Saturday 26th, Sunday 27th and Monday 28th May 2018
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Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
Saturday 26th, Sunday 27th and Monday 28th May 2018
Good morfternoon.
Last edited by refitman on Sat 26 May, 2018 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Bank holiday
Reason: Bank holiday
Re: Saturday, 26th May and Sunday, 27th May 2018
I'm watching Sky TV News. Kay Burley banging on about the (predicted) 32% of Irish voters who opted for "No" in the Irish Referendum on a change to the abortion law there. It's the same line she takes on the EU Referendum here.
What?
What?
Re: Saturday, 26th May and Sunday, 27th May 2018
Assuming the exit poll is right, the result is a wonderful thing and leaves NI looking a little isolated.
Welcome to the 21st century, Ireland.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
Re: Saturday, 26th May and Sunday, 27th May 2018
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... c-cummings" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Accusations are beginning to fly among the co-conspirators. No wonder the foreign secretary needs his jet plane"
"Accusations are beginning to fly among the co-conspirators. No wonder the foreign secretary needs his jet plane"
Occasionally it feels like metaphors are our last great manufacturing industry. On Tuesday Theresa May visited the Chelsea Flower Show, where she was shown a cowpat, which she pronounced “wonderful”.Cow shit means cow shit, and I guess the cow had made a success of it. Even so, the prime minister’s insistence on being ludicrously positive about literally any old doodah is surely nearing its endgame.
Or is it?...
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Re: Saturday, 26th May and Sunday, 27th May 2018
Morning all.
In which Peter Hitchens gets told a thing or two about stats and history...
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It wasn't until relatively recently that I read that it was Edward Boyle who started the dismantling of the grammar system. And yet it's always Labour who get the blame. Funny that...
In which Peter Hitchens gets told a thing or two about stats and history...
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It wasn't until relatively recently that I read that it was Edward Boyle who started the dismantling of the grammar system. And yet it's always Labour who get the blame. Funny that...
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
Re: Saturday, 26th May and Sunday, 27th May 2018
This is just nonsense:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Tories' 'secretly plotting to replace Theresa May with Michael Gove - before Ruth Davidson steps in'
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Saturday, 26th May and Sunday, 27th May 2018
Roscommon - only county to vote against legalising gay marriage - votes yes to repealing the 8th.
I still believe in a town called Hope
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Re: Saturday, 26th May and Sunday, 27th May 2018
As somebody said on Twitter, to suggest this "plan" was written on the back of a fag packet is very possibly being over generous.Willow904 wrote:This is just nonsense:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Tories' 'secretly plotting to replace Theresa May with Michael Gove - before Ruth Davidson steps in'
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Saturday, 26th May and Sunday, 27th May 2018
The fine art of understatement.gilsey wrote:Assuming the exit poll is right, the result is a wonderful thing and leaves NI looking a little isolated.
It's a sign of how weak our government are that they haven't already demanded that NI - which is exactly like the rest of the UK in every way, as British as Surrey and cannot possibly be left with different arrangements to the rest of the UK - steps into line with equality legislation.
I still believe in a town called Hope
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Re: Saturday, 26th May and Sunday, 27th May 2018
Looking like Donegal may be the lone holdout this time.adam wrote:Roscommon - only county to vote against legalising gay marriage - votes yes to repealing the 8th.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Saturday, 26th May and Sunday, 27th May 2018
Good-afternoon, everyone
Re: Saturday, 26th May and Sunday, 27th May 2018
Absurdities like these make me wonder what's really going onAnatolyKasparov wrote:As somebody said on Twitter, to suggest this "plan" was written on the back of a fag packet is very possibly being over generous.Willow904 wrote:This is just nonsense:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;Tories' 'secretly plotting to replace Theresa May with Michael Gove - before Ruth Davidson steps in'
Re: Saturday, 26th May and Sunday, 27th May 2018
The official results page for the referendum is here.
