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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 5:07 pm 
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@SH

Rees-Mogg himself has defended the right of the antifa protesters to protest peacefully. Get a grip.


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 5:15 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
@SH

Rees-Mogg himself has defended the right of the antifa protesters to protest peacefully. Get a grip.



Of course they have the freedom to do that.

Is it however the right thing to do to turn up at a meeting on campus wearing masks and shouting down the speaker?

Would you do it?

Not only is it a bad thing to do in its own right, it is entirely counterproductive. I thought it ridiculous that Rees-Mogg could be PM. I now think there is a distinct chance of it, his reputation is so advanced.


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 5:17 pm 
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frog222 wrote:


Psst there's a difference between AntiFa and Labour/Momentum . But maybe that's a bit too complicated for you.


Again, why are you attributing this confusion to me? where have I ever said these people were Labour/Mometum?

I've never said, or thought so.


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 5:20 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:

Brandon Lewis (who admittedly is only a member of the "right wing nutjob" government - and not the "right wing nutjob" press).



Are you referring to his appearance on Sunday Politics? I watched it. He never said when I watched it that they were representatives of the Labour party.

He did say they were 'Hard Left', and although that is insulting, it seems pretty accurate to me.


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 5:33 pm 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
PorFavor wrote:

Brandon Lewis (who admittedly is only a member of the "right wing nutjob" government - and not the "right wing nutjob" press).



Are you referring to his appearance on Sunday Politics? I watched it. He never said when I watched it that they were representatives of the Labour party.

He did say they were 'Hard Left', and although that is insulting, it seems pretty accurate to me.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/201 ... um=twitter
Quote:
Mr Lewis accused “Momentum-supporting thugs” of trying to “silence Conservatives”, in reference to the campaign group which supports Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, as he urged members to sign a petition in support of free speech.


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 5:42 pm 
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Now come on baby
Don't fall down on me now
Just move it right here
To the Rees-Mogg Scuffle


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 5:43 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
PorFavor wrote:

Brandon Lewis (who admittedly is only a member of the "right wing nutjob" government - and not the "right wing nutjob" press).



Are you referring to his appearance on Sunday Politics? I watched it. He never said when I watched it that they were representatives of the Labour party.

He did say they were 'Hard Left', and although that is insulting, it seems pretty accurate to me.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/201 ... um=twitter
Quote:
Mr Lewis accused “Momentum-supporting thugs” of trying to “silence Conservatives”, in reference to the campaign group which supports Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, as he urged members to sign a petition in support of free speech.



You think Josh Connor isn't a Momentum supporter then? He clearly is not a representative of Momentum, or Labour, and nobody has said he is.


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 5:44 pm 
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Amusing test

https://www.idrlabs.com/political-left-right/test.php

I am, inevitably, a left leaning centrist.


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 5:55 pm 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
You think Josh Connor isn't a Momentum supporter then? He clearly is not a representative of Momentum, or Labour, and nobody has said he is.

Ooh! He liked some posts on social media. No evidence so far that he is a member of either Momentum or Labour.


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 5:57 pm 
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Here's the letter that David Lammy sent to Claire Kober last July about the Haringey scheme.

https://twitter.com/_jackmckenna/status ... 6665127941

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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 5:58 pm 
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I notice that SH is ignoring the Mogg supporter who punched a lady in the face. Just the "lefites shouting at people".


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 6:05 pm 
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In which Julia Hartley-Brewer starts to do a "yeah but no but yeah but" on Brexit. It also has a reminder about Katie Hopkins and her daughter's name which is always hilarious to see again.

https://twitter.com/hrtbps/status/960148211418779649

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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 6:06 pm 
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refitman wrote:
I notice that SH is ignoring the Mogg supporter who punched a lady in the face. Just the "lefites shouting at people".



I'm not. A disgusting thing to do.

