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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 7:11 am 
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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 7:44 am 
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Jeremy Corbyn WILL let trains sell the Daily Mail once he renationalises the railways, his official spokesman declared today.

The Labour leader refused to take the same view as Virgin Trains, which has sparked a furious debate after withdrawing the right-wing newspaper from sale.

Instead his team boasted "a hundred flowers will bloom!" - but they notably stopped short of demanding Virgin re-stock the publication.


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/j ... y-11829308

Did a Labour spokesman seriously say that bit in bold? I don't find it at all appropriate. And although it's right to defend the freedom of the press, I really don't think Labour need to go out of their way to champion the Daily Mail. They need to get a better spokesman.

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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 8:22 am 
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Willow904 wrote:
Quote:
Jeremy Corbyn WILL let trains sell the Daily Mail once he renationalises the railways, his official spokesman declared today.

The Labour leader refused to take the same view as Virgin Trains, which has sparked a furious debate after withdrawing the right-wing newspaper from sale.

Instead his team boasted "a hundred flowers will bloom!" - but they notably stopped short of demanding Virgin re-stock the publication.


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/j ... y-11829308

Did a Labour spokesman seriously say that bit in bold? I don't find it at all appropriate. And although it's right to defend the freedom of the press, I really don't think Labour need to go out of their way to champion the Daily Mail. They need to get a better spokesman.


Than Seumas'? Surely hard to improve.

It is quite easy to judge Corbyn by who he surrounds himself with (they're not a diverse group).


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 8:25 am 
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V good on fiscal transfers

https://chokkablog.blogspot.co.uk/2018/ ... s.html?m=1


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 8:44 am 
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I think the Labour spokesperson had their tongue pretty firmly in cheek. It made me laugh :lol:

Morning!


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 8:51 am 
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If you want a demonstration of utter denial, look at those on Twitter calling Sadiq Khan everything under the sun because he's published an impact assessment on Brexit.


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 9:06 am 
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Morning.

Can't be long before the NSN decide having that having a eugenicist as their CEO is a bit off now after yesterday's revelation about him being at a secret conference with decidedly dodgy people.

http://www.fulbright.org.uk/news/resignation-from-the-commission

Quote:
Toby Young got in touch shortly after resigning from the Office for Students to let me know that he’d like to stand down from the Fulbright Commission as well so he can concentrate on his work with free schools. I accepted his resignation, which I believe to be in the best interests of the Fulbright programme. At the same time, my Commission colleagues and I recognise the positive contribution Toby made to the Commission's work since his appointment in 2013.


Apparently Mrs Gove called his resignation from the OfS a "tragedy" - words lose all meaning with this sort.

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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 9:07 am 
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Good morfternoon.


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 9:23 am 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
I think the Labour spokesperson had their tongue pretty firmly in cheek. It made me laugh :lol:

Morning!


Using the Virgin/Daily Mail row to plug Labour's rail policy was a good idea, I get what you're saying, but the Chairman Mao quote rather eclipsed the joke for me, I'm afraid. The history associated with it doesn't exactly lend itself to light hearted banter. I fail to understand what the spokesman meant by the reference and question their judgement in using it.

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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 9:25 am 
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Willow904 wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
I think the Labour spokesperson had their tongue pretty firmly in cheek. It made me laugh :lol:

Morning!


Using the Virgin/Daily Mail row to plug Labour's rail policy was a good idea, I get what you're saying, but the Chairman Mao quote rather eclipsed the joke for me, I'm afraid. The history associated with it doesn't exactly lend itself to light hearted banter. I fail to understand what the spokesman meant by the reference and question their judgement in using it.

Fair enough.


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 9:44 am 
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https://news.sky.com/story/amp/brexit-c ... ssion=true

Quote:
The impact assessments could infuriate the Government, which has insisted such information could undermine negotiations. It has both refused to release such information and also suggested that such analysis does not exist.


We know David Davis lied about the impact assessments, but we still can't be certain which was the lie. Its just as possible, perhaps even more likely, that they have detailed impact assessments, but prefer people thinking they haven't done any to people finding out what they contain. I hope Labour follow up hard on this, especially the need for reaching an agreement in order to secure an orderly transition period.

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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 10:05 am 
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Willow904 wrote:
https://news.sky.com/story/amp/brexit-could-see-uk-economy-lose-54bn-by-2030-sadiq-khans-impact-papers-warn-11203054?__twitter_impression=true

Quote:
The impact assessments could infuriate the Government, which has insisted such information could undermine negotiations. It has both refused to release such information and also suggested that such analysis does not exist.


