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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 4:00 pm 
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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... l-tax-call

Quote:
Chris Williamson quits Labour frontbench after 'double council tax' call


Who could have guessed he'd be a walking liability, eh?


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 4:01 pm 
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Labour is also expected to take the opportunity to bring on some of the MPs who joined the Commons in 2017, such as Laura Pidcock and Dan Carden.


Oh Christ.


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 4:02 pm 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
The irony of Chris Williamson, that barnstorming defender of anti-semitism, finally saying something I agree with

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... l-tax-call

and being sacked!

what a sorry state UK politics is in. Can we not reboot it and start again?


Sacked?

And you are calling him an anti-semite (hence racist)...I hope you have clear evidence for that accusation?

As a lawyer (????) you should be aware of the need for evidence rather than supposition, interpretation and insinuation


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 4:07 pm 
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https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/so ... williamson

In happier days

https://twitter.com/mocent0/status/951477999735660544


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 4:13 pm 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
The irony of Chris Williamson, that barnstorming defender of anti-semitism, finally saying something I agree with

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... l-tax-call

and being sacked!

what a sorry state UK politics is in. Can we not reboot it and start again?

Meanwhile Greens are down to 1% in the latest YouGov

Just saying....

Con = 40
Lab = 41
Lib = 9


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 4:16 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
The irony of Chris Williamson, that barnstorming defender of anti-semitism, finally saying something I agree with

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... l-tax-call

and being sacked!

what a sorry state UK politics is in. Can we not reboot it and start again?

Meanwhile Greens are down to 1% in the latest YouGov

Just saying....

Con = 40
Lab = 41
Lib = 9


It is very sad. Lucas has been great recently (though she is another "nationalise the railways and everything will be great" duffer. TBF her seat is in Brighton.)

I agree with Wes Streeting. Centrist Dads unite.


https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status ... 5062363136


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 4:25 pm 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
The irony of Chris Williamson, that barnstorming defender of anti-semitism, finally saying something I agree with

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... l-tax-call

and being sacked!

what a sorry state UK politics is in. Can we not reboot it and start again?

Meanwhile Greens are down to 1% in the latest YouGov

Just saying....

Con = 40
Lab = 41
Lib = 9


It is very sad. Lucas has been great recently (though she is another "nationalise the railways and everything will be great" duffer. TBF her seat is in Brighton.)

I agree with Wes Streeting. Centrist Dads unite.


https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status ... 5062363136

Muddled nudists interacted for new political movement (8, 4, 5)


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 4:26 pm 
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Lucas is hopeless on rail. Didn't even know franchises on the ECML paid the government.


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 4:33 pm 
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News on many different topics has been demoralising for me. Sometimes life becomes overwhelming and there's no shame admitting it's too much. Take care of yourself. Your health and well-being are treasures, don't take them for granted. Assuming you're not causing problems, go easy on yourself.

:rock:


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 4:36 pm 
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The sun went away some time ago
I'll put the kettle on


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 4:39 pm 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/social-affairs/discrimination/news/88558/jewish-group-urges-labour-sack-chris-williamson

In happier days

https://twitter.com/mocent0/status/951477999735660544


Quote:
"I absolutely did not and never would blame the victims of anti-semitism or any form or racism and bigotry," he said in a statement.
"Anti-semitism is utterly repugnant and a scourge on society, which is why I stand in absolute solidarity with anyone who is subjected to anti-semitic abuse.
"The point I was trying to make is that accusations have on occasions been used for factional or party political ends."

This is your evidence for him being anti-Semitic??


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 4:45 pm 
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Don't waste your time with Williamson. On one occasion, IIRC, he responded to a tweet about anti-Semitism with something about how bad Israel was. Stupid and crass. He can't even keep his mouth shut and keep off other people's brief.


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 4:50 pm 
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tinybgoat wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/social-affairs/discrimination/news/88558/jewish-group-urges-labour-sack-chris-williamson

In happier days

https://twitter.com/mocent0/status/951477999735660544


Quote:
"I absolutely did not and never would blame the victims of anti-semitism or any form or racism and bigotry," he said in a statement.
"Anti-semitism is utterly repugnant and a scourge on society, which is why I stand in absolute solidarity with anyone who is subjected to anti-semitic abuse.
"The point I was trying to make is that accusations have on occasions been used for factional or party political ends."

