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 Post subject: Tuesday 19th June 2018
PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 6:39 am 
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Good....

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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 7:17 am 
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Ni hao


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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 7:18 am 
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Only joking I'm in Leeds

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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 8:43 am 
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https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/je ... 1.html?amp
"An easy step-by-step guide for Jeremy Corbyn to become prime minister by Christmas"
Quote:
Labour is so conditioned to opposition and protest that it cannot see that the Conservative Party is limping around like a wounded gazelle, inviting predation

Writer's reasoning seems a bit flawed? Ignores whether following a non-confidence vote Tories could put forward an alternative gvt.
- or reluctance of Tory Rebels (more dalliance than alliance) to risk Labour gvt.


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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 8:46 am 
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Quote:
Grieve said that, when he used the phrase “we could collapse the government” in an interview at the weekend, he was talking about what might happen if the final Brexit withdrawal agreement were rejected. He said the whole point of his “meaningful vote” amendment was to stop that happening.


If rejecting the withdrawal agreement were to cause a constitutional crisis, this makes it very hard for MPs to say no, however bad the withdrawal agreement is. Only a mechanism within the withdrawal bill that avoids such a crisis can make any vote 'meaningful' in the sense that saying no is a realistic option that won't plunge the country into turmoil. This is what Keir Starmer means by a 'meaningful vote' and Grieve seems to agree with him and is doing his best to get one. This is a good thing and a defeat for the wilder element of the Eurosceptic right as it will make it harder for May to push through a withdrawal agreement that doesn't meet the approval of the majority of the Commons.

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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 9:07 am 
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Morning all.

Well, this is a lot of fun...and a lot of truth in there too about think-tanks...

https://twitter.com/PeteNorth303/status ... 3081949198

Thinking about who is pushing Brexit I'm reminded of Baldwin's "A lot of hard-faced men who look as if they had done very well out of the war" about the new MPs in 1918.

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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 9:07 am 
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Barnier making it clear this morning that leave means leave -some twitter quotes pinched from the daily pol in the graun.

Quote:
.@MichelBarnier “The #UK has decided to leave the EU...It will be a third country outside Schengen and outside the EU’s legal order. This is a fact. Facts have consequences.”

Quietly, Michel Barnier is shooting down virtually every UK demand on crime co-operation post-Brexit. He's just said that because of UK red line on ECJ he sees it as impossible that we can remain part of the European Arrest Warrant.

This language may not go down well. @MichelBarnier says will need "a common commitment to human rights & confidence that the other party will respect them." A little extraordinary.Let's be clear: we're talking about the UK here. Confirms EU demands UK commit to stay inside ECHR.

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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 9:26 am 
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This is a bit off topic and some may have seen it already elsewhere, but it's a good read.
https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us ... ngs-to-say

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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 9:35 am 
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RogerOThornhill wrote:
Morning all.

Well, this is a lot of fun...and a lot of truth in there too about think-tanks...

https://twitter.com/PeteNorth303/status ... 3081949198

Thinking about who is pushing Brexit I'm reminded of Baldwin's "A lot of hard-faced men who look as if they had done very well out of the war" about the new MPs in 1918.

Sometimes he talks good sense and others he's off-the-wall bonkers, probably down to how much ale he's taken.
So-called 'sensible' Leavers are just as culpable for getting us into this mess as the ERG nutters imo.
If they're so clever how come they didn't foresee their beloved project being highjacked?

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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 9:38 am 
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tinybgoat wrote:
- or reluctance of Tory Rebels (more dalliance than alliance) to risk Labour gvt.

Reluctance is a bit of an understatement, they talk about it as if it's Armageddon. OMG Corbyn.

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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 9:45 am 
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https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... pay-assets

academy-schools-collapse-executive-pay-assets


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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 9:59 am 
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Willow904 wrote:
Quote:
Grieve said that, when he used the phrase “we could collapse the government” in an interview at the weekend, he was talking about what might happen if the final Brexit withdrawal agreement were rejected. He said the whole point of his “meaningful vote” amendment was to stop that happening.


