Tuesday 6th March 2018

A home from home
Forum rules
Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
User avatar
refitman
Site Admin
Posts: 7693
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 7:22 pm
Location: Wombwell, United Kingdom

Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by refitman »

Morning all.
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by HindleA »

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ble-people" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Voter ID trials 'risk disenfranchising vulnerable people'


Not all polling booths are accessible and they areputting barriers up..Hopefully,such obvious attempts to deny will backfire.
Last edited by HindleA on Tue 06 Mar, 2018 7:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by HindleA »

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... e-failures" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Hundreds of mental health patients dying after NHS care failures
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by HindleA »

https://dpac.uk.net/2018/03/the-folly-o ... ic-income/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by HindleA »

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Councils still without extra powers to crack down on empty homes
tinybgoat
Speaker of the House
Posts: 2231
Joined: Mon 23 Feb, 2015 8:23 am

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by tinybgoat »

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ble-people

Voter ID trials 'risk disenfranchising vulnerable people'


Not all polling booths are accessible and they areputting barriers up..Hopefully,such obvious attempts to deny will backfire.
https://www.yourvotematters.co.uk/how-d ... -in-person" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
In May 2018, if you are voting in Bromley, Gosport, Swindon, Watford or Woking you will need to take ID with you to the polling station to vote in the local elections. Without it you won’t be able to vote.
The ID requirements are different in the different council areas. If you live in one of the five council areas, you can find out what the ID requirements are where you live by visiting the relevant council website:
They're not kidding, they really are quite different, Bromley will allow various Id such as bank card, council tax bill etc,
Swindon won't but will accept poll card (or someone else vouching for you)
Gosport looks a bit unrealistic:
https://www.gosport.gov.uk/sections/you ... /identity/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Instead of bringing other forms of ID, you can apply for an Electoral Identity Letter to use in any borough polling station. There's no charge.
Step 1
First you will need to photograph or scan your documents and save them on your smart phone, tablet or computer.
Step 2
Now complete the Electoral Identity Letter Application Form with your details. (Please ensure you add your email address to ensure delivery of a confirmation receipt).
At the bottom of the form, there is a button that says 'Browse'. Select this and you will be able to browse your documents to attach them to the form.
Step 3
Select the 'Add another' button for each additional document you want to send us, then select the 'Submit' button. You will then be sent a confirmation email.
What then happens
The Returning Officer and his staff will then use the information you have provided to confirm your identity. This could be using current Borough Council records and systems, contacting other Local Authorities or Government organisations to make these checks.
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by HindleA »

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... t-students" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Don’t let this university wrecking government masquerade as reformers
Peter Scott
gilsey
Prime Minister
Posts: 6175
Joined: Thu 28 Aug, 2014 10:51 am

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by gilsey »

Brexit as a Mobius strip.
(Sorry if it stretches the page)
Attachments
DXlpkH4WsAANNlZ.jpg
DXlpkH4WsAANNlZ.jpg (200.38 KiB) Viewed 11204 times
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
PaulfromYorkshire
Site Admin
Posts: 8329
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 7:27 pm

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by PaulfromYorkshire »

It hasn't just stretched the page, when I get to the bottom I find I'm round the back of my computer ;-)
howsillyofme1
First Secretary of State
Posts: 3374
Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by howsillyofme1 »

Morning all

I see IDS has been talking nonsense again

Are some people really stupid

His latest contention is that Barnier is causing 'lots of anger in Europe' over the Irish border as they seem to think that the sequencing is so unfair to the UK as it is inextricably linked to a future trade deal

The problem is that IDS seems to be lacking a few brain cells

The EU position seems clear, fair and sensible

The EU has decided to legally guarantee no Irish border. If no deal that allows this to happen then the December Agreement principles kick in and the backstop is triggered

The UK maintain they can find a solution through trade deals or unicorns and fairydust.......there is no need for them to define the details now

The EU has actually allowed the UK time to define these because it doesn't need them now because of the legal clause in the WA

If there was no legal clause then the EU could demand the detail of wehat the UK proposes and if nothing was offered, refuse to sign the WA

There are a few issues now on this.

1. what is the legal definition of a 'hard border' in this context (see discussions passim)?
2. who decides if the definition has been met? I expect it will be the ECJ....see that going down well
3. how does the UK respond if NI stays in the current structures and whether the DUP will demand no Irish Sea border is in the WA or not?