This is your evidence for him being anti-Semitic??



https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/chri ... d-1.443744

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/corb ... p-1.443661

I don't think he is an asset to the party.


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 5:02 pm 
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Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Don't waste your time with Williamson. On one occasion, IIRC, he responded to a tweet about anti-Semitism with something about how bad Israel was. Stupid and crass. He can't even keep his mouth shut and keep off other people's brief.

That, at least, does seem to be borne out by the evidence. ;)
edit: added an e, on reflection, probably borne not born.


Last edited by tinybgoat on Thu 11 Jan, 2018 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 5:06 pm 
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Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Don't waste your time with Williamson. On one occasion, IIRC, he responded to a tweet about anti-Semitism with something about how bad Israel was. Stupid and crass. He can't even keep his mouth shut and keep off other people's brief.


Can you provide a link please so I can judge for myself

So many accusations of anti-semitism have no basis and are based on the person's interpretation

I am ambivalent if he is there or not... His 'crimes' seem fairly innocuous compared to promoting someone who is presiding over the death of people in corridors

It was Hugo, no surprisingly, who raised this as a subject so only fair we are allowed to challenge his portrayal of someone as a racist


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 5:08 pm 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
tinybgoat wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/social-affairs/discrimination/news/88558/jewish-group-urges-labour-sack-chris-williamson

In happier days

https://twitter.com/mocent0/status/951477999735660544


Quote:
"I absolutely did not and never would blame the victims of anti-semitism or any form or racism and bigotry," he said in a statement.
"Anti-semitism is utterly repugnant and a scourge on society, which is why I stand in absolute solidarity with anyone who is subjected to anti-semitic abuse.
"The point I was trying to make is that accusations have on occasions been used for factional or party political ends."

This is your evidence for him being anti-Semitic??



https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/chri ... d-1.443744

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/corb ... p-1.443661

I don't think he is an asset to the party.


Is that it?

Ruth Smeeth?


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 5:08 pm 
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The funny thing is that the tax thing Williamson clodhopped all over is addressing something I want addressed- that we need tax rises starting fairly low down the scale to pay for what we need.

In the old days, of course, Labour in London would have considered very seriously a 20% rates rise to make up for central government cuts. But he's the wrong person even to fly this kite, whether on the backbenches or frontbench.


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 5:16 pm 
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It isn't quite how I remembered it. But crass and stupid certainly covers it. Don't bother with him. Walking liability.

http://everydayantisemitism.com/2016/02 ... -israelis/

Quote:
Former Labour MP for Derby North, Chris Williamson, has reacted to the exposure of rampant antisemitism at the Oxford University Labour Club by tweeting, “I hope they won’t find any such evidence. Did you see this [Channel 4] News item; brutal”.


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 5:21 pm 
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howsillyofme1 wrote:

Is that it?

Ruth Smeeth?


And which characteristic of Ruth Smeeth are you focusing on to suggest she lacks credibility on this question?


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 5:24 pm 
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Beating Roger to it.

https://www.tes.com/news/school-news/br ... ools-cover

Quote:
Ark reports £4m loss and relies on loans between its schools to cover deficits


I'm not sure I'd be happy as a parent at an ARK school that was cross subsidizing this empire building.


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 5:27 pm 
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Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Quote:
Labour is also expected to take the opportunity to bring on some of the MPs who joined the Commons in 2017, such as Laura Pidcock and Dan Carden.


Oh Christ.


Forget her political positioning just for a moment, Pidcock is clearly very talented.


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 5:31 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Quote:
Labour is also expected to take the opportunity to bring on some of the MPs who joined the Commons in 2017, such as Laura Pidcock and Dan Carden.


Oh Christ.


Forget her political positioning just for a moment, Pidcock is clearly very talented.


Nah.


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 5:38 pm 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:

Is that it?

Ruth Smeeth?


And which characteristic of Ruth Smeeth are you focusing on to suggest she lacks credibility on this question?



Are you calling me a anti-semite with that post?


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 5:39 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Quote:
Labour is also expected to take the opportunity to bring on some of the MPs who joined the Commons in 2017, such as Laura Pidcock and Dan Carden.