We know David Davis lied about the impact assessments, but we still can't be certain which was the lie. Its just as possible, perhaps even more likely, that they have detailed impact assessments, but prefer people thinking they haven't done any to people finding out what they contain. I hope Labour follow up hard on this, especially the need for reaching an agreement in order to secure an orderly transition period.

Morning ! A bit from Peston "" Even the PM’s most senior colleagues aren’t trusted enough to see the Treasury’s cost-benefit analysis of different Brexit scenarios. So how can they decide which trade deal to negotiate? https://www.facebook.com/pestonitv/post ... 3832456352 …""

https://twitter.com/Peston


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 10:24 am 
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Well this is fun.

Tory minister goes to war with ex-No 10 aide over Justine Greening resignation

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/education/universities/news/91955/tory-minister-goes-war-ex-no-10-aide-over-justine-greening

Quote:
Frontbencher Jo Johnson told ex-Downing Street chief of staff Nick Timothy he was “so wrong” in his claims about the now ex-education secretary.

Mr Timothy had said Ms Greening was “unpopular with officials, she frustrated reformers, and she exasperated the Prime Minister”.


Timothy has already claimed that Greening was got at by The Blob. Yes, The Blob returns! Showing at your local cinema today...

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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 10:24 am 
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Light hearted quips about Stalin or Mao certainly aren't confined to the Corbynista tendency within Labour. I will just leave it at that.

(personally I have no problem with the judicious use of them from whatever source, but I do understand why others will disagree)


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 10:34 am 
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Quote:
Ian Dunt Retweeted

The Wright Stuff

Verified account

@5WrightStuff
28m28 minutes ago
More
EXCLUSIVE - Nigel Farage says "just maybe I’m reaching the point of thinking that we should have a second referendum on EU membership".

!

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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 10:37 am 
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Quote:
Nick Clegg: The Corbynite Left say my record in Government didn’t deserve a Knighthood – they’re wrong
Nick Clegg

(i)


https://inews.co.uk/opinion/nick-clegg-corbynite-left-say-record-government-didnt-deserve-knighthood-theyre-wrong/




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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 10:41 am 
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PorFavor wrote:
Quote:
Nick Clegg: The Corbynite Left say my record in Government didn’t deserve a Knighthood – they’re wrong
Nick Clegg




everyone on the centre, centre left and left and almost everyone on the right thinks that.

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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 10:46 am 
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Last night's headline...

Philip Hammond tells EU 'it takes two to tango' over future relationship
Quote:
Philip Hammond has accused European Union governments of failing to set out what future relationship they want with Britain, saying during a speech in Germany that “it takes two to tango.” At a conference in Berlin hosted by the newspaper Die Welt, the chancellor said negotiating partners have given “little, if any signal”, of how they want to work with Britain after the “implementation period” that will start in March 2019. “They say it takes two to tango. Both sides need to be clear about what they want from a future relationship,” he said.


More absolutely ludicrous nonsense, more fingers in ears 'we-are-not-listening' rubbish. The EU have been very very clear about what is possible. The UK still seems to think we can have trading relationships with the the EU which are better than the trading relationships EU states have with each other. We are ridiculous.

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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 10:54 am 
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Quote:
May says Conservatives have good record on the environment

In the nineteenth century it was Benjamin Disraeli’s Conservative government which passed the River Pollution Prevention Act, providing the first legal environmental protections for our waterways.

And David Cameron restored environmentalism to a central place in the Conservative agenda.(Politics Live, Guardian - my emphasis)


Ah, yes. The "green crap".

Theresa May, in her speech, presently waxing lyrical about children frolicking in wheat fields.


Edited - bold


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 11:05 am 
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Yep.

Quote:
Mike Cameron
‏@mikercameron
10m10 minutes ago
More Mike Cameron Retweeted PoliticsHome
Be aware the only reason Farage is doing this is to make himself seem relevant.


Said ages ago that as soon as the referendum was called, Farage and UKIP were finished whichever way it went - calling for a second one just extends their shelf-life.

