Tuesday 20th February 2018
Posted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 7:10 am
Morning all.
More interesting than the headline suggests. Gives a glimpse of the Brexit train wreck from inside government:David Davis: bullish wheel-greaser or Brexit fall guy?
The Brexit secretary started the negotiations to exit the EU full of bounce and bluster – but No 10 subterfuge and hard economic reality have taken their toll
The decision to invoke article 50 by March 2017 was made quickly and with little consultation. Even top civil servants at the heart of the Brexit process were given just 24 hours’ notice of Downing Street’s intention to publicly set the clock ticking and commit the country to a historic departure come what may.
Nervous officials responded by putting more of their advice in writing so that there was an audit trail of what they felt was a “major strategic and tactical mistake” to trigger the start of exit negotiations so early. “[The prime minister] is going to turn around to us in the middle of 2017 and say, ‘Why the hell didn’t you tell me that before?’” one of her top advisers was warned. “We are not educating her fast enough about the reality.”
Thanks Willow, quite a long read but well worth it . A few of the many posssible snippets --Willow904 wrote:https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ssion=true
More interesting than the headline suggests. Gives a glimpse of the Brexit train wreck from inside government:David Davis: bullish wheel-greaser or Brexit fall guy?
The Brexit secretary started the negotiations to exit the EU full of bounce and bluster – but No 10 subterfuge and hard economic reality have taken their toll
The decision to invoke article 50 by March 2017 was made quickly and with little consultation. Even top civil servants at the heart of the Brexit process were given just 24 hours’ notice of Downing Street’s intention to publicly set the clock ticking and commit the country to a historic departure come what may.
Nervous officials responded by putting more of their advice in writing so that there was an audit trail of what they felt was a “major strategic and tactical mistake” to trigger the start of exit negotiations so early. “[The prime minister] is going to turn around to us in the middle of 2017 and say, ‘Why the hell didn’t you tell me that before?’” one of her top advisers was warned. “We are not educating her fast enough about the reality.”
What an unbelievable disaster triggering article 50 without conditions was. Nobody can say they were not told.Willow904 wrote:https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ssion=true
More interesting than the headline suggests. Gives a glimpse of the Brexit train wreck from inside government:David Davis: bullish wheel-greaser or Brexit fall guy?
The Brexit secretary started the negotiations to exit the EU full of bounce and bluster – but No 10 subterfuge and hard economic reality have taken their toll
The decision to invoke article 50 by March 2017 was made quickly and with little consultation. Even top civil servants at the heart of the Brexit process were given just 24 hours’ notice of Downing Street’s intention to publicly set the clock ticking and commit the country to a historic departure come what may.
Nervous officials responded by putting more of their advice in writing so that there was an audit trail of what they felt was a “major strategic and tactical mistake” to trigger the start of exit negotiations so early. “[The prime minister] is going to turn around to us in the middle of 2017 and say, ‘Why the hell didn’t you tell me that before?’” one of her top advisers was warned. “We are not educating her fast enough about the reality.”
Yes the Mad Max comment reminded me of times when I thought I'd plan something nice for the family, didn't check with them they actually wanted it and ignored warning signs from my wife.Willow904 wrote:https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ssion=true
More interesting than the headline suggests. Gives a glimpse of the Brexit train wreck from inside government:David Davis: bullish wheel-greaser or Brexit fall guy?
The Brexit secretary started the negotiations to exit the EU full of bounce and bluster – but No 10 subterfuge and hard economic reality have taken their toll
The decision to invoke article 50 by March 2017 was made quickly and with little consultation. Even top civil servants at the heart of the Brexit process were given just 24 hours’ notice of Downing Street’s intention to publicly set the clock ticking and commit the country to a historic departure come what may.
Nervous officials responded by putting more of their advice in writing so that there was an audit trail of what they felt was a “major strategic and tactical mistake” to trigger the start of exit negotiations so early. “[The prime minister] is going to turn around to us in the middle of 2017 and say, ‘Why the hell didn’t you tell me that before?’” one of her top advisers was warned. “We are not educating her fast enough about the reality.”
If true, it makes the underlying Tory position worse not better.SpinningHugo wrote:Youthquake
https://www.ncpolitics.uk/2018/02/%E2%8 ... uake.html/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
makes the Tory proposals on tuition fees even more bonkers.
AnatolyKasparov wrote:If true, it makes the underlying Tory position worse not better.SpinningHugo wrote:Youthquake
https://www.ncpolitics.uk/2018/02/%E2%8 ... uake.html/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
makes the Tory proposals on tuition fees even more bonkers.
Well, the BEC only had a small sample of young voters in their survey and that's why that finding got questioned.SpinningHugo wrote:AnatolyKasparov wrote:If true, it makes the underlying Tory position worse not better.SpinningHugo wrote:Youthquake
https://www.ncpolitics.uk/2018/02/%E2%8 ... uake.html/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
makes the Tory proposals on tuition fees even more bonkers.
of course, that being the point.
Why would it not be true? Surely the data is all now in?