Oh Christ.


Forget her political positioning just for a moment, Pidcock is clearly very talented.


It's her Partridge among the farmers act with rail experts I object to.

She can wait and learn.


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 5:45 pm 
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Tubby Isaacs wrote:
It isn't quite how I remembered it. But crass and stupid certainly covers it. Don't bother with him. Walking liability.

http://everydayantisemitism.com/2016/02 ... -israelis/

Quote:
Former Labour MP for Derby North, Chris Williamson, has reacted to the exposure of rampant antisemitism at the Oxford University Labour Club by tweeting, “I hope they won’t find any such evidence. Did you see this [Channel 4] News item; brutal”.


Tubby,

I accept the crassness of some of his comments - but he is not the only Labour MP to which that applies and we just have to live with that

I have not defended him in my posts but what puts my back up is a return to these lazy comments around 'anti-semitism' which is to accuse people of racism. We have been here before and I am tired of it to be honest

There is definitely an anti-Israeli streak in the Labour party and I am happy to be part of that. I find the Israeli Government an appalling organisation - seemingly corrupt and a creator of instability in the region- and I think the comparison to apartheid South Africa is sometimes not without merit

The circumstances around the creation of the State of Israel are not without grounds for criticism either

I found Hugo's comment unacceptable and I also found his justification weak - crass and stupid I can accept but see no real evidence for being called racist

Also, in your link the person who wrote it spoke of 'rampant anti-semitism at OULC' - the report said no such thing and said there were some isolated cases that were badly handled

On this subject there is a lot of sensitivity and strong and polarised opinions - I would suggest that posters be very, very careful before they start throwing the term 'anti-semite' about

Just edited to add Toby, you and I have crossed swords on this before with a bit of toy throwing on my part - I just want to say I am not making any criticism of what you have posted here, challenged some of it yes but the tone has been fine


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 5:53 pm 
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Another example of a Government not treating protestors very well

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... yed-cities

Awaiting the cries for condemnation and frothing from the media (and some on here) with interest


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 6:19 pm 
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I'm inclined to share Heidi Alexander and Alison McGovern's scepticism over Farage's motives:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/ent ... ssion=true

Quote:
Why Would Nigel Farage Want A Second Referendum? To Leave Before The Reality Starts To Bite
Farage wants to put a final nail in the coffin now so that he can claim a majority for the most extreme form of Brexit imaginable

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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 6:23 pm 
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Quote:
EU to hold Britain to fishing quotas during Brexit transition

Exclusive: EU’s plan means UK would essentially be leaving common fisheries policy in name only after Brexit

The environment secretary reportedly told the cabinet in October that the quotas on every type of fish, from herring to crabs, lobsters and cold-water prawns, should be renegotiated with Norway and the EU before Brexit.

“We notice Gove hasn’t repeated that recently. Perhaps he has been reined in, because it isn’t going to happen,” said one EU diplomat. (Guardian)


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/11/eu-to-hold-britain-to-fishing-quotas-during-brexit-transition


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 6:25 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
I'm inclined to share Heidi Alexander and Alison McGovern's scepticism over Farage's motives:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/ent ... ssion=true

Quote:
Why Would Nigel Farage Want A Second Referendum? To Leave Before The Reality Starts To Bite
Farage wants to put a final nail in the coffin now so that he can claim a majority for the most extreme form of Brexit imaginable



Perhaps, but I am inclined to think that it is to sow chaos

If I was looking at it from his side, I would see the risk being that Brexit will be really soft and it gives him the chance to get on his hobby horse again

Most people on here look from the other side and see the risk as being hard Brexit but it depends how you interpret the motivation of the key actors

We now see May as a Hard Brexiteer (or in hock to them), he sees her as a Remainer (or in hock to them).

Who is right?

