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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 7:33 am 
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refitman wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
John McDonnell MP‏Verified account
@johnmcdonnellMP

Telegraph lies. These are ridiculous and false allegations. I have never met any Czechoslovak or Soviet agent, nor visited the Soviet or Russian embassy and have only visited Guildford once in my life, which was last year for a Labour Party public meeting. Ludicrous Tory lies.

https://twitter.com/johnmcdonnellMP/sta ... 4447385600

Not sure what this is about as I've not seen the torygraph yet, but combined with attack on Corbyn & Brendan Cox (who it seems may have stuff to answer) I can't help wondering....... Is Maybot thinking of another snap election ???? There is no need to bring this stuff (whatever it may be) out now, why are they now saving it for GE time ?

Edit to delete several stray "ings" that had no place in where they had jumped into

Front page of the Kipper: https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/9 ... 4578438144


Again, if people are not put off by McDonnell's statements in support of the IRA, why would they be put off by this ancient history?

People don't care. Shameful IMO, but there we are.


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 7:38 am 
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This is old,but very helpful. It explains why property prices have gone up so much, and that this is not necessarily attributable to lack of supply

https://mainlymacro.blogspot.co.uk/2014 ... y.html?m=1


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 7:46 am 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
This is old,but very helpful. It explains why property prices have gone up so much, and that this is not necessarily attributable to lack of supply

https://mainlymacro.blogspot.co.uk/2014 ... y.html?m=1



Why do you keep back to posting old stuff that we have already discussed?

It is foolish to say that supply is not an issue (and here we talk not just of numbers but of type) and it is foolish to argue it is the only issue

The way the British housing market works and is so important to the 'feeling of wealth' means that no Government will be thanked for doing anything about it


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 7:47 am 
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https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... e-overhaul



Theresa May to reveal details of tuition fee overhaul on Monday


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 7:50 am 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
refitman wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
John McDonnell MP‏Verified account
@johnmcdonnellMP

Telegraph lies. These are ridiculous and false allegations. I have never met any Czechoslovak or Soviet agent, nor visited the Soviet or Russian embassy and have only visited Guildford once in my life, which was last year for a Labour Party public meeting. Ludicrous Tory lies.

https://twitter.com/johnmcdonnellMP/sta ... 4447385600

Not sure what this is about as I've not seen the torygraph yet, but combined with attack on Corbyn & Brendan Cox (who it seems may have stuff to answer) I can't help wondering....... Is Maybot thinking of another snap election ???? There is no need to bring this stuff (whatever it may be) out now, why are they now saving it for GE time ?

Edit to delete several stray "ings" that had no place in where they had jumped into

Front page of the Kipper: https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/9 ... 4578438144


Again, if people are not put off by McDonnell's statements in support of the IRA, why would they be put off by this ancient history?

People don't care. Shameful IMO, but there we are.



I would rather chop my arm off than contribute to the coffers of the Barclay brothers so can you please tell us what the actual allegation is - it looks from what I can see from the picture that this is the bloke behind the 'Czechs were behind Live Aid' gem

Is the allegation that they met people who turned out to be spies or that they were actually assets? If it is the former it is beyond ridiculous that this is even news seeing how every Easter European diplomat was a spy - if it is the latter then the evidence needs to be much stronger than some mad bloke saying so. Brenda was employing a known traitor for years - what should we do with her then?

You really are a malevolent little tick aren't you?


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 8:00 am 
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https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... t-east-one


You’ve heard about the north-south divide how about the West-East one.


W.Hutton


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 8:06 am 
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https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/d ... -in-court/


Deaf chief executive wins right to challenge Access to Work cap in court


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 8:18 am 
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-43084816


The country breeding a generation of chess whizz kids


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 8:21 am 
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The morally superior line very tiresome,especially from a stated discriminator of targeted posters on a false basis.


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 8:24 am 
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IMHO


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 8:28 am 
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Didn't know diplomats were ascribed according to holiday periods,what about the rest of the year?


(Joke,I like inadvertent errors which change the meaning somewhat-Easter European Diplomats)


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 8:30 am 
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HindleA wrote:
Didn't know diplomats were ascribed according to holiday periods,what about the rest of the year?