I am just perplexed as to why you think this excuses the people who went along in masks to disrupt the event. Just different groups of appalling people. Unlike some here apparently, I feel no need to defend any of them,

To be clear, I am neither a supporter of the wing of Labour that josh Connor and his friends support, nor of Rees=Mogg. That politics has descended into Corbyn v Rees-Mogg is as astonishing as it is appalling.


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 6:10 pm 
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RogerOThornhill wrote:
Here's the letter that David Lammy sent to Claire Kober last July about the Haringey scheme.

https://twitter.com/_jackmckenna/status ... 6665127941



I'd quite like to see a careful consideration of the pros and cons of this scheme from a third party. (The Lammy letter is devoid of substance.)

I have absolutely no doubt residents opposed it: it would be disruptive to those who would have to move, and nobody likes development near them. A common phenomenon.

We have elected representatives to pursue the common good.

But so far I've not seen a case made that these homes could have been built in another way.

Again, I think you increase the availability of affordable housing by building more units, regardless of the cost of those particular units.


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 6:11 pm 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
refitman wrote:
I notice that SH is ignoring the Mogg supporter who punched a lady in the face. Just the "lefites shouting at people".



I'm not. A disgusting thing to do.

I am just perplexed as to why you think this excuses the people who went along in masks to disrupt the event. Just different groups of appalling people. Unlike some here apparently, I feel no need to defend any of them,

To be clear, I am neither a supporter of the wing of Labour that josh Connor and his friends support, nor of Rees=Mogg. That politics has descended into Corbyn v Rees-Mogg is as astonishing as it is appalling.


How many straw men is it possible to fit into one short and vacuous post


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 6:15 pm 
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howsillyofme1 wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
refitman wrote:
I notice that SH is ignoring the Mogg supporter who punched a lady in the face. Just the "lefites shouting at people".



I'm not. A disgusting thing to do.

I am just perplexed as to why you think this excuses the people who went along in masks to disrupt the event. Just different groups of appalling people. Unlike some here apparently, I feel no need to defend any of them,

To be clear, I am neither a supporter of the wing of Labour that josh Connor and his friends support, nor of Rees=Mogg. That politics has descended into Corbyn v Rees-Mogg is as astonishing as it is appalling.


How many straw men is it possible to fit into one short and vacuous post

Pssst I think Hugo's been down the pub ;-)


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 6:17 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Pssst I think Hugo's been down the pub ;-)


i do love the moderators.


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 6:17 pm 
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https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... r-11968227

tory-youth-wing-chaos-leader

The thing I found most amusing was that the guy hoping to revive the image of the Tories with young people hangs out in a bar called Thatcher's!


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 6:18 pm 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Pssst I think Hugo's been down the pub ;-)


i do love the moderators.


yeah, fab aren't they

You are actually very lucky because on most sites you would have been chucked off ages ago....as you have been elsewhere!


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 6:20 pm 
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OK let's move on folks.

Any new stories? It's starting to feel like a GE to me :-s


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 6:25 pm 
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Pick of the week on the BoE's magic money tree ... 18.22h

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09qb05t


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 6:25 pm 
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On the Daily Politics, Brandon Lewis expressed himself in such a way that Sarah Smith felt it necessary, several times, to step in and clarify that there was no evidence that the Labour Party was involved - thus giving him (BL) ample opportunity to clarify his comments. Which he didn't.


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 6:28 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
OK let's move on folks.

Any new stories? It's starting to feel like a GE to me :-s

How about the Tories very own "party within a party"? Staggers has a piece on ERG (https://www.newstatesman.com/2018/02/eu ... l-momentum) and of course there was the C4 interview with Suella Fernandes, in which she wasn't at all evasive: https://www.channel4.com/news/conservat ... gle-market


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 6:30 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
OK let's move on folks.

Any new stories? It's starting to feel like a GE to me :-s


The test is over . . .



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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 6:33 pm 
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What news?