The last referendum was a binary choice with a vague explanation, another one would be based on far more information but is unlikely to be simplified down into a binary choice

We could end up with splits all over the place depending how it would be framed

Whatever, though it is still very unlikely we will see a second one


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 6:29 pm 
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Quote:
Also, in your link the person who wrote it spoke of 'rampant anti-semitism at OULC' - the report said no such thing and said there were some isolated cases that were badly handled

On this subject there is a lot of sensitivity and strong and polarised opinions - I would suggest that posters be very, very careful before they start throwing the term 'anti-semite' about

Just edited to add Toby, you and I have crossed swords on this before with a bit of toy throwing on my part - I just want to say I am not making any criticism of what you have posted here, challenged some of it yes but the tone has been fine


I was out of order with you too. Enjoying all our discussions now.

You're right, that source I cited likely has an agenda, but it's accurate on Williamson's (at best) gaffe there. I probably wouldn't call him an anti-Semite. I mean, he tweeted a fake Mandela quote- that's not very bright, because we'd have heard a lot about it before. But I do know a South African on another board- who did serious anti-Apartheid legwork- who thinks the comparison with Apartheid is worth making. I'm sure he'd have no truck with some the Anti-Semites that turn up in South African politics.


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 6:33 pm 
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https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/u ... -no-brexit

labour-keeping-all-brexit-options-open-including-no-brexit

George Eaton


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 6:37 pm 
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As so often Norman Geras got it right when discussing whether opposing Israel was necessarily anti-Semitic. (You only need to read the first few paragraphs).

http://normblog.typepad.com/normblog/20 ... -more.html


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 6:39 pm 
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howsillyofme1 wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
I'm inclined to share Heidi Alexander and Alison McGovern's scepticism over Farage's motives:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/ent ... ssion=true

Quote:
Why Would Nigel Farage Want A Second Referendum? To Leave Before The Reality Starts To Bite
Farage wants to put a final nail in the coffin now so that he can claim a majority for the most extreme form of Brexit imaginable



Perhaps, but I am inclined to think that it is to sow chaos

If I was looking at it from his side, I would see the risk being that Brexit will be really soft and it gives him the chance to get on his hobby horse again

Most people on here look from the other side and see the risk as being hard Brexit but it depends how you interpret the motivation of the key actors

We now see May as a Hard Brexiteer (or in hock to them), he sees her as a Remainer (or in hock to them).

Who is right?

The last referendum was a binary choice with a vague explanation, another one would be based on far more information but is unlikely to be simplified down into a binary choice

We could end up with splits all over the place depending how it would be framed

Whatever, though it is still very unlikely we will see a second one



I certainly wouldn't be influenced by Nigel Farage on the timing of any "second" referendum. Leave him to stew in his obscurity - he would only advocate a second vote at a time that he thought the "Outers" were likely to win it. And it would be a grave mistake to be seen to be backing him up, in any case. I'd have thought that should be obvious.


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 7:07 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:


Perhaps, but I am inclined to think that it is to sow chaos

If I was looking at it from his side, I would see the risk being that Brexit will be really soft and it gives him the chance to get on his hobby horse again

Most people on here look from the other side and see the risk as being hard Brexit but it depends how you interpret the motivation of the key actors

We now see May as a Hard Brexiteer (or in hock to them), he sees her as a Remainer (or in hock to them).

Who is right?

The last referendum was a binary choice with a vague explanation, another one would be based on far more information but is unlikely to be simplified down into a binary choice

We could end up with splits all over the place depending how it would be framed

Whatever, though it is still very unlikely we will see a second one



I certainly wouldn't be influenced by Nigel Farage on the timing of any "second" referendum. Leave him to stew in his obscurity - he would only advocate a second vote at a time that he thought the "Outers" were likely to win it. And it would be a grave mistake to be seen to be backing him up, in any case. I'd have thought that should be obvious.


I still wonder if the extreme Brexiters were banking on a domino effect with EU unity collapsing and a prospect of further countries following the UK's lead. Being stuck outside a strong, confident EU with all the cards and a willingness to play them maybe not quite what they had in mind. The truth is, the timing of invoking article 50 was the only card the UK had. It could have been used to better prepare by genuine politicians, or to undermine and destabilise the EU by the likes of Farage. As things strand, we have no leverage. May has, to date, caved on every red line and EU demand, because she has no alternative. However you read it, to me the reappearance of Farage suggests things are not going as planned. And I still want to know what Bannon said to him.....