(Joke,I like inadvertent errors which change the meaning somewhat-Easter European Diplomats)


I will leave it in for posterity!


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 8:42 am 
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/02 ... -warnings/


NHS brings in three month minimum waiting times despite warnings patients will suffer
atients will be forced to endure pain, disability and could even see their lives cut short by increasing waiting times for routine operations under measures aimed to cut costs, surgeons have warned.

NHS officials have introduced new limits which mean patients in some parts of the country will be made to wait at least three months for routine surgery, such as hip operations and cardiac procedures.

The Royal College of Surgeons last night attacked the move, raising fears that other parts of the country could follow suite in a desperate attempt to cut costs and push spending into a new financial year.

The measures, which have been introduced in Lincolnshire, mean instead of waiting an average of seven and a half weeks for operations, patients will have to wait at least a month longer before they can have any routine operations. Cancer surgery and emergency cases are excluded from the restrictions.

Other areas have previously discussed introducing such measures, but have held off, after they were met with a backlash from patients groups and surgeons.

The only area which previously tried to bring in a minimum waiting time ditched the policy in November after it was widely condemned.

Cambridgeshire and Peterborough clinical commissioning group (CCG) abandoned the plans after just two months having projected they would save £600,000.

But Freedom of Information disclosures reveal that NHS South West Lincolnshire CCG has now introduced such measures.

Andrew Lansley banned minimum waiting times in 2011 Credit: Heathcliff O'Malley
Professor Neil Mortensen, vice president of the Royal College of Surgeons, urged health officials to think again, warning that forcing patients to endure ever longer waits would mean conditions would worsen, in some cases cutting lives short.

“Delaying elective treatment unnecessarily not only subjects patients to excessive pain and discomfort, but can also allow certain conditions to deteriorate, becoming life-limiting or even life-threatening,” the senior surgeon warned.

“We recognise the significant financial pressures facing some CCGs,” he said.

“However introducing an arbitrary minimum waiting time for surgery is unlikely to save money in the long term and raises serious professional and ethical issues.”

He urged NHS England to step in and tell the CCG that minimum waiting times were not acceptable.

“We are worried this is the thin end of the wedge, that other areas are likely to follow these measures, in an extremely short sighted attempt to save money in the short term.

“These operations will still happen, it’s just an attempt to push the spending into another year,” Prof Mortensen said.

As a result, too many patients would be left in “unrelenting pain” and misery.

“Some of these situations are appallingly painful,” he said.

The restrictions affect patients due to have operations at United Lincolnshire Hospitals Trust, Ramsay Healthcare, and the Orthopaedics & Spine Specialist Hospital.

Joyce Robins, Patient Concern
Caroline Abrahams, Charity Director at Age UK said: “There should be no place in the NHS for minimum waiting times for surgery - which are sure to condemn people in real medical need to additional misery and pain.”

“If you need an operation you are likely to be in a lot of discomfort at the very least and restricted in what you can do. Delaying surgery could cause a condition to worsen and make the operation more difficult. For older people it may threaten their ability to go on living independently - a terrible price for anyone to pay.”

In 2011 then health secretary, Andrew Lansley, banned primary care trusts from imposing minimum waiting times for routine surgery. Wigan Borough CCG and Trafford CCG have said they are considering such moves.

Jonathan Ashworth, shadow health secretary, said: “These minimum waits for operations will mean patients waiting longer and longer in pain and distress. Given health bosses in Lincolnshire are restricting patient access to timely operations in this way and we know other CCGs have considered this we need an urgent explanation as to why national guidelines have been relaxed to allow this.


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 8:49 am 
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More on housing. This also indicates the problem isn't one of lack of supply

https://voxeu.org/article/uk-house-pric ... and-future


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 8:54 am 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
More on housing. This also indicates the problem isn't one of lack of supply

https://voxeu.org/article/uk-house-pric ... and-future


Why are you keeping going on about this?

We have discussed this ad infinitum before and it is reasonable to say that the UK housing market is a law unto itself in there most part

Low interest rates, the type of houses available and where, lack of meaningful property taxes, societal changes are just some of the many factors

The question is not just of 'supply' in a simplistic sense but also the availability of affordable well-managed rental accommodation.


