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PostPosted: Sat 23 Jun, 2018 5:31 am 
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Morning all.


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PostPosted: Sat 23 Jun, 2018 5:35 am 
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Morning.

"Topic locked",stopped me deleting a series of my meandering nonsense.Any complaints should be addressed to admin.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/fixtures


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PostPosted: Sat 23 Jun, 2018 5:39 am 
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The pregnancy test came back negative but the craving for chocolate and sausages still persists.So much so an early hike to the 24hr garage and a barrel load of "Flakes".


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PostPosted: Sat 23 Jun, 2018 5:42 am 
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Barrel mention reminds me of water butt buying and "wearing",it was the only way I could think of getting it home.The days before internet buying,the fun we had.


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PostPosted: Sat 23 Jun, 2018 7:41 am 
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Two gooduns in the Telegraph this morning - behind their paywall so I can only see headlines and the opening of the stories, but that's enough.

EU diplomats shocked by Boris's 'four-letter reply' to business concerns about Brexit
Quote:
EU diplomats have claimed that during a Foreign Office reception to celebrate the Queen’s birthday last week, the Foreign Secretary was asked about the fears of some business leaders over Brexit and replied: “f*** business.”


Evicting criminals' families from council homes will help cut offending, says minister
Quote:
Violent criminals and gang leaders should have council houses taken away from their families to deter them from crime, a minister has said. Victoria Atkins, a minister in the Home Office, says hardened criminals who are blighting communities should lose their homes so that they "understand the consequences" of their actions.

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PostPosted: Sat 23 Jun, 2018 7:52 am 
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That Memories feature on Facebook brought this up for today...

Quote:
had a 2hr +meeting at school and then went and voted in the nursery next door.

That the Leave side seems to have no idea what will happen post-Brexit apart from saying "Yeah, we'll be fine. Trust us" when the "us" are people I wouldn't even trust to tell me the right time made it a simple choice


I don't see any reason to change that.

Right, shopping next...

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PostPosted: Sat 23 Jun, 2018 9:43 am 
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adam wrote:
Evicting criminals' families from council homes will help cut offending, says minister
Quote:
Violent criminals and gang leaders should have council houses taken away from their families to deter them from crime, a minister has said. Victoria Atkins, a minister in the Home Office, says hardened criminals who are blighting communities should lose their homes so that they "understand the consequences" of their actions.

Maybe we should take their kids off them and lock them up in cages.

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PostPosted: Sat 23 Jun, 2018 9:48 am 
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As for B Johnson's latest intervention, EU diplomats aren't the only ones to be shocked. Not by what he said but by him being there to say it. What would it take?

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PostPosted: Sat 23 Jun, 2018 9:52 am 
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gilsey wrote:
adam wrote:
Evicting criminals' families from council homes will help cut offending, says minister
Quote:
Violent criminals and gang leaders should have council houses taken away from their families to deter them from crime, a minister has said. Victoria Atkins, a minister in the Home Office, says hardened criminals who are blighting communities should lose their homes so that they "understand the consequences" of their actions.

Maybe we should take their kids off them and lock them up in cages.

And then not tell them where their kids are imprisoned !

A point made in this vid is that if you are arrested you are given a receipt for your personal effects, but nothing at all for a baby or child.

Map at 3.09 showing nationwide dipersal --

https://youtu.be/E3V48o7IGUo?t=189



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PostPosted: Sat 23 Jun, 2018 9:56 am 
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Jason Cowley

Verified account

@JasonCowleyNS
Follow Follow @JasonCowleyNS
More Jason Cowley Retweeted Philip Collins
A diplomat close to the Brexit process said to me: "It will take 10 years to leave, 10 years to realise it's a big mistake, and 10 years to rejoin!"

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PostPosted: Sat 23 Jun, 2018 10:01 am 
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frog222 wrote:
And then not tell them where their kids are imprisoned !

A point made in this vid is that if you are arrested you are given a receipt for your personal effects, but nothing at all for a baby or child.

Map at 3.09 showing nationwide dipersal --

https://youtu.be/E3V48o7IGUo?t=189


I haven't watched all of that but just the first few minutes, it's admirably clear reporting. We don't see much like that from the BBC.