If rejecting the withdrawal agreement were to cause a constitutional crisis, this makes it very hard for MPs to say no, however bad the withdrawal agreement is. Only a mechanism within the withdrawal bill that avoids such a crisis can make any vote 'meaningful' in the sense that saying no is a realistic option that won't plunge the country into turmoil. This is what Keir Starmer means by a 'meaningful vote' and Grieve seems to agree with him and is doing his best to get one. This is a good thing and a defeat for the wilder element of the Eurosceptic right as it will make it harder for May to push through a withdrawal agreement that doesn't meet the approval of the majority of the Commons.


And apparently this latest Grieve amendment is the only one that the government is resisting. Maybe it really is as simple as I said yesterday, May's utter terror of JRM and his ERG mafia means they (actually a pretty smallish minority) are effectively holding the rest of the Commons to ransom.

Passing this could change that, so the stakes are high.


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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 10:00 am 
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RogerOThornhill wrote:
Morning all.

Well, this is a lot of fun...and a lot of truth in there too about think-tanks...

https://twitter.com/PeteNorth303/status ... 3081949198

Thinking about who is pushing Brexit I'm reminded of Baldwin's "A lot of hard-faced men who look as if they had done very well out of the war" about the new MPs in 1918.


I seem to be only be able to read no.1 of a tweet labelled 'thread'. Has the rest been deleted?

As for "doing very well out of the war", I'm sure I needn't remind everyone that the main financial donors to the leave campaigns were hedge fund managers.

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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 10:04 am 
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Willow904 wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:
Morning all.

Well, this is a lot of fun...and a lot of truth in there too about think-tanks...

https://twitter.com/PeteNorth303/status ... 3081949198

Thinking about who is pushing Brexit I'm reminded of Baldwin's "A lot of hard-faced men who look as if they had done very well out of the war" about the new MPs in 1918.


I seem to be only be able to read no.1 of a tweet labelled 'thread'. Has the rest been deleted?

As for "doing very well out of the war", I'm sure I needn't remind everyone that the main financial donors to the leave campaigns were hedge fund managers.


And remind us all what your MP does for a living outside the HoC again?


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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 10:08 am 
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So what is actually going on with May?

1. Is she cleverly playing both ends against the middle, simply kicking the ball down the road until eventually we have no choice but to accept an exit in name only and stay within all sorts of structures?
2. Is she in thrall to her extremists and has decided - either ideologically or in a 'I made a face and the wind changed' way - that leaving on the hardest terms is the only way to go?
3. Is she utterly incompetent and hopelessly lost?
4. Is she genuinely just hanging on hoping something will happen somewhere somehow that will sort everything out?
5. What other alternatives are there?

I think it's a mixture of 2 and 3 with possibly a sprinkling of 4.

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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 10:17 am 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
Quote:
Grieve said that, when he used the phrase “we could collapse the government” in an interview at the weekend, he was talking about what might happen if the final Brexit withdrawal agreement were rejected. He said the whole point of his “meaningful vote” amendment was to stop that happening.


If rejecting the withdrawal agreement were to cause a constitutional crisis, this makes it very hard for MPs to say no, however bad the withdrawal agreement is. Only a mechanism within the withdrawal bill that avoids such a crisis can make any vote 'meaningful' in the sense that saying no is a realistic option that won't plunge the country into turmoil. This is what Keir Starmer means by a 'meaningful vote' and Grieve seems to agree with him and is doing his best to get one. This is a good thing and a defeat for the wilder element of the Eurosceptic right as it will make it harder for May to push through a withdrawal agreement that doesn't meet the approval of the majority of the Commons.


And apparently this latest Grieve amendment is the only one that the government is resisting. Maybe it really is as simple as I said yesterday, May's utter terror of JRM and his ERG mafia means they (actually a pretty smallish minority) are effectively holding the rest of the Commons to ransom.

