FlyTheNest

A haven
It is currently Sat 24 Feb, 2018 8:23 am

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.



Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 129 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun 21 Jan, 2018 3:32 pm 
Online
Site Admin

Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 6:27 pm
Posts: 5251
Has thanked: 1693 times
Been thanked: 8699 times
Willow904 wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
Brexit will never happen, according to the only analyst to call the last general election correctly

http://www.businessinsider.fr/uk/brexit ... s-2017-12/


He makes some good points.

Let's hope he's right again!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 21 Jan, 2018 3:36 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister
User avatar

Joined: Thu 11 Sep, 2014 11:22 am
Posts: 13928
Has thanked: 77710 times
Been thanked: 13143 times
tinyclanger2 wrote:
What is the point of being THAT cute?

complements its genius


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 21 Jan, 2018 3:42 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister

Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 8:26 pm
Posts: 6978
Has thanked: 697 times
Been thanked: 15304 times
Willow904 wrote:
With no UKIP, the Tories can betray their "little Englander" voters over Brexit safe in the knowledge they have nowhere else to go.

The article above suggesting no politician is going to be prepared to take the short to medium hit that going through with Brexit entails is already looking more likely if Ukip completely collapses.


Though of course there are again rumours of Farage/Banks launching "son of UKIP"........


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 21 Jan, 2018 3:50 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister
User avatar

Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 6:35 pm
Posts: 5851
Has thanked: 10499 times
Been thanked: 7246 times
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Enjoying the discussion here this morning.

It is surprising it's taken so long for the impact on business to come to the fore.

I hope we hear too from smaller, non-London based businesses too. That's probably what's really needed for the tide to turn.


What to do, though, if the tide turns and Jeremy Corbyn doesn't (I don't necessarily take the latter as a given)?

As things stand (ie we're leaving) I'd still vote Labour - but if things change, what then? I'm not convinced that, if Jeremy Corbyn sticks to what appears to be his fixed position, he wouldn't be voluntarily putting a future Labour Government in an avoidable financial danger zone whereby the changes he (and I) want to see are unaffordable (or much less affordable). Labour who want change but haven't got the money or somebody else (whoever that might be - but obviously not the Conservatives, although I can't speak for the greater electorate) who wants less change but at least would stand a better chance of achieving their aims (despite these being on a considerably smaller scale that those that I would like to see)?

Or is Jeremy Corbyn holding back because he believes that, once all the evidence is in, a dramatic change of position would be more effective than a gradual "thawing"?

Right - ramble over.

Edited to, hopefully, make it flow better

I don't claim to understand how Corbyn works any more than anyone else, but he is very wedded to the party making policy at Conference etc.

This is perhaps underestimated by observers. So, he may well feel that Labour has its policy as agreed by Conference, to respect the outcome of the Referendum and apply the six tests. Given there hasn't been a seismic shift in the situation since then, he may well feel that a change in policy awaits the next Conference.

I think we've got very used to what Laura K and the rest love so much, policy made and scrutinised in the TV studio, that we expect politicians like Corbyn to respond to every nuance of the situation and we pounce on every gaffe or discrepancy.

I'm not certain Corbyn's way of doing things is better, but I do think it's worth a try ;-)

So, to finally answer your question, I think if people want Corbyn to shift his position and turn with the tide they will need to be influencing their local CLPs, Conference delegates etc. This may well be happening. I haven't been near my branch for a while (for no particular reason).


This is the last agreement made on EU policy at Labour conference in 2016

"Unless the final settlement proves to be acceptable, then the option of retaining EU membership should be retained. The final settlement should therefore be subject to approval, through Parliament and potentially through a general election or referendum"

Although fringe groups held discussions about EU membership at conference 2017, no formal policy was adopted, therefore (as I understand it) 2016 agreement still stands until it's superseded by conference decision.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/labour-co ... -50-2016-9


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 21 Jan, 2018 3:55 pm 
Online
Site Admin

Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 6:27 pm
Posts: 5251
Has thanked: 1693 times
Been thanked: 8699 times
AngryAsWell wrote:
This is the last agreement made on EU policy at Labour conference in 2016

"Unless the final settlement proves to be acceptable, then the option of retaining EU membership should be retained. The final settlement should therefore be subject to approval, through Parliament and potentially through a general election or referendum"

Although fringe groups held discussions about EU membership at conference 2017, no formal policy was adopted, therefore (as I understand it) 2016 agreement still stands until it's superseded by conference decision.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/labour-co ... -50-2016-9

Yes. Thanks for the reminder. I think Corbyn and Starmer have both acted consistently within this, admittedly not amazingly clear, resolution.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 21 Jan, 2018 3:55 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister

Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 11:18 am
Posts: 9597
Has thanked: 18592 times
Been thanked: 17164 times
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
With no UKIP, the Tories can betray their "little Englander" voters over Brexit safe in the knowledge they have nowhere else to go.

