Saturday 3rd & Sunday 4th March 2018

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 03 Mar, 2018 6:23 pm

[youtube]w5uVgWQCUPI[/youtube]

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 03 Mar, 2018 6:31 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:Disappointingly:
If there was another referendum on EU membership, Brexiteers are three points ahead of Remainers, almost the same as the 2016 result.

Then again, we don't do polls.

And this is ComRes, not widely known as ComedyResults for nothing.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 03 Mar, 2018 6:34 pm

I never liked the semicolon,probably in cahoots with the letter "w"

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 03 Mar, 2018 6:35 pm

w;w;w;w;w;w;w;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 03 Mar, 2018 6:36 pm

t't't't't't't

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 03 Mar, 2018 6:40 pm

PorFavor wrote:w;w;w;w;w;w;w;

badass

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 03 Mar, 2018 6:40 pm

HindleA wrote:t't't't't't't

hardcore

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 03 Mar, 2018 6:41 pm

Another Pulp reference.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 03 Mar, 2018 6:42 pm

Humperdink, Humperdink, Humperdink!

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 03 Mar, 2018 7:22 pm

Night night.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 03 Mar, 2018 7:23 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 37361.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Mrs May also revealed Britain would be willing to pay to remain part of a series of European agencies relating to medicines, chemicals and aviation after the UK’s exit from the EU

Right I get it. So we're leaving the EU because it costs us money that we want to spend on other things, such as paying the EU to stay in some its initiatives.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Sat 03 Mar, 2018 8:07 pm

PorFavor wrote:
tinybgoat wrote: Just squelched back from our local co-op, Duck eggs wouldn't have been my first choice...
Quails' eggs?

Edited to add - guess what?

And again - to move same. Not firing on all two cylinders, today.

I hope not, unless they give the quails epidurals.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Sat 03 Mar, 2018 9:13 pm

Linked to by S.Hugo on twitter
https://t.co/UzD0VJAFlh" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"That Irish Problem With Brexit Is A Tough One - Without A Real Solution Either"

The Northern Ireland and Eire border is indeed a Brexit problem. The likely best solution is to just declare it solved and turn a blind eye to low level violations of the rules

Scarily, this seems to be what Theresa May was suggesting.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 03 Mar, 2018 9:16 pm

PorFavor wrote:Night night.

Goodnight, PorFavor

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 03 Mar, 2018 9:31 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-43273127" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **adam** » Sat 03 Mar, 2018 9:53 pm

So, from the other day, schools and snow - I reckon that about half our staff - bit more rather than bit less - come from outside of town (properly outside, actually somewhere else, not just Ashmore Park or Billbrook) (I appreciate that only HSOM will get this but believe us, it makes sense) which for almost all of them means car journeys, and when the advice being given is 'don't make non-essential journeys' I can see how schools end up closed. On the other hand, relying on public transport, I have never failed to get to school on a bad weather day (I generally have to set off before they've decided) Also you can't reasonably expect children to behave sensibly or responsibly around snow so people always get hurt and people always get in trouble when we do open on snowy days. We moved into a new build a couple of years ago, and our new site would be perfectly safe on days like we've just had - just keep them in - but our old site, like a lot of schools - was across several buildings and you had to go across an old scratty yard several times a day that was always a bit of a deathtrap in the snow/ice.

Time loop to 36 hours back over.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 03 Mar, 2018 9:54 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43273843" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

John McDonnell: Spring Statement 'must help ailing councils'

A Treasury spokesman outlined the plans to the Financial Times for the statement which, unlike most recent Budgets and Autumn statements, is being delivered on a Tuesday rather than taking the high profile slot straight after Prime Minister's Questions on a Wednesday.

55DegreesNorth · Post by **55DegreesNorth** » Sat 03 Mar, 2018 9:56 pm

PorFavor wrote:[youtube]w5uVgWQCUPI[/youtube]

Evening folks,
I saw Ry Cooder do a double act with Nick Lowe at the Sage a few years ago. Best concert in years.