I still believe in a town called Hope
Re: Saturday, 26th May and Sunday, 27th May 2018
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/ ... egins-liveFr. Kevin M. Cusick
@MCITLFrAphorism
Let us pray together that satanic evil has not gained a foothold in Ireland, through legalized killing of the most innocent life in the womb, that will now take many years to exorcise. #SaveThe8th
3:18 pm - 25 May 2018 (Guardian - my emphasis))
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Re: Saturday, 26th May and Sunday, 27th May 2018
Satanic evil eh?
Wonder what his views are on abortion in the case of rape or incest?
I was going to say "What would you say if your daughter..." and then remembered.
Wonder what his views are on abortion in the case of rape or incest?
I was going to say "What would you say if your daughter..." and then remembered.
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
Re: Saturday, 26th May and Sunday, 27th May 2018
41.2% voter turnoutadam wrote:The official results page for the referendum is here.
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Re: Saturday, 26th May and Sunday, 27th May 2018
That is not a complete figure, does not include those areas yet to report their final results.citizenJA wrote:41.2% voter turnoutadam wrote:The official results page for the referendum is here.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Saturday, 26th May and Sunday, 27th May 2018
Thank you, AK!
Re: Saturday, 26th May and Sunday, 27th May 2018
My Internet connection is sporadically functional
Re: Saturday, 26th May and Sunday, 27th May 2018
Assisted dying should be made legal here (and elsewhere). I feel that the arguments made in Ireland for the legalisation of abortion hold equal validity for the issue of assisted dying.
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Re: Saturday, 26th May and Sunday, 27th May 2018
Interesting. I hadn't thought about that parallel previously.PorFavor wrote:Assisted dying should be made legal here (and elsewhere). I feel that the arguments made in Ireland for the legalisation of abortion hold equal validity for the issue of assisted dying.
Re: Saturday, 26th May and Sunday, 27th May 2018
Does anyone here know why County Donegal should be the last place to declare a result (as in - are there any particular circumstances prevailing there, or is it just a case of "well, somebody has to be last")? I gather that the result is very close there.
Edited - typo
Edited - typo
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Re: Saturday, 26th May and Sunday, 27th May 2018
Oh, and BANK HOLIDAY KLAXON for this thread
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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Re: Saturday, 26th May and Sunday, 27th May 2018
My dad used to say on the back of a postcard, but when it was dire, he'd say on the back of a stamp....AnatolyKasparov wrote:As somebody said on Twitter, to suggest this "plan" was written on the back of a fag packet is very possibly being over generous.Willow904 wrote:This is just nonsense:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Tories' 'secretly plotting to replace Theresa May with Michael Gove - before Ruth Davidson steps in'
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
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Re: Saturday, 26th May and Sunday, 27th May 2018
Irish Political Maps
@IrishPolMaps
Here it is, the final result. 66.4% Yes, 33.6% No. Ireland has #Repealedthe8th
@IrishPolMaps
Here it is, the final result. 66.4% Yes, 33.6% No. Ireland has #Repealedthe8th
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
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Re: Saturday, 26th May and Sunday, 27th May 2018
Turnout was 64%, not too shabby either.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Saturday, 26th May and Sunday, 27th May 2018
So we've got the thunder & lightning this evening, which just leaves me wondering who got the hot weather that normally precedes it because we certainly didn't.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Saturday, 26th May and Sunday, 27th May 2018
Was is very, very frightening?Willow904 wrote:So we've got the thunder & lightning this evening, which just leaves me wondering who got the hot weather that normally precedes it because we certainly didn't.
Re: Saturday 26th, Sunday 27th and Monday 28th May 2018
Next up in 'You really can't make this stuff up':
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... s-12594924" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;Top Tories in electoral fraud minister's local party arrested over electoral fraud allegations
Two vice chairs of Norwich Conservatives, the local party of Chloe Smith, the minister in charge of fighting electoral fraud were arrested on Thursday
Re: Saturday, 26th May and Sunday, 27th May 2018
28° 40nm SE of Jersey this afternoon , went swimming at the beachWillow904 wrote:So we've got the thunder & lightning this evening, which just leaves me wondering who got the hot weather that normally precedes it because we certainly didn't.
PS then had the massive black sky thunder and lightning !
