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 Post subject: Monday 29th January 2018
PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 7:20 am 
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Morning all.


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 7:23 am 
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Morning


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42747342


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 7:28 am 
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https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... in-my-home


Bottom of the housing ladder: 'I feel like a squatter in my home'
Over 2 million people in the UK live in rented homes that actively damage their health


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 7:31 am 
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https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... -probation


GPS offender tagging farce tied to privatised probation


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 7:55 am 
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https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pete ... 90ea55913b


Peter Lilley’s peerage in doubt after lobbying sting


"Peter Lilley may not get a peerage after he was one of the subjects of a Channel 4 programme "


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 7:56 am 
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https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ing-to-act



Carillion: MPs accuse pensions watchdog of failing to act


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42853895


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 8:22 am 
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Good-morning, everyone


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 8:29 am 
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https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... illion-frc

KPMG to be investigated over Carillion auditing
Watchdog opens inquiry into accountancy firm’s role in collapse of construction giant


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 8:37 am 
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A lot of food for thought in the Lords' response to the EU Withdrawal Bill

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... tee-brexit

eu-withdrawal-bill-major-rewrites-house-of-lords-committee-brexit


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 8:38 am 
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Quote:
Labour is planning to support around 20 amendments in the Lords, meaning there is a real chance of government defeats with the support of crossbench and Lib Dem peers.

Top of its list of demands are: a role for parliament in the event of no deal; a vote for the UK parliament on the final deal ahead of the EU parliament; a time-limited transitional period on current terms; enhanced protection for EU-derived rights; further limitations on Henry VIII powers; and removing the government’s fixed Brexit day.


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 8:39 am 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
A lot of food for thought in the Lords' response to the EU Withdrawal Bill

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... tee-brexit

eu-withdrawal-bill-major-rewrites-house-of-lords-committee-brexit
"Peers say Brexit legislation is fundamentally flawed and risks undermining legal certainty"

No kidding


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 8:45 am 
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citizenJA wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
A lot of food for thought in the Lords' response to the EU Withdrawal Bill

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... tee-brexit

eu-withdrawal-bill-major-rewrites-house-of-lords-committee-brexit
"Peers say Brexit legislation is fundamentally flawed and risks undermining legal certainty"

No kidding

And remembering that there is a possibility that the Lords could take the view that the Salisbury Convention does not apply in this Parliament and could refuse to pass the bill.

It seems plausible to me that they would do this (or threaten to) on a "constitutionally unacceptable" basis. Less so on an explicit pro-Remain ticket.


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 8:53 am 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
A lot of food for thought in the Lords' response to the EU Withdrawal Bill

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... tee-brexit

eu-withdrawal-bill-major-rewrites-house-of-lords-committee-brexit
"Peers say Brexit legislation is fundamentally flawed and risks undermining legal certainty"

No kidding

And remembering that there is a possibility that the Lords could take the view that the Salisbury Convention does not apply in this Parliament and could refuse to pass the bill.

It seems plausible to me that they would do this (or threaten to) on a "constitutionally unacceptable" basis. Less so on an explicit pro-Remain ticket.



And how would having no Bill passed be a good thing, considering that we leave the EU on 29 March 2019, because of art 50 voted for under a three line whip by Labour?

A Bill, looking very much like the current one in all important respects, will pass because there is now no choice. The amendments are just trivia.

[Sorry, I forgot, you are operating on the assumption that Labour has a cunning plan to stop Brexit.]


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 9:20 am 
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HindleA wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/jan/29/kpmg-carillion-frc

KPMG to be investigated over Carillion auditing
Watchdog opens inquiry into accountancy firm’s role in collapse of construction giant


Clearly haven't learned the lessons of 2008...

We had a couple of trading companies in our group and in all the time I was there, I reckon there was a single auditor who really understood what was going on - and the management knew it as well. To their relief he was moved onto another audit the following year.

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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 9:22 am 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
And remembering that there is a possibility that the Lords could take the view that the Salisbury Convention does not apply in this Parliament and could refuse to pass the bill.

It seems plausible to me that they would do this (or threaten to) on a "constitutionally unacceptable" basis. Less so on an explicit pro-Remain ticket.



And how would having no Bill passed be a good thing, considering that we leave the EU on 29 March 2019, because of art 50 voted for under a three line whip by Labour?

