Still not radical enough. We have far far too many MPs. The only argument in favour of their bloated number is the payroll vote. So we need to cut the payroll and cut the number of MPs (both would be a good thing). The cabinet (and its shadow) are far too big with too many non-roles created for political purposes (hello Liam Fox and Barry Gardiner). We'll have fewer disasters like O'Mara and Morris if we had around 500 MPs (as an absolute maximum, my preference would be for around 350).
It goes almost without saying that we similarly need to cut the ridiculous number of members of the House of Lords. Aim for a combined total similar to that of the US Congress, around 435
You do know that the US is a federal structure don't you and there are large number of state politicians who take on a lot of the legislative burden
If you want to argue for a federal structure in the UK with much more power divested to local areas then you may have a point
After living in another country I suggest the UK is massively underrepresented, especially at the local level, and so any changes need to made with that in mind
You make no argument for a reduction, except with a flawed comparison and the usual sneers
If you actual made an intelligent comparison then we could debate but this is totally absentr from your discussion
Our representation doesn't seem to that excessive by comparison
The problem is not our number of MPs it is the paucity of local representation and engagement
Re: Monday 19th February 2018
Posted: Mon 19 Feb, 2018 3:21 pm
by AngryAsWell
SpinningHugo wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Who knew the GFA was failing ?
The GFA is not failing!
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Andrew AdonisVerified account
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BREXIT & IRELAND: Coordinated effort by Brexiters & DUP seems to be underway to end Good Friday Agreement. See statements by Arlene, Daniel Hannan & Owen Paterson (an ex NI Secretary!). This really is playing with fire.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
All to do with the Customs Union. If you want to keep the GFA then you have to stay in the Customs Union (and not just on a transition basis).
No doubt the current Labour Labour leadership will come out in full throated support of the GFA, and accept the inevitable consequence of permanently remaining in the Customs Union. [Owen Smith will of course, but he is Core Group Hostile.]
I know and understand their reasons, the concern is not if-how-weather we stay in CU, SM or EU.
The very real concern is that these idiots are trashing/about to trash the GFA for political ends.
Not a place anyone in their right mind should aspire to go to.
Re: Monday 19th February 2018
Posted: Mon 19 Feb, 2018 3:24 pm
by AngryAsWell
Boris Johnson compares dead monkey head to Labour backbencher
They shouldn't have sold it off because it makes no economic sense to do so. a political move to lower the headline debt figure
We do not usually know the terms of sale ('commercial confidentiality') and the ompanies who now own the debt are likely to want to maximise their return (unlike the Government who have never really cared - it is an accounting trick to pretend they are not increasing the debt). Such companies have not always been known to be particularly caring in their manner of recouping their debt, the debtor is not always clear who now owns their debt and also the scope for exploitative interest rates is not always clear
Re: Monday 19th February 2018
Posted: Mon 19 Feb, 2018 3:42 pm
by AnatolyKasparov
AngryAsWell wrote:Boris Johnson compares dead monkey head to Labour backbencher
The launch of the new Renew party doesn't seem to have been a total success.
I'm not 100% sure of their slogan.
Re: Monday 19th February 2018
Posted: Mon 19 Feb, 2018 4:17 pm
by PaulfromYorkshire
I'm been batting it around and I'm sorry I can't deal with "fairer" in the sense I think they meant it. A situation is either fair or it isn't for me.
Which then leaves my brain automatically associating "fairer" with complexion and hair, which I'm guessing wasn't quite what they were aiming at.
Re: Monday 19th February 2018
Posted: Mon 19 Feb, 2018 4:26 pm
by SpinningHugo
AngryAsWell wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Who knew the GFA was failing ?
The GFA is not failing!
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Andrew AdonisVerified account
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BREXIT & IRELAND: Coordinated effort by Brexiters & DUP seems to be underway to end Good Friday Agreement. See statements by Arlene, Daniel Hannan & Owen Paterson (an ex NI Secretary!). This really is playing with fire.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
All to do with the Customs Union. If you want to keep the GFA then you have to stay in the Customs Union (and not just on a transition basis).
