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PostPosted: Mon 12 Feb, 2018 7:09 am 
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Morning all.


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Feb, 2018 9:37 am 
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On Wednesday, Mr Johnson will try to ease the fears of leave voters


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Last edited by tinybgoat on Mon 12 Feb, 2018 10:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
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PostPosted: Mon 12 Feb, 2018 9:41 am 
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Morning all.

Labour rejects calls for cross-party body to solve NHS and social care crisis

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-nhs-social-care-funding-government-shadow-health-secretary-jon-ashworth-jeremy-hunt-liberal-a8204141.html

So why wouldn't Labour want to get involved in a Royal Commission? The answer's a bit further down the page than most would read...

Quote:
And a proposal to go further by setting up a fully-fledged Royal Commission has been put forward by the right-wing Centre for Policy Studies think-tank.


and

Quote:
But Labour was badly burned in 2010, when its plan for a levy on people’s estates after they die to fund social care – put forward in cross-party talks – was ruthlessly branded a “death tax” by the Tories.

A further problem is that a Royal Commission, with the power to subpoena documents and take evidence under oath, could take even longer than a public inquiry to reach a conclusion.


Good call then.

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PostPosted: Mon 12 Feb, 2018 9:53 am 
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Morning


Is this the new border technology the Tories keep talking about?

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/ ... d-crossing

and on the cross-party idea for the NHS - looks a good idea on paper but the Tories will use it for their own advantage and negate Labour's advantage.

Let us have true cross-party working and get rid of FPTP


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Feb, 2018 10:01 am 
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Good morfternoon.


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Feb, 2018 10:15 am 
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There's some superb replies to this.

https://twitter.com/ActivateBritain/sta ... 0944513024

Edit - like this retweet.

Quote:
@MikeStuchbery_
12m12 minutes ago
More Mike Stuchbery Retweeted Activate UK
Pulling up in a tall ship, raping, murdering and pillaging for a couple of centuries, then getting pissy when the locals move to Britain to see what all the fuss is about.

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PostPosted: Mon 12 Feb, 2018 10:24 am 
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RogerOThornhill wrote:
Morning all.

Labour rejects calls for cross-party body to solve NHS and social care crisis

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-nhs-social-care-funding-government-shadow-health-secretary-jon-ashworth-jeremy-hunt-liberal-a8204141.html

So why wouldn't Labour want to get involved in a Royal Commission? The answer's a bit further down the page than most would read...

Quote:
And a proposal to go further by setting up a fully-fledged Royal Commission has been put forward by the right-wing Centre for Policy Studies think-tank.


and

Quote:
But Labour was badly burned in 2010, when its plan for a levy on people’s estates after they die to fund social care – put forward in cross-party talks – was ruthlessly branded a “death tax” by the Tories.

A further problem is that a Royal Commission, with the power to subpoena documents and take evidence under oath, could take even longer than a public inquiry to reach a conclusion.


Good call then.


We've had Leveson, Vickers and Dilnot - all reviews with cross party support, but the Tories have ignored the recommendations of all of them. So it's easy to see why Labour would feel such a cross party effort would be a waste of their time. Rejecting cross party collaboration isn't going to look good to those who don't read all the way to the end, though.

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PostPosted: Mon 12 Feb, 2018 10:57 am 
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Of course it isn't, and that's why the Tories suggested it in the first place. A good piece of cynical politicking from then, something that has been quite rare recently.


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Feb, 2018 11:07 am 
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Digby Jones getting his arse handed to him on twitter, like shooting fish in a barrel tbf.

Quote:
Chris Addison

Verified account

@mrchrisaddison
3h3 hours ago
More Chris Addison Retweeted Lord Digby Jones
Attention all people shouting "Iceberg!" Stop doing the iceberg's job for it! This constant drawing attention to the iceberg HAS to stop. We'll end up with an iceberg through the side of the ship & you will be to blame. Will that make you feel better?
Quote:
Lord Digby Jones

@Digbylj
Attention all Remoaners! Stop doing Barnier’s work for him! This undermining of our Country’s negotiating with the EU HAS to stop. We’ll end up with a lousy deal & you will be to blame. Will that make you feel better? Surely you agree we should not give in to bullies.


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Feb, 2018 11:48 am 
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https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... -112117121

Quote:
Interest rate rise would hit millions in UK who depend on cheap credit
Almost half of low-income families are believed to be in debt distress already


An interesting mix of astute and informative comments btl alongside completely complacent, judgemental bollocks from the usual "back in my day" crowd.

The emergency low interest rates over the last decade could have provided a much needed sticking plaster to hold everything together while the government went about fixing some of the structural imbalances within our economy. Our government, however, rashly inflicted austerity on us instead, while pursuing policies that exasperated those imbalances further. The BofE has now run out of road. Interest rate rises are needed so the BofE has something to respond to Brexit at the end of transition in a couple of years time with. The truth of our economic recovery, based almost entirely on paper asset and population growth, will be exposed to a degree by an interest rate rise, but given how far removed most unsecured debt is from the base rate, it's what happens to wages that will impact the poorest the most. Will higher interest repayments lead to more wage suppression to protect dividends? I don't know. Higher interest rates would increase the deficit as well, which would normally lead to pressure to raise taxes - could we see a jump in VAT or even higher council tax rises? After all, any Tory tax rises are bound to be extremely regressive. Those who argue the poorest won't be affected by rate rises as much as buy-to-let landlords etc are missing the bigger picture which, with Tories in charge, is not looking very pretty.