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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 11:08 am 
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Quote:
Brexit: Nigel Farage says 'maybe' there should be a second referendum on EU membership

The ex-Ukip leader said 'my mind is actually changing on this' (i)


That's big news - Nigel Farage has a mind.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-nigel-farage-second-referendum-eu-membership-wright-stuff-video-ukip-maybe-leader-a8153106.html


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 11:11 am 
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PorFavor wrote:
Quote:
Brexit: Nigel Farage says 'maybe' there should be a second referendum on EU membership

The ex-Ukip leader said 'my mind is actually changing on this' (i)


That's big news - Nigel Farage has a mind.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-nigel-farage-second-referendum-eu-membership-wright-stuff-video-ukip-maybe-leader-a8153106.html


In some other reality (because - whilst I'm bound to be wrong - I can't imagine it happening here) I look forward to a second referendum delivering a fairly decisive victory for remain but with a significantly lower turnout, so the argument becomes that many more people have still voted to leave, and we wend our way towards a third referendum...

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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 11:17 am 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Light hearted quips about Stalin or Mao certainly aren't confined to the Corbynista tendency within Labour. I will just leave it at that.

(personally I have no problem with the judicious use of them from whatever source, but I do understand why others will disagree)


The Mirror had to explain where the quote came from. A joke that needs explaining is never off to a good start. And although I get the reference is somehow trying to say something about free speech, I'm at a loss as to what. Mao's "blooms" didn't exactly get to flower very long, to put it delicately. So where's the joke?

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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 11:24 am 
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The Male Online....

https://twitter.com/barneyfarmer/status ... 0767101953

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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 11:24 am 
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adam wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
Quote:
Brexit: Nigel Farage says 'maybe' there should be a second referendum on EU membership

The ex-Ukip leader said 'my mind is actually changing on this' (i)


That's big news - Nigel Farage has a mind.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-nigel-farage-second-referendum-eu-membership-wright-stuff-video-ukip-maybe-leader-a8153106.html


In some other reality (because - whilst I'm bound to be wrong - I can't imagine it happening here) I look forward to a second referendum delivering a fairly decisive victory for remain but with a significantly lower turnout, so the argument becomes that many more people have still voted to leave, and we wend our way towards a third referendum...

1. Sadly, you're not bound to be wrong. You have a record of calling these things right, iirc.

2. It's very important that, should calls for a second ref seem to be gaining ground, we start calling it the third one. First was in 1975. I can live in hope.

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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 11:26 am 
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PorFavor wrote:
Quote:
May says Conservatives have good record on the environment

In the nineteenth century it was Benjamin Disraeli’s Conservative government which passed the River Pollution Prevention Act, providing the first legal environmental protections for our waterways.

And David Cameron restored environmentalism to a central place in the Conservative agenda.(Politics Live, Guardian - my emphasis)


Ah, yes. The "green crap".

Theresa May, in her speech, presently waxing lyrical about children frolicking in wheat fields.


Edited - bold

He did? That woman couldn't lie straight in bed.

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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 11:35 am 
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Looks like one of the reasons for the rehuffle was to enable this revolting rightwing policy

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/e ... ty-tuition


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 11:38 am 
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PorFavor wrote:
Quote:
Brexit: Nigel Farage says 'maybe' there should be a second referendum on EU membership

The ex-Ukip leader said 'my mind is actually changing on this' (i)


That's big news - Nigel Farage has a mind.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-nigel-farage-second-referendum-eu-membership-wright-stuff-video-ukip-maybe-leader-a8153106.html


What on earth did Steve Bannon say to him?!

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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 11:44 am 
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I know these kind of responses are so two-a-penny in politics that you stop registering them, but this one was so bad I had to share:

Quote:
Q: Why do most the plans you have announced refer to consumers having to change their conduct, not producers?

May says everyone has to play their part in improving the environment.


:wall:

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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 12:28 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
Quote:
Nick Clegg: The Corbynite Left say my record in Government didn’t deserve a Knighthood – they’re wrong
Nick Clegg

(i)


https://inews.co.uk/opinion/nick-clegg-corbynite-left-say-record-government-didnt-deserve-knighthood-theyre-wrong/




Even by his standards, exceptionally disingenuous and self-pitying.

And yesterday we had Farron back in the headlines, to the dismay of many in his own party even.

Uncle Vince would doubtless be tearing his hair out - if he still had any :)


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 1:07 pm 
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Any news on Philip Hammond's and David Davis's excursion yesterday? I haven't been able to find anything.


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 1:25 pm 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
Looks like one of the reasons for the rehuffle was to enable this revolting rightwing policy

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/e ... ty-tuition

You are a wag.


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 1:27 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
Quote:
May says Conservatives have good record on the environment

In the nineteenth century it was Benjamin Disraeli’s Conservative government which passed the River Pollution Prevention Act, providing the first legal environmental protections for our waterways.

And David Cameron restored environmentalism to a central place in the Conservative agenda.(Politics Live, Guardian - my emphasis)


Ah, yes. The "green crap".