The article above suggesting no politician is going to be prepared to take the short to medium hit that going through with Brexit entails is already looking more likely if Ukip completely collapses.


Though of course there are again rumours of Farage/Banks launching "son of UKIP"........


Or - for gender balance - (even the lyrics seem strangely appropriate)



Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 21 Jan, 2018 3:59 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister
User avatar

Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 1:40 pm
Posts: 4355
Has thanked: 9613 times
Been thanked: 10991 times
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
With no UKIP, the Tories can betray their "little Englander" voters over Brexit safe in the knowledge they have nowhere else to go.

The article above suggesting no politician is going to be prepared to take the short to medium hit that going through with Brexit entails is already looking more likely if Ukip completely collapses.


Though of course there are again rumours of Farage/Banks launching "son of UKIP"........


Well exactly, they need to keep the threat of punishment at the ballot box for any Brexit 'slippage' alive and credible and Ukip appears to be past its sell by date on that score.

Is Banks still being investigated by the electoral commission BTW?

_________________
“Find a nice, self sufficient hilltop, and fortify it.” - The Kraken Wakes


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 21 Jan, 2018 4:06 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister
User avatar

Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 6:35 pm
Posts: 5851
Has thanked: 10499 times
Been thanked: 7246 times
Brexit and Immigration: Squaring the circle
From Free movement to Fair movement
10 March, 2017 by Richard Corbett

https://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/brexi ... ng-circle/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 21 Jan, 2018 5:05 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister
User avatar

Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 1:40 pm
Posts: 4355
Has thanked: 9613 times
Been thanked: 10991 times
That guy leading Ukip just lost a vote of confidence according to twitter.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42767657

Edited to add BBC link confirming above.

_________________
“Find a nice, self sufficient hilltop, and fortify it.” - The Kraken Wakes


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 21 Jan, 2018 5:10 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister

Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 11:18 am
Posts: 9597
Has thanked: 18592 times
Been thanked: 17164 times
Willow904 wrote:
That guy leading Ukip just lost a vote of confidence according to twitter.


Thanks. The BBC News website has this (only) so far -

Quote:
UKIP's ruling body unanimously backs vote of no confidence in leader Henry Bolton


Still, it's nice when everybody agrees, isn't it?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 21 Jan, 2018 5:12 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister

Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 8:26 pm
Posts: 6978
Has thanked: 697 times
Been thanked: 15304 times
But they can't make him resign, so the clown car show could well continue for a while yet.

If he doesn't (and the signs are Bolton won't) it will go to a vote of the membership. Shades of Corbyn, save I doubt that he will be as successful.


Last edited by AnatolyKasparov on Sun 21 Jan, 2018 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 21 Jan, 2018 5:14 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister

Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:18 pm
Posts: 6734
Has thanked: 4153 times
Been thanked: 15633 times
They're staring into the abyss of becoming an utter irrelevance and have no real idea of where they go after Brexit. Their best hope of survival is that Brexit doesn't happen and they can keep going on the same basis as before.

_________________
FTN's supplier of tedious, pedantic education policy waffle; and Pedant-in-Chief generally.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 21 Jan, 2018 5:33 pm 
Online
Foreign Secretary

Joined: Mon 23 Feb, 2015 8:23 am
Posts: 1587
Has thanked: 11630 times
Been thanked: 3435 times
http://zelo-street.blogspot.co.ke/2018/ ... d.html?m=1
Zelo-street suggesting Ukip can't afford (financially, not politically) another leadership election.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 21 Jan, 2018 6:16 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister
User avatar

Joined: Thu 11 Sep, 2014 11:22 am
Posts: 13928
Has thanked: 77710 times
Been thanked: 13143 times
tinybgoat wrote:
http://zelo-street.blogspot.co.ke/2018/01/ukip-beginning-of-end.html?m=1
Zelo-street suggesting Ukip can't afford (financially, not politically) another leadership election.
Are Ukip likely to let fiscal deficits stop their show?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 21 Jan, 2018 7:57 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister
User avatar

Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 6:35 pm
Posts: 5851
Has thanked: 10499 times
Been thanked: 7246 times
The author of Article 50, Lord Kerr has predicted that there will be a second EU Referendum in the autumn.