I assume you mean BES, but we're surely at the point of accepting that those criticisms have no statistical credibility. See the link I gave andAnatolyKasparov wrote:
Well, the BEC only had a small sample of young voters in their survey and that's why that finding got questioned.
SpinningHugo wrote:Very useful indeed on landbanks and unimplemented planning permissions being the cause of the housing crisis
http://lichfields.uk/blog/2018/february ... ons-again/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
AngryAsWell wrote:Brexit and food - what could it all mean for the British baked potato?
(On R4 now)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I've only skimmed this as I'm on my way out.SpinningHugo wrote:Very useful indeed on landbanks and unimplemented planning permissions being the cause of the housing crisis
http://lichfields.uk/blog/2018/february ... ons-again/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
*speed, presumablyPeter Walker
Liam Fox, the international trade secretary, has given a speech to the conference of the EEF, which represents manufacturers, and it’s fair to say it wasn’t full of new insights.
Brexit would bring no new trade barriers, Fox said - but added that he could not as yet give any details as to precisely what the government’s strategy for it was. With that, he bounded off on the stage towards an exit at such speech[sic]* - that not even a hand could be raised for a question. (Politics Live, Guardian)
Indeed, very few things have only a single cause.howsillyofme1 wrote:SpinningHugo wrote:Very useful indeed on landbanks and unimplemented planning permissions being the cause of the housing crisis
http://lichfields.uk/blog/2018/february ... ons-again/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
'the cause' - what the only one and nothing else matters?
How about using 'a cause' or 'a significant cause'?
See also this (long) thread I saw yesterday.frog222 wrote:The political class can’t cope with the complexity of it.
Then there was Dorries the other day saying we must leave the CU because it's so complicated. Dear me.Garreth Hayes
@garrethhayes
Feb 18
More
That’s why Brexiteers seem helpless now they need to come up with their own policy solutions. Because policy requires detail. And Brexit is about denying the need for detail /8
More
Asking a Brexiteer to be specific about detail is like asking a whale to describe a space rocket /10
gilsey wrote:See also this (long) thread I saw yesterday.frog222 wrote:The political class can’t cope with the complexity of it.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;Then there was Dorries the other day saying we must leave the CU because it's so complicated. Dear me.Garreth Hayes
@garrethhayes
Feb 18
More
That’s why Brexiteers seem helpless now they need to come up with their own policy solutions. Because policy requires detail. And Brexit is about denying the need for detail /8
More
Asking a Brexiteer to be specific about detail is like asking a whale to describe a space rocket /10
However low an opinion of the political class we have, she really must be near the bottom of the scale.
in the physical universe in which you find yourself, nothing can be the sole cause of anything other than itself. X+0 = XAnatolyKasparov wrote: Indeed, very few things have only a single cause.
a marginally interesting snippet of a by-gone era which no longer exits......of no relevance to the current day and definitely not front page newsSpinningHugo wrote:More on Special Agent Corbyn
http://littleatoms.com/corbyns-spy-connection-and-me" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Yes, this is basically correct.howsillyofme1 wrote:a marginally interesting snippet of a by-gone era which no longer exits......of no relevance to the current day and definitely not front page newsSpinningHugo wrote:More on Special Agent Corbyn
http://littleatoms.com/corbyns-spy-connection-and-me" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Asked how Labour’s position on Brexit differed to that of the government, Corbyn said: “We have to have access to European markets, we have to have a customs union that makes sure we can continue that trade, particularly between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. That is key to it.”
He continued: “Being a member of the single market is automatic if you’re a member of the EU. If we’re not in the EU, we’re not automatically a member of it.
I'm a bit in two minds about this one, ridiculing these types is rarely a bad thing and it can be argued there is a touch of that here.howsillyofme1 wrote:and me again
I find this journalism really offensive. These people were apparently members of a vicious organisation and should be brought to justice but they have been given this puerile nickname
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... rned-to-uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Do you agree that this seems to trivialise the alleged actions of these men?
not thought of that....still don't approve but you may have a point thereAnatolyKasparov wrote:I'm a bit in two minds about this one, ridiculing these types is rarely a bad thing and it can be argued there is a touch of that here.howsillyofme1 wrote:and me again
I find this journalism really offensive. These people were apparently members of a vicious organisation and should be brought to justice but they have been given this puerile nickname
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... rned-to-uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Do you agree that this seems to trivialise the alleged actions of these men?
The Parliament, spearheaded by its Brexit spokesperson Guy Verhofstadt, wants negotiations on the future relationship to focus on overall structures, rather than country-specific models such as the Canada option.
...Because of this, they must be ratified by the European Parliament, European Council, and the national and regional parliaments of all 27 member states. With this in mind, a comprehensive UK-EU association agreement would likely be similar to the EU-Canada free trade deal (CETA), which took a total of seven years to finally sign off.
are you a member of the Labour PartySpinningHugo wrote:Poor old Ann Black
http://www.annblack.co.uk/national-poli ... uary-2018/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
sad really.