Wednesday 21st February 2018
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Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
Wednesday 21st February 2018
Morning all.
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Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
Day 3 .All watching Only Connect.
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Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
Which I would imagine would be nigh impossible for a fish.Then again I may be presuming and as far as I know I am not a fish.
Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
Robert Peston
@Peston
15h
Government re-imposes direct rule from Westminster of Northern Ireland for - it hopes - a temporary period, as I warned was on cards a fortnight ago. Serious and troubling moment
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
Health department 'ignoring UK life expectancy concerns'
https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... y-concerns" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... y-concerns" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-43121680" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The official line is this isn't direct rule. But it is, really, isn't it? I think Peston is right, if Westminster makes a decision re budgets, it's direct rule whatever the government want to call it and worse still it's direct rule without a declaration of direct rule that interested parties can respond to, it's direct rule by the back door, through absence of governmental action.Addressing MPs on Tuesday, Mrs Bradley said: "I intend to take steps to provide clarity on the budget and will update the House (of Commons) as soon as possible.
"This is clearly not where I want to be but in the absence of an executive I have no other choice."
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
Seems quiet this morning.
I'm worried!
#PMQs to "look forward to" later I suppose
I'm worried!
#PMQs to "look forward to" later I suppose
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Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
Actually some good Qs on NI would be very sensible. Answers needed.
One question would be, to what extent has Arleen Foster been consulted on......
One question would be, to what extent has Arleen Foster been consulted on......
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Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... commission" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
MPs refuse to endorse former Tory minister as head of Charity Commission
MPs refuse to endorse former Tory minister as head of Charity Commission
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Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-43112650" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
DNA secrets of how vampire bats became bloodthirsty
DNA secrets of how vampire bats became bloodthirsty
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Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-43131918" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Scunthorpe campaigner hands in better disabled toilets petition
Scunthorpe campaigner hands in better disabled toilets petition
Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
Good morfternoon.
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Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
Ministers set to ignore objections and appoint anyway,apparently.
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Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
Britain Elects@britainelects
13 minutes ago
London local election voting intention:
LAB: 54% (+16)
CON: 28% (+2)
LDEM: 11% (-)
GRN: 4% (-6)
UKIP: 2% (-7)
via @YouGov, 12 - 15 Feb
Chgs. w/ 2014 results
13 minutes ago
London local election voting intention:
LAB: 54% (+16)
CON: 28% (+2)
LDEM: 11% (-)
GRN: 4% (-6)
UKIP: 2% (-7)
via @YouGov, 12 - 15 Feb
Chgs. w/ 2014 results
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Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
We don't normally bother with polls on here (rightly in my view) but that one is too striking to ignore I suppose.
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Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Britain Elects@britainelects
13 minutes ago
London local election voting intention:
LAB: 54% (+16)
CON: 28% (+2)
LDEM: 11% (-)
GRN: 4% (-6)
UKIP: 2% (-7)
via @YouGov, 12 - 15 Feb
Chgs. w/ 2014 results
Grenfell. I expect they'll lose control of Westminster. Corbyn is much less of a drag at local level.
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Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
Yes and follows nicely from our discussion about the locals the other day.AnatolyKasparov wrote:We don't normally bother with polls on here (rightly in my view) but that one is too striking to ignore I suppose.
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Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
Morning
Don't have any time for polls as they are never tested outside elections an are normally wrong. We will wait and see but I think the indications are that Labour will make gains in the capital (although we will not take Westminster after our own version of Mystic Mogg has said we probably will)
Don't have any time for polls as they are never tested outside elections an are normally wrong. We will wait and see but I think the indications are that Labour will make gains in the capital (although we will not take Westminster after our own version of Mystic Mogg has said we probably will)
And what shit is this? - the only election I can remember Labour getting much better share of the vote than in 2017 was 1997 - not much of a drag, although you will make some completely unsupported (and actually pretty ridiculous) claim that 'Labour should be 20 points ahead'Corbyn is much less of a drag at local level.
