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 Post subject: Thursday 7th June 2018
PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 6:34 am 
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Morning.

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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 6:37 am 
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https://mobile.twitter.com/faisalislam/ ... 5124786176

Quote:
Faisal Islam
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PM in quite a pickle here.
Brexiter MPs glum about "endless backstop" being a backdoor sellout. Davis also unhappy unless time-limited.

But Backstop with time limit "is not a backstop" says Irish & EU.

More important: backstop "immensely important" for Tory Remainer rebels.
10:54 pm · 6 Jun 2018


So if May backs away from her permanent backstop proposal she will face losing on the withdrawal bill next week and potentially losing her withdrawal agreement with EU.

If she pushes ahead with it, David Davis has said he will resign.

How is this a difficult decision?

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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 7:28 am 
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Morning folks,
As soon as May announced the go ahead for Heathrow3, I thought it would present an ideal opportunity for the lying charlatan we have for a foreign secretary. He can resign from the Cabinet and present it as a principled move, get out of having formal responsibility for Brexit progress and launch his campaign from the sidelines.


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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 7:37 am 
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Imagine for a moment that we are completing a trade deal with another country, doesn't matter who, based on food supplies. We're happy to do the deal, but we want to ensure that the other country maintains the standards we expect in production, animal welfare and the uses of pesticides and so on, and we want a guarantee of inspections and verification that these standards are being met. 'Of course' say the other country, 'but only for the first year of the deal'.

This is what we seem to be asking for. Even amongst the massively wideranging clusterfuck that all of this is, it is absurdly, outrageously preposterous.

You could add that given the government are so certain that a deal will be done that will resolve the question anyway then it doesn't matter what is offered as a backstop because it will never be needed.

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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 7:50 am 
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Morning all. We have a new kitchen. All we need to do now is put everything back again...

Quote:
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13 hours ago


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John Bull Retweeted Fraser Nelson
David Davis will resign only if he can also keep all the benefits of staying in the cabinet.

David Davis awaits the cabinet's offer of terms for his resignation, which he expects to be reasonable.

David Davis means David Davis.


:D

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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 7:56 am 
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Where's the cat?

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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 8:25 am 
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HindleA wrote:
Where's the cat?


Come out of hiding - we think the fuss and strangers pout her off her food yesterday. Seems to be back to normal now though.

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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 8:57 am 
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Beth Rigby
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David Davis and Theresa May’s meeting wrapped up. His people gathering at No 9. Source tells me that if she won’t budge doesn’t see how he can stay. Adds May might find a fudge...


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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 9:28 am 
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I don't speak foreign but a quick look around the homepages of the big european newspaper websites suggests that none of them care about what's going on here in any way at all.

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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 9:35 am 
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They might care once they know what it is they're to care about.

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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 10:14 am 
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One v senior MP furious tells me ‘the problem is No 10 is just not good enough - they make the wrong decision every time’

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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 11:19 am 
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Bizarre. But then again, given how this came from, it's actually prefectly normal.


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David Davis is ex SAS He’s trained to survive. He’s also trained to take people out. #Brexit

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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 11:26 am 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Beth Rigby
@BethRigby
54s54 seconds ago
David Davis and Theresa May’s meeting wrapped up. His people gathering at No 9. Source tells me that if she won’t budge doesn’t see how he can stay. Adds May might find a fudge...


Well, as I write this he is still in post........


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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 11:48 am 
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It would be nice to think whether Davis went or stayed was down to the PM, not a backbench lobby group.
Will he or won't he resign really should be will he or won't he be sacked.

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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 12:00 pm 
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https://mobile.twitter.com/lewis_goodal ... itics-live
Quote:
Lewis Goodall
@lewis_goodall
Hearing interesting twist from govt source as to why Davis is so angry. Source says no.10/cabinet office tried to bypass Brexit subcommittee on backstop customs paper.They wanted to send to Brussels as a negotiating position on grounds it’s what the EU would accept.Davis said no.
12:51 pm · 7 Jun 2018


So presumably, if Davis has got his way, we are now sending to Brussels a negotiating position we know the EU won't accept?

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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 12:14 pm 
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So the plan for the Brexit backstop has finally been published.

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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 12:33 pm 
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And it seems May won and Davis' threat to resign pure bluster. New date added purely an ambition.

And even after all that, it may not be enough for the EU anyway.

Happy days.

