FlyTheNest

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 9:30 am**

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:According to Wikipedia
Benjamin David Bradley (born 11 December 1989) is a British Conservative Party politician, self admitted liar; and eugenics enthusiast. He has been the Member of Parliament (MP) for Mansfield since the 2017 general election.

He has the intelligence of a small chid if he thinks what he posted was not going to cause a problem.......the papers are far more skilled in not making direct accusations that they cannot prove

Corbyn did meet a Czech spy - all the rest they wrote was based on innuendo and interpretation. Very unlikely to win a libel action against them on that basis

Bradley made a completely stupid and libellous comment

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 9:33 am**

I find it really odd that people who aren't members of Labour whether they be Green or Tory spend so much time obsessing about them and very little actually saying anything about their own chosen party..

Explain it to me someone.

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 9:36 am**

Guys can we move the "ignoring" conversation off these pages please? Your admin team will discuss.

Thanks

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 9:37 am**

RogerOThornhill wrote:I find it really odd that people who aren't members of Labour whether they be Green or Tory spend so much time obsessing about them and very little actually saying anything about their own chosen party..

Explain it to me someone.

I know, I'd really welcome some discussion of Green Party policies here.

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 9:42 am**

Hilary Benn
@hilarybennmp
10m10 minutes ago
More
Very clear statement by @Keir_Starmer on Labour's support for staying in a customs union with the EU. The right decision for the economy and for jobs and one which will be widely welcomed by LP members. @MarrShow

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 9:46 am**

RogerOThornhill wrote:I find it really odd that people who aren't members of Labour whether they be Green or Tory spend so much time obsessing about them and very little actually saying anything about their own chosen party..

Explain it to me someone.

I think Labour will be the next government, don't you? It won't be the Greens (sadly).

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 9:47 am**

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Hilary Benn
@hilarybennmp
10m10 minutes ago
More
Very clear statement by @Keir_Starmer on Labour's support for staying in a customs union with the EU. The right decision for the economy and for jobs and one which will be widely welcomed by LP members. @MarrShow

Surely he means leaving the customs union and entering into a materially identical one immediately?

Sloppy.

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 9:49 am**

SpinningHugo wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:I find it really odd that people who aren't members of Labour whether they be Green or Tory spend so much time obsessing about them and very little actually saying anything about their own chosen party..

Explain it to me someone.
I think Labour will be the next government, don't you? It won't be the Greens (sadly).

so you support the implementation of this manifesto then?

https://www.greenparty.org.uk/assets/fi ... teepdf.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Interesting as you do not seem to support any of the content from previous comments on here

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 9:53 am**

SpinningHugo wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Hilary Benn
@hilarybennmp
10m10 minutes ago
More
Very clear statement by @Keir_Starmer on Labour's support for staying in a customs union with the EU. The right decision for the economy and for jobs and one which will be widely welcomed by LP members. @MarrShow
Surely he means leaving the customs union and entering into a materially identical one immediately?

Sloppy.

Sloppy????

Are you really as stupid as you appear? You do understand that 'a custom's union' also includes 'the custom's union' don't you?

I will ask you again for the umpteenth time

What is the mechanism for us joining the EU Custom's Union from outside the EU remembering that no other country has this arrangement? Anybody who say we should stay in the EU Custom's Union has to be able to answer this question and not look as though they don't really know

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 9:56 am**

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:I find it really odd that people who aren't members of Labour whether they be Green or Tory spend so much time obsessing about them and very little actually saying anything about their own chosen party..

Explain it to me someone.
I know, I'd really welcome some discussion of Green Party policies here.

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 9:58 am**

I posted Benn's Tweet because he lost no time in sending it.

It implies he's 100% aware of and comfortable with the leadership's Brexit position, which is a good thing.

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 9:59 am**

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:I find it really odd that people who aren't members of Labour whether they be Green or Tory spend so much time obsessing about them and very little actually saying anything about their own chosen party..

Explain it to me someone.
I know, I'd really welcome some discussion of Green Party policies here.