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Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
Well Labour got hammered here for various reasons,you can choose which one to "prioritise" to suit,what it has done is rejuvenate,certainly me in activity.Though,I still can't get to regular meetings but "following".
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Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
Having more members under 50 than called Skinner would be a good start.(Nothing against the surname Skinner,clarification)
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Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
SH praised former MP for her "independent" stance re fracking,not sure if he would have the same view as per voting for referendum.
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Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
She was pro-fracking, her Tory opponent last year was anti.HindleA wrote:SH praised former MP for her "independent" stance re fracking,not sure if he would have the same view as per voting for referendum.
Whilst as we all know the seat is trending Tory long term anyway, that makes the result still more explicable.
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Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
She was also increasingly disconnected from members and broader community,rather going through the motions.
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Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
Not much evidence he is much of a "drag" at any level in the capital.SpinningHugo wrote:Corbyn is much less of a drag at local level
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Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
Though Rowley,thoroughly untrustworthy,hopefully this will become more exposed.
Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
Good-afternoon, everyone
Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
I've been out of it for awhile, feeling better now
The news looks interesting
The news looks interesting
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Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2018/02/ ... it-appeals" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
DWP goes back to court to block future benefit appeals
DWP goes back to court to block future benefit appeals
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Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
http://www.welfareconditionality.ac.uk/ ... iscretion/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Specialist welfare rights advice practitioner and trainer Sarah Batty outlines her 2017 research into the impact of welfare reforms on social tenants in the North East
Specialist welfare rights advice practitioner and trainer Sarah Batty outlines her 2017 research into the impact of welfare reforms on social tenants in the North East
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Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/e ... d0e12d4b85" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Brexit Must Not Mean We Lose Out On Access To Healthcare Abroad
This is important for workers, students, the retired, holiday makers – millions of UK and EU citizens
Brexit Must Not Mean We Lose Out On Access To Healthcare Abroad
This is important for workers, students, the retired, holiday makers – millions of UK and EU citizens
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Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
That is actually a risk in becoming a Deputy Speaker. You are largely depoliticised, but this isn't recognised "officially" in the way the actual Speaker position is.HindleA wrote:She was also increasingly disconnected from members and broader community,rather going through the motions.
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Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
Good to see Unison continue their grants/awards towards OU courses and involvement in education in general.
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Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
This is clearly right
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... t-atrocity" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... t-atrocity" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
http://www.open.edu/openlearn/history-t ... iption-tab" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
We "shrug" largely because there is no magical solution we can impose there.SpinningHugo wrote:This is clearly right
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... t-atrocity" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
There was perhaps a very narrow window for careful, targeted intervention in Syria (and against Assad) soon after the start of the Arab Spring.
By the time we got round considering anything in the autumn of 2013, that opportunity had already gone.
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Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
AnatolyKasparov wrote:We "shrug" largely because there is no magical solution we can impose there.SpinningHugo wrote:This is clearly right
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... t-atrocity" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
There was perhaps a very narrow window for careful, targeted intervention in Syria (and against Assad) soon after the start of the Arab Spring.
By the time we got round considering anything in the autumn of 2013, that opportunity had already gone.
I think that is rot, am attempt to deny responsibility.
Actions have consequences, but so do inactions. There was no easy choice, and now we have to accept the bad consequences, rather than just shrug, turning away.
I don't mind people defending action or inaction. What I mind very much are people who think the choice easy, and then deny the consequences.
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Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
In other news, the German Stasi archives have announced that they hold no records that relate to either Corbyn or Abbott.
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Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
I think that is rotSpinningHugo wrote:AnatolyKasparov wrote:We "shrug" largely because there is no magical solution we can impose there.SpinningHugo wrote:This is clearly right
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... t-atrocity" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
There was perhaps a very narrow window for careful, targeted intervention in Syria (and against Assad) soon after the start of the Arab Spring.