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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 12:49 pm 
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Good-afternoon, everyone

How goes the world today? I've been cleaning the flat and haven't looked at the news.


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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 12:50 pm 
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Probably won't be acceptable to the EU anyway, if this analysis from Andrew Sparrow is anything to go on:

Quote:
The government document does not say how the time limit would operate - which really means who gets to decide when it ends. There are “a range of options”, it says, and this is a matter the government says it wants to discuss with the EU. But this issue is crucial. Brexiters want to have the UK to have the power to bring the backstop to an end unilaterally, so the government can then enjoy the full benefits of future trade deals. But the EU does not want to agree a backstop that could end without a solution to the Irish border issue. On this issue, the document does not so much fudge the problem as ignore it altogether.


So a big hooha and fuss over whose plan gets to be rejected by the EU, basically.

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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 12:51 pm 
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citizenJA wrote:
Good-afternoon, everyone

How goes the world today? I've been cleaning the flat and haven't looked at the news.


Then you've missed David Davis not resigning - ie nothing!

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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 12:58 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
Good-afternoon, everyone

How goes the world today? I've been cleaning the flat and haven't looked at the news.


Then you've missed David Davis not resigning - ie nothing!

The vacuuming still needs doing.


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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 1:03 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
Quote:
Brexiters want to have the UK to have the power to bring the backstop to an end unilaterally, so the government can then enjoy the full benefits of future trade deals.




'the government can then enjoy the full benefits of future trade deals'

Should Sparrow really be writing this crap?

Even if you accept that there will be benefits from future trade deals, shouldn't it be the country that's enjoying them? We all know the tory govt will benefit whatever happens.

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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 1:05 pm 
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He should certainly have inserted "they say" or similar there, yes.


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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 1:07 pm 
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Faisal Islam

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DEXEU draft has basically just altered the EU’s legal text for the backstop like this - changing article 4.2:
“The territory of the United Kingdom shall be considered part of the customs territory of the Union”

Instead of the original wording “Northern Ireland”...


https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/ ... 8370896896

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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 1:13 pm 
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citizenJA wrote:
Good-afternoon, everyone

How goes the world today? I've been cleaning the flat and haven't looked at the news.


Well, we've managed to put everything away in our new kitchen!


(OK, well almost everything)

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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 1:33 pm 
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gilsey wrote:
Faisal Islam

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DEXEU draft has basically just altered the EU’s legal text for the backstop like this - changing article 4.2:
“The territory of the United Kingdom shall be considered part of the customs territory of the Union”

Instead of the original wording “Northern Ireland”...


https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/ ... 8370896896


That would be for the DUP, I suppose.

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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 1:36 pm 
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Its the fifth, or perhaps sixth, non-resignation from DD now (according to somebody who has actually been counting)


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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 1:37 pm 
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Quote:
This is from Stewart Jackson, David Davis’s chief of staff.


Stewart Jackson @BrexitStewart

Helpful dialogue. The #backstop paper has been clarified and amended and now expresses, in much more detail, the time limited nature of our proposal - something the PM and DD have always been committed to #Brexit
2:23 PM - Jun 7, 2018 (Politics Live, Guardian)


Glad he's pointed that out as, inexplicably, it had completely passed me by.


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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 1:44 pm 
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RogerOThornhill wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
Good-afternoon, everyone

How goes the world today? I've been cleaning the flat and haven't looked at the news.


Well, we've managed to put everything away in our new kitchen!


(OK, well almost everything)


You'll never find it all again. It'll be like when somebody else has done the drying up and putting away for you.

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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 1:50 pm 
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I'm going to vacuum now
I'll catch up later


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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 2:01 pm 
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It's laughable
Quote:
“The UK is clear that the temporary customs arrangement, should it be needed, should be time limited,” the document, which was also sent to Brussels, said.

“The UK expects the future arrangement to be in place by the end of December 2021 at the latest. There are a range of options for how a time limit could be delivered, which the UK will propose and discuss with the EU.”


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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 2:08 pm 
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I think if I hear the phrase "there are a range of options" from this Government one more time....