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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 7:11 pm 
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Good vid 'ere !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLZw1_8eqbw



Begins on opaque / anonymous donations to political causes , such as Koch brothers to Citizens United , or any foreign Power that can do likewise for that matter ...

13 minutes in -- In late 2015 British Intellgence became aware of suspicious interaction between Trump campaign advisers and Russian Intelligence agents

In early 2016 multiple European intel agencies passsed on similar information

then the Australians !

<b>"Steele is a leading Russia expert .... (since decades, respected, trusted )

and later , at 19.30 minuites, the Steele dossier was taken seriously because it corroborated the other sources " </b>

Papadopoulos .

THEN, concerted action by the GOP to undermine Steele, but that was completely fake, nothing to do with facts outlined.above .

Concludes by restating the need for transparency .

Not much hope in the short term, but good to know some are fighting for it !


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 7:12 pm 
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woops !


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 7:14 pm 
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There are no Brexiteers on here and I think we should be careful of assuming what they want....I think we may be underestimating the concern they have that May will sell them out and if you take that Withdrawal Agreement at face value and judge how it can be delivered (similarly it Labour's 6 tests) then you could possibly agree with them

As you say Willow she has caved in on every demand so it is not surprising Farage will be crawling about - and to be honest I think the second referendum call is not a stupid position for him to take


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 7:18 pm 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
As so often Norman Geras got it right when discussing whether opposing Israel was necessarily anti-Semitic. (You only need to read the first few paragraphs).

http://normblog.typepad.com/normblog/20 ... -more.html



I don't know what your agenda is here - well I think I do but I have promised to behave better in my responses

The article is not really very helpful in the discussion and I have some issues with it but I do not see you as someone who I can have a productive debate with on such a subject.

I even fell out with Tubby over this as it is such a sensitive subject and he is a much more credible and capable person than you are

You have insinuated anti-semitism, you have tried to provoke and with no interest in really discussing a very interesting and politically important subject

I will debate Israel and my views on it with sensible people but not you


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 7:25 pm 
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howsillyofme1 wrote:
There are no Brexiteers on here and I think we should be careful of assuming what they want....I think we may be underestimating the concern they have that May will sell them out and if you take that Withdrawal Agreement at face value and judge how it can be delivered (similarly it Labour's 6 tests) then you could possibly agree with them

As you say Willow she has caved in on every demand so it is not surprising Farage will be crawling about - and to be honest I think the second referendum call is not a stupid position for him to take


Exactly. Which is why "remainers" shouldn't be so keen to welcome it. Or to give him the opportunity to cast himself (as he will, ably abetted by the press and the BBC) to be the "lead" character.

Chuka Umunna et al are not being very clever about this.



Edited to add -

I might have to think about de-rehabilitating Andrew Adonis if he keeps it up!


Last edited by PorFavor on Thu 11 Jan, 2018 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 7:28 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
There are no Brexiteers on here and I think we should be careful of assuming what they want....I think we may be underestimating the concern they have that May will sell them out and if you take that Withdrawal Agreement at face value and judge how it can be delivered (similarly it Labour's 6 tests) then you could possibly agree with them

As you say Willow she has caved in on every demand so it is not surprising Farage will be crawling about - and to be honest I think the second referendum call is not a stupid position for him to take


Exactly. Which is why "remainers" shouldn't be so keen to welcome it. Or to give him the opportunity to cast himself (as he will, ably abetted by the press and the BBC) to be the "lead" character.

Chuka Umunna et al are not being very clever about this.



Absolutely


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 7:34 pm 
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To be fair to them PF they are looking at it from their point of view that sees a second referendum as being a way to stop Brexit.....I cannot be too pissed off with them because of that

The problem then comes down to what a second referendum will look like and what could happen....Farage is not stupid (no matter how he acts) and he is making the calculation, I think, that it will be a mess and lead to a lot of disruption that will enable him to portray himself as a saviour and help supplement his dwindling cash reserves

For him, in or out doesn't matter - he will be okay financially

We are fortunate we find it difficult to get inside his head.....if we could then I would worry more.


