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Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 7:20 am
by refitman
Morning all.

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 7:23 am
by HindleA
Morning


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42747342" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 7:28 am
by HindleA
https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... in-my-home" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Bottom of the housing ladder: 'I feel like a squatter in my home'
Over 2 million people in the UK live in rented homes that actively damage their health

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 7:31 am
by HindleA
https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... -probation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


GPS offender tagging farce tied to privatised probation

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 7:55 am
by HindleA
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pete ... 90ea55913b" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Peter Lilley’s peerage in doubt after lobbying sting


"Peter Lilley may not get a peerage after he was one of the subjects of a Channel 4 programme "

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 7:56 am
by HindleA
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ing-to-act" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Carillion: MPs accuse pensions watchdog of failing to act


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42853895" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 8:22 am
by citizenJA
Good-morning, everyone

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 8:29 am
by HindleA
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... illion-frc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

KPMG to be investigated over Carillion auditing
Watchdog opens inquiry into accountancy firm’s role in collapse of construction giant

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 8:37 am
by PaulfromYorkshire
A lot of food for thought in the Lords' response to the EU Withdrawal Bill

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... tee-brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

eu-withdrawal-bill-major-rewrites-house-of-lords-committee-brexit

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 8:38 am
by PaulfromYorkshire
Labour is planning to support around 20 amendments in the Lords, meaning there is a real chance of government defeats with the support of crossbench and Lib Dem peers.

Top of its list of demands are: a role for parliament in the event of no deal; a vote for the UK parliament on the final deal ahead of the EU parliament; a time-limited transitional period on current terms; enhanced protection for EU-derived rights; further limitations on Henry VIII powers; and removing the government’s fixed Brexit day.

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 8:39 am
by citizenJA
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:A lot of food for thought in the Lords' response to the EU Withdrawal Bill

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... tee-brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

eu-withdrawal-bill-major-rewrites-house-of-lords-committee-brexit
"Peers say Brexit legislation is fundamentally flawed and risks undermining legal certainty"

No kidding

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 8:45 am
by PaulfromYorkshire
citizenJA wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:A lot of food for thought in the Lords' response to the EU Withdrawal Bill

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... tee-brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

eu-withdrawal-bill-major-rewrites-house-of-lords-committee-brexit
"Peers say Brexit legislation is fundamentally flawed and risks undermining legal certainty"

No kidding
And remembering that there is a possibility that the Lords could take the view that the Salisbury Convention does not apply in this Parliament and could refuse to pass the bill.

It seems plausible to me that they would do this (or threaten to) on a "constitutionally unacceptable" basis. Less so on an explicit pro-Remain ticket.

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 8:53 am
by SpinningHugo
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:A lot of food for thought in the Lords' response to the EU Withdrawal Bill

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... tee-brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

eu-withdrawal-bill-major-rewrites-house-of-lords-committee-brexit
"Peers say Brexit legislation is fundamentally flawed and risks undermining legal certainty"

No kidding
And remembering that there is a possibility that the Lords could take the view that the Salisbury Convention does not apply in this Parliament and could refuse to pass the bill.

It seems plausible to me that they would do this (or threaten to) on a "constitutionally unacceptable" basis. Less so on an explicit pro-Remain ticket.

And how would having no Bill passed be a good thing, considering that we leave the EU on 29 March 2019, because of art 50 voted for under a three line whip by Labour?

A Bill, looking very much like the current one in all important respects, will pass because there is now no choice. The amendments are just trivia.

[Sorry, I forgot, you are operating on the assumption that Labour has a cunning plan to stop Brexit.]

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 9:20 am
by RogerOThornhill
HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... illion-frc

KPMG to be investigated over Carillion auditing
Watchdog opens inquiry into accountancy firm’s role in collapse of construction giant
Clearly haven't learned the lessons of 2008...

We had a couple of trading companies in our group and in all the time I was there, I reckon there was a single auditor who really understood what was going on - and the management knew it as well. To their relief he was moved onto another audit the following year.

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 9:22 am
by PaulfromYorkshire
SpinningHugo wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:And remembering that there is a possibility that the Lords could take the view that the Salisbury Convention does not apply in this Parliament and could refuse to pass the bill.

It seems plausible to me that they would do this (or threaten to) on a "constitutionally unacceptable" basis. Less so on an explicit pro-Remain ticket.

And how would having no Bill passed be a good thing, considering that we leave the EU on 29 March 2019, because of art 50 voted for under a three line whip by Labour?