The DUP says that everyone agreed no border in the Irish Sea - I don't think they meant everyone really - they meant May offered it as a way to save her bacon. The EU are not interested as it is an internal UK question as to whether NI sits behind an internal UK border or not.

So we could have a situation where the UK is not able to guarantee a sift border so the legal fall-back is triggered, and we have another cléause that states that there will be no border in the Irish Sea - so the only option would be for BINO.......

Personally, I think that we will know what will happen when the finaldraft of the WA is signed - if the 'hard border' definition is pretty much anything that is not the status quo then I think we are in the for a whole lot of trouble......I cannot see any solution being agreed

What a shambles this lot it
PaulfromYorkshire
Site Admin
Posts: 8329
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 7:27 pm

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by PaulfromYorkshire »

@HSOM

Agreed

As JA said the other day it's not tenable for anyone. Just imagine the first fence post being placed or the first camera being installed.

It's inconceivable.
User avatar
RogerOThornhill
Prime Minister
Posts: 11115
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 10:18 pm

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Morning all.

Talking of a shambles...pretty much describes this morning's swimming. Coach arrived 20 minutes late. Parked the wrong way round so pupils had to go into the road to board. Went what I would say was the wrong way and ended up in the usual morning traffic jam. Result - 10 minute swimming lesson.

And I'm off to Oxford again later so won't be around much this week.
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
AnatolyKasparov
Prime Minister
Posts: 15626
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

tinybgoat wrote:
HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ble-people

Voter ID trials 'risk disenfranchising vulnerable people'


Not all polling booths are accessible and they areputting barriers up..Hopefully,such obvious attempts to deny will backfire.
https://www.yourvotematters.co.uk/how-d ... -in-person" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
In May 2018, if you are voting in Bromley, Gosport, Swindon, Watford or Woking you will need to take ID with you to the polling station to vote in the local elections. Without it you won’t be able to vote.
The ID requirements are different in the different council areas. If you live in one of the five council areas, you can find out what the ID requirements are where you live by visiting the relevant council website:
They're not kidding, they really are quite different, Bromley will allow various Id such as bank card, council tax bill etc,
Swindon won't but will accept poll card (or someone else vouching for you)
Gosport looks a bit unrealistic:
https://www.gosport.gov.uk/sections/you ... /identity/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Instead of bringing other forms of ID, you can apply for an Electoral Identity Letter to use in any borough polling station. There's no charge.
Step 1
First you will need to photograph or scan your documents and save them on your smart phone, tablet or computer.
Step 2
Now complete the Electoral Identity Letter Application Form with your details. (Please ensure you add your email address to ensure delivery of a confirmation receipt).
At the bottom of the form, there is a button that says 'Browse'. Select this and you will be able to browse your documents to attach them to the form.
Step 3
Select the 'Add another' button for each additional document you want to send us, then select the 'Submit' button. You will then be sent a confirmation email.
What then happens
The Returning Officer and his staff will then use the information you have provided to confirm your identity. This could be using current Borough Council records and systems, contacting other Local Authorities or Government organisations to make these checks.
Still, none of them seem to be following the original hideous Pickles recommendation, which is that only a passport or driving licence would be acceptable.

(there are still a large number of people without either)
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
tinybgoat
Speaker of the House
Posts: 2231
Joined: Mon 23 Feb, 2015 8:23 am

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by tinybgoat »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
tinybgoat wrote: ... voter ID. checks...
Still, none of them seem to be following the original hideous Pickles recommendation, which is that only a passport or driving licence would be acceptable.

(there are still a large number of people without either)
https://www.woking.gov.uk/council/voterID" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Woking comes closest, it insists on photo Id. but allows a range of documents (railcards,bus passes etc) & states that expired passports are ok.
Also can apply for free 'elector card', but failing this, last resort is postal vote - which I'd have thought was potentially more open to fraud anyway.
(edit, don't drive, but have an expired passport)
tinybgoat
Speaker of the House
Posts: 2231
Joined: Mon 23 Feb, 2015 8:23 am

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by tinybgoat »

