Friday 2nd March 2018

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PorFavor
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by PorFavor »

Sky's correspondent saying that Theresa May's speech was "detailed and clear".
gilsey
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by gilsey »

PorFavor wrote:Sky's correspondent saying that Theresa May's speech was "detailed and clear".
And all about a cherry-picking scenario that the EU has already ruled out.
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HindleA
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by HindleA »

Well done for taking your own suggestion,though the gin reduction to a gallon a day,my have helped.


Usual hysterical needless panic buying causes shortages for others.
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Willow904
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by Willow904 »

It was certainly a bit more detailed and I suppose it was clear. She wants a pick and mix of full access for bits we want, association for the bits that are expensive and difficult to do ourselves and divergence where it suits us. Oh and no ECJ.

Exactly what the EU is adamant we will not be able to have.

She wants the moon, in other words, and even that is going to be a compromise for the hard Brexit core apparently.

She was also very clear that we are leaving the EU because people voted for it and not because it's a good idea or will have any benefits or anything.
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PaulfromYorkshire
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by PaulfromYorkshire »

Inspired by "good morfternoon" we could perhaps call it a "customs partunionship".
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Willow904
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by Willow904 »

Q: [From ITV’s Robert Peston.] People voted to take back control. But today you are promising not to exercise the control you are taking back. So what was the point of Brexit?

May says people voted to take back control of money, borders and laws. That will happen. In some areas it will make sense to operate on the same basis as now. But the decision will be for parliament.

There will be commitments. But that happens in any trade deal, she says.
We're taking back the control we ceded to get an excellent trade deal as an EU member so we can give it away again in pursuit of a less excellent trade deal.
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HindleA
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by HindleA »

Never understood the school closing thing,we had weather like this every year,never shut.The people that couldn't make it had their parents home,the ones that did were overseen by the staff that could.Maybe a function of car use.
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Willow904
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by Willow904 »

On financial services, she says Philip Hammond, the chancellor, will say next week how financial services should be part of a deep and comprehensive partnership.

May says the UK is not looking for passporting.
Is this the first time this has been acknowledged? With the red lines May has previously drawn passporting for financial services was unlikely to be possible but I'm not aware this has been specifically stated before.
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PorFavor
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by PorFavor »

Guy Verhofstadt claims that Theresa May's speech was "a few more cherries on the "Brexit" cake".
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by RogerOThornhill »

HindleA wrote:Never understood the school closing thing,we had weather like this every year,never shut.The people that couldn't make it had their parents home,the ones that did were overseen by the staff that could.Maybe a function of car use.
Think that's probably true - I know some of our teachers live a fair distance away.

Ours was closed today and I guess partly due to staff not being able to get in.
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citizenJA
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by citizenJA »

PorFavor wrote:As one door closes another one opens. Apparently.
She's said that again?
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citizenJA
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by citizenJA »

No doors opened then or now
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citizenJA
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by citizenJA »

PorFavor wrote:Sky's correspondent saying that Theresa May's speech was "detailed and clear".
Able to hear the words May said. Words strung together detailed something. Heard every single word in that transmission. Yep.
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Willow904
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by Willow904 »

HindleA wrote:Never understood the school closing thing,we had weather like this every year,never shut.The people that couldn't make it had their parents home,the ones that did were overseen by the staff that could.Maybe a function of car use.
School closures in the 80s mean many children having to travel further than they used to and then there is "choice" meaning fewer pupils simply attending their closest school. So car use increases.

But then again it could be about attendence stats. Children not managing to attend an open school from outlying cut off villages brings attendance down, but a closed school doesn't? Not sure.

Anyway, we haven't experienced conditions quite as bad as this since the early eighties, it really is quite exceptional. The blizzard conditions were so widespread there simply weren't enough ploughs and gritters to keep roads passable and the cold temperatures mean it's hanging around. I'm not sure kids learn much when half the school hasn't shown up and there's snow on the ground anyway :)
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55DegreesNorth
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by 55DegreesNorth »

Willow904 wrote: Anyway, we haven't experienced conditions quite as bad as this since the early eighties, it really is quite exceptional. The blizzard conditions were so widespread there simply weren't enough ploughs and gritters to keep roads passable and the cold temperatures mean it's hanging around. I'm not sure kids learn much when half the school hasn't shown up and there's snow on the ground anyway :)
Round your way, perhaps. The winter of 2010 saw snow lying from the end of November till February, and it got down to -10 in my garden (in town).
The wind and drifting is more of an issue this time. The roads and railways are blocked north, south and west, so Newcastle is cut off from the rest of the uk. The upside was that the inlaws couldn’t get their usual Mail and Times, and had to settle for the Journal.
howsillyofme1
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by howsillyofme1 »

Afternoon

On schools there is often he question of liability and also there are examples of where teachers have been called in but pupils not

I remember schools being closed for snow days in the past in similar conditions

There is also the question of liability - it is often not the school but clearing the environs and if there is an accident due to inadequate clearing of snow and ice then there will be an issue I think - this was definitely not the case 30 years ago

So May has not said very much new but the commentators are treating it as something radically different - one thing I think she has managed to do is to keep everyone on side which is pretty skilful and it looks like, as normal, the Tory 'rebels' on whom so much hope is put will now line up behind the Government in a CU vote

No-one is mentioning the transition period - did I miss this?