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PostPosted: Sat 23 Jun, 2018 10:03 am 
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https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ssion=true

Quote:
I am standing against Erdoğan – from my prison cell
Selahattin Demirtaş
I was arrested 20 months ago. But in tomorrow’s presidential election I represent all Turks who believe in democracy

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PostPosted: Sat 23 Jun, 2018 10:39 am 
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Good morfternoon.

From yesterday -

Quote:
Grenfell inquiry sacks expert architectural witness

The public inquiry into the Grenfell Tower disaster has sacked its expert architectural witness after it emerged he was not a registered architect. (Guardian)


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jun/22/grenfell-inquiry-sacks-expert-architectural-witness-tower-fire


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PostPosted: Sat 23 Jun, 2018 10:50 am 
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^^^

For something as important as this you would have hoped that they had actually checked his credentials before appointing him.

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PostPosted: Sat 23 Jun, 2018 11:42 am 
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HindleA wrote:
Morning.

"Topic locked",stopped me deleting a series of my meandering nonsense.Any complaints should be addressed to admin.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/fixtures


You delete stuff which should stay up more often than the opposite, I would say.


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PostPosted: Sat 23 Jun, 2018 3:10 pm 
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https://www.gov.uk/government/news/alle ... aths-paper


Allegations of wrongdoing in Edexcel's C4 maths paper
Ofqual statement on allegations of malpractice or wrongdoing in Edexcel's C4 maths paper taken on 22 June 2018


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PostPosted: Sat 23 Jun, 2018 3:19 pm 
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gilsey wrote:
As for B Johnson's latest intervention, EU diplomats aren't the only ones to be shocked. Not by what he said but by him being there to say it. What would it take?


Well, it has to be arranged that he is safely out of the country come Monday......


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PostPosted: Sat 23 Jun, 2018 3:28 pm 
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Nick Gibb: "Teachers are taking control of their profession "

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/ ... profession


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PostPosted: Sat 23 Jun, 2018 4:27 pm 
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Mexico and Belgium looking good from what I have seen but will they sustain it in the knock out stages?


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PostPosted: Sat 23 Jun, 2018 4:38 pm 
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Mexico doing their best to mess this one up, mind.


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PostPosted: Sat 23 Jun, 2018 4:39 pm 
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The point I was sarcastically making re PIP and recent announcement

https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/p ... and-money/


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PostPosted: Sat 23 Jun, 2018 4:49 pm 
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I hold both party's guilty of false representation of the sick/disabled as not really so.


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PostPosted: Sat 23 Jun, 2018 4:50 pm 
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Well before New Labour


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PostPosted: Sat 23 Jun, 2018 4:54 pm 
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Legacy benefits,purposeful cash income to attend to deinstitutionalism,similarly DLA was actively encouraged in take up terms under Major-lack of rather than opposite.


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PostPosted: Sat 23 Jun, 2018 5:06 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
Well before New Labour


Ah yes, the whole fallacy of long term unemployed during the Thatcher years being dumped on the sick to massage the figures. The reality, of course, was more the case that a lot of older miners etc being made redundant at that time were often suffering from severe ill health as a direct consequence of their occupations.
There are lots of reasons other than fraud that explains a growing sickness and disability budget. Everything from charities helping people with mental health problems they didn't previously know they qualified for with their applications. The consequence of two prolonged wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. More women moving into work and households becoming reliant on two wages to pay housing costs meaning a second wage earner needing to make a claim while before households may have managed on one wage. Oh and the one that's putting a strain on pensions as well - people not dying because the NHS was properly funded under Labour. The Tories seem to be trying to fix that last one though...

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PostPosted: Sat 23 Jun, 2018 5:09 pm 
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The cost saving/independence enhancing crosspoint of the mutually beneficial scuppered,but not beyond repair,the conditional discretion services State control route versus the self directed meaningful choice and control an ever present tension.


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PostPosted: Sat 23 Jun, 2018 5:12 pm 
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Note the meaningful,well aware of the appropriation to own ends abnegation of responsibility.


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PostPosted: Sat 23 Jun, 2018 5:17 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
Mexico and Belgium looking good from what I have seen but will they sustain it in the knock out stages?

