Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 7:47 am
Morning 
Page 1 of 1
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 7:53 am
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 7:55 am
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 8:52 am
Morning all.
This goes in the "Gosh, well I never, who'd have thunk it? "category...
This goes in the "Gosh, well I never, who'd have thunk it? "category...
Martin George
Verified account
@geomr
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The academies programme has 'turned the clock back 30 years' in terms of school autonomy, LSE report warns
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 8:53 am
Succinct, personal, strangely moving and to the point.
http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2018 ... n-the-way/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2018 ... n-the-way/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 9:19 am
Did you read the de Souza puff-piece in the Graun yesterday? Bonkers.RogerOThornhill wrote:Morning all.
This goes in the "Gosh, well I never, who'd have thunk it? "category...
Martin George
Verified account
@geomr
Following
Following @geomr
More
The academies programme has 'turned the clock back 30 years' in terms of school autonomy, LSE report warns
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... rsy-ofsted" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 9:38 am
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -amendment" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
brexit-keir-starmer-says-labour-divided-norway-style-deal-amendment
Well said Mr Starmer. Open and honest about the situation.
brexit-keir-starmer-says-labour-divided-norway-style-deal-amendment
Well said Mr Starmer. Open and honest about the situation.
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 9:44 am
This is a good link from somebody btl on the daily pol at the grauniad
Freight’s hopes for a frictionless Brexit ‘collapsing’
Freight’s hopes for a frictionless Brexit ‘collapsing’
James Hookham, the organisation’s deputy chief executive, said “the lack of progress on the industry’s key demands of government for a trade agreement, means that those in the industry charged with maintaining the country's supply chain after Brexit are left with no means by which to operate effectively”.
He noted: “Of the eight demands made in FTA’s list of essentials to ‘Keep Britain Trading’ issued at the beginning of the year, not a single one has been progressed. Details of whether or not the country will have a Transition or Implementation Period are still unclear; there is still no decision on what Customs arrangements we will have from March 2019 onwards.
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 9:48 am
Starmer said Brussels had indicated to him that if the UK cleared away some of its red lines on issues such as the European court of justice, it could open the door to a different tone of negotiations.
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 10:00 am
The issue behind this, I think, is that it really should open the door to a second referendum at some point. If the question becomes not 'Leave or remain' but 'leave as a rule taker without a say but with a deal or remain' you could have a straight vote with, perhaps, a requirement on turnout and on beating the percentage of the 'leave' vote last time (although what then happens if you don't do that is a catastrophe, but I'm in favour of tougher success criteria in referenda generally so it would be hypocritical to reject it now). I'm very hestitant to go down the road of 'nobody voted for x, y or z' but I think it's a reasonable generalisation to imagine that very few people voted to have no say in EU rules but to still be bound by them - that outcome genuinely opens the door to a second vote.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Starmer said Brussels had indicated to him that if the UK cleared away some of its red lines on issues such as the European court of justice, it could open the door to a different tone of negotiations.
Or you could end up with 'leave as a rule taker without a say but with a deal, or leave without a deal, or remain' then how do you devise a voting system that lets that be considered in a fair and reasonable way? A two stage process with the third place being knocked out after the first round (which you imagine would be one of the 'leave' options that would split the vote)? A mess?
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 10:03 am
Also from btl at the guardian
In the meantime, the Dutch government has been warning its manufacturing sector that UK components & materials will not count towards a product being made in the EU after March, as the UK will have third country status. It is advising that manufacturers check their supply chain, and if necessary change suppliers so that goods "made in the EU" do not breach the free trade export agreements the EU has with Korea and other nations outside of the EU.
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 10:37 am
European businesses advised to avoid using British parts ahead of Brexit
https://news.sky.com/story/european-bus ... t-11395908" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://news.sky.com/story/european-bus ... t-11395908" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 11:30 am
The opening comment from "Toby Carvery"PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Succinct, personal, strangely moving and to the point.
http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2018 ... n-the-way/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(well at least its an appropriate GAMMONY username I suppose)
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 11:35 am
Gammony indeed!AnatolyKasparov wrote:The opening comment from "Toby Carvery"PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Succinct, personal, strangely moving and to the point.
http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2018 ... n-the-way/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(well at least its an appropriate GAMMONY username I suppose)
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 11:43 am
Which, as they say, can cover a multitude of sins......adam wrote:The issue behind this, I think, is that it really should open the door to a second referendum at some pointPaulfromYorkshire wrote:Starmer said Brussels had indicated to him that if the UK cleared away some of its red lines on issues such as the European court of justice, it could open the door to a different tone of negotiations.
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 12:57 pm
A second referendum, with one side (or the other) 'winning' by 50% of the turnout, plus ONE vote ?
I have never had an answer to that question
I have never had an answer to that question
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 1:28 pm
Absolute demolition job by Corbyn on May today in PMQs
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 1:55 pm
But, but he's a useless leader with a hopeless Brexit policy.....AnatolyKasparov wrote:Absolute demolition job by Corbyn on May today in PMQs
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 1:57 pm
Remember just a few months ago, when May "won" PMQs by telling a brazen lie?? Ah, those were the days eh?