Here are some

A referendum on the final deal for Brexit

Protect freedom of movement

Press to remain in single market

As this is easily the biggest issue, and the Greens are on the right side, I support them.

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 10:05 am**

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I posted Benn's Tweet because he lost no time in sending it.

It implies he's 100% aware of and comfortable with the leadership's Brexit position, which is a good thing.

Oh, I am completely certain that that further claim is false. Ask him about the single market or a second referendum.

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 10:27 am**

howsillyofme1 wrote:
I have tried it enough times and he is still here isn't he?

Anyway, I am not doing it....his shit should be challenged

I will say it again:

if he is just hear to disrupt and troll he should be banned (like rusty etc)
If he is considered to be a member of the board then I will respond and challenge him

What is wrong with that? If he posts the same nonsense each day then I will challenge him on it each day. It is not my problem if he refuses to have a proper discussion

I disagree with Willow and Tubby on a number of occasions but it doesn't mean we can't have really good debate (occasionally tetchy) which adds value in my view

I think he is a troll but I am in the minority - that is democracy for you!

Also, I am not going to change my approach and I apologise if it annoys you

No need to worry about it any more.

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 10:34 am**

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

'It's crunch time': Theresa May risks being toppled over Brexit as Labour signals it'll join Tory rebels to back a customs union
In a major shift, Sir Keir Starmer confirmed Labour will back an EU customs union - opposing a key Tory policy and risking a Commons defeat

Given Keir Starmer originally made the Customs Union a red line, it's odd to see support for a Customs Union described as a "major shift". Labour have taken a year and a half just to get back to where they (or at least Starmer) started. I don't think they'll avoid the "Brexit betrayal" assault in the press any more for putting taking this position off, either. Anyway, that Labour are going to join Tory rebels against the government on this is very welcome. No knowing if Tory rebels will go through with it, but if Labour are going to oppose 'Tory hard Brexit' as promised they need to start getting on with it and hope like hell a few Tories have some backbone left.

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 10:39 am**

Willow904 wrote:https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... ssion=true
'It's crunch time': Theresa May risks being toppled over Brexit as Labour signals it'll join Tory rebels to back a customs union
In a major shift, Sir Keir Starmer confirmed Labour will back an EU customs union - opposing a key Tory policy and risking a Commons defeat
Given Keir Starmer originally made the Customs Union a red line, it's odd to see support for a Customs Union described as a "major shift". Labour have taken a year and a half just to get back to where they (or at least Starmer) started. I don't think they'll avoid the "Brexit betrayal" assault in the press any more for putting taking this position off, either. Anyway, that Labour are going to join Tory rebels against the government on this is very welcome. No knowing if Tory rebels will go through with it, but if Labour are going to oppose 'Tory hard Brexit' as promised they need to start getting on with it and hope like hell a few Tories have some backbone left.

It's because the narrative is that Corbyn's a hard-core Brexiter and is dragging the party that way. He has had to be pulled, kicking and screaming (metaphorically) towards a remain position.

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 10:42 am**

Willow904 wrote:https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... ssion=true
'It's crunch time': Theresa May risks being toppled over Brexit as Labour signals it'll join Tory rebels to back a customs union
In a major shift, Sir Keir Starmer confirmed Labour will back an EU customs union - opposing a key Tory policy and risking a Commons defeat
Given Keir Starmer originally made the Customs Union a red line, it's odd to see support for a Customs Union described as a "major shift". Labour have taken a year and a half just to get back to where they (or at least Starmer) started. I don't think they'll avoid the "Brexit betrayal" assault in the press any more for putting taking this position off, either. Anyway, that Labour are going to join Tory rebels against the government on this is very welcome. No knowing if Tory rebels will go through with it, but if Labour are going to oppose 'Tory hard Brexit' as promised they need to start getting on with it and hope like hell a few Tories have some backbone left.

Welcome indeed.

It's been frustrating hasn't it? But the timing is right.