A Bill, looking very much like the current one in all important respects, will pass because there is now no choice. The amendments are just trivia.

[Sorry, I forgot, you are operating on the assumption that Labour has a cunning plan to stop Brexit.]
I don't think there's a cunning plan, just an approach that might land us there ;-)

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 9:35 am
by citizenJA
SpinningHugo wrote:---
[Sorry, I forgot, you are operating on the assumption that Labour has a cunning plan to stop Brexit.]
(cJA bold & edit)

Don't you ever presume to do others' thinking for them. You're unqualified. You're rude, you trespass upon others' personal boundaries and your posts are wholly unwelcome here.

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 9:58 am
by howsillyofme1
Morning

and how does the way Labour voted on article 50 make any difference to where we are now?

When we look back on this I am pretty certain that vote will not figure in the most critical events of the process - it could have done but the way the Tories voted meant it was always going to pass. An important event but not one that will be shown to have had any impact on the outcome - unless historians judge that by voting for, Labour was helped in the 2017 election (such extrapolations are dangerous though)

In order to have any impact on Brexit negotiations, this Tory Government has to fall. At the moment they are looking exceedingly unstable and these votes will do nothing to help their situation. A bill needs to pass and it will do, at some point.

From a political standpoint now though Labour need to be trying to inflict maximum damage on the Tories, without allowing fire to be turned on them

Politics is a dirty business unfortunately, especially under our archaic institutions

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 10:23 am
by PaulfromYorkshire
@CJA @HSOM Indeed.

And as I was saying, one of our very archaic institutions now moves centre stage in Brexit.

I'd love any links or thoughts about how the Lords are going to play this. Who are the key players in the Lords? How does the arithmetic look for Brexit in the Lords?

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 10:27 am
by PaulfromYorkshire
Angela Rayner on Twitter:

Theresa May to attempt to calm Tory Party civil war at Brexit 'war cabinet' meeting. Energy minister Claire Perry said hard Brexit supporters were 'swivel-eyed' and hell-bent on 'wrecking the economy' Tories are literally falling apart with infighting
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 82911.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 10:30 am
by RogerOThornhill
Image

How many months since the referendum and the government still doesn't actually know what it wants from the EU?

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 10:33 am
by PaulfromYorkshire
It is looking like :popcorn: time as we watch the Tories this week.

Didn't someone say May out of the country. Where is she?

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 10:53 am
by AnatolyKasparov
She is going to China, apparently. Can't see any possible problems with that in the present climate obviously ;)

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 10:58 am
by gilsey
Ann Pettifor


@AnnPettifor
3h3 hours ago
More
Weakest calendar year GDP data for 5 years, driven by slowdown in services output - @geofftily https://www.tuc.org.uk/blogs/weakest-gd ... ces-output" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
Incidentally, Pettifor is not a MMTist, she's a Keynesian.

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 11:02 am
by AnatolyKasparov
Even if she was the former, that wouldn't justify the sneeringly dismissive tone deployed by a poster here in recent days.

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 11:05 am
by howsillyofme1
I am a Taurus

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 11:20 am
by PorFavor
At some point today the cabinet’s key Brexit committee, the EU exit and trade (strategy and negotiations) sub-committee, is also holding another meeting to discuss what final Brexit outcome (“end state”) the UK actually wants. As yet, there is no agreement. (Politics Live, Guardian)
I can see the attraction of being in China . . .

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 12:13 pm
by SpinningHugo
gilsey wrote:
Ann Pettifor


@AnnPettifor
3h3 hours ago
More
Weakest calendar year GDP data for 5 years, driven by slowdown in services output - @geofftily https://www.tuc.org.uk/blogs/weakest-gd ... ces-output" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
Incidentally, Pettifor is not a MMTist, she's a Keynesian.
No she isn't. When she was on Labour's Council of Economic Advsiers she argued for using primarily fiscal policy even after the UK had left the zlb.

The majority (orthodox Keynesian) position was adopted of using monetary policy after that point.

This is described by Wren-Lewis (who is a Keynesian) on his blog somewhere, but I'd have to scan through all his posts to find it.

In all important respects, she is an MMT-er as she agrees with that tribe on most things.

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 12:21 pm
by howsillyofme1
Oh to be an expert of everything and be so arrogantly dismissive of people who do this as their profession

There is every right to disagree - I take a dim view of a lot of economists myself as I think their predictive ability is pretty unimpressive - but they know a lot more than I do, and am sure than you do.