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 9:10 am 
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https://markneary1dotcom1.wordpress.com ... ssion=true

Two Years On: Another Fuck You to Personal Budget Experts


Certainly puts my slight hassle with HMRC over impossible debt into perspective.


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 9:19 am 
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Good morfternoon.


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 10:09 am 
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Cutting tuition fees.

Another amazingly dumb idea whose time has come.


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 10:24 am 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
Cutting tuition fees.

Another amazingly dumb idea whose time has come.


Again....why?

We have argued this to death and we will not all agree but I think we have absorbed all the differing arguments

Mind you, I very much doubt you pay attention to anybody else's views......

Are you just being provocative again?


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 10:28 am 
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My 'conspiracy theory of the day'

Why is there now a concerted move against the Labour leadership - dramatic headlines but no real substance worth the effors

Could it be there will be another move against the leadership by the right using Europe as the reason?

They have lost the leadership (three times now you could say), they have lost the membership, they have lost the NEC and now they are losing influence on policy (and thank bloody God for that I am not ashamed to say)

All they have now is this perceived split over Europe.......is this their 'last chance saloon'

May be complete shite....but maybe not


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 10:49 am 
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Do
Not
Feed
The
...

After all, how will our ineffective instinct defect on top of the category?

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LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 10:52 am 
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HindleA wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/feb/17/uk-brutal-prisons-failing-violence-drugs-gangs

Exclusive: shock figures reveal state of UK’s brutal prisons
Observer analysis of inspection reports shows two in five jails are unsafe and inadequate conditions prevail in two thirds

I wish we were shocked, but it's just par for the course. #ToriesOut

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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 10:55 am 
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howsillyofme1 wrote:
My 'conspiracy theory of the day'

Why is there now a concerted move against the Labour leadership - dramatic headlines but no real substance worth the effors

Could it be there will be another move against the leadership by the right using Europe as the reason?

They have lost the leadership (three times now you could say), they have lost the membership, they have lost the NEC and now they are losing influence on policy (and thank bloody God for that I am not ashamed to say)

All they have now is this perceived split over Europe.......is this their 'last chance saloon'

May be complete shite....but maybe not

Maybe just trying to distract us from May's appalling inadequacy.

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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 10:58 am 
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gilsey wrote:
HindleA wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/feb/17/uk-brutal-prisons-failing-violence-drugs-gangs

Exclusive: shock figures reveal state of UK’s brutal prisons
Observer analysis of inspection reports shows two in five jails are unsafe and inadequate conditions prevail in two thirds

I wish we were shocked, but it's just par for the course. #ToriesOut


It is just the 'collapse of the week' isn't it?

Whilst the media focuses on nonsense and Brexit is the only thing we are supposed to talk about, the Tories have managed to hollow out the societal fabric that holds together British society - Trump is doing the same in the US

Grenfell may as well never happened if we look at the interest now in actually doing something to prevent future consequences of cost-cutting (with cost at the heart of every decision, not quality).

The media (apart from some exceptions) is pathetic and labour are too busy still rowing with themselves to be as effective as they could be!


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 10:59 am 
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gilsey wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
My 'conspiracy theory of the day'

Why is there now a concerted move against the Labour leadership - dramatic headlines but no real substance worth the effors

Could it be there will be another move against the leadership by the right using Europe as the reason?

They have lost the leadership (three times now you could say), they have lost the membership, they have lost the NEC and now they are losing influence on policy (and thank bloody God for that I am not ashamed to say)

All they have now is this perceived split over Europe.......is this their 'last chance saloon'

May be complete shite....but maybe not

Maybe just trying to distract us from May's appalling inadequacy.


Perhaps....Occam's razor suggest it is more likely than my theory...


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 11:03 am 
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Well, even the ever reliably pro-establishment Andrew Marr was rubbishing the Barclaygraph "revelations" this morning apparently.


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 11:05 am 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Well, even the ever reliably pro-establishment Andrew Marr was rubbishing the Barclaygraph "revelations" this morning apparently.