Speaking to Alex Salmond Lord Kerr said: “The parliamentary row of the autumn will be when the government bring back an outline, a framework, of the terms they think they can get for a permanent settlement.

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/a ... in-autumn/

I've got this weird feeling that May will do a massive u-turn on brexit, surprise everyone and say it's impossible (or go for 2nd ref) and steal Labours thunder. Thus setting course to win next election.
Call me mad, but there you go.


Last edited by AngryAsWell on Sun 21 Jan, 2018 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 21 Jan, 2018 7:59 pm 
Offline
Minister of State

Joined: Sun 29 Nov, 2015 1:24 pm
Posts: 574
Has thanked: 2821 times
Been thanked: 1105 times
Mad :-) :-) ;-)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 21 Jan, 2018 8:15 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister
User avatar

Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 6:35 pm
Posts: 5851
Has thanked: 10499 times
Been thanked: 7246 times
Jo Maugham QC
‏Verified account

@JolyonMaugham
Jan 18
More
I write here on what the case in Amsterdam means for UK citizens resident in the EU - and for Europe. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... are_btn_tw

https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/statu ... 0530656256

Jo Maugham QC‏Verified account

Interesting paper by @wtworster of the Amsterdam Centre for International Law arguing that Brexit won't mean a loss of EU citizenship. https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm ... id=2920611

International Law Limitations on the Loss of EU Citizenship After Brexit

This article concludes that, perhaps counter-intuitively, UK nationals who have validly acquired EU citizenship should not necessarily lose their EU citizenship when the UK leaves the Union because these persons now have a direct legal bond with the Union that Brexit may not be able to disturb. In turn, these UK nationals should retain EU citizenship and the resulting residence rights in the EU.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm ... id=2920611


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 21 Jan, 2018 8:29 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister
User avatar

Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 8:18 pm
Posts: 6878
Has thanked: 7020 times
Been thanked: 11076 times
Attachment:
fuzzball-ltt.jpg
fuzzball-ltt.jpg [ 64.52 KiB | Viewed 341 times ]

_________________
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 21 Jan, 2018 8:34 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister

Joined: Mon 16 Feb, 2015 1:22 pm
Posts: 4196
Has thanked: 157 times
Been thanked: 2276 times
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
This is the last agreement made on EU policy at Labour conference in 2016

"Unless the final settlement proves to be acceptable, then the option of retaining EU membership should be retained. The final settlement should therefore be subject to approval, through Parliament and potentially through a general election or referendum"

Although fringe groups held discussions about EU membership at conference 2017, no formal policy was adopted, therefore (as I understand it) 2016 agreement still stands until it's superseded by conference decision.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/labour-co ... -50-2016-9

Yes. Thanks for the reminder. I think Corbyn and Starmer have both acted consistently within this, admittedly not amazingly clear, resolution.



Of course not. Conference's views have been completely ignored.

All this "give power to the members"stuff turned out to be absolute guff as soon as the members disagreed with Seamus.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 21 Jan, 2018 8:41 pm 
Online
First Secretary of State

Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 10:34 am
Posts: 3113
Has thanked: 852 times
Been thanked: 5416 times
SpinningHugo wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
This is the last agreement made on EU policy at Labour conference in 2016

"Unless the final settlement proves to be acceptable, then the option of retaining EU membership should be retained. The final settlement should therefore be subject to approval, through Parliament and potentially through a general election or referendum"

Although fringe groups held discussions about EU membership at conference 2017, no formal policy was adopted, therefore (as I understand it) 2016 agreement still stands until it's superseded by conference decision.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/labour-co ... -50-2016-9

Yes. Thanks for the reminder. I think Corbyn and Starmer have both acted consistently within this, admittedly not amazingly clear, resolution.



Of course not. Conference's views have been completely ignored.

All this "give power to the members"stuff turned out to be absolute guff as soon as the members disagreed with Seamus.


Do you think your opinion on Labour matters?

