FlyTheNest

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:@tinybgoat

This is a tricky one!

Reading about the Brexit dividend on Twitter, I realise it's really important that we highlight that the problems with the NHS and the feeble economy originate with the Coalition. It was the Coalition that got us into this mess and painted the backdrop on which a Leave vote became possible.

IMHO, arguments that there is no Brexit dividend, while largely spot on, are fraught with difficulty!

tinybgoat wrote:

"Some people may remember seeing a figure on the side of a bus a while back of £350m a week in cash," she said.

"I can tell you that what I'm announcing will mean that in 2023-24 there will be about £600m a week, more in cash, going into the NHS.

"That will be through the Brexit dividend. The fact that we're no longer sending vast amounts of money every year to the EU once we leave the EU."

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Thanks Frog that's quite stark isn't it?

Willow904 wrote:The NHS money feels like a bribe.

It feels like an attempt to make the idiocy of Brexit seem like it has a purpose. It feels like an attempt to protect Tory ministers that supported the leave campaign from being accused of misleading the country. It feels like an attempt to counter the anti-Brexit feeling that is going to grow on the back of revelations of Leave.eu apparently colluding with Russians and Vote Leave breaking election spending rules.

FWIW one percentage point on VAT (the Tories favourite tax) is worth about £5bn. So a rise to 22.5% (as has been speculated in the past) won't be enough on its own.

Which, of course, wouldn't be necessary anyway if we hadn't cut corporation tax, which must be costing us at least £10bn a year by now.

Holger Hestermeyer
‏

@hhesterm
2h2 hours ago
More Holger Hestermeyer Retweeted Nick Clegg
What Nick Clegg gets wrong: there has NEVER been unlimited freedom of movement. The principle is untouchable and can remain untouchable, the details could, can and will be fiddled with. Rather than attack the principle it is time to realise that the details offer a solution.

Willow904 wrote: Which, of course, wouldn't be necessary anyway if we hadn't cut corporation tax, which must be costing us at least £10bn a year by now.

frog222 wrote:Good one from Cohen on the BBC and other relevant institutions, and the Tories, but he goes completely off-beam crazy on the LP, as usual !

Much easier to talk about the ‘Brexit Dividend’, which is in fact a recently described subspecies of the Magic Money Tree.

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:@Willow

Yes I've worried about that too. There is a feeling of "keeping the lid on" isn't there?

On the other hand, TBF, Corbyn does focus relentlessly on policy rather than process, so maybe his instincts are just to avoid this kind of stuff. He's right in a way. It should be the media's job to get to the bottom of this. And I mean more than just Carole Cadwalladr!

Willow904 wrote:

frog222 wrote:Good one from Cohen on the BBC and other relevant institutions, and the Tories, but he goes completely off-beam crazy on the LP, as usual !

And yet the Labour front bench has been extremely quiet on the Cambridge Analytica allegations (Corbyn's only memorable comment being that he intended to continue using Facebook) and then there's the fact that Labour Leave, and more specifically Kate Hoey, seem surprisingly intertwined with Leave.EU with even a suggestion that Banks somehow acquired and used Labour data for targeted leave campaigns on social media.

Even so I'm uncertain why the Labour front bench is so reticent to ask questions about recent revelations. Damian Collins, chair of the DCMS committee, has been pretty thorough and tenacious over investigating these allegations, despite them making uncomfortable reading for some members of his own party. He has raised a lot of issues and concerns through the evidence that has been presented to Parliament, yet still no real concern or sense of urgency to get at the truth appears to be coming from official Labour channels. I don't know why that would be, but it's disappointing. We have rules surrounding elections and campaigns. When they are broken this must be addressed, not brushed under the carpet.

This is particularly true given the overlap with the US investigation into Trump. The true story surrounding Farage, Banks and the leave campaigns is likely to come out eventually at which point many people will wonder why our political leaders didn't show more interest at the time. Indeed, it seems Oakeshott was sitting on her e-mails waiting for us to leave the EU before using them in a book, which creates an unsettling sense of conspiracy among the political classes and the media to just keep a lid on everything until we're safely over the line and out of the EU.

Willow904 wrote:

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:@Willow

Yes I've worried about that too. There is a feeling of "keeping the lid on" isn't there?

On the other hand, TBF, Corbyn does focus relentlessly on policy rather than process, so maybe his instincts are just to avoid this kind of stuff. He's right in a way. It should be the media's job to get to the bottom of this. And I mean more than just Carole Cadwalladr!