The Tories, unbelievably, are now the party of pure Brexit, which cannot exist. I'm struck that of those screeching at Starmer on Twitter right now, none have a proposal for what their Brexit would actually look like. They just shout betrayal whenever anyone mentions an accord or a treaty.

May has left Labour a vast ocean of pragmatically sensible electoral territory here. Not to say it's danger free for Labour, but I'm optimistic.

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 10:43 am**

Willow904 wrote:.
Given Keir Starmer originally made the Customs Union a red line, it's odd to see support for a Customs Union described as a "major shift"...

Nobody was listening, and/or they didn't know why it was important. The Irish border issue has been there all along but only seemed to come to public notice at the end of last year.

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 10:44 am**

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/tran ... technology" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Transformational investment in off-road self-driving technology
Automotive Minister Richard Harrington announces Industrial Strategy funding for off-road self-driving vehicles which could revolutionise the mining and construction sectors.

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 10:45 am**

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/defe ... w-helpline" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Defence Secretary shows commitment to Armed Forces mental health with over £220-million funding and new helpline

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 10:54 am**

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... imit-china" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Xi Jinping to cement his power with plan to scrap two-term limit

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 10:57 am**

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... il-housing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The right-to-buy scheme slowed construction of new homes but local authorities are exploring new funding options

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 11:02 am**

In fairness that should include regular stating of" blocking"targeted posters on an evidential hypocritical basis.

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 11:08 am**

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... imit-china

Xi Jinping to cement his power with plan to scrap two-term limit

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 11:12 am**

I don't know how that smiley(?) passed the censors.

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 11:14 am**

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 11:16 am**

Sunday is always the worst day for being a letterbox on the Isle of Wight.

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 11:41 am**

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... nday-essay" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On the other hand...
Tim Adams

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 11:43 am**

You can equally plough the opt out "purity',line of course.

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 11:55 am**

refitman wrote:
Willow904 wrote:https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... ssion=true
'It's crunch time': Theresa May risks being toppled over Brexit as Labour signals it'll join Tory rebels to back a customs union
In a major shift, Sir Keir Starmer confirmed Labour will back an EU customs union - opposing a key Tory policy and risking a Commons defeat
Given Keir Starmer originally made the Customs Union a red line, it's odd to see support for a Customs Union described as a "major shift". Labour have taken a year and a half just to get back to where they (or at least Starmer) started. I don't think they'll avoid the "Brexit betrayal" assault in the press any more for putting taking this position off, either. Anyway, that Labour are going to join Tory rebels against the government on this is very welcome. No knowing if Tory rebels will go through with it, but if Labour are going to oppose 'Tory hard Brexit' as promised they need to start getting on with it and hope like hell a few Tories have some backbone left.
It's because the narrative is that Corbyn's a hard-core Brexiter and is dragging the party that way. He has had to be pulled, kicking and screaming (metaphorically) towards a remain position.

It's easy to see why this narrative came about. Starmer was made to row back from support for a Customs Union to "not ruling it out". I know others think Corbyn is playing a clever strategic game. Personally I think he is simply at odds with the majority of his party and is having to democratically represent their views as leader, whilst continuing to disagree personally. I'm persuaded by AK's assertion that the EU isn't an important issue for him, however. Certainly he doesn't seem to understand the issues especially well, which does suggest it's a topic that doesn't really interest him, which is why his appointment of Starmer has been so crucial. At the end of the day the Brexit vote has been a real pain in the butt for Corbyn. He would have been excellent in a pre-referendum world of fighting the Tories on austerity and making the case against the bollocks that is 'trickle down economics' but on the EU he has often seemed a little out of his depth and I've found that frustrating, but I've never doubted he voted remain and would do again because it's so clear he would rather be getting on with fixing domestic problems than wasting time over our relationship with Europe. Problem is, he is one of the ones who has previously argued we should make this disruptive break from the EU and that's difficult for me to get past sometimes. Though, to be fair, I don't suppose anyone who wanted a referendum could have anticipated just how badly Cameron would draft one and just how daft Theresa May would be to rush into triggering article 50 without first producing a detailed white paper and honing a Brexit plan. The Tories have got us into one hell of a hole and it's difficult to see a way out.