A Bill, looking very much like the current one in all important respects, will pass because there is now no choice. The amendments are just trivia.

[Sorry, I forgot, you are operating on the assumption that Labour has a cunning plan to stop Brexit.]

I don't think there's a cunning plan, just an approach that might land us there ;-)


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 9:35 am 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
---
[Sorry, I forgot, you are operating on the assumption that Labour has a cunning plan to stop Brexit.]
(cJA bold & edit)

Don't you ever presume to do others' thinking for them. You're unqualified. You're rude, you trespass upon others' personal boundaries and your posts are wholly unwelcome here.


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 9:58 am 
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Morning

and how does the way Labour voted on article 50 make any difference to where we are now?

When we look back on this I am pretty certain that vote will not figure in the most critical events of the process - it could have done but the way the Tories voted meant it was always going to pass. An important event but not one that will be shown to have had any impact on the outcome - unless historians judge that by voting for, Labour was helped in the 2017 election (such extrapolations are dangerous though)

In order to have any impact on Brexit negotiations, this Tory Government has to fall. At the moment they are looking exceedingly unstable and these votes will do nothing to help their situation. A bill needs to pass and it will do, at some point.

From a political standpoint now though Labour need to be trying to inflict maximum damage on the Tories, without allowing fire to be turned on them

Politics is a dirty business unfortunately, especially under our archaic institutions


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 10:23 am 
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@CJA @HSOM Indeed.

And as I was saying, one of our very archaic institutions now moves centre stage in Brexit.

I'd love any links or thoughts about how the Lords are going to play this. Who are the key players in the Lords? How does the arithmetic look for Brexit in the Lords?


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 10:27 am 
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Angela Rayner on Twitter:

Theresa May to attempt to calm Tory Party civil war at Brexit 'war cabinet' meeting. Energy minister Claire Perry said hard Brexit supporters were 'swivel-eyed' and hell-bent on 'wrecking the economy' Tories are literally falling apart with infighting
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 82911.html


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 10:30 am 
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How many months since the referendum and the government still doesn't actually know what it wants from the EU?

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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 10:33 am 
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It is looking like :popcorn: time as we watch the Tories this week.

Didn't someone say May out of the country. Where is she?


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 10:53 am 
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She is going to China, apparently. Can't see any possible problems with that in the present climate obviously ;)


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 10:58 am 
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Quote:
Ann Pettifor


@AnnPettifor
3h3 hours ago
More
Weakest calendar year GDP data for 5 years, driven by slowdown in services output - @geofftily https://www.tuc.org.uk/blogs/weakest-gd ... ces-output


Incidentally, Pettifor is not a MMTist, she's a Keynesian.

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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 11:02 am 
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Even if she was the former, that wouldn't justify the sneeringly dismissive tone deployed by a poster here in recent days.


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 11:05 am 
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I am a Taurus


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 11:20 am 
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At some point today the cabinet’s key Brexit committee, the EU exit and trade (strategy and negotiations) sub-committee, is also holding another meeting to discuss what final Brexit outcome (“end state”) the UK actually wants. As yet, there is no agreement. (Politics Live, Guardian)


I can see the attraction of being in China . . .


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 12:13 pm 
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gilsey wrote:
Quote:
Ann Pettifor


@AnnPettifor
3h3 hours ago
More
Weakest calendar year GDP data for 5 years, driven by slowdown in services output - @geofftily https://www.tuc.org.uk/blogs/weakest-gd ... ces-output


Incidentally, Pettifor is not a MMTist, she's a Keynesian.


No she isn't. When she was on Labour's Council of Economic Advsiers she argued for using primarily fiscal policy even after the UK had left the zlb.

The majority (orthodox Keynesian) position was adopted of using monetary policy after that point.

This is described by Wren-Lewis (who is a Keynesian) on his blog somewhere, but I'd have to scan through all his posts to find it.

In all important respects, she is an MMT-er as she agrees with that tribe on most things.


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 12:21 pm 
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Oh to be an expert of everything and be so arrogantly dismissive of people who do this as their profession

There is every right to disagree - I take a dim view of a lot of economists myself as I think their predictive ability is pretty unimpressive - but they know a lot more than I do, and am sure than you do.