Well outside the fluff around Labour - and it is fluff really - the main subject seems to be imminent split in the Tory party although the media try and skim over it a a bit

Both Newton-Dunn and Richards on SP (I ignore JHB as she is really away with the pixies somewhere) agree that May has no way out of this and something has to break.. The Tories will definitely collapse into infighting over the Brexit transition and withdrawal bill

How that will play out will be interesting to see - the pro-Europeans probably have the numbers (although what the bulk of Tory MPs actually think is a mystery to me) but they are not winning the media war - Johnson, Gove and Rees-Mogg all have a much stronger profile than Rudd and Hammond

They also know, from experience, is that they can lie about things and there is no comeback


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 6:36 pm 
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refitman wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
OK let's move on folks.

Any new stories? It's starting to feel like a GE to me :-s

How about the Tories very own "party within a party"? Staggers has a piece on ERG (https://www.newstatesman.com/2018/02/eu ... l-momentum) and of course there was the C4 interview with Suella Fernandes, in which she wasn't at all evasive: https://www.channel4.com/news/conservat ... gle-market



Indeed - and she helped Corbyn again

The Tories seem to think that saying Labour are pro-SM and CU causes them damage. It just helps Corbyn with current approach


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 7:15 pm 
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refitman wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
OK let's move on folks.

Any new stories? It's starting to feel like a GE to me :-s

How about the Tories very own "party within a party"? Staggers has a piece on ERG (https://www.newstatesman.com/2018/02/eu ... l-momentum) and of course there was the C4 interview with Suella Fernandes, in which she wasn't at all evasive: https://www.channel4.com/news/conservat ... gle-market


She was first elected in 2015 and on a manifesto that said we'd remain in the single market...

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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 7:47 pm 
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Quote:
Hospitals cancelling urgent surgery despite NHS bosses' orders

Exclusive: shortage of intensive care beds in England leading to operations being postponed

Hospitals have been cancelling urgent surgery for patients with cancer, heart disease and other life-threatening illnesses, despite NHS bosses’ orders not to delay such operations. Some patients have had their procedure cancelled several times, even though their poor health means the surgery is urgent. Others have had operations cancelled on the day they were scheduled to take place. (Guardian)


https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/feb/04/hospitals-cancelling-urgent-surgery-despite-nhs-bosses-orders-england-cancer-heart-operations


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 7:59 pm 
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citizenJA wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:
Quote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/formula-1-one-grid-girls-boxing-sexism-sport-me-too-tennis-a8190686.html
Goodbye grid girls – there is no place in sport for sexual objectification anymore

I am genuinely puzzled by the gender equality movement. If I understand correctly, only certain types of women are allowed now? Not those who want to be, say, cheerleaders? And where are Madonna and Miley Cyrus on this spectrum. Aren't they objectifying women?

I do recall the discussion around the first female Dr Who about how she wasn't going to be tramping around a field wearing stilletoes and getting someone to help her with her sonic screwdriver - but why not? Some women do wear stilletoes and some aren't into DIY. Is that not allowed now?
(cJA bold)

She doesn't want to, I'd imagine. That's why she said it. The first female Dr Who doesn't speak for all women when she talks about what she does and doesn't want to do. That doesn't mean all women are no longer allowed to wear stilletoes and maintain a disinclination for do it yourself activities. I read the article you've linked and didn't find where it said only certain types of women are allowed now. Where'd you see that? Are you asking these questions in all seriousness?


Yes.

It doesn't say it in the article - I merely thought it as a consequence of seeing various developments of this nature appearing within the context of the gender equality movement. Another question I ponder on is why it's great for women when we turn male heroes into female heroes (Dr Who, James Bond) rather than just develop female heroes. Genuinely puzzled.

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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 7:59 pm 
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Quote:
Tax abuse crackdown brings in only a third of expected £1bn

Freedom of Information request reveals some attempts to close avoidance loopholes have failed

The shadow chancellor, John McDonnell, said these figures exposed “the utter failure” of the government to ensure the super-rich and big corporations were paying their fair share in tax.