There was talk about a future state but I am not quite clear on the WA and the main points in that are NI (no improvement on her previous comments), EU citizens (still not seen as acceptable to the EU and nothing further on that) and the money (suppose this has been agreed in principle but you have the threats of DD)

The can has been kicked down the road again.

So she has won a battle today but the reality is 'nothing has changed' - how can the Tory remainers and the rabid Brexiteers both welcome sthe same thing? because it is full of empty, meaningless bollocks that is how!
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citizenJA
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by citizenJA »

Hey, nothing fell off!
Success
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Willow904
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by Willow904 »

55DegreesNorth wrote:
Willow904 wrote: Anyway, we haven't experienced conditions quite as bad as this since the early eighties, it really is quite exceptional. The blizzard conditions were so widespread there simply weren't enough ploughs and gritters to keep roads passable and the cold temperatures mean it's hanging around. I'm not sure kids learn much when half the school hasn't shown up and there's snow on the ground anyway :)
Round your way, perhaps. The winter of 2010 saw snow lying from the end of November till February, and it got down to -10 in my garden (in town).
The wind and drifting is more of an issue this time. The roads and railways are blocked north, south and west, so Newcastle is cut off from the rest of the uk. The upside was that the inlaws couldn’t get their usual Mail and Times, and had to settle for the Journal.
We did have quite a bit of snow here in 2010 as well, but it was more normal, accumulating on the higher ground but with main roads well gritted and kept clear. Yesterday the blizzard conditions meant roads were covered in snow and ice even at quite low accumulations and it caught a lot of commuters out as roads that are normally fine with those depths of snow had become very tricky and it really was chaos with huge queues backing up as cars and lorries struggled to get up the steeper hills. It just wasn't the kind of snow people here are used to, especially in the cities. Bristol and Bath just don't do snow, normally, though we certainly do where I am on the Mendips.
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citizenJA
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by citizenJA »

Despite her efforts to quell fears of a hard Irish border, [Theresa May] accidentally began a sentence: "To achieve a hard border-."
She then corrected herself: "To avoid a hard border…"

http://www.newstalk.com/British-Prime-M ... ver-Brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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citizenJA
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by citizenJA »

"After all, this was always intended as a speech with something for everyone."
- John Crace
frog222
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by frog222 »

citizenJA wrote:"After all, this was always intended as a speech with something for everyone."
- John Crace
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... john-crace" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Maybe posted already , but I didn't see it !
AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

citizenJA wrote:Hey, nothing fell off!
Success
That *is* a success, currently.
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by HindleA »

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 35471.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Life expectancy of poorest girls in England falls for first time on record since 1920s, figures show



Given the purposefully targeted nature of policy,despite the guff,monies and support back to pre mass decarceration levels when we need it more,not relatively less,applied to the sick/disabled however temporarilly. Certainly the quality of life affected perniciously with more State penalisation/neglect of basic reciprocity to come and mooted for charging more for less.
,often to a shorter life as it is.Presenting as burdensome is fascistic,you can argue how "intentional" this is,pretty obvious to me.
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Tom Bell

Verified account

@tombellforever
4h4 hours ago
More
What a speech by the PM! Everyone has run into the street to celebrate. A carnival atmosphere; people quoting their favourite bits, children taking turns at being different cabinet ministers. Just saw a Millennial share some avocado with an elderly racist.
Britain is great again!
:lol:
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AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Truly searing sarcasm :)
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by HindleA »

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... f-the-year" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by HindleA »

http://www.advicescotland.com/the-home- ... -interest/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you worked hard, paid your taxes and national insurance contributions, then the welfare state would protect you if misfortune fell upon you.

But it was all a fraud.
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by HindleA »

UBI musings aid that breaking of threadbare link IMHO.
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by HindleA »

Ie reciprocity works both ways,removing own part of "deal" so much easier for Governments to remove what's left of theirs.
PorFavor
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by PorFavor »

I've listened to Theresa May's speech again and again, and I really can't understand why it seems to have gone down well. She might just as well have cut to the chase and said, "Straight up, guv! Nothing has changed."
PaulfromYorkshire
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by PaulfromYorkshire »

PorFavor wrote:I've listened to Theresa May's speech again and again, and I really can't understand why it seems to have gone down well. She might just as well have cut to the chase and said, "Straight up, guv! Nothing has changed."
I think JA got it.

When you set the bar so low, nothing fell off is a major success!
PaulfromYorkshire
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by PaulfromYorkshire »

Ouch
“Our relationship must be close and comprehensive, but this is only possible if the UK Government understands that the EU is a rules based organisation, as there is little appetite to renegotiate the rules of the single market to satisfy a compromise crafted to placate a divided Conservative party. “
Guy Verhofstadt
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by HindleA »

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... s-too-high" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Profit-hungry firms are gambling on social care. Are the stakes too high?
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by HindleA »

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ch-cartoon" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Martin Rowson on Theresa May's third Brexit speech
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by HindleA »

https://kittysjones.wordpress.com/2018/ ... cruel-cut/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Disability Income Guarantee abolished under Universal Credit rules – a sly and cruel cut
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

PorFavor wrote:I've listened to Theresa May's speech again and again, and I really can't understand why it seems to have gone down well. She might just as well have cut to the chase and said, "Straight up, guv! Nothing has changed."
Amongst whom, journalists?