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 7:42 pm 
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howsillyofme1 wrote:
To be fair to them PF they are looking at it from their point of view that sees a second referendum as being a way to stop Brexit.....I cannot be too pissed off with them because of that

The problem then comes down to what a second referendum will look like and what could happen....Farage is not stupid (no matter how he acts) and he is making the calculation, I think, that it will be a mess and lead to a lot of disruption that will enable him to portray himself as a saviour and help supplement his dwindling cash reserves

For him, in or out doesn't matter - he will be okay financially

We are fortunate we find it difficult to get inside his head.....if we could then I would worry more.


Yes - but with Nigel Farage as the (self-appointed) figurehead and prime mover, the outcome
is not so likely to be the one that they would prefer. He (and Ukip) will turn it into a vindication mission - and could well succeed, if the timing is allowed to be influenced by "Outers". That's why "Remainers" should give Nigel Farage's "change of mind" the cold shoulder. Ignore him - and not treat him as if he's relevant to the present situation.


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 7:47 pm 
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howsillyofme1 wrote:
To be fair to them PF they are looking at it from their point of view that sees a second referendum as being a way to stop Brexit.....I cannot be too pissed off with them because of that

The problem then comes down to what a second referendum will look like and what could happen....Farage is not stupid (no matter how he acts) and he is making the calculation, I think, that it will be a mess and lead to a lot of disruption that will enable him to portray himself as a saviour and help supplement his dwindling cash reserves

For him, in or out doesn't matter - he will be okay financially

We are fortunate we find it difficult to get inside his head.....if we could then I would worry more.

Carrying out another referendum on the basis that the winner may only have 50% + one vote would be as stupid as last time, whatever the result .
Scenario of the two main parties splitting is a nightmare !


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 7:55 pm 
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Quote:
Farage's call for second Brexit vote greeted with glee by remainers

Pro-EU campaigners back former Ukip leader’s suggestion of second referendum to ‘kill off’ issue for a generation (Guardian - on-line front page headline)


They're being very foolish, in my opinion.

I can see it now, "Come on, let's show them who's boss!" It would be even more poisonous than the last time.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/11/nigel-farage-backs-fresh-brexit-referendum-to-kill-off-issue


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 7:57 pm 
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frog222 wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
To be fair to them PF they are looking at it from their point of view that sees a second referendum as being a way to stop Brexit.....I cannot be too pissed off with them because of that

The problem then comes down to what a second referendum will look like and what could happen....Farage is not stupid (no matter how he acts) and he is making the calculation, I think, that it will be a mess and lead to a lot of disruption that will enable him to portray himself as a saviour and help supplement his dwindling cash reserves

For him, in or out doesn't matter - he will be okay financially

We are fortunate we find it difficult to get inside his head.....if we could then I would worry more.

Carrying out another referendum on the basis that the winner may only have 50% + one vote would be as stupid as last time, whatever the result .
Scenario of the two main parties splitting is a nightmare !



There isn't time for another referendum now. We triggered art 50, we're out. It is all about Farage ignore it.


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 8:02 pm 
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The Tory tactic for the next election becoming clear.

1. Animals. This should not be underestimated. Foxes and ivory cost them. Gove with his plastics announcements is trying to reposition them on the environment.

2. Universities. Shifting the centrist Greening and Johnson to replace them with rightwingers prepared to make a great big gift to the middle classes of free tuition. It is shameful that Labour has given them the space to pursue this regressive policy, but there we are.

Could it work? Touch and go. They need something on housing, and they have no policy at all. Labour's policy is empty, but Corbyn, as on so many areas, is trusted to do something radical, even if the substantive proposals are missing.

If they can ditch May, get the economy moving a bit, and do something on housing they might pull it off. Looks unlikely though. I find it hard to believe they could win, but they won in 2015, and the Corbyn effect won't last forever.


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 8:08 pm 
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 53636.html

Arron Wags

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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 8:10 pm 
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Half a million jobs.
But nostalgic post Empire Imperialists.

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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 8:13 pm 
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One for PF:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/uk- ... 51966.html

Expect the Unexpected


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PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan, 2018 8:24 pm 
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How many times will I fall over the planters,I put at the side (I always use the back entrance-titter ye not) before I remember when going in/out I put them there?Obviously I know now,but that's bloody useless.Maybe I should get a warning sign,but I would probably forget about that and walk straight into it.Of course I could just move them.




PTO.(without falling hopefully)


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