“This could be just the tip of the iceberg,” he said. McDonnell said that after the Paradise Papers revelations last year, the government had been quick to promise action but slow to deliver on it. “Now they have been shown to not even deliver on what they originally promise,” he said. (Guardian)


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/04/tax-abuse-crackdown-only-third-expected-1bn-freedom-information


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 8:01 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
I blame tc2 for changing the subject.

You can always rely on me to be unintentionally something.

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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 8:02 pm 
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citizenJA wrote:
HindleA wrote:
I blame tc2 for changing the subject.
tinyclanger2 is brilliant


(looks modestly down)

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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 8:04 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
SH appearing to be struggling with the very basic concept of appropriate behaviour.

No need for an expression of surprise emoticon then.

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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 8:09 pm 
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James Bond? A male hero?


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 8:20 pm 
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Quote:
Current alert level: Level 3 - Cold Weather Action
Issued at: 09:02 on Sun 4 Feb 2018

There is a 90% probability of severe cold weather, icy conditions and snow between 0900 on Sunday 04 Feb and 0900 on Friday 09 Feb in parts of England. This weather could increase the health risks to vulnerable patients and disrupt the delivery of services. Please refer to the national Cold Weather Plan and your Trust's emergency plan for appropriate preventive action.

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/wea ... atherAlert


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 8:22 pm 
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citizenJA wrote:
Quote:
Current alert level: Level 3 - Cold Weather Action
Issued at: 09:02 on Sun 4 Feb 2018

There is a 90% probability of severe cold weather, icy conditions and snow between 0900 on Sunday 04 Feb and 0900 on Friday 09 Feb in parts of England. This weather could increase the health risks to vulnerable patients and disrupt the delivery of services. Please refer to the national Cold Weather Plan and your Trust's emergency plan for appropriate preventive action.

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/wea ... atherAlert



Super!


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 8:31 pm 
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It's an odd weather alert notification
I re-checked the date to make sure
The cancellation of surgeries made me check the weather
Medical staff know there's a series of days and hours when they'll have a surge in health emergencies when a cold front comes in


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 8:34 pm 
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I didn't phrase that well at all
can't fix it either
sorry


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 9:03 pm 
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citizenJA wrote:
I didn't phrase that well at all
can't fix it either
sorry


Got your drift perfectly well, thanks!


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 9:40 pm 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:
Here's the letter that David Lammy sent to Claire Kober last July about the Haringey scheme.

https://twitter.com/_jackmckenna/status ... 6665127941



I'd quite like to see a careful consideration of the pros and cons of this scheme from a third party. (The Lammy letter is devoid of substance.)

I have absolutely no doubt residents opposed it: it would be disruptive to those who would have to move, and nobody likes development near them. A common phenomenon.

We have elected representatives to pursue the common good.

But so far I've not seen a case made that these homes could have been built in another way.

Again, I think you increase the availability of affordable housing by building more units, regardless of the cost of those particular units.


I'm not sure, SH, that you appreciate the full extent of this scheme, this hand over of public land and property to private hands
Here are maps of what is proposed be given to Lendlease :
http://opinion8.ning.com/forum/topics/m ... or-the-hdv

The larger and more notable sites are:

Wood Green Library – 0.387 hectare
Muswell Hill Library – 0.039 hectare
The Civic Centre (High Road, Wood Green)
Broadwater Farm (unquantified, but many hectares)
Northumberland Park Estate (unquantified, but many hectares)
Council HQ: River Park House and the adjoining car park; Alexandra House; 40 Cumberland Road; 49 Station Road; 38-46 Station Road
The Ashley Road Depot – 1.66 hectares
Freehold property in the vicinity of Cobourg Road & Western Road
Land opposite Enfield Cremetorium (The Dell) Great Cambridge Road – 4.11 hectares
(As the author notes, this is not a comprehensive list)

