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 Post subject: Monday 4th June 2018
PostPosted: Mon 04 Jun, 2018 6:57 am 
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Morning all.

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 Post subject: Re: Monday 4th June 2018
PostPosted: Mon 04 Jun, 2018 7:11 am 
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Morning !

On Toady earlier Andy Burnham threatened to take away franchises from Northern ... AND Network Rail. Which confirms all my previous thoughts on his ability .

Previous links here show that it's far more complicated than a binary public/private dimension.

https://twitter.com/garius/status/1002527567075823616

https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/temporary-timetables

I think it was Willow who posed the question, who decided to go ahead with the new timetable. Was it Grayling ?


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 Post subject: Re: Monday 4th June 2018
PostPosted: Mon 04 Jun, 2018 7:28 am 
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Also on R4, Bill Clinton coming out FOR paper votes in elections, with an example on how easy it is to hack electronic systems.


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 Post subject: Re: Monday 4th June 2018
PostPosted: Mon 04 Jun, 2018 8:00 am 
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frog222 wrote:
Also on R4, Bill Clinton coming out FOR paper votes in elections, with an example on how easy it is to hack electronic systems.


At the end of the day, paper votes are much easier for a regular person to oversee and validate. Ordinary members of the public can make very reliable and objective tellers. Candidates can oversee and reassure themselves a paper count has been done properly and by the book. How many people have the technical expertise to be able to ensure an electronic count is valid?

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 Post subject: Re: Monday 4th June 2018
PostPosted: Mon 04 Jun, 2018 8:47 am 
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Willow904 wrote:
frog222 wrote:
Also on R4, Bill Clinton coming out FOR paper votes in elections, with an example on how easy it is to hack electronic systems.


At the end of the day, paper votes are much easier for a regular person to oversee and validate. Ordinary members of the public can make very reliable and objective tellers. Candidates can oversee and reassure themselves a paper count has been done properly and by the book. How many people have the technical expertise to be able to ensure an electronic count is valid?

"" How many people have the technical expertise to be able to ensure an electronic count is valid?""

Proving the negative of zero-fraud might be next to impossible ...

My ignorance of procedure, who does the counting, volunteers or paid etc, is extreme, being disenfranchised for so long, but I think in Germany 'ordinary people' do it as a duty with a nominal €payment, like jury service . One friend in Hamburg was asked to come back in succeeding elections as a supervisor . Observing one ward in Caen a few years ago I was impressed by the numbers doing the counting in a ward of only 2 or 3000 people .

That is surely one way of keeping people involved in their democracy, where you have the physical presence of voting and counting, as opposed to dashing off your vote on a smartphone (while perhaps carrying on with important gaming/online shopping) and then leaving the counting to Diebold and Friends :-)

That was the main reason why I disagreed with the UK 'reform' on postal voting.


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 Post subject: Re: Monday 4th June 2018
PostPosted: Mon 04 Jun, 2018 8:51 am 
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frog222 wrote:
{snip/snip}My ignorance of procedure, who does the counting, volunteers or paid etc, is extreme, being disenfranchised for so long, but I think in Germany 'ordinary people' do it as a duty with a nominal €payment, like jury service . One friend in Hamburg was asked to come back in succeeding elections as a supervisor .


The standard here is that local authority employees do it as an extra stand-alone job to apply for. (I suspect that it was a general 'anyone can apply for this' kind of job but that LA employees always knew about it and got there first - or it was a kind of 'dead man's shoes' job, the same people every time for as long as they can/want to.)

The North-East parliamentary seats that take part in the race to be first on general election nights starting hiring bank-tellers to count the papers because they were used to counting notes - that was back in the 90s, I don't know how automated bank-note counting has become since then...

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 Post subject: Re: Monday 4th June 2018
PostPosted: Mon 04 Jun, 2018 9:23 am 
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Grenfell

Quote:
Richard Millet QC says “the fundamental question at the heart of our work” is how in London in 2017 a domestic fire spread so “catastrophically”, shattering families, devastating the community and bequeathing an inheritance of “injustice, betrayal and marginalisation”. In summary, he says the question is “Why?”