Passing this could change that, so the stakes are high.


What's really worrying about all this is we're having an almighty ding dong over what would happen if May doesn't get an acceptable withdrawal agreement - because there is actually a very real likelihood of that happening.

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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 10:26 am 
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adam wrote:
So what is actually going on with May?

1. Is she cleverly playing both ends against the middle, simply kicking the ball down the road until eventually we have no choice but to accept an exit in name only and stay within all sorts of structures?
2. Is she in thrall to her extremists and has decided - either ideologically or in a 'I made a face and the wind changed' way - that leaving on the hardest terms is the only way to go?
3. Is she utterly incompetent and hopelessly lost?
4. Is she genuinely just hanging on hoping something will happen somewhere somehow that will sort everything out?
5. What other alternatives are there?

I think it's a mixture of 2 and 3 with possibly a sprinkling of 4.


I think, like most leave supporters, she's just desperately trying to get us over the March 2019 line with the absolutely delusional idea that once we're "out" everything will get easier and all the "tricky bits" like the Irish Border and Eurotom will just sort themselves out somehow. She just needs to get her withdrawal bill with the Henry VIII powers through which allows her to take lots of executive decisions without recourse to Parliament and all this tiresome business of being held to account by factions of MPs with their own tiresome ideas of what's best will be safely behind her.

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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 10:30 am 
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adam wrote:
So what is actually going on with May?

5. What other alternatives are there

I think it's a mixture of 2 and 3 with possibly a sprinkling of 4.

She hasn't called a snap election for a while,
maybe she thinks the NHS shenanigans will win some extra seats (this may be covered by 3.) & possibly ditch the DUP (though not sure this would increase her options)


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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 10:33 am 
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Despite their rhetoric the DUP would actually be OK with a "soft" Brexit in practice.


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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 10:36 am 
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3, imo.

Has she ever stopped to consider that if Brexit goes ahead and the govt has all the executive powers they want, there'll be no hiding place when it goes tits-up?
Are they so far gone they really think this coup is in the interests of anyone at all? Do they really mean to destroy democracy in this country?

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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 11:04 am 
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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 11:28 am 
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gilsey wrote:
This is a bit off topic and some may have seen it already elsewhere, but it's a good read.
https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us ... ngs-to-say
yes, a good read
I don't know anything about sport but I know it's good


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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 11:28 am 
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Good-afternoon, everyone


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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 11:35 am 
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gilsey wrote:
tinybgoat wrote:
- or reluctance of Tory Rebels (more dalliance than alliance) to risk Labour gvt.

Reluctance is a bit of an understatement, they talk about it as if it's Armageddon. OMG Corbyn.

Some value their pride more than the well-being of country and lives of people


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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 11:55 am 
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https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... led-people

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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 12:20 pm 
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So it appears that our PM told another fib (this time about cannabis oil being medicinally available)


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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 12:24 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
So it appears that our PM told another fib (this time about cannabis oil being medicinally available)
Is May okay or has she had a breakdown of some kind? Serious question.


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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 12:42 pm 
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https://www.theguardian.com/social-care ... ocial-care

Delay to green paper caps dismal 48 hours for social care


(in relation to half spend,the" long term.solution" is bollox,there is no elderly care system)

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Last edited by HindleA on Tue 19 Jun, 2018 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 12:44 pm 
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adam wrote:
Barnier making it clear this morning that leave means leave -some twitter quotes pinched from the daily pol in the graun.

Quote:
.@MichelBarnier “The #UK has decided to leave the EU...It will be a third country outside Schengen and outside the EU’s legal order. This is a fact. Facts have consequences.”

Quietly, Michel Barnier is shooting down virtually every UK demand on crime co-operation post-Brexit. He's just said that because of UK red line on ECJ he sees it as impossible that we can remain part of the European Arrest Warrant.