You are a neoliberal right winger whose views are 10 years out of date

I think it is a bit rich for a supporter of Blair to talk about members rights

We had none!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 21 Jan, 2018 8:46 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister
User avatar

Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 6:35 pm
Posts: 5851
Has thanked: 10499 times
Been thanked: 7246 times
Recipes GIFs

https://twitter.com/TheFoodDIY/status/9 ... 6652669954


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 21 Jan, 2018 8:50 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister
User avatar

Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 6:35 pm
Posts: 5851
Has thanked: 10499 times
Been thanked: 7246 times
Work Fails
@FailsWork

https://twitter.com/FailsWork/status/954345051366264833


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 21 Jan, 2018 9:05 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister
User avatar

Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 6:35 pm
Posts: 5851
Has thanked: 10499 times
Been thanked: 7246 times
Larry the Cat


@Number10cat
11m11 minutes ago
More
In my time at Downing Street I’ve seen off:
One Prime Minister
Two Labour leaders
Two Lib Dem leaders
Five UKIP leaders
And counting...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 21 Jan, 2018 9:30 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister

Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 11:18 am
Posts: 9597
Has thanked: 18592 times
Been thanked: 17164 times
Night night.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 21 Jan, 2018 9:37 pm 
Online
Site Admin

Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 6:27 pm
Posts: 5251
Has thanked: 1693 times
Been thanked: 8699 times
@AngelaRayner
1 hour ago
More
UKIP looks set to embark on yet another leadership contest, current leader gets a no confidence vote from UKIP NEC. Such a tedious saga, maybe UKIP could sell raffle tickets to their dwindling membership, the winner drawn could be leader for a few months then repeat the raffle?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 21 Jan, 2018 10:16 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister
User avatar

Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 6:35 pm
Posts: 5851
Has thanked: 10499 times
Been thanked: 7246 times
Tories accuse Labour of racism over tiered charges to hear Jeremy Corbyn speak in Loughborough
A row has broken out over how the cost of attending a party event

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/ ... er-1096236

Why do they let themselves open to this kind of thing? All they needed is a low income / unwaged rate, but no lets do it the hard way. :x


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 21 Jan, 2018 10:37 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister
User avatar

Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 6:35 pm
Posts: 5851
Has thanked: 10499 times
Been thanked: 7246 times
Margaret Thatcher 'wanted whites only South Africa' and 'xenophobia' was common at her cabinet meetings
A tempestuous Cabinet meeting in February 1990 reportedly led then-Foreign Secretary Douglas Hurd to exclaim: “Cabinet now consists of three items: Parliamentary Affairs, Home Affairs, and xenophobia."

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... y-11889262

I was just beginning to think well of her as well... :twisted:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 21 Jan, 2018 11:02 pm 
Online
Site Admin

Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 6:27 pm
Posts: 5251
Has thanked: 1693 times
Been thanked: 8699 times
AngryAsWell wrote:
Tories accuse Labour of racism over tiered charges to hear Jeremy Corbyn speak in Loughborough
A row has broken out over how the cost of attending a party event

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/ ... er-1096236

Why do they let themselves open to this kind of thing? All they needed is a low income / unwaged rate, but no lets do it the hard way. :x

I do get your point here, but I'd be wary of aligning with Cleverly's attacks.

This may not be the thing, but something needs to be done about BME representation. Remember all the grief Labour has had over all women short lists etc, but they are firmly on track to have 50:50 female:male in Parliament soon.

I suppose what I'm saying is what should they do instead to actively encourage BME people into politics?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 21 Jan, 2018 11:22 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister
User avatar

Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 6:35 pm
Posts: 5851
Has thanked: 10499 times
Been thanked: 7246 times
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
Tories accuse Labour of racism over tiered charges to hear Jeremy Corbyn speak in Loughborough
A row has broken out over how the cost of attending a party event

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/ ... er-1096236

Why do they let themselves open to this kind of thing? All they needed is a low income / unwaged rate, but no lets do it the hard way. :x

I do get your point here, but I'd be wary of aligning with Cleverly's attacks.

This may not be the thing, but something needs to be done about BME representation. Remember all the grief Labour has had over all women short lists etc, but they are firmly on track to have 50:50 female:male in Parliament soon.

I suppose what I'm saying is what should they do instead to actively encourage BME people into politics?


No way am I "aligning" with any tory !
In this case Labour admin are plain wrong, they could very easily have worded it "Are you BAME ? Are you LGBT? Are you White? Think politics has nothing to say for you? Come and hear what Labour has to say at a special First Time Attender rate of only (however much it is) rate."
They have enough anti jewish problems without inviting more.
Just my feeling on it.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 129 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], howsillyofme1, PaulfromYorkshire, tinybgoat and 27 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group