Mr gilsey got Belgium in the sweep at the pub so knowing our luck they've got no chance. :D

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PostPosted: Sat 23 Jun, 2018 5:22 pm 
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And reverberates to today,the hunt for the missing million continues and of course the Tories in turn play(ed) the same game


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PostPosted: Sat 23 Jun, 2018 5:25 pm 
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Idle speculation, but would taking sickness and disability benefits out of universal credit be a half way house to scrapping UC altogether? All benefits would still need huge reform, but the idea has been posited that we're at the point where scrapping UC is as costly and complicated as fixing it, yet for me treating people on ESA the same as people on JSA within the same benefit makes no sense. The "one single payment" thing particularly makes no sense because you will never claim JSA and ESA at the same time so they will never achieve an efficiency of them being paid " together" so why not take the simpler routx of assessing and paying ESA separately?

As I say, an idle thought. We're a long way from having a government in power who wants to fix UC at the moment, unfortunately.

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PostPosted: Sat 23 Jun, 2018 5:28 pm 
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WE are unusual in attending to in cash income terms ie, versus "services" it both confuses people and "useful "in false comparisons,


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PostPosted: Sat 23 Jun, 2018 5:34 pm 
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eg I don't think people would bemoan the NHS contributing to the costs of home dialysis but related links (or used to be) to other sources of income are presented as a problem.There are extra costs of the actual process and accounting/facilitation to undertake-room,time,associated etc


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PostPosted: Sat 23 Jun, 2018 5:36 pm 
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hospital transport savings a biggy


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PostPosted: Sat 23 Jun, 2018 5:40 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
HindleA wrote:
Well before New Labour


Ah yes, the whole fallacy of long term unemployed during the Thatcher years being dumped on the sick to massage the figures. The reality, of course, was more the case that a lot of older miners etc being made redundant at that time were often suffering from severe ill health as a direct consequence of their occupations.


Its a fallacy that was the only reason it happened I agree, but the 1980s Tory government tried every trick they could to get the jobless figures down.


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PostPosted: Sat 23 Jun, 2018 5:41 pm 
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One of my meanderings concerned the tangental,eg the removal of SMI wasn't specifically for the sick/disabled/carers but particularly pernicious to,people don't fit into easy fit categories and hence my repeated keep it complicated urges before you get to the varying situations/circumstances sometimes within an instance.


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PostPosted: Sat 23 Jun, 2018 6:26 pm 
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Two different things,the presentation of the sick/disabled not really being so and accounting for deinstutionalism move towards community as part of shenanigans had reverberations undermined good intentions,the ploughing of this myth led to inevitable consequences the fact that the Tories do/did the same doesn't make it wrong/right according to party allegiance.False representation of people.. is pernicious regardless.It led,having set out its stall to the hunt for the not really ill non existent and what we are seeing today.


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PostPosted: Sat 23 Jun, 2018 6:27 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
One of my meanderings concerned the tangental,eg the removal of SMI wasn't specifically for the sick/disabled/carers but particularly pernicious to,people don't fit into easy fit categories and hence my repeated keep it complicated urges before you get to the varying situations/circumstances sometimes within an instance.


One of the most bizarre things about universal credit is the idea that forcing people to apply for multiple benefits when they may only be interested in claiming one would either be "simpler" or "save money". Someone who only wants to apply for housing benefit now has to fill out a form for 5 other benefits and be assessed for them when before they were only assessed for one. It's kind of like the opposite of efficiency. It's like Ikea. You're interested in buying bedroom furniture but you can't just go to the bedroom furniture section you also have to visit every other room in the house to get there. Unless you take one of those funny little shortcuts round the back of a mirror but that usually just ends up getting you completely lost. I rather imagine filling out the UC application form is a bit like that. One wrong turn and you're back in sofas and have to start all over again.

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PostPosted: Sat 23 Jun, 2018 6:42 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
Two different things,the presentation of the sick/disabled not really being so and accounting for deinstutionalism move towards community as part of shenanigans had reverberations undermined good intentions,the ploughing of this myth led to inevitable consequences the fact that the Tories do/did the same doesn't make it wrong/right according to party allegiance.False representation of people.. is pernicious regardless.It led,having set out its stall to the hunt for the not really ill non existent and what we are seeing today.