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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 2:44 pm 
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Quote:
Verhofstadt suggests UK's Brexit backstop plan not a 'workable solution'

Guy Verhofstadt, the European parliament’s lead spokesman on Brexit, has now posted a tweet about the UK’s Brexit backstop plan. He is raising the same concerns as Michel Barnier (see 2.02pm) and the Irish government (see 3.28pm), but he is more blunt that Barnier, implying that what was published today is not a “workable solution”. (Politics Live, Guardian)


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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 3:00 pm 
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If only we had an expert lawyer here to explain what the problems are with the Government's proposal..... ;-)


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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 3:05 pm 
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But seeing as we don't have one to my knowledge, I'll have a go.

“The UK is clear that the temporary customs arrangement, should it be needed, should be time limited.”

“The UK expects the future arrangement to be in place by the end of December 2021 at the latest.”

And that's not going near the "range of options" bit :roll:


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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 3:12 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
Quote:
This is from Stewart Jackson, David Davis’s chief of staff.


Stewart Jackson @BrexitStewart

Helpful dialogue. The #backstop paper has been clarified and amended and now expresses, in much more detail, the time limited nature of our proposal - something the PM and DD have always been committed to #Brexit
2:23 PM - Jun 7, 2018 (Politics Live, Guardian)


Glad he's pointed that out as, inexplicably, it had completely passed me by.


Ye gods, one might have thought even DD might have managed better than him. Does he still have that ridiculous combover?


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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 3:43 pm 
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http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analy ... ut-welfare

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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 3:51 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2018/06/07/punishment-beatings-by-public-demand-the-truth-about-welfare


Not much to argue with there.


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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 3:57 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
If only we had an expert lawyer here to explain what the problems are with the Government's proposal..... ;-)




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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 4:05 pm 
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I had a feeling that someone, at some point, would be gunning for the London Fire Brigade re Grenfell. (Sky TV news)

Surely the Fire Brigade was only acting on the (false) information that they had on the building's specifications?


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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 4:22 pm 
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@PF your reply to me

:lol:


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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 6:01 pm 
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A very sad by-election tonight in Devon to replace 21 year old Clarissa Slade (CON), who was found dead in her University room while awaiting results relating to a heart condition.

Two other Tory defences. At a quick glance the one in Oxford is the most likely upset.


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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 6:10 pm 
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Hopefully the round-up will be out a bit quicker this time ;)


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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 7:01 pm 
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https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/ ... rdie-greig
New Daily Mail editor to be Geordie Greig
Pro-remain editor of Mail on Sunday to replace Paul Dacre at top of Brexit-supporting paper

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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 7:04 pm 
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Love this- https://twitter.com/alikervin/status/10 ... 3367507969


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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 7:10 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
I had a feeling that someone, at some point, would be gunning for the London Fire Brigade re Grenfell. (Sky TV news)

Surely the Fire Brigade was only acting on the (false) information that they had on the building's specifications?


(the London Fire Brigade) questioned whether it in the public interest for it to plan to fight fires in buildings such as Grenfell Tower based on the assumption that their design is unsafe. In a statement to the inquiry, it asked whether it should “develop new high rise fire and rescue policy and capabilities, and receive the appropriate associated funding, on the express assumption that buildings [are] … constructed so as to render them inherently unsafe in the event of a fire?”

From the G blog, Tuesday.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/liv ... navigation

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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2018 7:48 pm 
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Kev R


@kwr66
20m20 minutes ago
More
On NI

“It’s so small and there are so few firms that actually use that border regularly, it’s just beyond belief that we’re allowing the tail to wag the dog in this way. We’re allowing the whole of our agenda to be dictated by this folly.”

A wee border.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexspence/bor ... .iio6vya1a

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PostPosted: Fri 08 Jun, 2018 12:08 am 
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gilsey wrote:
Kev R


@kwr66
20m20 minutes ago
More
On NI

“It’s so small and there are so few firms that actually use that border regularly, it’s just beyond belief that we’re allowing the tail to wag the dog in this way. We’re allowing the whole of our agenda to be dictated by this folly.”

A wee border.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexspence/bor ... .iio6vya1a

Full of usual jolly Bojo bollocks*, eg:
Quote:
The “prophecies of doom” about disruption of customs are “pure millennium bug stuff,” Johnson said, referring to the hysteria about Y2K at the turn of the millenium.
“All the planes crashing from the sky. It’s absolute nonsense.”
Johnson dismisses concerns over customs disruption as "pure millennium bug stuff".

Figures vary, but worldwide cost of dealing with 'millennium bug stuff' was approx. 400 Billion dollars.
edit: *Bojollocks Nouveau est arrive.


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