Why don't you concentrate on your real profession? Whatever it is

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 12:21 pm
by SpinningHugo
Is there anyone serious advising McDonnell now on economics? Clearly the Council members are now considered anti-Corbynite Quislings, so who else has he recruited?

On googling, this is all I found, which fills me with gloom about the future.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/john ... -tsgdcxwmw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 12:25 pm
by howsillyofme1
SpinningHugo wrote:Is there anyone serious advising McDonnell now on economics? Clearly the Council members are now considered anti-Corbynite Quislings, so who else has he recruited?

On googling, this is all I found, which fills me with gloom about the future.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/john ... -tsgdcxwmw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Are you a Russian bot?

Can be the only other explanation for this type of crap post or this is clear trolling

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 12:29 pm
by RogerOThornhill
Image

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 12:31 pm
by tinybgoat
AnatolyKasparov wrote:She is going to China, apparently. Can't see any possible problems with that in the present climate obviously ;)
Nicky Morgan doesn't seem to be missing her:
https://www.conservativehome.com/thecol ... of-it.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Nicky Morgan: Perhaps the Prime Minister should have gone. But she didn’t. The Cabinet must now take a lead."
Of course, the Prime Minister should be leading the way on this and driving her Ministers to think big and bold. If nothing else it would cheer up and raise the spirits of the Conservative Party in Parliament and in the country. But if that isn’t going to happen, then Cabinet members have a duty, as the senior leaders in the governance of our country, to do it anyway – within the bounds of collective responsibility.

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 12:37 pm
by RogerOThornhill
"in due course" roughly translates as "haven't a bloody clue when though".

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 1:11 pm
by RogerOThornhill
Good piece by Freddie Whittaker on the role of rich businessmen in the education system.

The Presidents Club, David Meller, and the rise of the education philanthropist

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/e ... anthropist
Between 2011 and 2014, Meller also served as a director at the thinktank Policy Exchange, which was founded by the ex-education secretary Michael Gove. In 2013, Gove appointed Meller to the DfE’s board, and he was subsequently asked to chair the apprenticeship ambassador network, and later the apprenticeship delivery board, which was co-chaired by Nadhim Zahawi, the families and childrens minister who was also in attendence at the Presidents Club event.
Shocked etc.

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 1:13 pm
by RogerOThornhill
And before anyone pints this out...
He set up The Harefield Academy in 2005, becoming its lead sponsor and chair of governors. In 2008, he was approached by the Labour government and asked to sponsor a second school – The Bushey Academy – which opened in 2009 after its predecessor, a local authority-maintained school, failed.
:roll:

"Public sector reform"...

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 1:49 pm
by AnatolyKasparov
howsillyofme1 wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:Is there anyone serious advising McDonnell now on economics? Clearly the Council members are now considered anti-Corbynite Quislings, so who else has he recruited?

On googling, this is all I found, which fills me with gloom about the future.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/john ... -tsgdcxwmw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Are you a Russian bot?

Can be the only other explanation for this type of crap post or this is clear trolling
I thought that the "Russian bots" were pro-Corbyn, its hard to keep up with these things tbf ;)

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 2:14 pm
by SpinningHugo
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:Is there anyone serious advising McDonnell now on economics? Clearly the Council members are now considered anti-Corbynite Quislings, so who else has he recruited?

On googling, this is all I found, which fills me with gloom about the future.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/john ... -tsgdcxwmw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Are you a Russian bot?

Can be the only other explanation for this type of crap post or this is clear trolling
I thought that the "Russian bots" were pro-Corbyn, its hard to keep up with these things tbf ;)

The Russian bots tend to be pro-Assad and anti-EU. As a result the're very pro-Corbyn.

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 2:15 pm
by citizenJA
It's not for me to say someone's posts are not welcome here, please excuse me.

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 2:37 pm
by SpinningHugo
The Monday afternoon inner sanctum politburo is the most interesting fact here

https://www.newstatesman.com/2018/01/la ... tters-them" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 3:38 pm
by AnatolyKasparov
Actually, I thought the whole thing was a good read.

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 4:11 pm
by PaulfromYorkshire
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Actually, I thought the whole thing was a good read.
Me too.