This language may not go down well. @MichelBarnier says will need "a common commitment to human rights & confidence that the other party will respect them." A little extraordinary.Let's be clear: we're talking about the UK here. Confirms EU demands UK commit to stay inside ECHR.

Quote:
Is there another region in the world where sovereign states built together a common area without internal border controls? Where citizens enjoy free movement and security and can avail of shared institutions to make sure their fundamental rights are protected? This cooperation is both, in fact, unique and unprecedented. And it is made possible by the trust between member states.

This trust does not fall from the sky. There is no magic wand. As I said in Lisbon, in front of the Federation for European Law [in this speech], this trust is founded on an ecosystem based on common rules and safeguards, shared decisions, joint supervision and implementation, and a common court of justice.

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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 12:46 pm 
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citizenJA wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
So it appears that our PM told another fib (this time about cannabis oil being medicinally available)
Is May okay or has she had a breakdown of some kind? Serious question.

Was she ever ok?
The more I see of her, the more I wonder.

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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 12:52 pm 
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https://www.politicshome.com/news/europ ... dvertising
"Tom Watson reports Theresa May to advertising watchdog over 'Brexit dividend' claim"


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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 1:00 pm 
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Certainly weird,"sorting out",a system that only exists in the imagination and repeated false description/representation alone.Is it sensible to treat independent living issues differently according to a turning of a day?

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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 1:06 pm 
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SC can serve varying purposes,some the same,some not not all age related.Is it that easily separable or should it be?Or do you set the overrall general purpose and suitably apply subject to particularities.It's far more wider than common conceptions of "care",as such,or should be.

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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 1:24 pm 
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https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/he ... -cash-left
"Philip Hammond tells Cabinet NHS boost means no cash left for anything else"


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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 1:36 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 1:39 pm 
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gilsey wrote:
Was she ever ok?
The more I see of her, the more I wonder.
(cJA edit)
Her public communications reinforce an impression of a profoundly disorientated person. Her position seems untenable.


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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 1:46 pm 
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gilsey wrote:
Quote:
link to speech from Michel Barnier

Is there another region in the world where sovereign states built together a common area without internal border controls? Where citizens enjoy free movement and security and can avail of shared institutions to make sure their fundamental rights are protected? This cooperation is both, in fact, unique and unprecedented. And it is made possible by the trust between member states.

This trust does not fall from the sky. There is no magic wand. As I said in Lisbon, in front of the Federation for European Law [in this speech], this trust is founded on an ecosystem based on common rules and safeguards, shared decisions, joint supervision and implementation, and a common court of justice.
(cJA edit)
that's beautiful


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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 1:55 pm 
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tinybgoat wrote:
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/health-and-care/nhs/news/96121/philip-hammond-tells-cabinet-nhs-boost-means-no-cash-left
"Philip Hammond tells Cabinet NHS boost means no cash left for anything else"


So he is channelling Liam Byrne now?


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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 2:38 pm 
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I know this is not a surprise, but still...

Ann Coulter tells Trump that immigrant children are 'child actors', in Fox News interview

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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 3:57 pm 
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:-


Attachments:
DgDMgNzX0AADxls.jpeg
DgDMgNzX0AADxls.jpeg [ 37.88 KiB | Viewed 911 times ]

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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 4:00 pm 
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https://www.insidehousing.co.uk/news/ju ... rent-56836


Only 44% of homes delivered through central government funding programmes in England were for affordable or social rent last year, the lowest figure since current records began.

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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 6:33 pm 
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Its gone quiet again.......

Seems like tomorrow's crucial vote might be fairly close, though as ever I am not getting my hopes up too much.


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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 6:58 pm 
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Crace --- /tory-benches-empty-for-failing-graylings-defence-maybe-the-trains-were-late

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -were-late


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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 7:30 pm 
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Shortlisting and winner of the Paul Foot Award...

https://twitter.com/SamiraAhmedUK/statu ... 2927814658

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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 7:52 pm 
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goodnight, everyone
love,
cJA


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