She could have said, indeed done, literally anything and most of them would have praised it.
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howsillyofme1
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by howsillyofme1 »

I saw Dominic Grieve interviewed earlier in the week (when Hoey was the Labour representative nat.....so mainstream) and he said that the biggest error being made was that people treated the EU as a state when in fact it is a treaty-based organisation and so it can only apply rules and it cannot amend them or introduce new ones with agreement of all the members (perhaps some can be done under QMV but that is quite restricted examples)

The UK Government can actually sign treaties without recourse to Parliament (I think it is right - under the prerogative) and so is much simpler

There are 3 things that need to be done

WA - this has already been agreed in principle (apparently) and just needs to be legally codified. There is little negotiation to be had on this as the principles are set. In most cases it is the EU waiting for us to fill our bits in - they have done theirs.

Transition - totally within the gift of the EU

Future trade treaty- totally within the gift of the EU (we could join EEA which would simplify things a bit)

The Government have not been honest when they keep talking about it simply being a negotiation - it is much less equal than that. If the EU doesn't like what we say they can just say no....and the consequences of that are significant. Humiliation as we run back and agree or economic damage

I think we also can underestimate the tone and how the EU can help the Government the capitulation that will inevitably come - this is where Labour have a huge edge with Starmer being far more credible. The commitment to the transition under current rules also buys us a time that the Tories have not yet got!
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by PorFavor »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
PorFavor wrote:I've listened to Theresa May's speech again and again, and I really can't understand why it seems to have gone down well. She might just as well have cut to the chase and said, "Straight up, guv! Nothing has changed."
Amongst whom, journalists?

She could have said, indeed done, literally anything and most of them would have praised it.

Well, (most) journalists, for sure. But the Conservative Party, "arch-brexiters" and the more "remain" disposed, alike. Which makes me suspicious of what sort of side-deal she's done with the former grouping - who aren't usually backwards in coming forwards.
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by HindleA »

https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/m ... er-people/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


"Mystery "over shock fall in disability benefits paid to older people


Attempted to abolish it under the business rate retention ruse,to be fair all shades of Government sporadically try such things,hence in abeyance on Labour's "holistic approach" and/or "getting" independent living right rather than State,at what ever level discretion.
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by HindleA »

Meanwhile in US under a fascistic President an attempt at legislation to a right to community living.
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citizenJA
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by citizenJA »

HindleA wrote:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 35471.html

Life expectancy of poorest girls in England falls for first time on record since 1920s, figures show

Given the purposefully targeted nature of policy,despite the guff,monies and support back to pre mass decarceration levels when we need it more,not relatively less,applied to the sick/disabled however temporarilly. Certainly the quality of life affected perniciously with more State penalisation/neglect of basic reciprocity to come and mooted for charging more for less.
,often to a shorter life as it is.Presenting as burdensome is fascistic,you can argue how "intentional" this is,pretty obvious to me.
Yes, I looked over the ONS report earlier this morning. Depressing as hell. Depressed because it's intentional harm being done. What makes UK leadership so ugly?
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citizenJA
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by citizenJA »

HindleA wrote:Meanwhile in US under a fascistic President an attempt at legislation to a right to community living.
Unprecedented lunatic
He's muzzled
PorFavor
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by PorFavor »

Night night.
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by HindleA »

Eg if you don't have to work/seek work regardless,Government's can continue to apply removals/change to loan regardless if fully fit two year contributor or terminally ill thirty year contributor
Last edited by HindleA on Fri 02 Mar, 2018 9:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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citizenJA
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by citizenJA »

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Ouch
“Our relationship must be close and comprehensive, but this is only possible if the UK Government understands that the EU is a rules based organisation, as there is little appetite to renegotiate the rules of the single market to satisfy a compromise crafted to placate a divided Conservative party. “
Guy Verhofstadt
I'd like that, it's a responsible, adult and safe thing to say, don't you think? Is it too much to ask for, nice, sane leadership? I don't think so.
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citizenJA
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by citizenJA »

PorFavor wrote:Night night.
Goodnight, PorFavor

Hot date?
:rock:
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Dunno about "hot" just at the minute tbh.
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citizenJA
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by citizenJA »

citizenJA wrote:
HindleA wrote:Meanwhile in US under a fascistic President an attempt at legislation to a right to community living.
Unprecedented lunatic
He's muzzled
I should qualify this. I feel less threatened by him. I concede I may be wrong.
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citizenJA
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by citizenJA »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Dunno about "hot" just at the minute tbh.
Dancing, all-night dancing
:dance:
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citizenJA
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Re: Friday 2nd March 2018

Post by citizenJA »

'millennial sharing avocado with an elderly racist'

lyrics to a Beck tune
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