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PostPosted: Mon 12 Feb, 2018 11:51 am 
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gilsey wrote:
Digby Jones getting his arse handed to him on twitter, like shooting fish in a barrel tbf.

Quote:
Chris Addison

Verified account

@mrchrisaddison
3h3 hours ago
More Chris Addison Retweeted Lord Digby Jones
Attention all people shouting "Iceberg!" Stop doing the iceberg's job for it! This constant drawing attention to the iceberg HAS to stop. We'll end up with an iceberg through the side of the ship & you will be to blame. Will that make you feel better?
Quote:
Lord Digby Jones

@Digbylj
Attention all Remoaners! Stop doing Barnier’s work for him! This undermining of our Country’s negotiating with the EU HAS to stop. We’ll end up with a lousy deal & you will be to blame. Will that make you feel better? Surely you agree we should not give in to bullies.



Gordon Brown made that........thing......a minister in his government. Let's never forget that.


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Feb, 2018 12:04 pm 
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RogerOThornhill wrote:
Morning all.

Labour rejects calls for cross-party body to solve NHS and social care crisis

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-nhs-social-care-funding-government-shadow-health-secretary-jon-ashworth-jeremy-hunt-liberal-a8204141.html

So why wouldn't Labour want to get involved in a Royal Commission? The answer's a bit further down the page than most would read...

Quote:
And a proposal to go further by setting up a fully-fledged Royal Commission has been put forward by the right-wing Centre for Policy Studies think-tank.


and

Quote:
But Labour was badly burned in 2010, when its plan for a levy on people’s estates after they die to fund social care – put forward in cross-party talks – was ruthlessly branded a “death tax” by the Tories.

A further problem is that a Royal Commission, with the power to subpoena documents and take evidence under oath, could take even longer than a public inquiry to reach a conclusion.


Good call then.



I don't think they're very serious reasons.

The actual one is that if there is a Commission with proposals that both parties then endorse it is neutralised as a political issue. Which is bad for Labour politically.

Would probably be good for UK social care, but as you see from the express reasons given, politics is seen as a kind of game.


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Feb, 2018 12:09 pm 
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Well, the Tories (Lansley, remember him?) running with the "DEATH TAX" meme after Labour set up a cross-party commission in total good faith remains one of the most shameful things I can recall in what is now approaching four decades of closely following politics. You can sort of forgive my "side" being cautious after that, can't you?


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Feb, 2018 12:12 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Well, the Tories (Lansley, remember him?) running with the "DEATH TAX" meme after Labour set up a cross-party commission in total good faith remains one of the most shameful things I can recall in what is now approaching four decades of closely following politics. You can sort of forgive my "side" being cautious after that, can't you?



The Tories are game playing too.

They know Labour would never accept, and now have a stick to beat them with.

Neither side is being serious.


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Feb, 2018 12:17 pm 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
I don't think they're very serious reasons.

The actual one is that if there is a Commission with proposals that both parties then endorse it is neutralised as a political issue. Which is bad for Labour politically.

Would probably be good for UK social care, but as you see from the express reasons given, politics is seen as a kind of game.


How likely is that the proposals would be ones which Labour could endorse given the origins in the independent (cough) CPS?

And as for playing politics - isn't that precisely what Hunt would be doing in kicking the whole issue into touch?

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PostPosted: Mon 12 Feb, 2018 1:08 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Of course it isn't, and that's why the Tories suggested it in the first place. A good piece of cynical politicking from then, something that has been quite rare recently.
If Tory government have no confidence in their leadership of the country, they're free to go.


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Feb, 2018 1:09 pm 
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Good-afternoon, everyone


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Feb, 2018 1:11 pm 
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Reports that NI power sharing could be not far from being reinstated - new leadership of Sinn Fein having an effect?


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Feb, 2018 2:07 pm 
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Time for a laugh

https://twitter.com/hashtag/ukpunday?da ... t&src=tren

#UKPunDay


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Feb, 2018 4:25 pm 
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Image


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Feb, 2018 4:37 pm 
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"once bittern, twice shy"?

(sorry)


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Feb, 2018 6:19 pm 
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https://mlexmarketinsight.com/insights- ... lextwitter

Quote:
Fast-food couriers, warehouse workers and minicab drivers are the new Brexit flashpoint.

In the talks on the UK's EU withdrawal, two issues stand out as especially sensitive. One is the implementation of new EU law during a transition period after March 2019, when the UK will lack a vote in EU decision-making.

The other is the “level playing field” — the EU’s desire to bind the UK into common standards on state aid, labor law and environmental regulation to prevent British companies from undercutting rivals in the bloc.


