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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 7:09 am 
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Morning all.


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 7:54 am 
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Morning!

Kids off school today because of snow.

People on Twitter moaning about the feeble gritting. I wonder what party they voted for!


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 7:57 am 
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https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ns-economy

britain-zombie-elite-politicians-economy

Excellent piece by Aditya Chakrabortty


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 8:13 am 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/17/britain-zombie-elite-politicians-economy

britain-zombie-elite-politicians-economy

Excellent piece by Aditya Chakrabortty



I think Chakrabortty utterly hopeless. His suggestion (repeated here) that orthodox economics is bust, and that they have no solutions (repeated here) is just daft. Lots of economists have tried to explain it to him (a history graduate) but he doesn't get it

https://longandvariable.wordpress.com/2 ... economics/

I don't think the Guardian now employs any columnists worth reading, with the possible exception sometimes of Freedland (who is able). Polemical one-sided stuff like that enlightens nobody.


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 8:23 am 
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To be positive, look at this from the same paper

https://amp.theguardian.com/business/ni ... ssion=true

Actual journalism.


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 8:40 am 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
To be positive, look at this from the same paper

https://amp.theguardian.com/business/ni ... ssion=true

Actual journalism.

Thanks for this.

I believe both are good journalism, but in rather different styles.


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 8:45 am 
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Debbie Abrahams MP

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Why wasn't the Government on 'special watch' given the telling indicator that Carilion was paying sub-contractors so late? @BBCr4today So many of us highlighted these issues years ago. Where has the Govt been??!!


Well quite.


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 8:50 am 
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Science is about using observations to help define and test theories - those theories should allow us to explain the world around us, and predict the potential future outcomes

I do not really get the impression that economists do this particularly well......there have been many financial crashes and calumnies over the years....with 2008 being the most noticeable.

Is it hat economists are not able to actually predict things because the behavioural side is too complicated or is it because the economic world is so entwined with the political one that actually the 'scientific' part is subsumed by the political beliefs of the people involved

I have sympathy with them because I think that what they are trying to do is extremely difficult - macro vs micro -when involving such unpredictable entities as human beings

I remember reading Asimov and the use of 'psychohistory' to prect human behaviour in a similar way to how chemistry uses macro models to smooth out the variability of different behaviour at a micro scale - I think doing it with atoms and molécules is easier than people!

So in summary, economics is indivisible from politics so the accepted politics of the day will define what is seen as economic orthodoxy and influence will go the other way as well. It is different in this way to physics, chemistry and others (although we see Trump trying to do it with climate change and just being laughed at)


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 8:52 am 
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The Ben Bradley furore has rightly focused on the "eugenics" angle, but I found this quite revealing about the Tory mentality.
Quote:
Working as a landscaper and digging holes and having a bit of a miserable time and then kind of figuring out there were a lot of people doing not as much work as me and still seem to be enjoying themselves more than me. I’ve probably always been Conservative without really knowing, just on the basis I don’t think the Government should do everything for you. It’s about giving people the opportunity to sort themselves out.


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 8:57 am 
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howsillyofme1 wrote:
Science is about using observations to help define and test theories - those theories should allow us to explain the world around us, and predict the potential future outcomes

I do not really get the impression that economists do this particularly well......there have been many financial crashes and calumnies over the years....with 2008 being the most noticeable.

Is it hat economists are not able to actually predict things because the behavioural side is too complicated or is it because the economic world is so entwined with the political one that actually the 'scientific' part is subsumed by the political beliefs of the people involved

I have sympathy with them because I think that what they are trying to do is extremely difficult - macro vs micro -when involving such unpredictable entities as human beings

I remember reading Asimov and the use of 'psychohistory' to prect human behaviour in a similar way to how chemistry uses macro models to smooth out the variability of different behaviour at a micro scale - I think doing it with atoms and molécules is easier than people!

So in summary, economics is indivisible from politics so the accepted politics of the day will define what is seen as economic orthodoxy and influence will go the other way as well. It is different in this way to physics, chemistry and others (although we see Trump trying to do it with climate change and just being laughed at)

Yes. I'm no expert on economics, but I can see that an obsession with finding mathematical models of economies has, as indeed the Queen could spot, failed.

For me where economists are incredibly valuable is in trying to describe what they see. In fact Debbie Abrahams Tweet above is a very simple example of what I mean. This large multinational is paying late.


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 9:26 am 
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SpinningHugo wrote:

I don't think the Guardian now employs any columnists worth reading, with the possible exception sometimes of Freedland (who is able). Polemical one-sided stuff like that enlightens nobody.


Man who admitted that he loathed the paper doesn't rate any columnists on it.