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 11:58 am**

Thought Midge had had it but was playing dead.

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 12:00 pm**

Hi ohso

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 12:01 pm**

Morning all

Just been to a record fair and picked up some mediocre 80s trash but for CHF3 an album who can argue!

Don't ask what by the way as I do not want to be embarrassed

Starmer made the right call this morning, and don't get me wrong I do understand the frustration of people like Willow

It is essentially a question of opinion and tactics

We also have to be aware of the world outside as well......this is a forum of remainers and the arguments here are not necessarily the ones that work with the 'soft leavers' we have to convince to change their minds

The EEA/CU argument is all around economics but the sovereignty question was the one that also resonated, and is the way the Brexiteers will go i am fairly sure

If you want to see what we are up against go to UKPR where there is a real debate between Leave/Remain...it is a most bizarre vision of the world I must admit

We are going to hear the phrase 'vassal state' a lot I think and we have to have a good argument agains it

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 12:03 pm**

Feeding fish when you are a letterbox hundreds of miles away not the easiest task.

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 12:06 pm**

Nearly looked up CHF3 as a name of an eighties album/group I do wish you would write more clearly.

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 12:09 pm**

[youtube]8XhQRFO4M7A[/youtube]

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 12:11 pm**

HindleA wrote:Nearly looked up CHF3 as a name of an eighties album/group I do wish you would write more clearly.

Hahaha

trifluoromethane

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 12:21 pm**

howsillyofme1 wrote:
HindleA wrote:Nearly looked up CHF3 as a name of an eighties album/group I do wish you would write more clearly.
Hahaha

trifluoromethane

Smart-arse

(I almost did the same as Hindle)

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 12:30 pm**

: DW4Ol0NXUAAj-pg.jpg (107.62 KiB) Viewed 9952 times

https://www.chad.co.uk/news/indian-call ... -1-7779633" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 12:31 pm**

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:---
May has left Labour a vast ocean of pragmatically sensible electoral territory here. Not to say it's danger free for Labour, but I'm optimistic.

(cJA edit bold)

You and I both, Brother

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 12:35 pm**

@JohnCleese
Feb 24

Interesting situation brewing

The Murdochs have paid hush-money to 24 people who sued the Sun for criminal practices, like hacking and blagging. But they made no admission of liability

The judge has now told them they must come clean about what they deny and what they admit...

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 12:39 pm**

gilsey wrote:
Willow904 wrote:.
Given Keir Starmer originally made the Customs Union a red line, it's odd to see support for a Customs Union described as a "major shift"...
Nobody was listening, and/or they didn't know why it was important. The Irish border issue has been there all along but only seemed to come to public notice at the end of last year.

Exactly, the reality is that Labour have been moving to this position for some time now - but until recently few took any notice.

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 12:54 pm**

Labour have certainly spun more towards staying in the Customs Union. But still talk of trade deals. So cake and eat it in policy terms. But spin shifting is how policy shifts in time, so I'm encouraged.

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 12:58 pm**

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Labour have certainly spun more towards staying in the Customs Union. But still talk of trade deals. So cake and eat it in policy terms. But spin shifting is how policy shifts in time, so I'm encouraged.

Hi Tubby

Yes, definitely some inconsistencies but that will become less and less possible as things get more concrete

I think the trade deals are no out of the window as far as Labour are concerned

There is still the tricky question of whether we join the EEA or not and that is going to be a question they will continue to avoid

Personally, I think Labour MPs should lay off the EEA stuff fo a bit - in public at least

The Tories are going to find it very hard to commit to the same thing so there are the risks of lost votes and splits in the cabinet. I am sure May, Hammond and Rudd would love to say what Starmer has said today....they cannot though with the Brexit ministers and also the ERG (we may be talking of up to 100 MPs all told, a not insignificant number)

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 1:46 pm**

This is fun...