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Re: Saturday 26th, Sunday 27th and Monday 28th May 2018
Good morning, all
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Saturday 26th, Sunday 27th and Monday 28th May 2018
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... government" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"UK nuclear plans 'risk collapse if Hitachi talks fail'"
"UK nuclear plans 'risk collapse if Hitachi talks fail'"
Japanese media have reported the UK government’s loan for the project could be as much as £13bn, and put the total cost of the plant at more than £20bn, even more than Hinkley Point C. The details are understood to have been leaked by the Japanese government, not Hitachi, and the UK government has said it “does not recognise” the reports.
Re: Saturday 26th, Sunday 27th and Monday 28th May 2018
Thread
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Maria Farrell
@mariafarrell
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Irish ppl voted on specific change to written constitution, based on a fair idea of what the enacting legislation would be.
Brexit: open-ended question, little discussion of how it would work, no enacting legislation, no clear way to interpret result vis a vis Parliament.
9:00 AM - 27 May 2018
Maria Farrell
@mariafarrell
4h4 hours ago
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Irish political system worked rigorously through the EVIDENCE and testimony; experts, affected women, etc. in disciplined + public way with a well-reported parliamentary committee to deliberate, resulting in some politicians changing their minds.
British system: did not.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Maria Farrell
@mariafarrell
Follow Follow @mariafarrell
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Irish ppl voted on specific change to written constitution, based on a fair idea of what the enacting legislation would be.
Brexit: open-ended question, little discussion of how it would work, no enacting legislation, no clear way to interpret result vis a vis Parliament.
9:00 AM - 27 May 2018
Maria Farrell
@mariafarrell
4h4 hours ago
More
Irish political system worked rigorously through the EVIDENCE and testimony; experts, affected women, etc. in disciplined + public way with a well-reported parliamentary committee to deliberate, resulting in some politicians changing their minds.
British system: did not.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
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Re: Saturday 26th, Sunday 27th and Monday 28th May 2018
Yes, there's a fair number of the "Oh, so you like referendums now I see!" floating around.
I forget who said it but that the Irish one was precisely the sort of issue that lends itself well to a referendum.
I forget who said it but that the Irish one was precisely the sort of issue that lends itself well to a referendum.
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
Re: Saturday 26th, Sunday 27th and Monday 28th May 2018
Good-afternoon, everyone
Re: Saturday 26th, Sunday 27th and Monday 28th May 2018
a straightforward, honest and conclusive referendumRogerOThornhill wrote:Yes, there's a fair number of the "Oh, so you like referendums now I see!" floating around.
I forget who said it but that the Irish one was precisely the sort of issue that lends itself well to a referendum.
Re: Saturday 26th, Sunday 27th and Monday 28th May 2018
More straightforward ... but what would they have done if it was 50.0001% YES and 49.9999% NO ?citizenJA wrote:a straightforward, honest and conclusive referendumRogerOThornhill wrote:Yes, there's a fair number of the "Oh, so you like referendums now I see!" floating around.
I forget who said it but that the Irish one was precisely the sort of issue that lends itself well to a referendum.
I’m curious, was there any discussion of this possibility ?
Re: Saturday 26th, Sunday 27th and Monday 28th May 2018
Apologies...I'm researching something else at the moment and can't answer your questionfrog222 wrote:More straightforward ... but what would they have done if it was 50.0001% YES and 49.9999% NO ?citizenJA wrote:a straightforward, honest and conclusive referendumRogerOThornhill wrote:Yes, there's a fair number of the "Oh, so you like referendums now I see!" floating around.
I forget who said it but that the Irish one was precisely the sort of issue that lends itself well to a referendum.
I’m curious, was there any discussion of this possibility ?
Tidy website linked below giving all the details of the referendum
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/bills/bill/2018/29/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Saturday 26th, Sunday 27th and Monday 28th May 2018
I've wondered exactly that about the 2014 Scottish independence referendum.......frog222 wrote:More straightforward ... but what would they have done if it was 50.0001% YES and 49.9999% NO ?citizenJA wrote:a straightforward, honest and conclusive referendumRogerOThornhill wrote:Yes, there's a fair number of the "Oh, so you like referendums now I see!" floating around.