Shocked etc.

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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 9:31 am 
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Talking to cleaning and maintenance staff here - their issue with future employment is that whilst some were on temporary recurring contracts, most were on permanent contracts with fixed hours, and often fairly decent hours - about half of the cleaning staff were on 30 hour a week contracts, with work pensions, which seems good for a cleaning job - their concern is that whoever comes in to take it over will demand zero hour contracts and no benefits. The other take-over possibility being mentioned is that another local contract cleaning company will take it on but will start over with their staff.

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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 9:36 am 
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adam wrote:
Talking to cleaning and maintenance staff here - their issue with future employment is that whilst some were on temporary recurring contracts, most were on permanent contracts with fixed hours, and often fairly decent hours - about half of the cleaning staff were on 30 hour a week contracts, with work pensions, which seems good for a cleaning job - their concern is that whoever comes in to take it over will demand zero hour contracts and no benefits. The other take-over possibility being mentioned is that another local contract cleaning company will take it on but will start over with their staff.

Seriously Adam get them to contact Debbie Abrahams.

She's obviously a busy person, but she is very strong on this stuff.


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 9:40 am 
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@LenMcCluskey1
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Tune in @BBC5Live at 10.30am if you can when I will be with @Emmabarnett talking #Carillion, emerging and growing concerns about #Interserve and what I want to hear from the government at #PMQs later today.


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 9:41 am 
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RogerOThornhill wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:

I don't think the Guardian now employs any columnists worth reading, with the possible exception sometimes of Freedland (who is able). Polemical one-sided stuff like that enlightens nobody.


Man who admitted that he loathed the paper doesn't rate any columnists on it.

Shocked etc.

I'm finding it increasingly difficult to follow Hugo's appreciation levels, where does "Utterly Hopeless" fit on the @Hugo Scale?
ie: for comparison how many Starmers is a Chakrabortty,
Is a flake better or worse than "Utterly Hopeless"?
how positive is "is able?
;)


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 9:45 am 
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TBF to Hugo the rest of us have our own scales.

That was a right Rentoul.

A real crock of White.

It's as bad as Kettle calling the pot black.

And of course the ultimate insult. You sound like Dan F****** Hodges!


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 9:53 am 
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Jonathan Portes
@jdportes
7m7 minutes ago
New @ONS analysis of the gender pay gap: https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlab ... er-pay-gap … Occupation and part-time/full-time status together "explain" 1/3, but vast majority not accounted for..


Jonathan Portes
@jdportes
2m2 minutes ago
...tomorrow, ONS ventures even further out of its comfort zone, and explains to us the difference between sex and gender https://www.ons.gov.uk/releases/whatist ... xandgender


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 10:09 am 
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Back to the economists point

If I look at may own field there are many subjects where there is no real contention over the basic science. If we take climate change you really have to go looking for people who now claim that anthropomorphic climate change isn't happening (although the BBC always seem to find them).

The data and the theories explaining it are no longer controversial. There can be a debate about what to do about it but that is a worthy debate to have

There is some science that is still a bit more open though - if I take one 'is organic food better for the planet than non-organic food?' - the data is out there but the interpretation is often linked to personal bias and there is no simple right or wrong answer. The prevailing political trend actually has a bit impact on how the data is interpreted. It is because it is actually not an easy thing to put your finger on and compare the results of the data. Depending on your outlook you can argue that different things have a different importance. The exposure one side gets can influence opinion and there is an 'orthodoxy' that exists

I feel the same thing is true of a lot of economics that actually the scientific basis is not fixed and so you can have two people arguing from completely different objectives with different theories and using the data completely differently to argue there point of view. There will be an orthodoxy that can promote one over the other, not based on the strength of the theory, but which view has the upper hand at the time. The problem is that it actually involves a lot of the decisions that most affect the policies we live under

So until around 1976-77 the economic orthodoxy was around what Bretton-Woods and Keynes was probably the most influential economist. Then after the mid 70s the orthodoxy changed and it was Hayek's ideas that have become the new otrthodoxy - the market knows best. Which is right? Is it dépendent on the society we live in and its complexity? Does the society we have define the economic orthodoxy we accept as right or the other way around? Is the same economic model equally applicable everywhere? If not how do we decide what to apply and where?

I never see anything so unproductive as watching economists debate. It is not with the passion of true politicians in a battle for ideas and being led by their values and an emotional sense of what is the right thing to do, and it is not the scientists who are looking for the theory that best explains the truth.

It seems to be Something in between and is generally unsatisfying


Last edited by howsillyofme1 on Wed 17 Jan, 2018 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 10:09 am 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
TBF to Hugo the rest of us have our own scales.