By the time we got round considering anything in the autumn of 2013, that opportunity had already gone.
I think that is rot, am attempt to deny responsibility.
Actions have consequences, but so do inactions. There was no easy choice, and now we have to accept the bad consequences, rather than just shrug, turning away.
I don't mind people defending action or inaction. What I mind very much are people who think the choice easy, and then deny the consequences.
The article itself is okay as far as the sentiment goes but Freedland doesn't really take it anywhere and doesn't say what we could have or should have done - he sort of mentions interventions but then doesn't take it that far because he has no real argument as to what difference it would have made and how that intervention would have taken shape
It is you I suggest who think the choice is easy - we intervene (somehow) and everything will all be great and all the baddies will go away. Arnie and Stallone made millions appealing to this simplistic view of the world
There may have been a point at some time when some sort of intervention could have made a difference but we will never know and the record of Western intervention in civil wars is now what that covers itself in glory
Intervention means soldiers on the ground, it means body bags containing other people's children and it usually means years of stalemate. We intervened in Afghanistan 15 years ago and the Taliban are still there
The reasons for war are often many years in the making and just a catalyst is needed. then the common thing, especially in the Middle East, is we go back to the Great Game and everyone piles in with weapons and 'advisors' which are then used to blow the crap out of anything that moves for years- and in the end we generally achieve nothing
One bit of intervening we could do without is putting huge amount of weaponry into theatre - the Syrians and their opponents do not possess huge weapon's factories as far as I know so the huge amount of explosives dropped on there must have come from somewhere - and we are a major exporter of death and destructions aren't we?
Wars are a result of human evil and the inability to respect one another. I would hesitate to say that they are inevitable but history suggests strongly they are - what we can do is to promote institutions that work to prevent war and not use other countries in proxy wars against others or sell weaponry into troubleshpots. Sometimes intervention will be needed but the reality is it will be in only certain cases and only if will not escalate
Putting ground troops into he Middle East in the current situation would possibly lead to a severe escalation that would be existentially threatening - note the threats coming against Iran now.....Syria is yesterday's news I am afraid - the Great Game has moved on. The best thing for Syria would be a rapid end to the war - probably with Assad still in charge. Sad thing is that without our 'intervention' we would probably have got to the same outcome much sooner
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Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
SpinningHugo wrote:AnatolyKasparov wrote:We "shrug" largely because there is no magical solution we can impose there.SpinningHugo wrote:This is clearly right
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... t-atrocity" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
There was perhaps a very narrow window for careful, targeted intervention in Syria (and against Assad) soon after the start of the Arab Spring.
By the time we got round considering anything in the autumn of 2013, that opportunity had already gone.
I think that is rot, am attempt to deny responsibility.
Actions have consequences, but so do inactions. There was no easy choice, and now we have to accept the bad consequences, rather than just shrug, turning away.
I don't mind people defending action or inaction. What I mind very much are people who think the choice easy, and then deny the consequences.
I love the way to try to move 'responsibility' to people who opposed armed intervention. by that I am sure you are aiming at Milibandand Corbyn - although it was Tory rebels who actually allowed them to do so
The responsibility lies with Assad and those who supported him for years. It also lies with those people who decided it was a good opportunity to fight a few proxy wars and put lots of weaponry into theatre
I have yet seen any credible definition of what intervention would have looked like and what it would achieve. In the end the US dropped large amounts of bombs on the country but the Generals knew putting soldiers on the ground would require massive resources and it never happened.
Would you have gone to fight the Syrians, Russians and Iranians if we had voted to go in - or is it just other people who would do the fighting?
Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
For SpinngHugo, who was worried people aren't interested.Jeremy Corbyn
@jeremycorbyn
·
4h
The suffering of Syrians must end. I fully support the UN’s demand for an immediate ceasefire. And I urge all countries to support these efforts. There can be no long-lasting peace in Syria and the region without an inclusive agreement, negotiated through the UN.