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/liv ... ve-updates

https://www.grenfelltowerinquiry.org.uk/evidence

Quote:
In case you missed it over the weekend, Edward Daffarn, the Grenfell Tower resident who issued warnings in 2016 that disaster would strike, told the Guardian in an interview that he expects the inquiry to expose every part of the decision-making process before the fire as “rotten and cancerous”.

He said:

Every single link in this chain is going to be found to be rotten and cancerous. The government didn’t implement the inquest recommendations after the Lakanal House fire where six people died in 2009. Had they done that Grenfell wouldn’t have happened. RBKC (Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea) failed to carry out scrutiny of the TMO (tenants management organisation).

The way the TMO operated, the handling of the contracts, the construction, through to the building regs, the materials that were used, the consultation process.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... r-disaster

I think the problem is going to be that there are so many people to blame. Buck passing will be the name of the game.

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 Post subject: Re: Monday 4th June 2018
PostPosted: Mon 04 Jun, 2018 10:48 am 
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adam wrote:
frog222 wrote:
{snip/snip}My ignorance of procedure, who does the counting, volunteers or paid etc, is extreme, being disenfranchised for so long, but I think in Germany 'ordinary people' do it as a duty with a nominal €payment, like jury service . One friend in Hamburg was asked to come back in succeeding elections as a supervisor .


The standard here is that local authority employees do it as an extra stand-alone job to apply for. (I suspect that it was a general 'anyone can apply for this' kind of job but that LA employees always knew about it and got there first - or it was a kind of 'dead man's shoes' job, the same people every time for as long as they can/want to.)

The North-East parliamentary seats that take part in the race to be first on general election nights starting hiring bank-tellers to count the papers because they were used to counting notes - that was back in the 90s, I don't know how automated bank-note counting has become since then...


My german example was that people did it as a duty rather than a way of getting extra cash .


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 Post subject: Re: Monday 4th June 2018
PostPosted: Mon 04 Jun, 2018 11:25 am 
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Burnham is grandstanding, but arguably there are times when a bit of that is needed.


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 Post subject: Re: Monday 4th June 2018
PostPosted: Mon 04 Jun, 2018 12:20 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Burnham is grandstanding, but arguably there are times when a bit of that is needed.

I agree, it's the power a regional mayor has available


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 Post subject: Re: Monday 4th June 2018
PostPosted: Mon 04 Jun, 2018 12:22 pm 
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Good-afternoon, everyone


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 Post subject: Re: Monday 4th June 2018
PostPosted: Mon 04 Jun, 2018 3:04 pm 
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Quote:
BREAKING: EU withdrawal bill will come back to the Commons on June 12. It will be one bruising 12 hour session for all 15 amendments, starting at 12.30


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 Post subject: Re: Monday 4th June 2018
PostPosted: Mon 04 Jun, 2018 3:09 pm 
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Ah, thought they might try something like that.


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 Post subject: Re: Monday 4th June 2018
PostPosted: Mon 04 Jun, 2018 3:48 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Ah, thought they might try something like that.

It's a gamble and a half isn't it?

Could it backfire spectacularly?

I mean If you were thinking of being a serial Tory rebel, it might be easier just to do it all in one go.


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 Post subject: Re: Monday 4th June 2018
PostPosted: Mon 04 Jun, 2018 4:37 pm 
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Afternoon all. Library day today - OK-ish, didn't find what I was looking for...but found a couple of other intriguing bits.

Quote:
Tony Grew

@ayestotheright
1h
1 hour ago


More
Esther McVey just accused Labour of not knowing what sub judice means and then the Speaker explained that the case she keeps referring to isn't sub judice.


