes
- Care Act has created a legal framework for introducing a fairer system of funding of long-term care.

My emphasis.


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 4:20 pm 
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b ... t-09012018


From about 9 mins.


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 4:42 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Kelly Tolhurst on Newsnight yesterday - anybody seen it?

Apparently "car crash" does not cover it, "major motorway pile up" might be more apposite :D

She was hopeless, yes. Evan Davis seemed to take pity on her, didn't press the point, which was, what are you going to do about the NHS crisis.

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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 4:44 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Kings Fund 2015

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publicatio ... government

nhs-under-coalition-government
Quote:
Key findings

This report concludes that the:
- coalition government’s reforms have resulted in greater marketisation of the NHS but that claims of mass privatisation are exaggerated
- reforms have resulted in top-down reorganisation of the NHS and this has been distracting and damaging
- new systems of governance and accountability resulting from the reforms are complex and confusing
- absence of system leadership is increasingly problematic when the NHS needs to undertake major service changes
- Care Act has created a legal framework for introducing a fairer system of funding of long-term care.

My emphasis.

There were some wonderful diagrams doing the rounds at the time, of the NHS organisation before and after, Lansley added about 3 layers of management and nobody understood it. Bonfire of the quangos, indeed.

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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 4:50 pm 
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Good-evening, everyone
the sun went down & I came back


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 4:56 pm 
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Oh dear...

Toby Young - The REAL Reason He Went

http://zelo-street.blogspot.co.uk/2018/01/toby-young-real-reason-he-went.html

Quote:
What Tobes knew, but many of his cheerleaders clearly did not, was that the contents of the latest Private Eye magazine (#1461, on sale at all good news outlets for just £2.00, and the story is on Page 11) would become known as Tuesday wore on. Those contents include the observation “Last year Young was invited by psychologist James Thompson to attend a secretive conference at UCL called the London Conference on Intelligence”.

Tobes himself recalled “Attendees were only told the venue at the last minute … and asked not to share the information”. The reasons can be found in an article at London Student, which tells “A eugenics conference held annually at University College London by an honorary professor, the London Conference on Intelligence, is dominated by a secretive group of white supremacists with neo-Nazi links”. Oh dear, Tobes!


Did he not think "Wait. This is all a bit odd. Maybe not a great idea to speak at this"?

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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 5:01 pm 
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Tubby Isaacs wrote:
I was thinking more of the Major (and New Labour) structure.

See my post just before yours, although I'm no expert.

To expand a little, Major brought in GP fundholding which was voluntary, think postcode lottery. New Labour started Primary Care Groups which eventually became PCTs, the problem was the original groups were too small so there were no economies of scale, particularly re administration. Eventually they evolved to the point where they matched one or more LA boundaries, this is where benefits started to arise because the social care teams could then build up relationships with the PCT
'After these changes, about 70 per cent of PCTs were coterminous with local authorities having social service responsibilities, which facilitated joint planning' - wikipedia.
Then Lansley tore it all up.

edit - PTO

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Last edited by gilsey on Wed 10 Jan, 2018 5:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jan, 2018 5:02 pm 
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Thanks to Gilsey and Paul. With read.


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