I forget who said it but that the Irish one was precisely the sort of issue that lends itself well to a referendum.
I’m curious, was there any discussion of this possibility ?
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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Re: Saturday 26th, Sunday 27th and Monday 28th May 2018
Oh look, another one.
If they were that certain about the UK's position on everything Brexity, these snide comments wouldn't be happening.Mark Littlewood
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Am already looking forward to a second referendum in Ireland on abortion to make doubly sure that the electorate really did know what the the hell they were voting for. Am hoping Gina Miller will litigate to force a re-run.
2:11 PM - 26 May 2018
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
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Re: Saturday 26th, Sunday 27th and Monday 28th May 2018
Everybody out enjoying today's glorious weather, i presume?
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Saturday 26th, Sunday 27th and Monday 28th May 2018
Not especially. It's horribly muggy out. More thunder & lightning tonight I expect.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Saturday 26th, Sunday 27th and Monday 28th May 2018
Not exactly enjoying pulling up ground elder, but yes it's a beautiful day.AnatolyKasparov wrote:Everybody out enjoying today's glorious weather, i presume?
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
Re: Saturday 26th, Sunday 27th and Monday 28th May 2018
Thunder and lightening heregilsey wrote:Not exactly enjoying pulling up ground elder, but yes it's a beautiful day.AnatolyKasparov wrote:Everybody out enjoying today's glorious weather, i presume?
Re: Saturday 26th, Sunday 27th and Monday 28th May 2018
Out at Star Wars: SoloAnatolyKasparov wrote:Everybody out enjoying today's glorious weather, i presume?
(warm & muggy,esp. walk back up hill)
Re: Saturday 26th, Sunday 27th and Monday 28th May 2018
http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2018 ... s-funding/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and from one of the comments btlthe sheer poverty of the IFS thinking. Paul Johnson admitted on the Today programme this morning, which I endured on my way down to Stansted, that he might suffer from a lack of imagination. Let me assure you, I agree. And the reason is obvious. Johnson simply cannot imagine the world changing. His whole analysis exists in a world where ceterus paribus holds true. But it does not.
I have not checked the report as yet to see what it says about automation so I will stick to discussion of tax where what the IFS is saying is that nothing will change. Johnson's commentary made this clear. We can't tax business: he thinks it will run away. Land and wealth taxes won't collect much, he says. And as for changes to allowances and reliefs, most especially when it comes to subsidising the already wealthy? Of that there was not a hint.
Let me put this in context. The IFS seem to be looking for about £30bn a year. That is, as I have shown, half the sum that subsidies to pension and ISA saving in the UK now cost each year. All of that sum goes as a subsidy to the City to effectively over inflate the price of shares. Johnson should know that. But he said on Radio 4 that there was nothing he could imagine cutting now that could meet health care costs. The only explanation for that is that he is not thinking, or cannot think, or wants to perpetuate the tax inequality we have in the UK where the wealthy pay no bigger a share of their income in tax than most in the population do.
A democratically elected government has a duty to do its utmost to ensure the wellbeing of its citizens and this government is failing to do that. A government is not like a household , it does not have to live within its means; it can create all the money it needs to do what needs to be done providing there are people willing to do the work and materials and equipment that can be purchased.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
Re: Saturday 26th, Sunday 27th and Monday 28th May 2018
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6387933/f ... s-promise/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"THERESA May faces Brexiteers’ fury over a plan for a huge taxpayer-funded NHS budget hike."
Also the pdf highlighted in it, suggesting changes to taxation system.
"THERESA May faces Brexiteers’ fury over a plan for a huge taxpayer-funded NHS budget hike."
It's the Sun & It's Priti Patel but presumably she really said this?! It almost makes Theresa May look good by at least sourcing specific funds, Though as one of the comments on Richard Murphy's blog saysShe wants a three per cent deal in summer that would hit the target of £350million a week more by the next election — the sum Brexiteers said could go to the NHS once we quit the EU.
Ideas include a 1p tax rise or a pensions raid.
But it has angered Brexiteers who want to use the £350million weekly saving.