Why don't you concentrate on your real profession? Whatever it is


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 12:21 pm 
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Is there anyone serious advising McDonnell now on economics? Clearly the Council members are now considered anti-Corbynite Quislings, so who else has he recruited?

On googling, this is all I found, which fills me with gloom about the future.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/john ... -tsgdcxwmw


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 12:25 pm 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
Is there anyone serious advising McDonnell now on economics? Clearly the Council members are now considered anti-Corbynite Quislings, so who else has he recruited?

On googling, this is all I found, which fills me with gloom about the future.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/john ... -tsgdcxwmw


Are you a Russian bot?

Can be the only other explanation for this type of crap post or this is clear trolling


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 12:29 pm 
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Image

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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 12:31 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
She is going to China, apparently. Can't see any possible problems with that in the present climate obviously ;)


Nicky Morgan doesn't seem to be missing her:
https://www.conservativehome.com/thecol ... of-it.html
"Nicky Morgan: Perhaps the Prime Minister should have gone. But she didn’t. The Cabinet must now take a lead."
Quote:
Of course, the Prime Minister should be leading the way on this and driving her Ministers to think big and bold. If nothing else it would cheer up and raise the spirits of the Conservative Party in Parliament and in the country. But if that isn’t going to happen, then Cabinet members have a duty, as the senior leaders in the governance of our country, to do it anyway – within the bounds of collective responsibility.


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 12:37 pm 
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"in due course" roughly translates as "haven't a bloody clue when though".

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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 1:11 pm 
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Good piece by Freddie Whittaker on the role of rich businessmen in the education system.

The Presidents Club, David Meller, and the rise of the education philanthropist

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/education/2018/01/presidents-club-david-meller-and-rise-education-philanthropist

Quote:
Between 2011 and 2014, Meller also served as a director at the thinktank Policy Exchange, which was founded by the ex-education secretary Michael Gove. In 2013, Gove appointed Meller to the DfE’s board, and he was subsequently asked to chair the apprenticeship ambassador network, and later the apprenticeship delivery board, which was co-chaired by Nadhim Zahawi, the families and childrens minister who was also in attendence at the Presidents Club event.


Shocked etc.

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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 1:13 pm 
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And before anyone pints this out...

Quote:
He set up The Harefield Academy in 2005, becoming its lead sponsor and chair of governors. In 2008, he was approached by the Labour government and asked to sponsor a second school – The Bushey Academy – which opened in 2009 after its predecessor, a local authority-maintained school, failed.


:roll:

"Public sector reform"...

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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 1:49 pm 
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howsillyofme1 wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
Is there anyone serious advising McDonnell now on economics? Clearly the Council members are now considered anti-Corbynite Quislings, so who else has he recruited?

On googling, this is all I found, which fills me with gloom about the future.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/john ... -tsgdcxwmw


Are you a Russian bot?

Can be the only other explanation for this type of crap post or this is clear trolling


I thought that the "Russian bots" were pro-Corbyn, its hard to keep up with these things tbf ;)


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 2:14 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
Is there anyone serious advising McDonnell now on economics? Clearly the Council members are now considered anti-Corbynite Quislings, so who else has he recruited?

On googling, this is all I found, which fills me with gloom about the future.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/john ... -tsgdcxwmw


Are you a Russian bot?

Can be the only other explanation for this type of crap post or this is clear trolling


I thought that the "Russian bots" were pro-Corbyn, its hard to keep up with these things tbf ;)



The Russian bots tend to be pro-Assad and anti-EU. As a result the're very pro-Corbyn.


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 2:15 pm 
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It's not for me to say someone's posts are not welcome here, please excuse me.


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 2:37 pm 
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The Monday afternoon inner sanctum politburo is the most interesting fact here

https://www.newstatesman.com/2018/01/la ... tters-them


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 3:38 pm 
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Actually, I thought the whole thing was a good read.


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 4:11 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Actually, I thought the whole thing was a good read.

Me too.