I really don't think the fact that people with mental health conditions seem to be particularly poorly served by new assessments is accidental. There's a lot of evidence that the growth in the sickness/disability benefits bill under Labour was in part due to increased mental health claims, though not necessarily a growth in mental health issues, which is why the argument that the bill was running out of control and was growing exponentially was malicious and false. People who qualified but never previously claimed would only add to the figures once after which growth would be in line with growth in new mental health issues and thus return closer to trend for other disabilities. The coalition would have known this, the figures were clearly used cynically to falsely represent a growing problem of fraudulent claims or conditions believed to be self-inflicted and thus undeserving in order to justify harsh assessments and cut payments, rather than the reality of people who had long lived with schizophrenia or bipolar disorder etc finally getting the help they needed to live more stable and productive lives. Something that, as you have been pointing out, is absolutely vital when more expensive institutional placements have been closed for the very reasonable aim of giving people more autonomy over their own lives.

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PostPosted: Sat 23 Jun, 2018 9:32 pm 
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Who lost hundreds of friends on 911 ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmjPM7b7_2o


Must pick some of these tomorrow --
why-we-should-eat-weeds-gardens-alys-fowler
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... lys-fowler


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PostPosted: Sat 23 Jun, 2018 10:11 pm 
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One of the best Tweets I have ever seen, in response to Alistair Campbell enjoying the Peoples' Vote march.


Attachments:
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PostPosted: Sun 24 Jun, 2018 5:59 am 
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https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... -lexington
"Trump press secretary Sarah Sanders ejected from Virginia restaurant"
Quote:
The restaurant owner expressed no regrets, telling the Post: “I would have done the same thing again. We just felt there are moments in time when people need to live their convictions. This appeared to be one.”


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PostPosted: Sun 24 Jun, 2018 6:20 am 
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https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... -may-visit
"UK rabbi warns of genocide risk in Trump policies"
Quote:
Expressing concerns widely shared among Jewish leaders – who campaign constantly to remind the world of circumstances leading to the Holocaust – and other religious figures, she said: “The numbing of empathy, the dehumanisation of other people through the encouragement of disdain are documented stages in history that have led to atrocities and even genocides
“What has happened on the US-Mexico border is a moment of reckoning as it points to a systemic toxicity in public discourse and action. This needs to be stopped now.” She said the planned visit by Trump to the UK next month should go ahead: “I believe that our prime minister should be meeting her counterpart, to convey to him in the strongest terms the depth of opposition that these policies have evoked."
...............
At prime minister’s questions last week May – whose own immigration policies particularly as home secretary, have been criticised by charities and others – said she did not approve of Trump’s treatment of families, and that his visit would be an opportunity to convey that message.

Something along the lines of previous post, would be nice.


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PostPosted: Sun 24 Jun, 2018 8:55 am 
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https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 6.html?amp
"Gavin Williamson 'threatens to bring Theresa May's government down unless PM commits extra £20bn to defence'"
Quote:
‘I made her – and I can break her,’ defence secretary allegedly boasted


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PostPosted: Sun 24 Jun, 2018 9:01 am 
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tinybgoat wrote:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/gavin-williamson-theresa-may-defence-spending-row-bring-down-government-20bn-a8413916.html?amp
"Gavin Williamson 'threatens to bring Theresa May's government down unless PM commits extra £20bn to defence'"
Quote:
‘I made her – and I can break her,’ defence secretary allegedly boasted

Where do they find these people?

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PostPosted: Sun 24 Jun, 2018 9:07 am 
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https://www.mind.org.uk/news-campaigns/ ... y9fKPZFzIX


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PostPosted: Sun 24 Jun, 2018 9:26 am 
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@Willow,I personally saw the sense of applying for different things,separately and conducive with "dealing with" they have different eligibility,purposes,you could see the reason, any simplification risks losing the necessary complexity or as I would call it accounting as far as possible to the actual situation/circumstance.Maybe I am unusual.


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PostPosted: Sun 24 Jun, 2018 9:31 am 
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Having said that",simplification" would have reduced ours by one,for some of the time.


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PostPosted: Sun 24 Jun, 2018 9:36 am 
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Bit out of the loop but it seems to me that they have made the unnecessary complex and in a mess with addressing the removal of the necessary complex.


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PostPosted: Sun 24 Jun, 2018 9:37 am 
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gilsey wrote:
tinybgoat wrote:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/gavin-williamson-theresa-may-defence-spending-row-bring-down-government-20bn-a8413916.html?amp
"Gavin Williamson 'threatens to bring Theresa May's government down unless PM commits extra £20bn to defence'"
Quote:
‘I made her – and I can break her,’ defence secretary allegedly boasted

Where do they find these people?


Tory backbenches, it would appear.


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PostPosted: Sun 24 Jun, 2018 9:41 am 
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