Theresa May, in her speech, presently waxing lyrical about children frolicking in wheat fields.


Edited - bold

They want to preserve the environment so they can hunt and fish in it!


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 1:41 pm 
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Jeremy Corbyn from the G live blog:

Quote:
If you’ve got a car park full of ambulances with highly skilled paramedics and ambulance staff in the ambulance trying to treat the patient [who] ought to be in the hospital, but can’t go in because the A&E is full and there are no beds to move people on to, then down the line there’s a whole lot more people with chest pains, with strokes, who are not being treated because nobody can get to them. Very quickly you get into a pretty big disaster.


And that's pretty much where we're heading. Theresa May is trying to deflect criticism by blaming the Australian flu (is it just me or has it been hyped up in the media somewhat, the same media that accused Gordon Brown of overreacting to swine flu). Anyway, I hope she won't be able to get away with it. Waiting lists for routine operations were lengthening well before the first case of Australian flu was reported down under:

Quote:
New NHS data shows more than 409,000 people waited longer than the official 18-week target for non-urgent treatment in August, with hundreds languishing on waiting lists for more than a year.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 97461.html

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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 1:44 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
...And that's pretty much where we're heading. Theresa May is trying to deflect criticism by blaming the Australian flu (is it just me or has it been hyped up in the media somewhat, the same media that accused Gordon Brown of overreacting to swine flu). Anyway, I hope she won't be able to get away with it. Waiting lists for routine operations were lengthening well before the first case of Australian flu was reported down under.


Also Swine Flu was a genuinely exceptional situation whereas Australian flu is an exceptionally bad year of a regular situation.

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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 2:37 pm 
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adam wrote:
Last night's headline...

Philip Hammond tells EU 'it takes two to tango' over future relationship
Quote:
Philip Hammond has accused European Union governments of failing to set out what future relationship they want with Britain, saying during a speech in Germany that “it takes two to tango.” At a conference in Berlin hosted by the newspaper Die Welt, the chancellor said negotiating partners have given “little, if any signal”, of how they want to work with Britain after the “implementation period” that will start in March 2019. “They say it takes two to tango. Both sides need to be clear about what they want from a future relationship,” he said.


More absolutely ludicrous nonsense, more fingers in ears 'we-are-not-listening' rubbish. The EU have been very very clear about what is possible. The UK still seems to think we can have trading relationships with the the EU which are better than the trading relationships EU states have with each other. We are ridiculous.

I've occasionally thought that Hammond is trolling Davis & May. OK, I'll go along with what you say & we'll see how it works out.

He must surely know better.

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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 2:41 pm 
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adam wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
...And that's pretty much where we're heading. Theresa May is trying to deflect criticism by blaming the Australian flu (is it just me or has it been hyped up in the media somewhat, the same media that accused Gordon Brown of overreacting to swine flu). Anyway, I hope she won't be able to get away with it. Waiting lists for routine operations were lengthening well before the first case of Australian flu was reported down under.


Also Swine Flu was a genuinely exceptional situation whereas Australian flu is an exceptionally bad year of a regular situation.

The NHS isn't saying anything about more flu cases than usual for the time of year, nor are they saying people are rocking up to A&E when they don't need to, a common excuse in previous years.

They're just talking about more sick people, but we'll wait a long time to hear anyone in the MSM ask why there are more sick people.

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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 2:45 pm 
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Quote:
A senior Tory has called for the creation of a special tax to fund the NHS. Speaking on the BBC the former minister Nick Boles said national insurance should be increased and ring-fenced to fund the NHS. He said:
What I propose is what I call a square deal for the NHS whereby we give it a separate stand-alone funding basis; that we convert National Insurance, which people currently pay when they are employed, or self-employed, we convert it into National Health Insurance.


Could this be any more obvious as a first step towards an insurance based system?

Anyway, let's take it seriously for a moment and ask some questions. Why do the Tories need to tell themselves this or that pot of money is for the NHS? Why don't they just spend this or that money on the NHS if they believe that's what's needed? Or are they saying that if they propose an extra penny on income tax or NI to increase funding for the NHS that the public shouldn't believe them because they're a bunch of sociopathic liars? And if they are a bunch of sociopathic liars, why should anyone trust them to reform NHS funding?