The Northumberland Park estate alone will mean the demolition of upto 1,900 homes. Some private, some social housing. But all homes to someone.
http://haringeyhousingaction.org.uk/nor ... molitions/
Add in Broadwater Farm (that I can't find household numbers for just now) and we are looking at the mass demolition of social housing with NO guarantee of replacement. See

"The HDV’s defenders claim it was the only practical way of dealing with London’s housing crisis in a decade of brutal cuts. Yet it would have done nothing for the 10,000 households on the waiting list for a Haringey council home. The policy set no explicit target for social housing. I have approached the council press office several times, I have asked a senior councillor on television and another on social media. The response is usually a wriggle of discomfort and then a promise that 40% of new homes built would be “affordable” – a term that in London means its opposite, given the sky-high market rates."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -residents

I (personally) think this scale of public-to-private transfer of assets need rather more agreement than one woman's say so (simplistic I know, but I'm sure you get my gist)

Renovation and "council builds" on council owned land, must surely be a better option in long term if we consider retention of council assets (which I do) as important for future generations?


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 9:49 pm 
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...and
A London borough is transferring most of its social housing to a private developer. What is it thinking?

https://www.citymetric.com/politics/lon ... nking-3427

...is a good read, although again from the anti side, but that's only because I'm finding it a bit hard to find any articles supporting the development


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 9:58 pm 
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AAW well-sleuthed . :-)


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 10:04 pm 
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frog222 wrote:
AAW well-sleuthed . :-)


Thanks, it's a subject I'm interested in as my own council are using private partnerships to build houses. They have set about it on smaller scales and have imput council money as well as the land AND are giving contracts to local builders to encourage the local economy. The money is on loan from the pension fund and will be replaced by rents returns as I understand it - it will be more complicated than that, I'm sure but that the basic idea.
It seems to be working...
*fingers crossed.


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 10:10 pm 
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Night night.


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 10:13 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
Night night.

Goodnight, PorFavor


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 10:29 pm 
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Apparently Number 10 have categorically stated that we are leaving the Customs Union.

So, err, Ireland?


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 10:54 pm 
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Faisal Islam‏Verified account
@faisalislam

“a” Customs union timeline
Thur: Gov legislates fast track power for “a customs union”/ Fox doesnt rule out in iv with me/ FT: being prepared
Fri: PM doesnt rule out in iv with me. Fox rules out
Sat: “dream tkt/cavalry coming”
Sun: Rudd doesnt rule it out. Raab does. No 10 does

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/ ... 6536986624


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 11:02 pm 
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AngryAsWell wrote:
frog222 wrote:
AAW well-sleuthed . :-)


Thanks, it's a subject I'm interested in as my own council are using private partnerships to build houses. They have set about it on smaller scales and have imput council money as well as the land AND are giving contracts to local builders to encourage the local economy. The money is on loan from the pension fund and will be replaced by rents returns as I understand it - it will be more complicated than that, I'm sure but that the basic idea.
It seems to be working...
*fingers crossed.


Makes sense, we are after all in a mixed economy ! A medium-size builder friend does just that in collaboration with LA's around London, sometimes even building to superior eco standards .


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 11:20 pm 
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The homeless man who turned to poetry to tell the harsh realities of life on the streets
Neil Hallows has now had his poems published as a book called 'Invisible'

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... s-14145959

'Invisible' - Poetry by Manchester's homeless

https://www.youcaring.com/neilhallowsan ... nd-1046115


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 11:28 pm 
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howsillyofme1 wrote:
How many straw men is it possible to fit into one short and vacuous post


There is an official standard answer to this question and it upset me a little that nobody gave it.

It is, of course
Quote:
Enough to contain an infinite number of Edward Woodwards


(If you lot think you've had it bad I've been arguing with creationists BTL in the local paper all day).

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Most things are never meant.
This won’t be, most likely; but greeds
And garbage are too thick-strewn
To be swept up now, or invent
Excuses that make them all needs.
I just think it will happen, soon.


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