That was a right Rentoul.

A real crock of White.

It's as bad as Kettle calling the pot black.

And of course the ultimate insult. You sound like Dan F****** Hodges!



White is a terrible writer. Verbose, rambling.

Kettle is just boring.

Rentoul just doesn't share your views. He is very able indeed.

I am not quite shure what to make of Hodges. I think he was unfairly treated by Miliband, and that has left him scarred.


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 10:16 am 
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An amusing point I didn't notice last night. I must have been asleep Two links I gave were actually arguing the same thing.

This thread by Paul Mason, arguing that Corbynis outside the Labour tradition ("it starts with Gramsci..." : doesn't everything?)

https://twitter.com/paulmasonnews/statu ... 4131088387

Is also the thesis of Oliver Kamm here


https://capx.co/corbyns-labour-reaction ... -thuggish/

They both agree that this is completely new (ie different from Attless and so on) but one pproves the other disapproves.


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 10:16 am 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
TBF to Hugo the rest of us have our own scales.

That was a right Rentoul.

A real crock of White.

It's as bad as Kettle calling the pot black.

And of course the ultimate insult. You sound like Dan F****** Hodges!



White is a terrible writer. Verbose, rambling.

Kettle is just boring.

Rentoul just doesn't share your views. He is very able indeed.

I am not quite shure what to make of Hodges. I think he was unfairly treated by Miliband, and that has left him scarred.

I don't know about the very last point, but I pretty much agree with you here.


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 10:18 am 
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I think an indication of somebody taking a tongue in cheek comment as being a real debating issue

Lack of emotional intelligence perhaps?


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 10:18 am 
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https://evolvepolitics.com/shameless-to ... -expenses/

shameless-tory-mp-tried-claim-back-50-donation-local-hospice-expenses


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 10:21 am 
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howsillyofme1 wrote:
I think an indication of somebody taking a tongue in cheek comment as being a real debating issue

Lack of emotional intelligence perhaps?

Yes hardly a Birrell of laughs ;-)


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 11:13 am 
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Morning.

Britain is starting to feel like a backwater already:

http://www.irishnews.com/lifestyle/holi ... s441rif44T

Quote:
Ireland and Spain are to be linked by a direct ferry service for the first time.

The sailings will enable firms to bypass the UK when transporting freight between the two countries, which could be particularly useful after Brexit.

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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 11:35 am 
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Everyone really should follow Paul Mason on twitter. He is great.

Lots of revealing stuff about "elite interlopers" who have been the "deepstate representatives of Labour" of yesteryear. Opened my eyes I can tell you.

Finally we'll have some proper international socialism, breaking free of that traitor Attlee.

You have to give him his due, he really has read his Gramsci.


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 11:45 am 
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Mason is who he is. His observations frequently begin promisingly and then slide off into all sorts of weird tangents and non-sequiturs.

He still offers entertainment and variety.

Rentoul "very able"? Pshaw. Maybe he was 20 years ago, his biography of Blair was a genuinely good read and (interestingly, given JR's subsequent trajectory) not at all sycophantic. But for a long time he has been incurious and lazy, producing most of his stuff on autopilot. At least he isn't as personally nasty as Cohen, though.


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 12:07 pm 
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Do you know something Hugo, some of us read people like Mason to be entertained (occasionally), to find something to provoke a new way of thinking or to agree or disagree with

Journalists are not generally employed because they are more intelligent than us: it is often because they either know somebody in the business, produce polemics to a script defined by the proprietor or, occasionally, because they have experise in a particular area

The skills they need, ideally, are to have book of contacts and the capability to write in English - some better than others I may say

I very rarely, if ever, read the commentaries as the 'truth' - they are just one source of many that can be used to determine an opinion


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 12:17 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Mason is who he is. His observations frequently begin promisingly and then slide off into all sorts of weird tangents and non-sequiturs.

He still offers entertainment and variety.

Rentoul "very able"? Pshaw. Maybe he was 20 years ago, his biography of Blair was a genuinely good read and (interestingly, given JR's subsequent trajectory) not at all sycophantic. But for a long time he has been incurious and lazy, producing most of his stuff on autopilot. At least he isn't as personally nasty as Cohen, though.


Mason really does add to the gaiety of nations. CorbynSuperFan should retire as he can't rival him.


I think you're wrong about Rentoul, but then I would.


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 12:33 pm 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Mason is who he is. His observations frequently begin promisingly and then slide off into all sorts of weird tangents and non-sequiturs.

He still offers entertainment and variety.