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Alex Nunns‏
@alexnunns
Follow Follow @alexnunns
More
Here's what @KateEMcCann of the Telegraph said on #bbcsp. She actually said this, I'm not making it up:
"Ben Bradley's apology has been retweeted & is now an attack line & it's quite vicious & vindictive. People need to be kinder to each other."

Check the replies for McCann's "yeah but no but" justification

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 2:16 pm**

The Conservative Party is hiring an army of paid tweeters to take on Jeremy Corbyn’s supporters on social media, the Telegraph can disclose.

The attempt to “professionalise” the Tories’ campaign operation comes amid fears among senior Tories that the party faces disastrous results in May’s local authority elections.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/201 ... ht-labour/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 2:21 pm**

howsillyofme1 wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Labour have certainly spun more towards staying in the Customs Union. But still talk of trade deals. So cake and eat it in policy terms. But spin shifting is how policy shifts in time, so I'm encouraged.
Hi Tubby

Yes, definitely some inconsistencies but that will become less and less possible as things get more concrete

I think the trade deals are no out of the window as far as Labour are concerned

There is still the tricky question of whether we join the EEA or not and that is going to be a question they will continue to avoid

Personally, I think Labour MPs should lay off the EEA stuff fo a bit - in public at least

The Tories are going to find it very hard to commit to the same thing so there are the risks of lost votes and splits in the cabinet. I am sure May, Hammond and Rudd would love to say what Starmer has said today....they cannot though with the Brexit ministers and also the ERG (we may be talking of up to 100 MPs all told, a not insignificant number)

Hi!

I agree with you that the EEA will be a difficult sell. As you know, I think Labour needs to be further on with making that case. But I think this is better, with what looks to me like a change of emphasis on the Customs Union. As you say, Hammond and Rudd would like to say what Starmer did. There's a strong opposition among leavers (particularly of the Labour variety, I think) to trade deals. Some of that is just nostalgic, but some of it is well-founded suspicion of what Fox and all want to do. I don't think Labour ought to have too much problem witha that.

I wouldn't rule out May doing a shift, and saying "Putting Corbyn in then, are you?" But that's her business. Labour is the Opposition, and this change of emphasis is closer to what I think opposing needs to be.

I'd give it 7 out of 10, to quote Corbyn. Which means, it's much better than not.

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 2:24 pm**

I think Jeremy Corbyn has (so far) been canny on the brinkmanship. I can see that timing is all. In the event of an election, he can't be seen to have moved ahead of public opinion. It's a tough position to be in. Another Conservative win doesn't bear thinking about and, however things pan out, ultimately I'd feel much safer under a Labour government.

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 2:32 pm**

The "liberal case for leave" in action here.

Greg Hands
✔
@GregHands
Very warm meeting with Hungarian Deputy Foreign Minister Levente Magyar. On the same page on Brexit, and maintaining a very deep trade relationship. We both believe UK-Hungary relationship can go from strength to strength! #FreeTradeUK

2:54 PM - Feb 23, 2018

Even Hungary knows we're mad.

Posted: **Sun 25 Feb, 2018 2:37 pm**

The thing is with Corbyn is he is older than he was 30 years ago when his reputation as a bit of a loose cannon were made. Most people have seen little of him before he jumped into the leadership

It seems, to me at least, that he is less interested in destroying institutions such as the EU and NATO and rather trying to get them work to what he sees are his priorities. I don't think anyone would suggest that he would be against people having jobs, or wants a hard border in Ireland or is against immigration

That would go against his principles and he seems to guard them jealously

He seems to be still suspicious of the supranational organisation such as EU and its pro-austerity and corporate approach and that is something that he has not let go of yet - even with him this sovereignty question seems to be important and I cannot see him going for EEA/CU at the end unless there is a say for the the UK somehow - maybe at that point he will argue for remain

I don't necessarily think that it is brinkmanship - I think what the Tories are doing is much closer to that description - Labour's speed is dictated by the electorate and that is heavily influenced by the Government

I must admit that the Starmer performance this morning was the most effective from a politician on Brexit for a long time

FlyTheNest

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