It was also being treated as a bit of a laugh on the Robert Peston programme today.


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 11:06 am 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Well, even the ever reliably pro-establishment Andrew Marr was rubbishing the Barclaygraph "revelations" this morning apparently.



What are the actual accusations? Is he accused have being a foreign 'asset'?


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 11:07 am 
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SH evidently thinks that they are totally credible and very important, however. Draw your own conclusions......


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 11:19 am 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SH evidently thinks that they are totally credible and very important, however. Draw your own conclusions......



If you remember, what I actually said was why would anyone think it important in the light of what we already know about JC? It is trivia.


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 11:22 am 
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I am going to be a bit of a hypocrite here and bang on about an old subject :wall:

I have been reading UKPR and some of the exchanges after Verhofstadt's appearance on Marr this morning (not that I saw it though)

The thing that hits me is that perhaps Labour and the Tories are closer than we think they are - the leaderships anyway - on the short term plan

I think it all comes down to the transition deal - which I think is the critical subject at the moment as it is pretty much impossible to see how any deals will be in place for October

Labour have agreed to status quo for the transition and this is easy for them to sell to their party without comment. They are not given enough credit for this though as the main criticism comes from 'Remainers' who want them to go the whole hog and commit to the future state now (EEA/CU) - without being party to the negotiations. I think this next step is almost impossible to deliver (there may be some commitment to 'a custom's union) without being in the position to deliver and understanding what it will mean. The 'vassal state' argument has some merit and will be used.

May (and perhaps Davis) would possibly love to take the same position as Labour but can't because their opposition is from a very influential 'Leave' cohort.

The upshot is that May cannot deliver what she wants and Labour could but are not in power. In the short term at least

Both want to use the transition to be the breathing space to define the future state. At that point we will see a real divergence between the two parties I think, as Labour would probably go for a softer Brexit than the Tories.

By not being in power Labor have to be more cautious on making pronouncements about the future as they are cannot answer a lot of the questions without knowing if they are feasible. Could they negotiate an EEA/CU and have a say in the rules? I find it difficult to see how they can and they will only know if they are the ones negotiating.....

Quite a lot of chicken and egg here - whatever way we see it that the only hope for the country is to choose Labour over the Tories, because there is not a Rees-Mogg or Johnson to worry about.

Most of the criticism about Corbyn being pro-Brexit is based on historical comments and notes, there is little since the referendum that has been used against him.

The upshot is that anyone saying that Brexit is the most important thing should be supporting Labour (or the SNP or LD depending upon the seat). The Tories are not going to deliver what you want. Labour might but we will only know if we put them in power


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 11:24 am 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SH evidently thinks that they are totally credible and very important, however. Draw your own conclusions......



If you remember, what I actually said was why would anyone think it important in the light of what we already know about JC? It is trivia.


your insinuation was that it was true


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 11:30 am 
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howsillyofme1 wrote:
Most of the criticism about Corbyn being pro-Brexit is based on historical comments and notes, there is little since the referendum that has been used against him.

The upshot is that anyone saying that Brexit is the most important thing should be supporting Labour (or the SNP or LD depending upon the seat). The Tories are not going to deliver what you want. Labour might but we will only know if we put them in power


It is telling that the main talking point there is still his comments about A50 the weekend after the referendum. In the fraught aftermath of that vote, quite a few unwise and hasty things were said and done on all sides. Though many would say Corbyn's internal Labour opponents were more culpable than him there.


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 11:41 am 
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When Corbyn said, we must trigger A50 now, he meant, now that we've voted to leave the EU. Not now=today.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 11:43 am 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
[
It is telling that the main talking point there is still his comments about A50 the weekend after the referendum. In the fraught aftermath of that vote, quite a few unwise and hasty things were said and done on all sides. Though many would say Corbyn's internal Labour opponents were more culpable than him there.


Lol.

If Corbyn's words had been hasty, perhaps when he was tired, he could have withdrawn them. He never did. The PLP then led a doomed campaign to try and oust him, knowing full well that he would never campaign for the soft Brexit option of staying in the EEA.

The most significant evidence of Corbyn's hostility to the EU is the post-referendum farce.