No doubt the current Labour Labour leadership will come out in full throated support of the GFA, and accept the inevitable consequence of permanently remaining in the Customs Union. [Owen Smith will of course, but he is Core Group Hostile.]
I know and understand their reasons, the concern is not if-how-weather we stay in CU, SM or EU.
The very real concern is that these idiots are trashing/about to trash the GFA for political ends.
Not a place anyone in their right mind should aspire to go to.
Plenty on the far left and far right who have never accepted Good Friday.
“an assembly is not what people have laid down their lives for over thirty years… the settlement must be for a united Ireland.”
Re: Monday 19th February 2018
Posted: Mon 19 Feb, 2018 4:32 pm
by howsillyofme1
Plenty on the far left and far right who have never accepted Good Friday.
“an assembly is not what people have laid down their lives for over thirty years… the settlement must be for a united Ireland.
I know some on the right did and there were some extremists in the IRA
Who on the left did though?
I think Sinn Felin are pretty keen on a United Ireland too but seem okay with it
Re: Monday 19th February 2018
Posted: Mon 19 Feb, 2018 4:37 pm
by HindleA
You're meaning it now,stop it.
Re: Monday 19th February 2018
Posted: Mon 19 Feb, 2018 4:44 pm
by PaulfromYorkshire
howsillyofme1 wrote:
Plenty on the far left and far right who have never accepted Good Friday.
“an assembly is not what people have laid down their lives for over thirty years… the settlement must be for a united Ireland.
I know some on the right did and there were some extremists in the IRA
Who on the left did though?
I think Sinn Felin are pretty keen on a United Ireland too but seem okay with it
Re: Monday 19th February 2018
Posted: Mon 19 Feb, 2018 4:48 pm
by PaulfromYorkshire
SpinningHugo wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
All to do with the Customs Union. If you want to keep the GFA then you have to stay in the Customs Union (and not just on a transition basis).
No doubt the current Labour Labour leadership will come out in full throated support of the GFA, and accept the inevitable consequence of permanently remaining in the Customs Union. [Owen Smith will of course, but he is Core Group Hostile.]
I know and understand their reasons, the concern is not if-how-weather we stay in CU, SM or EU.
The very real concern is that these idiots are trashing/about to trash the GFA for political ends.
Not a place anyone in their right mind should aspire to go to.
Plenty on the far left and far right who have never accepted Good Friday.
“an assembly is not what people have laid down their lives for over thirty years… the settlement must be for a united Ireland.”
Thankfully, the party has not chosen a leader who said that.
Re: Monday 19th February 2018
Posted: Mon 19 Feb, 2018 4:52 pm
by HindleA
"Great minds think alike/fools seldom differ"
Re: Monday 19th February 2018
Posted: Mon 19 Feb, 2018 4:54 pm
by SpinningHugo
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
Plenty on the far left and far right who have never accepted Good Friday.
“an assembly is not what people have laid down their lives for over thirty years… the settlement must be for a united Ireland.”
Thankfully, the party has not chosen a leader who said that.
Depends who you think the de facto leader of the Labour party is.
Re: Monday 19th February 2018
Posted: Mon 19 Feb, 2018 5:00 pm
by HindleA
HR Pufnstuff
Re: Monday 19th February 2018
Posted: Mon 19 Feb, 2018 5:12 pm
by PaulfromYorkshire
SpinningHugo wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
Plenty on the far left and far right who have never accepted Good Friday.
“an assembly is not what people have laid down their lives for over thirty years… the settlement must be for a united Ireland.”
Thankfully, the party has not chosen a leader who said that.
Depends who you think the de facto leader of the Labour party is.
Oh you've made it quite clear that it's Seumas Milne. And he didn't say that either
Re: Monday 19th February 2018
Posted: Mon 19 Feb, 2018 5:15 pm
by AnatolyKasparov
Do. Not. Feed.
Re: Monday 19th February 2018
Posted: Mon 19 Feb, 2018 5:17 pm
by PorFavor
Fracking row: Treasury 'showing shambolic conflict of interest'
Director of Third Energy, which wants to frack in North Yorkshire, is Conservative donor
Campaigners have accused the Treasury of allowing the appearance of a conflict of interest over its examination of an energy company at the forefront of fracking in the UK.