I think the media has gone as far as it can. Labour may be waiting for the Electoral Commission findings, but Parliament will need to apply pressure if those findings are to be properly followed up, including anything passed onto police. So we'll wait and see.

frog222 wrote:

Willow904 wrote:The NHS money feels like a bribe.

It feels like an attempt to make the idiocy of Brexit seem like it has a purpose. It feels like an attempt to protect Tory ministers that supported the leave campaign from being accused of misleading the country. It feels like an attempt to counter the anti-Brexit feeling that is going to grow on the back of revelations of Leave.eu apparently colluding with Russians and Vote Leave breaking election spending rules.

FWIW one percentage point on VAT (the Tories favourite tax) is worth about £5bn. So a rise to 22.5% (as has been speculated in the past) won't be enough on its own.

Which, of course, wouldn't be necessary anyway if we hadn't cut corporation tax, which must be costing us at least £10bn a year by now.

As Gilsey said 9.18 "" She has no more shame than Gove or Johnson. Disgrace.""

She's learning how to do Fake News, Trump-style

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:@Willow

Yes I've worried about that too. There is a feeling of "keeping the lid on" isn't there?
---

frog222 wrote:

Willow904 wrote:

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:@Willow

Yes I've worried about that too. There is a feeling of "keeping the lid on" isn't there?

On the other hand, TBF, Corbyn does focus relentlessly on policy rather than process, so maybe his instincts are just to avoid this kind of stuff. He's right in a way. It should be the media's job to get to the bottom of this. And I mean more than just Carole Cadwalladr!

I think the media has gone as far as it can. Labour may be waiting for the Electoral Commission findings, but Parliament will need to apply pressure if those findings are to be properly followed up, including anything passed onto police. So we'll wait and see.

Answer, perhaps, in 2023 ?

The Electoral Commission is a 90 something percent waste of space .

I am afraid the reality is the government now seems to have divided into contradicting power bases that cannot deliver collectively on assurances given to backbenchers when they seek them. This is not a good place to be, as it erodes trust. We have collectively to face up to the fact that in the two main political parties there are substantial disagreements on the best form Brexit should take.

- The government has split into contradicting power bases on Brexit
Dominic Grieve

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ower-bases" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA wrote:

I am afraid the reality is the government now seems to have divided into contradicting power bases that cannot deliver collectively on assurances given to backbenchers when they seek them. This is not a good place to be, as it erodes trust. We have collectively to face up to the fact that in the two main political parties there are substantial disagreements on the best form Brexit should take.

- The government has split into contradicting power bases on Brexit
Dominic Grieve

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ower-bases" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Somebody remind the author and Tory MP for Beaconsfield he is part of Tory government

That is the real dividend not only of Brexit but decisions taken since the financial crisis: an economy that is likely too weak to bear significant tax rises anywhere , a Parliament that is unlikely to pass any tax rises, and an ideological aversion to higher borrowing that makes it difficult to fund spending through that route. Theresa May can promise more money for the NHS, but Philip Hammond may find it impossible to actually deliver it at his budget in the autumn.

hilip Hammond has signalled he is prepared to spend billions of pounds on hospitals and the military later this year after positive public finance figures pointed to “light at the end of the tunnel” following a decade of austerity.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... sprinklers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Glasgow School of Art: sprinklers had not been fitted after first fire

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... emy-corbyn" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The National Campaign Against Fees and Cuts (NCAFC) said it would join anti-Brexit demonstrations the National Union of Students (NUS) is organising this summer and autumn, and establish a “radical, leftwing, pro-migrant bloc”. The move is another sign of young people increasingly mobilising against the UK’s scheduled departure from the EU in March next year.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 03096.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

a child knocked over a valuable sculpture in a community centre

RogerOThornhill wrote:And about bloody time too...not that I ever watch it. I might though depending on who gets the gig.

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Leading internal candidates include the Newsnight presenters Emily Maitlis and Kirsty Wark, the Today programme hosts Nick Robinson and Mishal Husain, and Desert Island Discs’ Kirsty Young.

The BBC could choose to go for a more leftfield choice such as Victoria Derbyshire, whose morning news show has won a series of awards, or the 5Live presenter Emma Barnett, who received plaudits after standing in for Andrew Marr on his Sunday programme earlier this year.

PorFavor wrote:Someone on the Twitter thread suggested (jokingly, I trust) Nigel Farage!