Of course people are interested, but as with the Rohingya crisis, if the regime responsible is uncooperative what exactly can be done but to try to keep lines of communication open and try to keep pressure on them to desist?
These things don't tend to be discussed on forums because discussions tend to revolve around disagreement and there tends to be little disagreement that targeting civilians and hospitals is wrong.
Just because people aren't talking about it, it doesn't mean they are not aware or don't care. I care about deforestation and melting ice caps. I care about a lot of things I don't necessarily raise on social media on a daily basis. If people who care can't stop the UK government from taking money away from terminally ill cancer patients I'm at a loss as to how they are supposed to prevent a foreign dictator from killing his own people.
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Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
Within a few years of the Syrian conflict starting, the opposition was (Kurds aside, and we have never exactly been their reliable friends have we) dominated by Islamists (no I don't just mean ISIS, though they were indeed a significant part of it) Going in hard against Assad undoubtedly meant helping them.
Even during Cameron's generally dismal PMship, there were few things more pathetic and mendacious than his bigging up (at times literally) non-existent "moderate rebels"
And that Hillary Benn speech - what embarrassing, transparent tosh.
Even during Cameron's generally dismal PMship, there were few things more pathetic and mendacious than his bigging up (at times literally) non-existent "moderate rebels"
And that Hillary Benn speech - what embarrassing, transparent tosh.
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Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
Hillary Benn speech? Do you mean when he supported lending our support to France against Isis in Syria? If so, I'm not sure it's fair to Benn to chuck that in there alongside Cameron's reckless plan to attack Assad before the UN had even confirmed the use of chemical weapons. They were two very different situations. Just because Cameron tried to conflate them to salvage his own ego, I don't think it helpful for others to do so, even if they disagree with Benn's stance on the latter.AnatolyKasparov wrote:Within a few years of the Syrian conflict starting, the opposition was (Kurds aside, and we have never exactly been their reliable friends have we) dominated by Islamists (no I don't just mean ISIS, though they were indeed a significant part of it) Going in hard against Assad undoubtedly meant helping them.
Even during Cameron's generally dismal PMship, there were few things more pathetic and mendacious than his bigging up (at times literally) non-existent "moderate rebels"
And that Hillary Benn speech - what embarrassing, transparent tosh.
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Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
Willow904 wrote:For SpinngHugo, who was worried people aren't interested.Jeremy Corbyn
@jeremycorbyn
·
4h
The suffering of Syrians must end. I fully support the UN’s demand for an immediate ceasefire. And I urge all countries to support these efforts. There can be no long-lasting peace in Syria and the region without an inclusive agreement, negotiated through the UN.
Of course people are interested, but as with the Rohingya crisis, if the regime responsible is uncooperative what exactly can be done but to try to keep lines of communication open and try to keep pressure on them to desist?
These things don't tend to be discussed on forums because discussions tend to revolve around disagreement and there tends to be little disagreement that targeting civilians and hospitals is wrong.
Just because people aren't talking about it, it doesn't mean they are not aware or don't care. I care about deforestation and melting ice caps. I care about a lot of things I don't necessarily raise on social media on a daily basis. If people who care can't stop the UK government from taking money away from terminally ill cancer patients I'm at a loss as to how they are supposed to prevent a foreign dictator from killing his own people.
That is the same old stuff from Corbyn.
His "solution" is always the same: peace and a political settlement.
That is willing the nice ends we all agree with, whilst proposing no means. It is a denial of responsibility, a negation of leadership.
Maybe inaction is the right choice between two hard options. Just don't give me bullshit like that, which Corbyn does over and over again. Assad and Russia will not be taking the ceasefire peaceful route.
Without the threat of force in 2013, Assad would be using chemical weapons even more extensively than he has done.