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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 2:58 pm 
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Good afternoon

Re: Farage and the second referendum.......a wiley move from him and perhaps a mistake from the EU proponents to be so effusive in praise for him

If you look at his greatest fear - it is that the Government come back with the softest of Brexits - in the SM/CU but outside the EU - ie we have all the obligations but no impact on the rule-making. If you look at it from his point of view you may well see that both main parties (Tory and Labour) are heading for this - the Tories because of the commitments over NI and Labour because of the six tests. This decision could be made and still be complying with the referendum result

If that was the case - or even if we get anywhere near that - he will be quite happy to get back on his soapbox and shout that we are paying for the status quo but paying more money for it and having no say on the rules - he would love that opportunity

I think a referendum on that type of deal could well be very messy which is what he would like - he wants us to crash out so this is an opportunity to disrupt

He knows as well there is no appetite for a second referendum for a number of reasons - some good and some bad

Imagine that scenario where we had the Tories (and perhaps Labour) supporting this very soft Brexit vs People like me who would see that as a bad deal and want to Remain in vs those who want to leave on no deal

Can you imagine the splits that would occur everywhere in politics between these three - with the deadline rushing up ahead of us

Even if the first option won - he would guess that at some point people would get fed up of paying in but have no say on the rules.......and he could be back again relaunching UKIP!

He doesn't want a second referendum because he thinks it will be good for the pro-European cause

This may not actually come to pass but,as I said before, we have not been very good at predicting how people will actually vote at the ballot box recently have we?


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 2:58 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
Any news on Philip Hammond's and David Davis's excursion yesterday? I haven't been able to find anything.
I haven't either. Must have been awful for them.


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 2:58 pm 
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Good-afternoon, everyone


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 2:58 pm 
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gilsey wrote:
adam wrote:
Last night's headline...

Philip Hammond tells EU 'it takes two to tango' over future relationship
Quote:
Philip Hammond has accused European Union governments of failing to set out what future relationship they want with Britain, saying during a speech in Germany that “it takes two to tango.” At a conference in Berlin hosted by the newspaper Die Welt, the chancellor said negotiating partners have given “little, if any signal”, of how they want to work with Britain after the “implementation period” that will start in March 2019. “They say it takes two to tango. Both sides need to be clear about what they want from a future relationship,” he said.


More absolutely ludicrous nonsense, more fingers in ears 'we-are-not-listening' rubbish. The EU have been very very clear about what is possible. The UK still seems to think we can have trading relationships with the the EU which are better than the trading relationships EU states have with each other. We are ridiculous.

I've occasionally thought that Hammond is trolling Davis & May. OK, I'll go along with what you say & we'll see how it works out.

He must surely know better.


Far from implausible IMO.


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 3:03 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
I know these kind of responses are so two-a-penny in politics that you stop registering them, but this one was so bad I had to share:
Quote:
Q: Why do most the plans you have announced refer to consumers having to change their conduct, not producers?

May says everyone has to play their part in improving the environment.

:wall:

If we all didn't breathe so much, everything would be fine. We're just greedy breathers.


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 3:05 pm 
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Politics Live
Quote:
Pro-Europeans praise Nigel Farage for backing second Brexit referendum

Must they? Hasn't he caused enough trouble already?
Umunna, Brake & Adonis, in case you're wondering.

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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 3:06 pm 
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Yet more spectacular tin-earedness from the usual suspects.


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 3:16 pm 
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I think it's a silly idea, but it's the job of backbenchers and Lib Dems to fly kites.


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 3:18 pm 
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Image


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 3:50 pm 
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citizenJA wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
I know these kind of responses are so two-a-penny in politics that you stop registering them, but this one was so bad I had to share:
Quote:
Q: Why do most the plans you have announced refer to consumers having to change their conduct, not producers?

May says everyone has to play their part in improving the environment.

:wall:

If we all didn't breathe so much, everything would be fine. We're just greedy breathers.


The way I look at it:

It is down to the Government to use the levers it has to make producers limit unnecessary packaging
It is down to the producers to comply with the guidelines/laws set out but also to take their own responsibility in limiting the packaging
It is down to Government to provide facilities and means of recycling or disposing appropriately of any waste
It is down to the consumer to take the decision to avoid buying goods with too much unnecessary packaging and to dispose of their waste in the most environmentally snesible way
It is down to the Government to punish those that flagrantly ignore the rules

The order goes Reduce->Reuse->Recycle->Dispose


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 3:56 pm 
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@howsillyofme1
Correct, protecting the environment has to come from national government
(global leadership is required but that's another post)


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 3:58 pm 
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The irony of Chris Williamson, that barnstorming defender of anti-semitism, finally saying something I agree with

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... l-tax-call

and being sacked!

what a sorry state UK politics is in. Can we not reboot it and start again?


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