Post by **adam** » Sat 03 Mar, 2018 9:56 pm

The really dumb thing about May's speech was that despite Barnier very very clearly saying a few days before 'this different baskets nonsense is a complete non-starter' this is still our plan. I think by saying nothing new at all (because 'we may actually have more restricted access than now' is not new and doesn't become new just because someone saying it has denied it previously) (and not 'perviosly' which that almost came out as) (but then again..)... she has just done what she meant to, which is to keep the conservative party together for the time being and to delay the point when the EU throw their hands in the air and say 'this, this or this - decide'.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 03 Mar, 2018 9:58 pm

My secondary school only closed on special occasions,like being set fire to and a bomb threat.

Post by **adam** » Sat 03 Mar, 2018 10:08 pm

HindleA wrote:My secondary school only closed on special occasions,like being set fire to and a bomb threat.

We had an urgent message from the hospital next door to close all of our windows one time because their incinerator was venting something that it shouldn't have been.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 03 Mar, 2018 10:10 pm

Or since,a fire alarm fault after a lightning strike.

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp/new ... ng-strike/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 03 Mar, 2018 10:19 pm

'Knell that's the new bit (1974ish) after fire made into community centre/theatre/swimming pool looks exactly the same. Now building a new school apparently.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 03 Mar, 2018 10:25 pm

goodnight, everyone
love,
cJA

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 03 Mar, 2018 10:29 pm

Don't know why I thought it must have changed into a beach hut or something.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 03 Mar, 2018 10:33 pm

Heseltine:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... heresa-may" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Talking to the Observer, he said: “The speech just moves us further down the cherry-picking road. It set out the cherries that Britain wants to pick but that approach completely ignores the fact that the EU has said, ‘sorry there is no cherry picking’.”

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 03 Mar, 2018 10:49 pm

Certainly here,the grove after which my road is named has no cherry trees left,though Tarquin and I are endeavouring to remedy.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 03 Mar, 2018 10:50 pm

What is it with Blue Labour types?

Paul Embery
‏@PaulEmbery
Follow Follow @PaulEmbery
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There are no longer 'Leavers' and 'Remainers', and haven't been for 20 months. We should put an end to that terminology. There are only democrats and anti-democrats.

After 20 months of faffing around we're no closer to any solutions - and Leavers' language gets more extreme by the day.

Post by **adam** » Sat 03 Mar, 2018 10:56 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:What is it with Blue Labour types?

Paul Embery
‏@PaulEmbery
Follow Follow @PaulEmbery
More
There are no longer 'Leavers' and 'Remainers', and haven't been for 20 months. We should put an end to that terminology. There are only democrats and anti-democrats.
After 20 months of faffing around we're no closer to any solutions - and Leavers' language gets more extreme by the day.

Those who understand the referendum result is a thing, and those who think it's everything.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 03 Mar, 2018 11:01 pm

I'm a Remainer.
I can't help but see banning the term as blatantly anti-democratic.

I do keep coming back to the Poisonwood Bible though.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Sun 04 Mar, 2018 8:25 am

adam wrote:The really dumb thing about May's speech was that despite Barnier very very clearly saying a few days before 'this different baskets nonsense is a complete non-starter' this is still our plan. I think by saying nothing new at all (because 'we may actually have more restricted access than now' is not new and doesn't become new just because someone saying it has denied it previously) (and not 'perviosly' which that almost came out as) (but then again..)... she has just done what she meant to, which is to keep the conservative party together for the time being and to delay the point when the EU throw their hands in the air and say 'this, this or this - decide'.

http://www.rationaloptimist.com/blog/di ... ean-union/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Part of the compromise would be for Britain to start out in close alignment on existing products and services, but to be free to diverge not by repealing existing laws, but as new technologies and conundrums arise.

It helps make sense of the reason Gove, Mogg etc are happy after May's speech is because they have no intention of respecting any Brexit agreements long term. Ideally they'd start from a position where we'd be free to negotiate new trade deals, but any minor conveniences such as having to follow eu agreements could be reduced by 'divergence', probably not being things they were concerned with in the first place.
i.e. get a softish Brexit now, ditch bits of it as soon as possible & kick the can so far down the road it's post brexit
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-brit ... SKBN1E30CL" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Britons can change terms of Brexit to diverge from EU: pro-Brexit minister Gove"

But can't see eu being daft enough to agree to the idea.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 04 Mar, 2018 9:40 am