Labour voted for art 50 without conditions, under a three line whip. That made Brexit inevitable.

There will not be a second referendum, because Corbyn has no interest in campaigning for one.

There was no attempt to mobilise a Parliamentary majority in favour of the single market: because Corbyn doesn't believe in it.

The NPF has been asked to take policy positions on all sorts of issues, except the most important: brexit.

Labour is still not in favour of remaining permanently in the customs union, despite that being inevitable unless we abandon Good Friday. Why might it be that Corbyn doesn't accept that?

"the real fight starts now" - Corbyn has ignored Brexit as much as he can.

We get this from frontbench people

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ain-europe

Even on the one issue he was good on (freedom of movement) he has backtracked,

So no, the 'main talking point' about Corbyn's attitude towards Brexit has not been what he said in the immediate atermath of the referendum, revealing as that was.

For decades before the referendum, during the campaign, and most obviously afterwards for those awake, his attitude is clear.

And who is to say he is wrong? Remainers have nowhere else to go, and blather about 'jobs first Brexit' and the patsy Starmer seem to have worked. Slightly more Remain-y than the Tories is Labour's electoral sweetspot and that is where it will stay.

Disastrous for the UK, but there we are, that is democracy for you.


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 12:06 pm 
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I may link the Guardian but don't think I have the same article at least three times.


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 12:07 pm 
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gilsey wrote:
When Corbyn said, we must trigger A50 now, he meant, now that we've voted to leave the EU. Not now=today.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.


That is certainly a credible interpretation of what he said.


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 12:09 pm 
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On the desperate attacks on Corbyn, it's worth remembering that there are important elections coming up.

As I've said before, they will probably be the most unpredictable and chaotic we've seen for a long time. One of the few near certainties is that the Tories will get hammered by Labour and the LibDems in London. But what if it's a bigger rout than that? May would perhaps struggle to survive.


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 12:13 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
gilsey wrote:
When Corbyn said, we must trigger A50 now, he meant, now that we've voted to leave the EU. Not now=today.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.


That is certainly a credible interpretation of what he said.


Rubbish. I listened to him on Today and on Sky on the day. He meant immediate trigger.

The only generous interpretation is that he didn't realise the significance of art 50.

Much more important is that when it came to the vote, Labour voted under a three line whip to trigger art 50 without conditions. With the resultant disaster we can now see coming.


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 12:13 pm 
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https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ain-brexit

Labour will win the next election if it becomes the party of Remain
Eloise Todd


So some keep saying.Have to say absolutely zero mention about the issue even tangentally or in passing,housing,UC,health is in my World outwith forum/Party.


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 12:15 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
On the desperate attacks on Corbyn, it's worth remembering that there are important elections coming up.

As I've said before, they will probably be the most unpredictable and chaotic we've seen for a long time. One of the few near certainties is that the Tories will get hammered by Labour and the LibDems in London. But what if it's a bigger rout than that? May would perhaps struggle to survive.


One thing in the Tories favour is that these elections weren't great for them four years ago, and even in their present state they should feed off the UKIP corpse in some areas (2014 was their high point electorally) to partly offset the expected losses elsewhere.

Its the 2019 elections that have the potential to be a real bloodbath for them as things stand.


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 12:26 pm 
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Corbyn seemed to make an error on that morning - my take on it was he was trying to use it to destabilise the Tories and Cameron in particular. The Tories were in turmoil and it might have played out better if Cameron had stuck around

The fact though was that resigning gave the Tories time to regroup

The A50 vote was a bit of an irrelevance to be honest - the timing was in the hands of May, the political situation at the time meant it was always going to pass as to defeat it would have been unthinkable for either of the main parties


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 12:26 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
On the desperate attacks on Corbyn, it's worth remembering that there are important elections coming up.

As I've said before, they will probably be the most unpredictable and chaotic we've seen for a long time. One of the few near certainties is that the Tories will get hammered by Labour and the LibDems in London. But what if it's a bigger rout than that? May would perhaps struggle to survive.