I was expecting to find the phrase "inner sanctum politburo" somewhere but was disappointed :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 4:12 pm 
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Debbie Abrahams MP

Verified account

@Debbie_abrahams
10m10 minutes ago
More
In answer to my Written Parliamentary Question on #PIP regulations and back payments, the Minister says approximately 1.6 MILLION PIP claims will be reconsidered and she can provide no timetable for when this will happen. Read the answer in full here:
http://www.parliament.uk/business/publi ... 23/124308/


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 5:13 pm 
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I am not sure that it is unusual for party leaders to have a group of senior people around them to help them form strategy - in fact I would assume that they all do it to a lesser or greater extent

Obviously, some of those outside this will be annoyed but I don't find anything in that article startling

I am also bemused as the word 'skeptic' being now assumed to mean 'against'. For years someone like a Bill Cash has been described as Euroskeptic - he isn't, he is anti-EU

I find Corbyn more readily fits into the description of a skeptic - and in some ways it is a healthy approach. The EU has an internal market as a strong component and I am not a proponent of free market economics as has been the dogma for nigh on 40 years - that does not mean that I am anti-EU but, if asked, I will not claim that being in the EU does not create some problems. They are though outweighed by the benefits but I am skeptical about some parts


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 5:39 pm 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
Are you a Russian bot?

Can be the only other explanation for this type of crap post or this is clear trolling


I thought that the "Russian bots" were pro-Corbyn, its hard to keep up with these things tbf ;)



The Russian bots tend to be pro-Assad and anti-EU. As a result the're very pro-Corbyn.


If you say so.


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 5:43 pm 
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A cat has four legs, and so does a dog therefore a cat is a dog!


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 5:45 pm 
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https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/adam-r ... Brexit-erg
"MPs demand ‘urgent investigation’ into Cabinet ministers' support for hard-Brexit lobby group"
Quote:
A number of Cabinet members appear to have breached the rules of government through their membership of a secretive hard-Brexit lobby group, now chaired by the outspoken government critic Jacob-Rees Mogg, openDemocracy can reveal today

Quote:
.....and the SNP’s Deirdre Brock asking, “What kind of shameless opportunist would be supporting their colleagues in public while betraying them in private?”
.


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 5:58 pm 
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A Tory


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 6:32 pm 
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howsillyofme1 wrote:
I am not sure that it is unusual for party leaders to have a group of senior people around them to help them form strategy - in fact I would assume that they all do it to a lesser or greater extent

Obviously, some of those outside this will be annoyed but I don't find anything in that article startling

I am also bemused as the word 'skeptic' being now assumed to mean 'against'. For years someone like a Bill Cash has been described as Euroskeptic - he isn't, he is anti-EU

I find Corbyn more readily fits into the description of a skeptic - and in some ways it is a healthy approach. The EU has an internal market as a strong component and I am not a proponent of free market economics as has been the dogma for nigh on 40 years - that does not mean that I am anti-EU but, if asked, I will not claim that being in the EU does not create some problems. They are though outweighed by the benefits but I am skeptical about some parts


The Eurozone is the bit to be skeptical about. Which is a bit of a problem!

The Single Market is good. See how it restricts the sort of bidding on freebies that US states do to big employers.


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 6:46 pm 
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Tubby Isaacs wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
I am not sure that it is unusual for party leaders to have a group of senior people around them to help them form strategy - in fact I would assume that they all do it to a lesser or greater extent

Obviously, some of those outside this will be annoyed but I don't find anything in that article startling

I am also bemused as the word 'skeptic' being now assumed to mean 'against'. For years someone like a Bill Cash has been described as Euroskeptic - he isn't, he is anti-EU

I find Corbyn more readily fits into the description of a skeptic - and in some ways it is a healthy approach. The EU has an internal market as a strong component and I am not a proponent of free market economics as has been the dogma for nigh on 40 years - that does not mean that I am anti-EU but, if asked, I will not claim that being in the EU does not create some problems. They are though outweighed by the benefits but I am skeptical about some parts


The Eurozone is the bit to be skeptical about. Which is a bit of a problem!

The Single Market is good. See how it restricts the sort of bidding on freebies that US states do to big employers.



The Euro and its weaknesses are integral to how the internal market is really supposed to function though, and is one of the pillars envisaged but certain countries have treaty opt-outs or are fudging joining

I am happy to be pro-Euro skeptic. In but continue to reform and develop

I am not in the Clegg 'in ten years it will look the same' band of Europhiliacs


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan, 2018 7:30 pm 
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In half an hour the MMT !

pto


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