Deforestation and climate change are longstanding problems. Assad butchering thousands more Syrians is news (ie new).
Freedland is right.
Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
Andrew Neil ripped Baker a new one, over the Corbyn smears.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
So you contend the solution will be military then - perhaps you could propose how we would have achieved that in Syria - massive ground operation?
That is the same old stuff from Corbyn.
His "solution" is always the same: peace and a political settlement.
That is willing the nice ends we all agree with, whilst proposing no means. It is a denial of responsibility, a negation of leadership.
Maybe inaction is the right choice between two hard options. Just don't give me bullshit like that, which Corbyn does over and over again. Assad and Russia will not be taking the ceasefire peaceful route.
Without the threat of force in 2013, Assad would be using chemical weapons even more extensively than he has done.
Deforestation and climate change are longstanding problems. Assad butchering thousands more Syrians is news (ie new).
Freedland is right.
Dictators have been butchering civilians for years and we have sometimes supported them, sometimes fought them and sometimes ignored them
The contention about the use of chemical weapons is just that a contention but as normaly you make it sound as though it is a 'truth' when it is anything but
The people who we should look at are the ones who supply the arms - I am afraid the UK and US have been at the forefront of this - should people who have been slaughtered by British and US allies be justified in attacking us as well'
I don't remember us being too impressed with Libya when they supplied the IRA with arms - surely they were in the right to do so - supporting their ally 'freedom fighters'
You try to treat all this in isolation as though the Syrian situation has no links to geopolitics and we in the West are players in that game and so should take responsibility..........
Freedland's piece was weak
Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
Freedland wrote this:SpinningHugo wrote:Willow904 wrote:For SpinngHugo, who was worried people aren't interested.Jeremy Corbyn
@jeremycorbyn
·
4h
The suffering of Syrians must end. I fully support the UN’s demand for an immediate ceasefire. And I urge all countries to support these efforts. There can be no long-lasting peace in Syria and the region without an inclusive agreement, negotiated through the UN.
Of course people are interested, but as with the Rohingya crisis, if the regime responsible is uncooperative what exactly can be done but to try to keep lines of communication open and try to keep pressure on them to desist?
These things don't tend to be discussed on forums because discussions tend to revolve around disagreement and there tends to be little disagreement that targeting civilians and hospitals is wrong.
Just because people aren't talking about it, it doesn't mean they are not aware or don't care. I care about deforestation and melting ice caps. I care about a lot of things I don't necessarily raise on social media on a daily basis. If people who care can't stop the UK government from taking money away from terminally ill cancer patients I'm at a loss as to how they are supposed to prevent a foreign dictator from killing his own people.
That is the same old stuff from Corbyn.
His "solution" is always the same: peace and a political settlement.
That is willing the nice ends we all agree with, whilst proposing no means. It is a denial of responsibility, a negation of leadership.
Maybe inaction is the right choice between two hard options. Just don't give me bullshit like that, which Corbyn does over and over again. Assad and Russia will not be taking the ceasefire peaceful route.
Without the threat of force in 2013, Assad would be using chemical weapons even more extensively than he has done.
Deforestation and climate change are longstanding problems. Assad butchering thousands more Syrians is news (ie new).
Freedland is right.
I merely pointed out that Corbyn has, indeed, said so.If we want the killing to stop, we need to say so.
To be even-handed, I believe Theresa May has said so, too. As has the UN. Freedland is wrong, people do care, they are aware the war is ongoing and are appalled at its escalation.
The reluctance to intervene militarily is based on there being no clear military solution. Removing Assad would simply create a power vacuum for Isis to fill as happened in Libya.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
Who benefits from this war? Who's arming the combatants? How is it funded?
Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
I'll look out the oil gas and sectarian map some time
Re: Wednesday 21st February 2018
Being still engaged in my fifty-year clearout that may be some time ....
pto perhaps ?
pto perhaps ?