:D

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 Post subject: Re: Monday 4th June 2018
PostPosted: Mon 04 Jun, 2018 4:39 pm 
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Quote:
Sarah Wollaston MP
‏Verified account
@sarahwollaston
10h
10 hours ago


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If Arlene Foster says: “We have said to PM that for us our only red line is that we are not treated differently from the rest of the UK...thats what we will judge all of the propositions against that red line” then that also should also apply to women’s rights @faisalislam


Yep.

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 Post subject: Re: Monday 4th June 2018
PostPosted: Mon 04 Jun, 2018 4:42 pm 
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Esther has never been the brightest tool in the box really :D


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 Post subject: Re: Monday 4th June 2018
PostPosted: Mon 04 Jun, 2018 9:04 pm 
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On the right is Sports Minister Tracey Crouch

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Monday 4th June 2018
PostPosted: Mon 04 Jun, 2018 9:12 pm 
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@Peston
11m11 minutes ago
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One senior Tory told me there is a growing view “the government is resigned to losing the customs vote” on Tuesday week. But could @theresa_may really survive that? https://www.facebook.com/pestonitv/post ... 7416997326


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 Post subject: Re: Monday 4th June 2018
PostPosted: Mon 04 Jun, 2018 9:21 pm 
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Quote:
"By cancelling rail services in advance rather than arbitrarily on the day, customer satisfaction would be 100%, thought Chris"

- John Crace

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ome-trains


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 Post subject: Re: Monday 4th June 2018
PostPosted: Mon 04 Jun, 2018 9:25 pm 
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Quote:
“It’s completely unacceptable to have someone operationally in control and not taking responsibility,” Failing Grayling declared hysterically. At that moment, satire died.
oh god


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 Post subject: Re: Monday 4th June 2018
PostPosted: Mon 04 Jun, 2018 9:26 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
@Peston
11m11 minutes ago
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One senior Tory told me there is a growing view “the government is resigned to losing the customs vote” on Tuesday week. But could @theresa_may really survive that? https://www.facebook.com/pestonitv/post ... 7416997326


Oh, I expect she could somehow.......

(though this does also look rather like expectation management to me)


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 Post subject: Re: Monday 4th June 2018
PostPosted: Mon 04 Jun, 2018 9:29 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
@Peston
11m11 minutes ago
More
One senior Tory told me there is a growing view “the government is resigned to losing the customs vote” on Tuesday week. But could @theresa_may really survive that? https://www.facebook.com/pestonitv/post ... 7416997326


Oh, I expect she could somehow.......

(though this does also look rather like expectation management to me)

Peston was almost unable to speak with excitement on News at 10.

Is there a scenario where she kind of rolls over, shouts "saboteurs" and calls another snap election?


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 Post subject: Re: Monday 4th June 2018
PostPosted: Mon 04 Jun, 2018 9:32 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
@Peston
11m11 minutes ago
More
One senior Tory told me there is a growing view “the government is resigned to losing the customs vote” on Tuesday week. But could @theresa_may really survive that? https://www.facebook.com/pestonitv/post ... 7416997326


Oh, I expect she could somehow.......

(though this does also look rather like expectation management to me)

Peston was almost unable to speak with excitement on News at 10.

Is there a scenario where she kind of rolls over, shouts "saboteurs" and calls another snap election?


I think that is one way she *could* be ousted in short order. After what happened a year ago there are too many in the party who won't countenance that again.


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 Post subject: Re: Monday 4th June 2018
PostPosted: Mon 04 Jun, 2018 10:13 pm 
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Peston
Quote:
It has started. This from erstwhile May loyalist: “We can’t go on with TM for much longer. Her inability to show leadership or make a decision is creating a vacuum the remainers use to run riot in. Once the votes are over next week, she has to go!”


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 Post subject: Re: Monday 4th June 2018
PostPosted: Mon 04 Jun, 2018 10:16 pm 
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Yet again, I will believe it when I see it.


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 Post subject: Re: Monday 4th June 2018
PostPosted: Mon 04 Jun, 2018 10:31 pm 
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Goodnight, everyone
love,
cJA


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