May is still talking about leaving the single market and customs union, so of course the Brexiters are happy, they're getting what they want. May is saying she would keep aligned with the EU in some areas, but outside these arrangements we wouldn't have to and the trade deal with the EU we would be able to get will reflect this. There was nothing in her speech which suggests a softer Brexit, just a slight acknowledgement of the economic damage her chosen course will inflict alongside a lot of overly optimistic assumptions of what the EU would agree to.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 04 Mar, 2018 9:45 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43276732" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Germany coalition deal: Social Democrats vote to join government

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 04 Mar, 2018 9:50 am

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ajid-javid" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nimby' councils failing to build enough homes will lose planning powers, says Javid

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sun 04 Mar, 2018 9:51 am

Morning all

Beautiful weather to start the day here

It is interesting to see adam referring to places in Wednesfield (my own little part of Wolverhmapton) - Kevin Rowland from Dexy's being our most famous ex-resident but we have had some successful gymnasts as well over the years

Especially fun to see Ashmore Park and Bilbrook mentioned in the same phrase.

Ashmore Park is rock solid Labour as well - current MP Emma Reynolds (yes, her - not my favourite) - although Wolverhampton NE went Tory in 87 - one of the kids at my school campaigned for them. He got his comeuppance in the 6th form centre though.. Bilbrook is South Staffs - next to Codsall - the MP being our much maligned Secretary of Defence. If slime could be converted into human form.

I have been reflecting a bit on this borders question and wonder if one of the reasons the British do not seem to get it is that we actually don't have any land borders so the concept is alien. We have the right of free movement but we are not in Schengen so always have to show a passport and we are an island so we cannot just stroll across a border as can happen in mainland Europe

I found it one of the most bizarre things that you could drive 20 minutes from where we live and be in France....and even better cross the Rhine to Germany over a medieval wooden bridge which has a line across the middle showing the border

I can just give my experience of living outside the EU and not having a CU

We go to France, cross at St Gingolph where there is a border post (most road routes do have some sort of border infrastructure for mobile customs that can penetrate up to 15 km into the neighbouring country
There are no passport checks and CH-France is normally quick but there are sometimes random stops
Coming back though there are numerous checks on goods as the prices are much cheaper in France due to the strong CHF and there are import limits on booze and meat/dairy especially - they do check frequently! You do not want to be in the Swiss car following in a lot of French cars as you will almost certainly be stopped
The French are only really checked in the mornings for work permits (people who live in France and work in Switzerland have to have a Permit G) and this is dependant on the Swiss mood - sometimes everyone is checked

For commercial goods, everybody goes through some sort of check and the border is closed (theoretically) for commercial vehicles after 10pm. I suppose you could pass but that would be considered as smuggling I guess - and there are cameras to check

I am not saying Ireland will be the same and may well be less intrusive as it can be here - but there will be checks I would expect on the main routes especially

There is also the risk that if goods are cheaper in the North than the South due to currency effects and/or differential taxation then there may be a real benefit for people shopping on one side or the other. Theoretically all goods from the North (or South) would need to be declared and VAT charged if over the duty free limit (this is the same for CH and France as well).

I can imagine that the losing side would want to see damage to their local border economy by cross-border shopping being permitted without control

Crossing the border from France/Germany to CH is relatively easy (especially on pedestrianised and small roads) but it can be painful - and the border is definitely still there despite Schengen. You also need to carry some form of id at all times - which for the UK is only a passport and theoretically a work permit is not sufficient - although it will usually do).

In practical terms one side will be okay with the other lot coming through to spend their money on their side of the border whilst the others won't. I think for the Irish border I would expect that the Irish will be much less relaxed about it economically - especially if the Euro is stronger than the pound

I don't think a lot of Brits really understand what it means to have a land border......and some of the ignorance you hear is worrying

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sun 04 Mar, 2018 10:27 am

further to the last, rather rambling, post

There is a border now (a national one), there will e a border in the future (a national one and and a 'supranational' one)

The desired outcome would be no change to the current state - whatever we call it

Any strengthening of checks would be regressive and cause real problems.

The issue for the people defining the future state is that for all intents and purposes the current border is non-existent - pretty much by design and any rules that exist are either very lightly applied or not applied at all. This can happen because we are both countries in the EU and there are no international barriers for us behaving like that

Once we leave the EU, and we no longer have the luxury of a blind eye being turned then the border will be significantly 'harder' than now. If the British try to have a continuation of the status quo without any legally binding treaty agreements then other countries - be it inside or outside the EU - will be raising objections very quickly and very loudly.