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 2:03 pm
It's a nghtmare whatever happens, second ref is least worst option? I think we've had this already but ICYMI.frog222 wrote:A second referendum, with one side (or the other) 'winning' by 50% of the turnout, plus ONE vote ?
I have never had an answer to that question
http://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/2018/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Personally I can't see how a second ref can be called without Parliament first coming round to remain - if that happened, then the ref might be needed to give the decision legitimacy.With bitterness and anger now hard-baked into British politics, a further campaign would undoubtedly unleash still more of it. It would be a horrible experience to go through. But it can’t be emphasised strongly enough that we face a situation in which there are no good options left any more.
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 2:04 pm
Not as hopeless as the govt's.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:But, but he's a useless leader with a hopeless Brexit policy.....AnatolyKasparov wrote:Absolute demolition job by Corbyn on May today in PMQs
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 3:16 pm
Laura K
Sources indicate backstop paper which sets out what is the TCA (thank heavens it's that not CRAP, it is the Temporary Customs Arrangement) will still be published tomorrow. No 10 sources adamant all the document is what ministers already agreed in black and white - that's not the view of everyone in govt - feels like next 24 hours could be v important in terms of whether eurosceptic ministers fall in behind the proposal or not.
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 4:20 pm
https://www.parliament.uk/business/comm ... hed-17-19/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Committee publishes Special Report to the House on Dominic Cummings’s refusal to appear
Committee publishes Special Report to the House on Dominic Cummings’s refusal to appear
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 4:35 pm
https://www.parliament.uk/business/publ ... ember=4071" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Extending PIP assessment contracts a further two years.Apparently fucking up peoples' lives',causing chaos,uncertainty at vast expense is a more fairer way of doing things.
Extending PIP assessment contracts a further two years.Apparently fucking up peoples' lives',causing chaos,uncertainty at vast expense is a more fairer way of doing things.
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 4:37 pm
On the plus side there has been improvements to a thoroughly needless introduction.
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 4:40 pm
Safe to say the original intention of extending to all DLA (not just working age)has been abandoned.
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 4:43 pm
The breaking of evidentially introduced automatic links to other support was pure misanthropy.
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 4:45 pm
They piss away money to fight against what they usually eventually concede on.Misanthropy and false economic pillockery often go together.
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 4:51 pm
Some excitement about "rebel" Tory MPs putting forward a pro-EEA amendment next week.
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 5:03 pm
Robert Peston
3 hrs ·
Facebook
I've been asking MPs of a certain age and endowed with parliamentary memory whether they can think of any precedent for what will happen on Tuesday - namely a government asking MPs to reject serious proposals that would shape the economy and governance of the UK for generations to come, without actually being able to offer those MPs a detailed alternative plan.
Perhaps it may surprise you that everyone I've approached has said that Theresa May is attempting something in the House of Commons without proper precedent - and most of them argue, even a few ardent Brexiters, that what she is doing is wrong,
It is seen as degrading the status of MPs to ask them - as she is - to vote against their consciences, which tell many of them that the UK should stay in the customs union, that it is paramount the Ireland border should remain open and that MPs should be able to force the PM back to the negotiating table if they don't like final Brexit terms, without explaining what her alternative and cunning plan may be. That is why the resolve of rebel Tory MPs to defy her whip and will is being reinforced. And there is a serius risk for her that the usual dozen of ultra-Remainy Conservative troublemakers will be joined by colleagues normally seen as May loyalists - but whose patience is being sorely tested by the conspicuous absence of a Brexit trade policy worth the name.
That patience was challenged again by the PM a few minutes ago in answering Corbyn at PMQs, when she refused even to give guidance on when a Brexit white paper - designed to set out the government's negotiating position - will be published. But if Tuesday's votes are in and of themselves taking us into uncharted territory, the aftermath will almost certainly do that too. Because if May loses the votes she will do her utmost to ignore them. And in the case of the customs vote, that would be theoretically possible for her, since its status is largely symbolic. But if she is defeated, there could no longer be any doubt that the will of parliament is for the UK to stay in a customs union.
So with confidence in politicians and our polity so fragile, the PM would presumably think twice before treating Parliament as a tinpot talking shop whose views are contemptible. But how she avoids doing that, without simultaneously conceding that the kernel of her Brexit strategy is bankrupt, would take some doing?
Brexit was supposed to be about taking back control. Right now, either Parliament or the PM and her executive are in danger of being castrated.
3 hrs ·
I've been asking MPs of a certain age and endowed with parliamentary memory whether they can think of any precedent for what will happen on Tuesday - namely a government asking MPs to reject serious proposals that would shape the economy and governance of the UK for generations to come, without actually being able to offer those MPs a detailed alternative plan.