One thing in the Tories favour is that these elections weren't great for them four years ago, and even in their present state they should feed off the UKIP corpse in some areas (2014 was their high point electorally) to partly offset the expected losses elsewhere.

Its the 2019 elections that have the potential to be a real bloodbath for them as things stand.

Yes I think that's right. But I'm sure you agree they are hard to predict!


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 12:28 pm 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
[
It is telling that the main talking point there is still his comments about A50 the weekend after the referendum. In the fraught aftermath of that vote, quite a few unwise and hasty things were said and done on all sides. Though many would say Corbyn's internal Labour opponents were more culpable than him there.


Lol.

If Corbyn's words had been hasty, perhaps when he was tired, he could have withdrawn them. He never did. The PLP then led a doomed campaign to try and oust him, knowing full well that he would never campaign for the soft Brexit option of staying in the EEA.

The most significant evidence of Corbyn's hostility to the EU is the post-referendum farce.

Labour voted for art 50 without conditions, under a three line whip. That made Brexit inevitable.

There will not be a second referendum, because Corbyn has no interest in campaigning for one.

There was no attempt to mobilise a Parliamentary majority in favour of the single market: because Corbyn doesn't believe in it.

The NPF has been asked to take policy positions on all sorts of issues, except the most important: brexit.

Labour is still not in favour of remaining permanently in the customs union, despite that being inevitable unless we abandon Good Friday. Why might it be that Corbyn doesn't accept that?

"the real fight starts now" - Corbyn has ignored Brexit as much as he can.

We get this from frontbench people

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ain-europe

Even on the one issue he was good on (freedom of movement) he has backtracked,

So no, the 'main talking point' about Corbyn's attitude towards Brexit has not been what he said in the immediate atermath of the referendum, revealing as that was.

For decades before the referendum, during the campaign, and most obviously afterwards for those awake, his attitude is clear.

And who is to say he is wrong? Remainers have nowhere else to go, and blather about 'jobs first Brexit' and the patsy Starmer seem to have worked. Slightly more Remain-y than the Tories is Labour's electoral sweetspot and that is where it will stay.

Disastrous for the UK, but there we are, that is democracy for you.



Lol

No other comment needed


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 12:40 pm 
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You have to admire the slipping in of "anti-semitism" here which nobody had mentioned

https://twitter.com/pestononsunday/stat ... 9460529153

what a pro.

Rayner v Thornberry neck and neck. An exciting race!


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 12:40 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/18/labour-win-election-party-of-remain-brexit

Labour will win the next election if it becomes the party of Remain
Eloise Todd


So some keep saying.Have to say absolutely zero mention about the issue even tangentally or in passing,housing,UC,health is in my World outwith forum/Party.


I don't really get this article. The next election will be in 2022 after we have left (or possibly not left, I suppose) meaning no party will get to be "the party of remain". There will be the option of being "the party of rejoining" - Libdems/Greens - and "the party of soft Brexit" - hopefully Labour, though who knows - and, presumably, the Tories will be "the party of hard Brexit", though they were that last time and nearly lost so, again, who knows. But remaining? The only chance of remaining hangs on MPs preventing the government taking us out or May proving as incompetent at Brexiting as she has at everything else. I'm not especially hopeful, though Brexiter connections to far right Americans, Trump and Russian money could get interesting as the Mueller investigation develops.

_________________
“Find a nice, self sufficient hilltop, and fortify it.” - The Kraken Wakes


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 12:50 pm 
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I noticed this in Thornberry's words this morning

Quote:
I know that it's very difficult for us to remain in the single market as it currently is


Perhaps Hugo I'm not the only one who thinks there's room for some changes!


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 12:53 pm 
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I don't get why people don't get whether they like it or not it hardly dominates conversations and/or crucial in deciding which way to vote,despite their certainties as per "sweet spot"/a particular stance consequentials.


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 12:55 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
I noticed this in Thornberry's words this morning

Quote:
I know that it's very difficult for us to remain in the single market as it currently is


Perhaps Hugo I'm not the only one who thinks there's room for some changes!


Brilliant bit of signalling from Thornberry there.

I can only applaud.


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 12:57 pm 
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Far from being avoided in Labour terms it is reflective of that fact.


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