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 41946.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Nigel Dodds, the DUP’s leader in Westminster, added: “It’s somewhat ironic to talk about wanting to remove any checks between the border of NI and the Irish Republic and then the EU to suggest we should set up checks and another border between one part of the UK and another part of the UK. It’s driving a coach and horses through the EU’s principles of no hard borders
???
AnatolyKasparov
Prime Minister
Posts: 15626
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

DUP "logic".
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by HindleA »

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... s-failings" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mental health deaths: calls for inquiry into NHS failings
User avatar
citizenJA
Prime Minister
Posts: 20648
Joined: Thu 11 Sep, 2014 12:22 pm

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by citizenJA »

tinybgoat wrote:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 41946.html
Nigel Dodds, the DUP’s leader in Westminster, added: “It’s somewhat ironic to talk about wanting to remove any checks between the border of NI and the Irish Republic and then the EU to suggest we should set up checks and another border between one part of the UK and another part of the UK. It’s driving a coach and horses through the EU’s principles of no hard borders
???
She does know Ireland isn't part of the UK, right?

Edited to apologise for posting too soon prior re-reading
It's not Arlene speaking, it's not an Ireland-UK border questioned, the problem is Dodds not understanding hard borders aren't an EU problem. What I mean by 'not an EU problem' is a hard border requirement is a function of the UK leaving its current trade agreements without negotiating new ones. The World Trade Organisation (WTO) requires a hard border.
Last edited by citizenJA on Tue 06 Mar, 2018 2:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
citizenJA
Prime Minister
Posts: 20648
Joined: Thu 11 Sep, 2014 12:22 pm

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by citizenJA »

Good-afternoon, everyone
User avatar
citizenJA
Prime Minister
Posts: 20648
Joined: Thu 11 Sep, 2014 12:22 pm

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by citizenJA »

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:@HSOM

Agreed

As JA said the other day it's not tenable for anyone. Just imagine the first fence post being placed or the first camera being installed.

It's inconceivable.
It's not okay now
The situation can change rapidly
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by HindleA »

[youtube]bZvwSDlS9oU[/youtube]
User avatar
citizenJA
Prime Minister
Posts: 20648
Joined: Thu 11 Sep, 2014 12:22 pm

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by citizenJA »

That voter identity proof, different rules, different places, it's wrong, it's how Tories stay elected
It effectively disenfranchises many
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by HindleA »

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 37321.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Vulnerable children forced into homelessness as local authorities routinely ignore child protection laws
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by HindleA »

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/nhs- ... 18-to-2019" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


NHS-funded nursing care rate announced for 2018 to 2019
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by HindleA »

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... t-response" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


CMA care homes market study: government response
Government response to the Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) final report on the care homes market.
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by HindleA »

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... sal-credit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Government response: SSAC report on in-work progression and Universal Credit


(Removal of possibility of work in what was our case "irony")
User avatar
citizenJA
Prime Minister
Posts: 20648
Joined: Thu 11 Sep, 2014 12:22 pm

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by citizenJA »

Life isn't static, it's fluid
Look what happened after May called for a GE in 2017, for an example
Events create change
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by HindleA »

How dare you not "conform"!!!
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by HindleA »

Increase the disregard of course,the sane and obvious solution but off benefits obsessive stupidity reigns supreme.
User avatar
citizenJA
Prime Minister
Posts: 20648
Joined: Thu 11 Sep, 2014 12:22 pm

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by citizenJA »

HindleA wrote:Increase the disregard of course,the sane and obvious solution but off benefits obsessive stupidity reigns supreme.
It's a hard day for me, brother
Could you write a bit more explaining what you mean here, please?
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by HindleA »

But of course many policies create needlessly the need for benefits,particularly the continued residualisation of contributory,social care before you get to extra costs allowance.We avoided means tested for some time.Certainly now would have been earlier,higher rate and relinquishing employment far earlier.
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by HindleA »

And when circumstances changed again,"transition" in place and on assumption no need for benefits.It worked as it should,wouldn't be the case now.
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by HindleA »

Due to hardly unique circumstances I could only work a few hours a week at best(not expected to ),you used to be able get housing support as income (£30 p.w average-ours was less)In our case £20 of earnings (plus half work pension contribution) was disregarded in benefit calculation-not many do it but it was a manner in which to increase income,keep employed,pay towards pension when the hours of being able to work were uncertain ie a base.
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by HindleA »