Rentoul "very able"? Pshaw. Maybe he was 20 years ago, his biography of Blair was a genuinely good read and (interestingly, given JR's subsequent trajectory) not at all sycophantic. But for a long time he has been incurious and lazy, producing most of his stuff on autopilot. At least he isn't as personally nasty as Cohen, though.


Mason really does add to the gaiety of nations. CorbynSuperFan should retire as he can't rival him.


I think you're wrong about Rentoul, but then I would.



what does it matter what people think of them - they are only bloody journalists

Paul Mason has some interesting things to say on subjects he knows about better than I do but in his general comments I take with a pinch of salt. Rentoul...well I am not sure he knows nmuch more than I do on very much apart from being very close to some politicians

It is like Wren-Lewis, when he speaks on economics I assume he knows more than I do, when he ventures into politics then his opinion is not Worth that much more than ours

I wish some of these journalists, instead of writing lazy opinions on the age of the Labour leader that actually add no value to anything, would do some investigations into the corruption that is at the heart of our state

I cannot remember the last time I saw some actual investigative journalism going on in the newspapers.....some of the television reporters still do so, but the newspapers are very weak. They receive leaks sometimes but rarely go to the heart of the matter


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 12:37 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Mason is who he is. His observations frequently begin promisingly and then slide off into all sorts of weird tangents and non-sequiturs.

He still offers entertainment and variety.

Rentoul "very able"? Pshaw. Maybe he was 20 years ago, his biography of Blair was a genuinely good read and (interestingly, given JR's subsequent trajectory) not at all sycophantic. But for a long time he has been incurious and lazy, producing most of his stuff on autopilot. At least he isn't as personally nasty as Cohen, though.


Glad you said that about the Blair book. I liked it too.


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 12:49 pm 
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Good-afternoon, everyone


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 2:26 pm 
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https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... k-warn-mps


Care cuts could put patients' safety at risk, warn MPs


http://www.parliament.uk/business/commi ... hed-17-19/


Funding system failing people with continuing healthcare needs


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 2:33 pm 
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WTF is it about wrinkly hands?.


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 2:39 pm 
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https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... p-creation


Bus Services Act 2017: Advanced Quality Partnership creation


Last edited by HindleA on Wed 17 Jan, 2018 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 2:41 pm 
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Tubby Isaacs wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Mason is who he is. His observations frequently begin promisingly and then slide off into all sorts of weird tangents and non-sequiturs.

He still offers entertainment and variety.

Rentoul "very able"? Pshaw. Maybe he was 20 years ago, his biography of Blair was a genuinely good read and (interestingly, given JR's subsequent trajectory) not at all sycophantic. But for a long time he has been incurious and lazy, producing most of his stuff on autopilot. At least he isn't as personally nasty as Cohen, though.


Glad you said that about the Blair book. I liked it too.


Though it is strange that he has never updated it properly after the 2001 GE.


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 3:07 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
Morning.

Britain is starting to feel like a backwater already:

http://www.irishnews.com/lifestyle/holi ... s441rif44T

Quote:
Ireland and Spain are to be linked by a direct ferry service for the first time.

The sailings will enable firms to bypass the UK when transporting freight between the two countries, which could be particularly useful after Brexit.

Afternoon folks,
This ferry from Cork to Santander - does that mean I can ferry my camper to NI, drive freely across the open border to Eire and gaily onwards to Spain? Makes Schengen look a bit futile.


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 3:15 pm 
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The revised HoC boundary change proposals in Northern Ireland have been released - and, amazingly, they are *much* more favourable for the DUP than previously.

Is this a deliberate attempt by the BC in NI to save the proposals in the rest of the UK?

Though given that these changes are, in their own way, just as "gerrymandered" as before I highly doubt that is the end of it.


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 3:27 pm 
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55DegreesNorth wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
Morning.

Britain is starting to feel like a backwater already:

http://www.irishnews.com/lifestyle/holi ... s441rif44T

Quote:
Ireland and Spain are to be linked by a direct ferry service for the first time.

The sailings will enable firms to bypass the UK when transporting freight between the two countries, which could be particularly useful after Brexit.

Afternoon folks,
This ferry from Cork to Santander - does that mean I can ferry my camper to NI, drive freely across the open border to Eire and gaily onwards to Spain? Makes Schengen look a bit futile.

Well indeed. And in the unlikely event "hordes" of immigrants still want to come here, they can do the reverse!


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 3:28 pm 
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https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news ... 99623.html


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 3:42 pm 
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Missed PMQs today, but I am told May claimed something not totally dissimilar to "Carillion is Emily Thornberry's fault". Anyone actually see it?