Third Energy’s financial health is being looked at by a Treasury body, the Infrastructure and Projects Authority (IPA), whose findings will inform whether the government gives the firm a green light.
But Third Energy’s newest director, Conservative party peer and donor Jitesh Gadhia, is also a non-executive director at another Treasury body, UK Government Investments. One of UKGI’s roles is to provide advice to the government on dealing with financially distressed businesses.
Rose Dickinson, a Friends of the Earth campaigner, said: “This seems a conflict of interest. Not only that, it looks fairly shambolic." (Guardian)
(I closed the Rose Dickinson quote myself - just in case the Guardian thought to sue me for misquoting their quote. If you follow . . .)
There is a big difference to someone opposing the GFA and seeing it as a stepping stone to a United Ireland
Northern Ireland was created out of violence and the threat of violence, unfortunately echoing much of Irish history - the GFA will hopefully lead to a future United Ireland that is agreed through peaceful means - something we would not have said a generation ago
Re: Monday 19th February 2018
Posted: Mon 19 Feb, 2018 5:27 pm
by howsillyofme1
If he is recognised as a troll by all then he should be banned - if he isn't considered to be so by the mods and members then he should be allowed to post and those of us who think he writes shite (which is most I think) should not be discouraged from engaging him
I personally think he is a malevolent little troll but I know I am in the minority
Have you noticed that he posts provocative statements which are challenged strongly and then never returns to argue his position - he just posts another provocative post?
Truly pathetic
Re: Monday 19th February 2018
Posted: Mon 19 Feb, 2018 5:40 pm
by 55DegreesNorth
howsillyofme1 wrote:If he is recognised as a troll by all then he should be banned - if he isn't considered to be so by the mods and members then he should be allowed to post and those of us who think he writes shite (which is most I think) should not be discouraged from engaging him
I personally think he is a malevolent little troll but I know I am in the minority
Have you noticed that he posts provocative statements which are challenged strongly and then never returns to argue his position - he just posts another provocative post?
Truly pathetic
He is a troll and an arse, but occasionally provokes people to articulate their position in detail. This usually makes him look a proper Rodney, but is helpful to others. I know moderation is a pain in the tits, but just pulling his needlessly sneering and provocative posts might guide him towards a more constructive approach. If it doesn’t, ban the git.
Re: Monday 19th February 2018
Posted: Mon 19 Feb, 2018 5:46 pm
by tinyclanger2
@SGO
I leave Leeds for one day and then this happens...
Plenty on the far left and far right who have never accepted Good Friday.
“an assembly is not what people have laid down their lives for over thirty years… the settlement must be for a united Ireland.”
You quote someone from Sinn Fein insinuating it was Seumas Milne and have provided no evidence that these so-called 'left-wingers' oppose the GFA.
The GFA was put in place in order to allow the 30 years of violence to be ended and to reach an accommodation to allow power-sharing in NI, including a commitment to end violence and the armed struggle
It has been difficult but has achieved much - thanks to which go to a number of different politicians from different parties and countries - often at significant personal risk
It also set out how unification of the island of Ireland could be achieved
For those in Sinn Fein and others (including me I may add) who think that is the best solution for the future then it is indeed a stepping stone, or an accommodation. It is definitely not a settled question and there is a mechanism for unification
Your posts on this have been mendacious and pathetic
Re: Monday 19th February 2018
Posted: Mon 19 Feb, 2018 6:38 pm
by tinyclanger2
The issue is not about whether Hugo is a troll it's about whether we ban people for potentially being one. What does a banning policy look like? It's tricky to decide and implement. And in the end it boils down to this:
Which side do you fall on? Would you rather risk banning someone (from a public forum) who was struggling to communicate because you thought them a troll? Or tolerate having the odd troll to avoid that risk? I have said it many times now in many ways - if we stop engaging with him, there's a chance he may get bored. Certainly he won't be able to dominate the board as he does now.