Ie they've needlessly made it binary.
User avatar
citizenJA
Prime Minister
Posts: 20648
Joined: Thu 11 Sep, 2014 12:22 pm

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by citizenJA »

HindleA wrote:Ie they've needlessly made it binary.
Tory policy needs it
User avatar
citizenJA
Prime Minister
Posts: 20648
Joined: Thu 11 Sep, 2014 12:22 pm

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by citizenJA »

HindleA wrote:How dare you not "conform"!!!
It's not through lack of trying
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by HindleA »

Hence my increasing view that boosting extra costs allowance/NHS route for accounting for housing costs in own home self/care may be the better route,given non distinction/getting caughtup in the "benefit' thing.
User avatar
citizenJA
Prime Minister
Posts: 20648
Joined: Thu 11 Sep, 2014 12:22 pm

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by citizenJA »

HindleA wrote:Hence my increasing view that boosting extra costs allowance/NHS route for accounting for housing costs in own home self/care may be the better route,given non distinction/getting caughtup in the "benefit' thing.
(cJA bold)

Apologies, please explain more, I don't understand the bold bit.
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by HindleA »

I was in my 30's before even thinking about a mortgage did live in work in a shoebox for some years atno stage did I think it unfair that a sick/disabled/carer getting a few quid a week towards their housing costs.It's a weird psychology to me,to potentially remove support from your future self on the basis of totally different circumstances.
User avatar
citizenJA
Prime Minister
Posts: 20648
Joined: Thu 11 Sep, 2014 12:22 pm

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by citizenJA »

HindleA wrote:I was in my 30's before even thinking about a mortgage did live in work in a shoebox for some years atno stage did I think it unfair that a sick/disabled/carer getting a few quid a week towards their housing costs.It's a weird psychology to me,to potentially remove support from your future self on the basis of totally different circumstances.
You've thoroughly internalised the fact you and others are all equally important, worthy of consideration and support as needed.
AnatolyKasparov
Prime Minister
Posts: 15626
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

RogerOThornhill wrote: And I'm off to Oxford again later so won't be around much this week
Have fun.....
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by HindleA »

Some account for housing costs-given vast cost saving,supposed preferred direction of travel in own home care/self care,either enhanced bespoke PIP/DLA or health/social care budget -dialysis a good example -the NHS contributed,automatic DLA,CT reduction for room etc.Of course we still paid the mortgage partly via DLA,my fear as ever ',extra costs allowance' the excuse to remove even further.
User avatar
citizenJA
Prime Minister
Posts: 20648
Joined: Thu 11 Sep, 2014 12:22 pm

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by citizenJA »

“...the Tory Party...condemned millions of first-class people to semi-starvation. Now the Tories are pouring out money in propaganda of all sorts and are hoping by this organised sustained mass suggestion to eradicate from our minds all memory of what we went through.”

- Aneurin Bevan - July 3rd, 1948
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by HindleA »

Doing my bit to decrease the Labour vote here on Sunday door knocking,when I get to myself I've asked Tarquin to "be easy".
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by HindleA »

Red dressing gown.
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by HindleA »

Constance looking like the cat that got the cream,probably because she just has.
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by HindleA »

https://www.theguardian.com/voluntary-s ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


I volunteer to help vulnerable people the jobcentre lets down


(Made vulnerable)
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by HindleA »

@cja "enlightened self interest",I don't like the "intergenerational fairness" divisive stuff,or the comparative fairness reduction for others technique in general,it is hateful before you get to the fact that many ascribed get hit that don't fit into the easy fit categories.Most noticeably the presentation of social care as "an elderly problem"
AnatolyKasparov
Prime Minister
Posts: 15626
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Its gone quiet in here again.......
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
tinybgoat
Speaker of the House
Posts: 2231
Joined: Mon 23 Feb, 2015 8:23 am

Re: Tuesday 6th March 2018

Post by tinybgoat »

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-43301773" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Ousted UKIP leader Henry Bolton 'to set up new party'"
In an explanation of the need for a new party, Mr Bolton said: "There is a need for a truly professional political party that believes in Britain, that preserves our national identity, culture, heritage and confidence and talks our great nation up rather than down; a party dedicated to the full independence of the UK in all areas of law, government and public administration."
He added that UKIP had held that position until the 2016 referendum.
Locked