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 4:01 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Missed PMQs today, but I am told May claimed something not totally dissimilar to "Carillion is Emily Thornberry's fault". Anyone actually see it?

Guido has had a go at Thornberry.

Turns out she went to present an Apprentice of the Year award at Carillion in her constituency a couple of years back and said how great it was to be there.

"She even wore their hat". As I pointed out on Twitter, this was hardly a surprise, since she was on their building site when the photo was taken!


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 4:20 pm 
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55DegreesNorth wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
Morning.

Britain is starting to feel like a backwater already:

http://www.irishnews.com/lifestyle/holi ... s441rif44T

Quote:
Ireland and Spain are to be linked by a direct ferry service for the first time.

The sailings will enable firms to bypass the UK when transporting freight between the two countries, which could be particularly useful after Brexit.

Afternoon folks,
This ferry from Cork to Santander - does that mean I can ferry my camper to NI, drive freely across the open border to Eire and gaily onwards to Spain? Makes Schengen look a bit futile.


"Invisible" border to Eire, I believe, rather than "open". Anyone without the correct visa in their blue passport will be detained by invisible border guards at the invisible border checkpoint via a super speedy invisible technological process yet to be invented that won't in any way hamper travel and trade between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland ;)

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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 4:24 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Missed PMQs today, but I am told May claimed something not totally dissimilar to "Carillion is Emily Thornberry's fault". Anyone actually see it?

Guido has had a go at Thornberry.

Turns out she went to present an Apprentice of the Year award at Carillion in her constituency a couple of years back and said how great it was to be there.

"She even wore their hat". As I pointed out on Twitter, this was hardly a surprise, since she was on their building site when the photo was taken!


You would never get the likes of George Osborne doing that. Obviously :D


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 4:42 pm 
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;-)


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 4:49 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Missed PMQs today, but I am told May claimed something not totally dissimilar to "Carillion is Emily Thornberry's fault". Anyone actually see it?

The other thing you missed was one of Corbyn's questions not really being a question, which got the Twitter trolls very excited :roll:


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 5:11 pm 
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Quote:
Britain’s biggest training provider successfully applied for a superinjunction that stopped official inspectors from passing on a critical report to the government, it has emerged. It allowed Learndirect, which is mostly funded by the Department for Education, to suppress a damning assessment of its training for four months, Ofsted’s chief inspector, Amanda Spielman, told the House of Commons public accounts committee.

The disclosure followed a National Audit Office report that concluded Learndirect was given special treatment by officials allowing it to retain its contracts for almost a year after a critical Ofsted report – far longer than the usual three-month termination period.

It comes as ministers have been left scrambling to explain how Carillion, the collapsed outsourcing firm, was allowed to continue applying for public money despite multiple warnings. The existence of the superinjunction was disclosed by Spielman in testimony described as “staggering” by the committee chair, Meg Hillier.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... ort-ofsted
Apologies if this has been posted and for the lengthy quote. Please do read the entire article. Learndirect's chief executive quotes alone are jaw-dropping.

I'm increasingly frightened for people and country. It's not just from reading this one article, it's more than that. The series of disclosures making their way into the news indicate people and organisations are seemingly operating above the law, getting away with breaking it.


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 5:29 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Missed PMQs today, but I am told May claimed something not totally dissimilar to "Carillion is Emily Thornberry's fault". Anyone actually see it?

The other thing you missed was one of Corbyn's questions not really being a question, which got the Twitter trolls very excited :roll:



The point of PMQs has ceased to be the responses, but is instead about creating shareable bites of Corbs for facebook. Good political strategy.


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 5:36 pm 
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Quote:
Sam Freedman‏
@Samfr
Follow Follow @Samfr
Re: Carillion. Not sure what makes people think a public sector that struggles with procurement would be great at delivery.Sam Freedman added,


I think lots of the public sector is OK at procurement, as it happens. I think TfL are good, and the Metro Mayors should deliver the expertise too.

But anyway- this was retweeted by Simon Wren Lewis. Is he worrying about the current debate?


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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2018 5:39 pm 
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tinybgoat wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:

I don't think the Guardian now employs any columnists worth reading, with the possible exception sometimes of Freedland (who is able). Polemical one-sided stuff like that enlightens nobody.


Man who admitted that he loathed the paper doesn't rate any columnists on it.

Shocked etc.

I'm finding it increasingly difficult to follow Hugo's appreciation levels, where does "Utterly Hopeless" fit on the @Hugo Scale?
ie: for comparison how many Starmers is a Chakrabortty,
Is a flake better or worse than "Utterly Hopeless"?
how positive is "is able?
;)

I'm up for exploring this (moving forward) - would give meaning where there currently is (more or less) none.

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