I was expecting to find the phrase "inner sanctum politburo" somewhere but was disappointed :lol:

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 4:12 pm
by PaulfromYorkshire
Debbie Abrahams MP

Verified account

@Debbie_abrahams
10m10 minutes ago
More
In answer to my Written Parliamentary Question on #PIP regulations and back payments, the Minister says approximately 1.6 MILLION PIP claims will be reconsidered and she can provide no timetable for when this will happen. Read the answer in full here:
http://www.parliament.uk/business/publi ... 23/124308/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 5:13 pm
by howsillyofme1
I am not sure that it is unusual for party leaders to have a group of senior people around them to help them form strategy - in fact I would assume that they all do it to a lesser or greater extent

Obviously, some of those outside this will be annoyed but I don't find anything in that article startling

I am also bemused as the word 'skeptic' being now assumed to mean 'against'. For years someone like a Bill Cash has been described as Euroskeptic - he isn't, he is anti-EU

I find Corbyn more readily fits into the description of a skeptic - and in some ways it is a healthy approach. The EU has an internal market as a strong component and I am not a proponent of free market economics as has been the dogma for nigh on 40 years - that does not mean that I am anti-EU but, if asked, I will not claim that being in the EU does not create some problems. They are though outweighed by the benefits but I am skeptical about some parts

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 5:39 pm
by AnatolyKasparov
SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote: Are you a Russian bot?

Can be the only other explanation for this type of crap post or this is clear trolling
I thought that the "Russian bots" were pro-Corbyn, its hard to keep up with these things tbf ;)

The Russian bots tend to be pro-Assad and anti-EU. As a result the're very pro-Corbyn.
If you say so.

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 5:43 pm
by howsillyofme1
A cat has four legs, and so does a dog therefore a cat is a dog!

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 5:45 pm
by tinybgoat
https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/adam-r ... Brexit-erg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"MPs demand ‘urgent investigation’ into Cabinet ministers' support for hard-Brexit lobby group"
A number of Cabinet members appear to have breached the rules of government through their membership of a secretive hard-Brexit lobby group, now chaired by the outspoken government critic Jacob-Rees Mogg, openDemocracy can reveal today
.....and the SNP’s Deirdre Brock asking, “What kind of shameless opportunist would be supporting their colleagues in public while betraying them in private?”
.

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 5:58 pm
by citizenJA
A Tory

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 6:32 pm
by Tubby Isaacs
howsillyofme1 wrote:I am not sure that it is unusual for party leaders to have a group of senior people around them to help them form strategy - in fact I would assume that they all do it to a lesser or greater extent

Obviously, some of those outside this will be annoyed but I don't find anything in that article startling

I am also bemused as the word 'skeptic' being now assumed to mean 'against'. For years someone like a Bill Cash has been described as Euroskeptic - he isn't, he is anti-EU

I find Corbyn more readily fits into the description of a skeptic - and in some ways it is a healthy approach. The EU has an internal market as a strong component and I am not a proponent of free market economics as has been the dogma for nigh on 40 years - that does not mean that I am anti-EU but, if asked, I will not claim that being in the EU does not create some problems. They are though outweighed by the benefits but I am skeptical about some parts
The Eurozone is the bit to be skeptical about. Which is a bit of a problem!

The Single Market is good. See how it restricts the sort of bidding on freebies that US states do to big employers.

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 6:46 pm
by howsillyofme1
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:I am not sure that it is unusual for party leaders to have a group of senior people around them to help them form strategy - in fact I would assume that they all do it to a lesser or greater extent

Obviously, some of those outside this will be annoyed but I don't find anything in that article startling

I am also bemused as the word 'skeptic' being now assumed to mean 'against'. For years someone like a Bill Cash has been described as Euroskeptic - he isn't, he is anti-EU

I find Corbyn more readily fits into the description of a skeptic - and in some ways it is a healthy approach. The EU has an internal market as a strong component and I am not a proponent of free market economics as has been the dogma for nigh on 40 years - that does not mean that I am anti-EU but, if asked, I will not claim that being in the EU does not create some problems. They are though outweighed by the benefits but I am skeptical about some parts
The Eurozone is the bit to be skeptical about. Which is a bit of a problem!

The Single Market is good. See how it restricts the sort of bidding on freebies that US states do to big employers.

The Euro and its weaknesses are integral to how the internal market is really supposed to function though, and is one of the pillars envisaged but certain countries have treaty opt-outs or are fudging joining

I am happy to be pro-Euro skeptic. In but continue to reform and develop

I am not in the Clegg 'in ten years it will look the same' band of Europhiliacs

Re: Monday 29th January 2018

Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 7:30 pm
by frog222
In half an hour the MMT !

pto