Post by **adam** » Sun 04 Mar, 2018 10:49 am

Barnier, consistently - 'there is no prospect of financial services being included in any trade deal'

May, again this morning - 'No “passporting” for the City of London after Brexit, it would leave the UK as “just a rule-taker”, instead financial services will be covered through a free trade deal.'

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 04 Mar, 2018 11:06 am

A triumph for George Osborne’s austerity plan? Not when our social fabric is in tatters
Ann Pettifor
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ost-hubris" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The impact of balancing the current budget has fallen most severely on women and low-income groups, as the Women’s Budget Group has shown. They are the nurses, carers, teachers and lecturers who deliver the civilisational services that make our society decent and stable; a place you want to live in. Cuts fell hardest on them, and on those who depend on their services.

But there has been another long-term and deeply damaging impact: the decline of Britain’s local democracy and accountability. Osborne, the most political and cynical of chancellors, shifted the worst impact of current budget cuts away from ministers and MPs and on to the shoulders of local politicians in every part of the country. It is doubtful that Britain’s local governments will ever recover.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 04 Mar, 2018 11:16 am

I like this comment under that article, this chap's got a way with words.

JMSutherland 32m ago

Austerity's purpose, if purpose it had, was never economic but entirely political. The simple-minded and wrong-headed analogy with a household budget was only ever intended to distract the hard of thinking while the government shat on the poor and disabled. What, bankers, City boys and fat cats to blame? No, no, look over there, immigrants, skivers, black people...and now councils. I doubt there are even many Tories stupid enough to have believed it.
There was certainly one, though. Universal Credit is the idiot child of Idiot Duncan-Shite, a man of such monumental stupidity that he can't fart and lose hair at the same time. How else can you account for something so imbecilic that it will actually cost a fortune just to make people's lives more miserable. When that fully rolls out there'll be a shit storm, and nobody will be manning the fan. Apart from Esther McVile, who has all the empathy and human decency of a wasp.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 04 Mar, 2018 11:33 am

HindleA wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43276732

Germany coalition deal: Social Democrats vote to join government

Ah well, farewell then the SPD.

It was good whilst it lasted.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 04 Mar, 2018 11:48 am

https://www.politico.eu/article/live-bl ... -election/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Live blog: Italian election

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 04 Mar, 2018 11:53 am

https://www.theguardian.com/social-care ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Care workers hailed for battling weather to keep services running

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 04 Mar, 2018 12:01 pm

https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news ... -law-cases" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

EHRC funding for housing discrimination and social security law cases

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/ ... l-security" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 04 Mar, 2018 12:07 pm

https://mainlymacro.blogspot.co.uk/2018 ... of-uk.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The economic and political cost of UK austerity

Wren-Lewis

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 04 Mar, 2018 12:09 pm

[youtube]wTXoTnp_5sI[/youtube]

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 04 Mar, 2018 12:12 pm

Tom Hulatt from around here ,ex miner,ratcatcher was third.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 04 Mar, 2018 12:30 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... cal-cancer" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Australia could become first country to eradicate cervical cancer

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 04 Mar, 2018 12:46 pm

Good-afternoon, everyone

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Sun 04 Mar, 2018 1:44 pm

https://amp.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news ... 67566.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Theresa May’s plan to maintain a soft Irish border after Brexit could be changed to accommodate European Union concerns, her deputy said amid signals that Brussels could reject it."

Cabinet Office minister David Lidington, the Prime Minister’s de facto number two, said her high-profile Friday speech was an “ambitious opening bid” for negotiations on trade.

snigger (sorry)

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sun 04 Mar, 2018 1:50 pm

tinybgoat wrote:https://amp.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news ... 67566.html
"Theresa May’s plan to maintain a soft Irish border after Brexit could be changed to accommodate European Union concerns, her deputy said amid signals that Brussels could reject it."
Cabinet Office minister David Lidington, the Prime Minister’s de facto number two, said her high-profile Friday speech was an “ambitious opening bid” for negotiations on trade.
snigger (sorry)

While massively important, it seems to me that customs controls at a post-Brexit Irish border are not the trickiest problem.

Why is nobody talking about freedom of movement? Anyone who has entered the EU anywhere will be able to cross into the UK and vice versa. How can there be any way to stop this without physical infrastructure at the border?

PTO