Perhaps it may surprise you that everyone I've approached has said that Theresa May is attempting something in the House of Commons without proper precedent - and most of them argue, even a few ardent Brexiters, that what she is doing is wrong,
It is seen as degrading the status of MPs to ask them - as she is - to vote against their consciences, which tell many of them that the UK should stay in the customs union, that it is paramount the Ireland border should remain open and that MPs should be able to force the PM back to the negotiating table if they don't like final Brexit terms, without explaining what her alternative and cunning plan may be. That is why the resolve of rebel Tory MPs to defy her whip and will is being reinforced. And there is a serius risk for her that the usual dozen of ultra-Remainy Conservative troublemakers will be joined by colleagues normally seen as May loyalists - but whose patience is being sorely tested by the conspicuous absence of a Brexit trade policy worth the name.
That patience was challenged again by the PM a few minutes ago in answering Corbyn at PMQs, when she refused even to give guidance on when a Brexit white paper - designed to set out the government's negotiating position - will be published. But if Tuesday's votes are in and of themselves taking us into uncharted territory, the aftermath will almost certainly do that too. Because if May loses the votes she will do her utmost to ignore them. And in the case of the customs vote, that would be theoretically possible for her, since its status is largely symbolic. But if she is defeated, there could no longer be any doubt that the will of parliament is for the UK to stay in a customs union.
So with confidence in politicians and our polity so fragile, the PM would presumably think twice before treating Parliament as a tinpot talking shop whose views are contemptible. But how she avoids doing that, without simultaneously conceding that the kernel of her Brexit strategy is bankrupt, would take some doing?
Brexit was supposed to be about taking back control. Right now, either Parliament or the PM and her executive are in danger of being castrated.
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 6:46 pm
Leadership for a few see life as a game - winners and losersHindleA wrote:They piss away money to fight against what they usually eventually concede on.Misanthropy and false economic pillockery often go together.
they need others' suffering
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 6:51 pm
Good-evening, everyone
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 6:53 pm
TMay made one good point at PMQ's .
Labour voted for the ****ing referendum !
Which is at the origin of our travails ...
( Mine too, although I've been away 41years. I had no vote on something that 'could' affect me directly . Wonder what the ECJ would say to that ? )
Labour voted for the ****ing referendum !
Which is at the origin of our travails ...
( Mine too, although I've been away 41years. I had no vote on something that 'could' affect me directly . Wonder what the ECJ would say to that ? )
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 7:09 pm
Have we seen this?
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" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 7:12 pm
Steven Swinford
@Steven_Swinford
David Davis was due to present the Irish Backstop tomorrow morning. He's refused. It's now expected to be fronted by Karen Bradley instead. EVERYTHING IS GOING SWIMMINGLY
@Steven_Swinford
David Davis was due to present the Irish Backstop tomorrow morning. He's refused. It's now expected to be fronted by Karen Bradley instead. EVERYTHING IS GOING SWIMMINGLY
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 7:15 pm
Ed Miliband consistently held the line against it during his leadership.frog222 wrote:TMay made one good point at PMQ's .
Labour voted for the ****ing referendum !
Which is at the origin of our travails ...
( Mine too, although I've been away 41years. I had no vote on something that 'could' affect me directly . Wonder what the ECJ would say to that ? )
Once that inconvenience had been disposed of, one of Harman's first actions in her remarkably maladroit second spell as interim leader was to state Labour supported one.
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 7:22 pm
It seems everything boils down to this "backstop".
May knows that the EU won't accept an end date on it, because it could lead to a hard border by default.
Davis won't agree to the indefinite backstop because he thinks it will lead to the UK staying in the EU by default when nobody can find an Irish Border solution.
They are both right I guess, which is the problem. As we said all along.
May knows that the EU won't accept an end date on it, because it could lead to a hard border by default.
Davis won't agree to the indefinite backstop because he thinks it will lead to the UK staying in the EU by default when nobody can find an Irish Border solution.
They are both right I guess, which is the problem. As we said all along.
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 7:27 pm
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/06/w ... gainst-it/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
will-david-davis-resign-tomorrow-i-would-not-bet-against-it
will-david-davis-resign-tomorrow-i-would-not-bet-against-it
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 9:06 pm
Dacre is retiring
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 9:23 pm
Goodnight, everyone
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 9:25 pm
May to give NHS 'significant' cash boost, Jeremy Hunt reveals
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... nt-reveals" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... nt-reveals" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Why do I feel I should be counting the spoons?She is unbelievably committed. You should not underestimate how committed she is to the NHS. So she is absolutely 100% behind getting this right,” Hunt said.
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 10:10 pm
And all this time I'd never suspected you were actually Paul Dacre.citizenJA wrote:Goodnight, everyone
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 10:29 pm
Crace -- https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... indecision" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 10:39 pm
Ouch, ouch, ouch.frog222 wrote:Crace -- https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... indecision" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Scathing doesn't start to describe this piece
Re: Wednesday 6th June 2018
Posted: Wed 06 Jun, 2018 10:47 pm
I just reread it - it's still great.
May’s eyes rotated in opposite directions and her mouth opened and shut as if gasping for breath while struggling for words. “I agree that we want to publish a white paper,” she croaked eventually. The snag was that no one in the cabinet could agree on what should go in it. Or when it should be published. The white paper remained defiantly white.