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PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun, 2018 2:05 pm 
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Nicky Morgan
[quote]I welcome acknowledgment from the Government that House of Commons standing orders mean that it is the Speaker who determines whether a motion is expressed in neutral terms - on this basis Parliament’s vote is meaningful - and I will support Govt Amendment in lieu[\quote]


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PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun, 2018 2:09 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Ah - no Tory rebellion following a new concession.

Anyone know about it?


It looks like another non-binding promise to me. Easy to wriggle out of. Unless someone's got some clever amendments up their sleeve for the trade & customs bill, the Commons role in Brexit is now all but done if the govt wins this as far as I can see.

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PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun, 2018 2:23 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Nicky Morgan
Quote:
I welcome acknowledgment from the Government that House of Commons standing orders mean that it is the Speaker who determines whether a motion is expressed in neutral terms - on this basis Parliament’s vote is meaningful - and I will support Govt Amendment in lieu[\quote]


John Bercow's days are now very much numbered.


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PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun, 2018 2:29 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Ah - no Tory rebellion following a new concession.

Anyone know about it?


It looks like another non-binding promise to me. Easy to wriggle out of. Unless someone's got some clever amendments up their sleeve for the trade & customs bill, the Commons role in Brexit is now all but done if the govt wins this as far as I can see.


Too easy to wriggle out of. I didn't think that Dominic Grieve would be that easily turned after the last episode. Oh, well . . .


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PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun, 2018 2:42 pm 
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If Jacob Rees Mogg is happy, then something is very wrong.


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PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun, 2018 2:51 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
If Jacob Rees Mogg is happy, then something is very wrong.

:shock:
yep


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PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun, 2018 2:52 pm 
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I'm not comfortable with current political goings on here


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PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun, 2018 3:02 pm 
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Government wins by 16 votes.

Yes - 303

No - 319


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PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun, 2018 3:09 pm 
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Grieve voted against his own amendment


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PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun, 2018 3:28 pm 
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According to Sparrow, four Labour MPs voted with government
no surprises who
six Tory MPs voted against government


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PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun, 2018 3:31 pm 
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Quote:
The six rebels were:

Heidi Allen
Ken Clarke
Philip Lee
Antoinette Sandbach
Anna Soubry
Sarah Wollaston


Too little, too late.

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PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun, 2018 3:37 pm 
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Quote:
Leading Tory Brexiter John Redwood said he was
very satisfied” with the result. “I never rashly doubted we would win, as otherwise it would frustrate the will of the British people,

Asked why the Tory rebels in both houses pushed the issue so long he said:
You’ll have to ask them. But I do think the Lords made a big mistake. It is a cruel irony that many of those making the amendments are of the generation of politicians who gave away so many powers to Brussels. And now it seems their main aim is to stop us from getting back those powers.
Does Redwood believe what he's saying is true? I don't know which would frighten me more, his believing what he's said or his knowingly repeating inaccuracies


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PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun, 2018 3:46 pm 
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I look forward to those making egregious mistakes regretting them all while spending the rest of their lives making reparations for their wrongs


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PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun, 2018 4:12 pm 
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Quote:
The EU Withdrawal bill will return to the House of Lords tonight

The Lords *will* consider the EU Withdrawal bill again tonight, but by convention they are unlikely to send it back to the Commons again.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... 2cac880138
What convention is that, please?


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PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun, 2018 4:18 pm 
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citizenJA wrote:
Quote:
The EU Withdrawal bill will return to the House of Lords tonight

The Lords *will* consider the EU Withdrawal bill again tonight, but by convention they are unlikely to send it back to the Commons again.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... 2cac880138
What convention is that, please?

Salisbury Convention.

Not 100% obvious that it applies, since May doesn't have a majority.

But I suppose the DUP did have a similar Brexit commitment in their manifesto, so it could be argued there is a mandate.


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PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun, 2018 4:32 pm 
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-44546780
"Guy Verhofstadt warns MPs of 'two decade' Brexit ratification"


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PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun, 2018 4:33 pm 
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There's one thing worse than leaving the EU without a deal and that's leaving the EU without a deal and without a withdrawal bill.

There seems little point the Lords sending the bill back to the Commons for further consideration and it would be irresponsible to refuse to pass the bill, so it will probably go through pretty swiftly now.

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PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun, 2018 4:34 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
Quote:
The EU Withdrawal bill will return to the House of Lords tonight

The Lords *will* consider the EU Withdrawal bill again tonight, but by convention they are unlikely to send it back to the Commons again.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... 2cac880138
What convention is that, please?

Salisbury Convention.

Not 100% obvious that it applies, since May doesn't have a majority.

But I suppose the DUP did have a similar Brexit commitment in their manifesto, so it could be argued there is a mandate.
May doesn't lead a majority government. It wouldn't be outrageous in the least for the Lords to send it back


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PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun, 2018 4:39 pm 
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Regardless of this particular vote, the Salisbury Convention is for majority governments and May doesn't lead one


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PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun, 2018 5:14 pm 
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citizenJA wrote:
Regardless of this particular vote, the Salisbury Convention is for majority governments and May doesn't lead one

I kind of agree, then kind of not.

I think the point of the Convention is that the Lords, constitutionally, should not obstruct a policy that has a clear mandate from a General Election. It would be an abuse of their powers and of the Commons' hard won supremacy.


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PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun, 2018 6:27 pm 
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https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 1.html?amp
"Theresa May under fire as leaked emails revealed Whitehall officials described key Northern Rail routes as 'valueless'"


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PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun, 2018 6:49 pm 
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Crace

/dominic-grieve-tory-rebel-meaningful-vote-brexit

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ote-brexit


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PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun, 2018 6:53 pm 
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Are the 'usual channels' and arrangements generally in place in the Commons at the moment? Labour - and everybody outside of government in the commons - should definitely withdraw from them immediatley if they are. The government whips were a fucking disgrace today. I'm not surprised at the 'rebels' being bought off, but the whips' behaviour was off the scale. Make them scrabble for every vote and make the commons work to rule.

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PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun, 2018 7:43 pm 
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adam wrote:
Are the 'usual channels' and arrangements generally in place in the Commons at the moment? Labour - and everybody outside of government in the commons - should definitely withdraw from them immediatley if they are. The government whips were a fucking disgrace today. I'm not surprised at the 'rebels' being bought off, but the whips' behaviour was off the scale. Make them scrabble for every vote and make the commons work to rule.


Hear hear!

Shameful behaviour and all done, in the end, out of sheer, gratuitous nastiness.


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PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun, 2018 7:44 pm 
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https://news.sky.com/story/near-farcica ... e-11411335
"Near farcical scenes as Theresa May avoids Brexit reverse"
Quote:
The hilarious West End play This House was a glorious send-up of how sick and dying MPs were brought to the Commons to vote when the Labour government had no majority in the late 1970s.
And for the first time in many years, the same near farcical scenes returned to the Commons as Theresa May's government faced a Tory rebellion on the EU (Withdrawal) Bill on a so-called "meaningful vote" on Brexit.


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PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun, 2018 10:31 pm 
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goodnight, everyone
love,
cJA


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