Personally I waver between one and the other, depending on how bored I am with it at the time. But I find it pretty easy not to respond.
Re: Monday 19th February 2018
Posted: Mon 19 Feb, 2018 6:40 pm
by howsillyofme1
tinyclanger2 wrote:The issue is not about whether Hugo is a troll it's about whether we ban people for potentially being one. What does a banning policy look like? It's tricky to decide and implement. And in the end it boils down to this:
Which side do you fall on? Would you rather risk banning someone who was struggling to communicate because you thought them a troll? Or tolerate having the odd troll to avoid that risk? I have said it many times now in many ways - if we stop engaging with him, there's a chance he may get bored. Certainly he won't be able to dominate the board as he does now.
I think after the amount of time there is pretty much no doubt what he is
I don't do 'not engaging' unfortunately.......I can't stop myself - the only way is to stop posting myself and avoiding the board which I do not want to do
Re: Monday 19th February 2018
Posted: Mon 19 Feb, 2018 6:41 pm
by tinyclanger2
Though, having said that, it's fair to say that underneath an exponential objects the peanut analogue.
Re: Monday 19th February 2018
Posted: Mon 19 Feb, 2018 6:45 pm
by tinyclanger2
howsillyofme1 wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:The issue is not about whether Hugo is a troll it's about whether we ban people for potentially being one. What does a banning policy look like? It's tricky to decide and implement. And in the end it boils down to this:
Which side do you fall on? Would you rather risk banning someone who was struggling to communicate because you thought them a troll? Or tolerate having the odd troll to avoid that risk? I have said it many times now in many ways - if we stop engaging with him, there's a chance he may get bored. Certainly he won't be able to dominate the board as he does now.
I think after the amount of time there is pretty much no doubt what he is
I don't do 'not engaging' unfortunately.......I can't stop myself - the only way is to stop posting myself and avoiding the board which I do not want to do
Nor do I, but when we have a Hugoathon, I tend to do so.
Re: Monday 19th February 2018
Posted: Mon 19 Feb, 2018 6:57 pm
by tinyclanger2
We could have a poll:
ban
ignore
carry on as normal
Re: Monday 19th February 2018
Posted: Mon 19 Feb, 2018 6:57 pm
by tinyclanger2
I use the term normal loosely
obv
Re: Monday 19th February 2018
Posted: Mon 19 Feb, 2018 7:01 pm
by citizenJA
tinyclanger2 wrote:I use the term normal loosely
obv
thank you for that qualifier
rhymes with ring of fire
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UKIP leader's reasoning for Brexit: "we want British fish for British fish and chips".
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Re: Monday 19th February 2018
Posted: Mon 19 Feb, 2018 8:30 pm
by citizenJA
Goodnight, everyone
love,
cJA
Re: Monday 19th February 2018
Posted: Mon 19 Feb, 2018 8:30 pm
by AngryAsWell
Mirror PoliticsVerified account
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Tory MP deletes tweet accusing Jeremy Corbyn of 'selling British secrets to Communist spies' after Labour leader threatens legal action
Steve PeersVerified account
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Lots more people have pointed out that your account of Northern Irish political history gets many basic facts wrong. I don't see any corrections from you.
The issue for me isn't that you're a Brexiter (I like the Brexiters I know IRL). It's that you're a charlatan.
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Re: Monday 19th February 2018
Posted: Mon 19 Feb, 2018 8:33 pm
by PorFavor
@citizenJA
Night night.
Re: Monday 19th February 2018
Posted: Mon 19 Feb, 2018 9:04 pm
by PorFavor
Night night.
Re: Monday 19th February 2018
Posted: Mon 19 Feb, 2018 9:05 pm
by PorFavor
Don't forget - PTO.
Re: Monday 19th February 2018
Posted: Mon 19 Feb, 2018 9:07 pm
by tinyclanger2
AngryAsWell wrote:Catherine BearderVerified account
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UKIP leader's reasoning for Brexit: "we want British fish for British fish and chips".
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Unfortunate how quickly and completely the word "British" has become a joke.