As long as we're not completely self-sufficient and therefore reliant to some degree or other on trade, the idea we can "take back control" is little more than an illusion.

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PostPosted: Mon 12 Feb, 2018 6:28 pm 
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Quote:
Last year, tenants in Britain paid a record £51.6bn in rents, an increase of £1.8bn on the previous year and more than twice the £22.6bn shelled out in 2007.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/ ... ts-in-2017


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Feb, 2018 8:33 pm 
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Pictures on my wall.
Any night.
Don't think it's going to happen for former EU islands of UK.

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PostPosted: Mon 12 Feb, 2018 8:40 pm 
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Men and voters over the age of 55 are warming towards the darling of the Tory right
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 05521.html

cognitive dissonance at its best. sorry folks, but as a species (cultural overriding of biology) we're not living up to our potential.

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PostPosted: Mon 12 Feb, 2018 9:01 pm 
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Night night.


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Feb, 2018 9:02 pm 
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Ian Dunt‏Verified account
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Following Following @IanDunt
More Ian Dunt Retweeted Daniel Hannan
Important moment. Even prominent Leavers now admit 'Project Fear' was accurate.

https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/963091512648261634


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Feb, 2018 9:28 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
Night night.

Goodnight, PorFavor


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Feb, 2018 9:29 pm 
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tinyclanger2 wrote:
Men and voters over the age of 55 are warming towards the darling of the Tory right
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 05521.html

cognitive dissonance at its best. sorry folks, but as a species (cultural overriding of biology) we're not living up to our potential.


Certainly not this male over 55 year old...seriously?

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PostPosted: Mon 12 Feb, 2018 9:33 pm 
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Tubby's objections to the John McD "balance sheet neutral " 'nationalisations ' went without comment ?

Well, he had a point .

For a start, IF you are going to compensate the vultures for future loss of earnings ......

<b>HELP ! </b>

It- willl be a poker game . IF the bandits are currently making a safe six percent on capital, you have to twist their arms enough to make them accept 3.5%, OR you will find a way to convince them that, OTHERWISE, they are going to be fucked over so thoroughly that they would not have wished to have been born.


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Feb, 2018 9:33 pm 
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That's what I said to myself
seriously?


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Feb, 2018 9:34 pm 
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There seems to be an awful lot of right wingers looking at the Oxfam story and thinking out loud "Goodness this is shocking...what shall we do?...I know....let's cut the aid budget!"

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PostPosted: Mon 12 Feb, 2018 9:38 pm 
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frog222 wrote:
Tubby's objections to the John McD "balance sheet neutral " 'nationalisations ' went without comment ?

Well, he had a point .

For a start, IF you are going to compensate the vultures for future loss of earnings ......

<b>HELP ! </b>

It- willl be a poker game . IF the bandits are currently making a safe six percent on capital, you have to twist their arms enough to make them accept 3.5%, OR you will find a way to convince them that, OTHERWISE, they are going to be fucked over so thoroughly that they would not have wished to have been born.


Hey, just looked in at this very second!

Balance sheet neutral is correct, and I'd be happy if we thought more about balance sheets.

"Costs nothing" was the issue I had with it.


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Feb, 2018 9:49 pm 
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Juho Romakkaniemi‏
@Romakka
Romakkaniemi Retweeted Steve Bullock
Of course. If Britain decides and notifies before March 31st 2019 that it does not want to leave, that’s enough: #Brexit van be cancelled by a single letter. It’s in the end of the day a political, not a judical decision.

https://twitter.com/Romakka/status/962816330926841856


(Juho Romakkaniemi
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Head of Cabinet of @jyrkikatainen, Vice-President of the European Commission / Opinions are own / General Worldview from the Economist / [s] = sarcasm or satire)


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Feb, 2018 9:59 pm 
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Goodnight, everyone
love,
cJA


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Feb, 2018 10:17 pm 
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Tubby Isaacs wrote:
frog222 wrote:
Tubby's objections to the John McD "balance sheet neutral " 'nationalisations ' went without comment ?

Well, he had a point .

For a start, IF you are going to compensate the vultures for future loss of earnings ......

<b>HELP ! </b>

It- willl be a poker game . IF the bandits are currently making a safe six percent on capital, you have to twist their arms enough to make them accept 3.5%, OR you will find a way to convince them that, OTHERWISE, they are going to be fucked over so thoroughly that they would not have wished to have been born.


Hey, just looked in at this very second!

Balance sheet neutral is correct, and I'd be happy if we thought more about balance sheets.

In the end it is all about Power, who is going to fuck over who . I've no idea how a straight 'nationalisation' would win in the courts , for example .

All those people with employment contracts etc


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Feb, 2018 10:35 pm 
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Boris' big speech was softly trailed as being about social justice and using 'the dividend' but in fact seems to be announcing that the EU is nothing but a federal project and our only future is to reject it and embrace a low regulation tax haven economy with little to do with them.

It feels like the end game - crashing out without a deal and abandoning the 20th century social contract, never mind the 21st - is near.

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