Ex-Cabinet minister Priti Patel said: “The PM said she would guarantee that when we take back control of our money, it would be spent on domestic priorities, including the NHS. That should be the priority.”
Definitely worth reading blog (from Gilsey's link, above)Methinks this might just be the start of a softening-up process of the people to creating a hypothecated ‘ NHS Tax ‘ ; an insurance premium by any other name, given that moving
healthcare towards an insurance based system like the US is their long term goal.
Also the pdf highlighted in it, suggesting changes to taxation system.
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Re: Saturday 26th, Sunday 27th and Monday 28th May 2018
Morning all. House upside-down due to new kitchen being fitted. Who knew there was so much stuff in there?
Uncle Savage
@Uncle_savage00
May 27
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1981:
1. Prince from England married
2. Liverpool wins the Champions League
3. The pope dies
2005:
1. Prince from England married
2. Liverpool wins the Champions League
3. The pope dies
2018:
1. Prince from England gets married
2. Liverpool's keeper saves the Pope
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
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Re: Saturday 26th, Sunday 27th and Monday 28th May 2018
And now the cat, having managed to rip open the plastic food bag and gorge herself before I got downstairs, has gone into hiding at the back of my hi-fi...strangers in the house.
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
Re: Saturday 26th, Sunday 27th and Monday 28th May 2018
It's a bit more complicated than the btl comment, though. Money is issued into the economy by the government through spending and retrieved again through taxation. If too much money is left in the economy you end up with too much inflation. So a government can't just spend money and not tax at all, there has to be a balance. And once you get a rough balance, where you spend and where you tax become the real question. Consumer spending is going down at the moment, so more tax on working age consumers could have a recessionary effect on the economy. Whereas the above article is pointing out that we do seem to have quite a bit of inflation in assets - house prices and the stock market - in part as a result of government spending (e.g. help to buy) and low taxation in these areas.gilsey wrote:http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2018 ... s-funding/and from one of the comments btlthe sheer poverty of the IFS thinking. Paul Johnson admitted on the Today programme this morning, which I endured on my way down to Stansted, that he might suffer from a lack of imagination. Let me assure you, I agree. And the reason is obvious. Johnson simply cannot imagine the world changing. His whole analysis exists in a world where ceterus paribus holds true. But it does not.
I have not checked the report as yet to see what it says about automation so I will stick to discussion of tax where what the IFS is saying is that nothing will change. Johnson's commentary made this clear. We can't tax business: he thinks it will run away. Land and wealth taxes won't collect much, he says. And as for changes to allowances and reliefs, most especially when it comes to subsidising the already wealthy? Of that there was not a hint.
Let me put this in context. The IFS seem to be looking for about £30bn a year. That is, as I have shown, half the sum that subsidies to pension and ISA saving in the UK now cost each year. All of that sum goes as a subsidy to the City to effectively over inflate the price of shares. Johnson should know that. But he said on Radio 4 that there was nothing he could imagine cutting now that could meet health care costs. The only explanation for that is that he is not thinking, or cannot think, or wants to perpetuate the tax inequality we have in the UK where the wealthy pay no bigger a share of their income in tax than most in the population do.A democratically elected government has a duty to do its utmost to ensure the wellbeing of its citizens and this government is failing to do that. A government is not like a household , it does not have to live within its means; it can create all the money it needs to do what needs to be done providing there are people willing to do the work and materials and equipment that can be purchased.
The point about governments being able to spend as much as resources allow is roughly correct, but is made within the context of taxation already in place to retrieve the money spent. Money spent on public sector workers, for instance, is retrieved through income tax and NI. They then spend money on goods and thus VAT and so on. Money spent propping up property prices and the stock market, as our government has done since 2010, takes much longer to retrieve, if it can be retrieved at all and this is a large part of the problem with our economy at the moment. And the fact it has been deliberate is why only a change of government will change it.
The btl comment certainly isn't wrong, but we do have limits on available working age people, especially if we reject immigration, and we do have limits on natural resources, especially if we face barriers and costs to importing materials. Which is why there are concerns about how Brexit might limit a left wing government's ability to achieve the things it wants to achieve.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb