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 Post subject: Tuesday 26th June 2018
PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun, 2018 7:25 am 
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Following on from last nights 'all going swimmingly' news

Brexit uncertainty putting 860,000 jobs at risk, warns car industry - Sector needs Britain to remain in customs union ‘as a minimum’, says lobby group

Quote:
The car industry has warned Theresa May there is “no Brexit dividend” for the business, with 860,000 jobs being put at risk unless the government “rethinks” its red lines in negotiations. In the starkest warning yet from a single business sector, the car lobby has told the government that it needs “as a minimum” to remain in the customs union and a deal that delivers “single market benefits”. “There is no Brexit dividend for our industry,” Michael Hawes, chief executive of the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders, said.

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PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun, 2018 8:12 am 
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Dear scrounger,
as from#### your income from ESA will stop forthwith.If you insist on continuing to be beholden to the taxpayer you have to make a claim for UC in between vomitting sessions,gasping for breath,lying on death bed and otherwise doing nothing with the curtains closed.We've made numerous fuckups on the few thousand transferred and as we have totally abnegated responsibility should the somewhat obvious happen it will be completely your fault

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PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun, 2018 8:14 am 
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"In essence"

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PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun, 2018 8:18 am 
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Still shudder at brown envelopes,the criminalised language,othering,blatant "nudging"

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PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun, 2018 8:20 am 
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adam wrote:
Following on from last nights 'all going swimmingly' news

Brexit uncertainty putting 860,000 jobs at risk, warns car industry - Sector needs Britain to remain in customs union ‘as a minimum’, says lobby group

Quote:
The car industry has warned Theresa May there is “no Brexit dividend” for the business, with 860,000 jobs being put at risk unless the government “rethinks” its red lines in negotiations. In the starkest warning yet from a single business sector, the car lobby has told the government that it needs “as a minimum” to remain in the customs union and a deal that delivers “single market benefits”. “There is no Brexit dividend for our industry,” Michael Hawes, chief executive of the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders, said.


There was a time when the BBC would endlessly quote the opinions of business leaders like the above as if they were gospel. Yet I don't remember the BBC asking business leaders for their opinions much pre-referendum. Were they unwilling to talk or were they never asked? I just want to be sure to blame the right people for failing to properly inform the public of the consequences of Brexit (other than the lame ass Tory party).

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PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun, 2018 8:42 am 
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https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... s-of-death

Quote:
NHS 'worse than average in treating eight common causes of death'
Major study compared UK health service with that of 18 other developed countries


Ignore the headline. The report, and therefore the rest of the article, is much more balanced. We're good in some areas worse in others. There is nothing here that suggests we need a new health system, just more investment in the right areas. We don't have enough doctors, nurses and MRI machines. Something that strikes me is that perhaps the NHS' problem is that getting some referrals and appointments is just too slow. We are excellent at looking after people once we know what's wrong with them so good care of chronic conditions such as diabetes, kidney disease etc, but more time sensitive areas, like pancreatic cancer are where we come out worse. I suspect our primary care is too generalised with a bottleneck effect getting patients referred to more specialist practitioners who are much better at picking up non-standard presentations of conditions in their field. If there was more integration, as there is with maternity services, so specialists are more easily accessed by GPS when needed, this might help. Also better primary care access to diagnostic tools. Locally GPS are able to refer patients directly to the x-ray department at the local hospital, for instance, completely bypassing the bureaucratic hospital appointment process, which is very helpful.

Anyway, seems like a good report in the sense that it doesn't provide any basis for arguing we need to change the system, but rather we need more investment and in that it states very clearly that the NHS scores extremely highly on efficiency (remarkable, really, given the disruptive and unhelpful Tory reorganisations and outsourcing) which makes it pretty impossible to argue that changing to a different health care structure could in any way save money. If we can't afford the NHS, we definitely can't afford any of the other slightly superior universal healthcare systems out there.

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PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun, 2018 8:45 am 
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Morning all.

So, Boris political career from now on...looking good or not?

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PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun, 2018 8:57 am 
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https://www.parliament.uk/business/comm ... /inquiry4/

Post-Brexit migration policy inquiry

https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Ind ... 922621aaf1

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PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun, 2018 9:11 am 
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https://welfareweekly.com/scrap-proposa ... says-mind/

Quote:
Draft proposals published last week set out plans to move more than two million disabled people from Employment and Support Allowance (ESA) to Universal Credit (UC).

This will affect around one million people with mental health problems and will begin in 2019.

People currently receiving ESA will be sent a letter informing them that their benefits will be stopped. They will be asked to make a brand new claim for Universal Credit.


New claimants of UC don't get any money for the first week of the claim. Does this mean two million sick and disabled people are going to be deprived of a week's worth of income purely because the government can't be bothered to create a transfer system for people with existing claims who are being moved over, through no fault of their own, to a different benefit?

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PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun, 2018 9:35 am 
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So...my daughter's cat was rather poorly recently (bear with me...) so she had a night or two at the vet being looked after and we had meds to administer, and she's fine now.

But here's the thing...I took her to the vet last week and they did blood tests and I was out of the vet in about 15 minutes having heard that the blood results were fine.

So why can't they have blood testing machines in GP surgeries so they can do a quick and dirty test just to see whether there's anything that needs further examination?

I say this as my wife had to go for a blood test early this morning at the "local" hospital, and has yet to return.

Feasible or not?

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PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun, 2018 10:38 am 
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RogerOThornhill wrote:
Morning all.

So, Boris political career from now on...looking good or not?


Pretty much destroyed, I would say. Couldn't happen to a nicer bloke etc etc ;)


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PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun, 2018 10:40 am 
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Good morfternoon.

Quote:
Earlier I said that Theresa May could find it hard reassuring business leaders about her government’s pro-business credentials when she speaks at the Times CEO summit later. (See 9.17am.) In her Times column (paywall) Rachel Sylvester explains the problem with some striking quotes.

In contrast to Labour, who with John McDonnell as shadow chancellor are “deadly serious” about shaking up the economy, the Tories are seen as “frivolous”, with no answers to the big challenges facing the country. “People are constantly amazed by just how s*** ministers are,” says this corporate source.(Politics Live, Guardian)







Edited - typo

And to add - I ceased to be amazed quite some time ago


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PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun, 2018 11:09 am 
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RogerOThornhill wrote:
So...my daughter's cat was rather poorly recently (bear with me...) so she had a night or two at the vet being looked after and we had meds to administer, and she's fine now.

But here's the thing...I took her to the vet last week and they did blood tests and I was out of the vet in about 15 minutes having heard that the blood results were fine.

So why can't they have blood testing machines in GP surgeries so they can do a quick and dirty test just to see whether there's anything that needs further examination?

I say this as my wife had to go for a blood test early this morning at the "local" hospital, and has yet to return.

Feasible or not?


Could well be a go-er for routine and follow-ups, thus saving everyone's time and saving money. I don't know enough about the subject to say whether or not it would suffice for more open-ended stuff.


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PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun, 2018 11:22 am 
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PorFavor wrote:
Good morfternoon.

Quote:
Earlier I said that Theresa May could find it hard reassuring business leaders about her government’s pro-business credentials when she speaks at the Times CEO summit later. (See 9.17am.) In her Times column (paywall) Rachel Sylvester explains the problem with some striking quotes.

In contrast to Labour, who with John McDonnell as shadow chancellor are “deadly serious” about shaking up the economy, the Tories are seen as “frivolous”, with no answers to the big challenges facing the country. “People are constantly amazed by just how s*** ministers are,” says this corporate source.(Politics Live, Guardian)


Edited - typo

And to add - I ceased to be amazed quite some time ago


Until a significant proportion of "business leaders" are prepared to damn the Tories in public - together with an explicit threat to take their support elsewhere - I fear that the government will continue to basically ignore them. After all, why shouldn't they?


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PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun, 2018 11:38 am 
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May's probably been telling business leaders we'll stay in the single market while telling the country and her cabinet we won't.
Like she agrees things with Brussels only to contradict it the moment she gets home.

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PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun, 2018 12:39 pm 
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Quote:
lisa o'carroll
@lisaocarroll
Sharp remark by Japanese Ambassador to Uk - he said they got their Brexit paper to UK Govt within 3 months of referendum because “we worked during the summer” because we thought it was important
1:05 pm · 26 Jun 2018


Contrast with the pathetic "white paper" the government was forced to produce for the article 50 vote and Davis' non-existent impact assessments and all that time wasted on an unnecessary election and it's hard not to come to the conclusion that there is something very wrong with this country.

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PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun, 2018 1:13 pm 
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Quote:
According to Politico Europe, the European commission told EU countries earlier this month that their airports and airlines should make contingency plans for a no deal Brexit. (Politics Live, Guardian)


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PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun, 2018 1:15 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
May's probably been telling business leaders we'll stay in the single market while telling the country and her cabinet we won't.
Like she agrees things with Brussels only to contradict it the moment she gets home.


Keeping all the plates spinning in the air, the only problem with that is the almighty crash that inevitably comes in the end.

And the longer that is delayed, the worse it could actually be.......


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PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun, 2018 3:18 pm 
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https://news.sky.com/story/amp/theresa- ... m-11417620
"Theresa May reassures CEOs after Boris Johnson 'f*** business' claim"
Quote:
Asked if he could justify the alleged outburst, Mr Johnson replied: "I don't think anybody could doubt the passionate support of this Government for business.
"And it may be that I have from time to time expressed scepticism about some of the views of those who profess to speak up for business."


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PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun, 2018 5:00 pm 
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A bit early in the day for this Trumpology , but it still makes me smile :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57jRBt4h6ks



Down to 26°, out for tea in my well-shaded garden !


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PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun, 2018 6:14 pm 
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Crace --afghan-holiday-catches-up-with-crumpled-boris-in-commons

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... in-commons


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PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun, 2018 6:28 pm 
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Quote:
France and Germany will block May's single market plan, says Spain

Madrid’s foreign minister [Josep Borrell] says there will be no deal for goods access without free movement

He warned that France and Germany were irritated with the energy-sapping talks with the UK and would not accept such a proposal. Spain, which he described as “disappointed, not angry” by Brexit, was in agreement with Paris and Berlin, he added.

He added: “I don’t think France or Germany will accept that. They are quite angry with the United Kingdom. Because of all this mess, all the trouble created, all this time lost on negotiations. When we should be discussing eurozone and immigration, we are discussing what to do with someone who wants to leave. It is really a very bad allocation of intelligence, resources and money.”

“Brexit is not a political problem but it is a pain in the ass,” Borrell said. (Guardian - my emphasis)


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/26/france-and-germany-will-block-mays-single-market-plan-says-spain


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PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun, 2018 6:33 pm 
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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... says-spain

Quote:
France and Germany will block May's single market plan, says Spain
Madrid’s foreign minister says there will be no deal for goods access without free movement


If he's right (and it's just his opinion of course) this doesn't look hopeful for Labour's plans either. But it makes sense. The EU is under siege from hostile outside forces, from the US and Russia, that want to break it up. For the EU to survive Brexit it needs to hold firm. If it starts bending rules for individual countries, the whole thing starts to fall apart. It wouldn't surprise me if France and Germany stick with the line that the four freedoms are indivisible, you either accept the rules and you're in or you don't and you're out. I know that some people think Labour would get a different answer, but I'm uncertain. I know I wouldn't want to let the UK pick and choose which bits of the single market it wanted to comply with if I represented an EU country.

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PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun, 2018 6:33 pm 
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Oh snap!

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PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun, 2018 6:39 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
Oh snap!


Still, on the upside, at least the UK hasn't been wasting any intelligence . . .

On the downside, I think that Jeremy Corbyn's thoughts on the EU are based upon Bennite folk memories that he can't shake off. I'm beginning to lose patience.





Edited - typo


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PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun, 2018 6:46 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
Oh snap!


Still, on the upside, at least the UK hasn't been wasting any intelligence . . .

On the downside, I think that Jeremy Corbyn's thoughts on the EU are based upon Bennite folk memories that he can't shake off. I'm beginning to lose patience.
Edited - typo

You are not alone .

Where’s Jeremy Corbyn? Lost in a rose-tinted vision of Labour’s past -- John Harris

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... abour-past


Last edited by frog222 on Tue 26 Jun, 2018 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun, 2018 6:47 pm 
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Eleven local council byelections last week:

Cherwell DC - the first of the two remaining deferred elections from last month's polls saw an Independent gain from the Tories in a ward which split 1Ind/2C in the all-out post boundary change elections here two years ago (the winning Indy topped the poll and finished well ahead of their running mate) The winning share of 40% was little changed from the top Independent then, meaning an increase of 10% for the Tories from two years ago was still nowhere near enough to save them. Labour were only just behind the Tories then, but a modest increase in comparison to 20% left them clearly behind now. Greens more than halved from last time, but still just ahead of the LibDems who got 3% now after sitting the last election out.

Brent - the final bit of unfinished business from May saw the 2014 round of elections finally pass into history with a thumping Labour win with over two thirds of the vote and an increase well into double figures - returning three members for the party safely for the first time since 2002. The following year the LibDems won a famous win in the Brent East byelection (of which this ward formed a part) and they went on to top the poll here in both 2006 and 2010, things splitting 2LD/1Lab each time. Labour won all three four years ago, but a Green-sympathising Independent was competitive then, their absence now moved things to super safe status with the official Greens taking a very distant second with 11% despite actually dropping on last time. Tories came just behind them with a modest increase, ahead of the LibDems who declined further - coming last with less than 9%.

Basingstoke and Deane DC - Tory hold of a safe ward which returned 3 councillors for them in the 2008 all-out elections and has remained rock solid for them since - this time round a share of over 60% was good enough to get them a win over Labour by almost 2 to 1; this was actually a decent swing to Labour since the May elections here, but actually very little changed from a previous by-election as recently as March this year. LibDems came second here in the two pre-coalition elections (2008 and 2010) but were down to 7% now, a drop of 5 points since last month.

Fenland DC - Tory hold with over 60% of the vote, an increase of some 6 per cent, since the 2015 elections (the first since boundary changes) when the Tories safely took this new single member ward with UKIP coming second. Their now familiar absence caused the LibDems to move up a place with a tiny "swing" to them overall, for what little that is worth here. This time an Independent intervened, and came third with 16%.

Watford DC - LibDem hold of one of their local strongholds after the incumbent became the newly elected mayor last month (new person but same party, this was very much a LibDem hold) This ward duly elected three councillors for them in the 2016 all out elections after boundary changes and was indeed safe for them long before that - it says something that their winning score of 55% was slightly down on a month ago and represented a modest swing to the second placed Tories even though they were still outpolled 2 to 1. Labour remained in third, their 17% a fraction down on May.

Charnwood DC - Tory hold in a ward which has safely elected two members for them in every election since 2003, despite their share dropping 9 points to just over half this time round. Labour also dropped slightly since 2015, though remaining in second place as in every previous election this millennium - this is due to the LibDems standing for the first time since 2003 and improving slightly on that showing with a decent 17%. UKIP dropped from their only previous outing three years ago, but 10% is actually a decent showing for them these days (as is standing at all, really)

West Somerset DC - I said this about another byelection here a few months ago, but perhaps this vacancy really is the final one before this undersized council gets merged with its (somewhat) bigger neighbour in Taunton next year - if so it was a memorable one for the LibDems at least as they gained a seat in this two member ward from UKIP - who split this one with the Tories last time after it divided 1Ind/1C in 2011 (the first post boundary change election) LibDems did not stand in either of those polls, but nearly 40% now was enough for a comfortable win as the Tories were almost unchanged despite the expected "bonus" of no UKIP candidate this time. Independents continued their drift downwards with 20% this time, though that was enough to overtake Labour who narrowly missed out on a seat both previous elections but dropped over 5 points now.

South Northamptonshire DC - two vacancies here, the first was a routine Tory win - beating Labour by 3 to 1 in a straight fight, little changed from 2015 - in a very safe ward for them that was actually unopposed in both 2003 and 2007; the other contest was rather different however as the LibDems stormed to victory in a ward where the Tories had been unopposed in both 2011 and 2015 - taking well over half the vote. Strictly speaking there is thus no "swing" here, but just for fun it equates to a shift of around 60 per cent from three years ago! Labour actually won here in 2003, but in 2007 they were well beaten and their first foray since then saw them score less than 7%.

Basildon DC - a double vacancy here too, the first was a Labour hold with 57% in one of their more reliable wards here - it elected three councillors for them in the all-out elections of 2002 and subsequently until UKIP took both seats in a "dual vacancy" at their 2014 high point. Labour held their remaining seat narrowly in 2015, however, and won back the others in 2016 and last month - the latter very comfortably as UKIP slumped to third. There was a further small swing to Labour since then as the Tories took exactly a quarter of the vote - whilst UKIP declined still further and the BNP (a rare electoral foray for them these days) got just 4%, some way from the 2003-2010 period when they polled respectably here. The other contest saw a Labour gain from UKIP (being the seat that they previously won in 2016) but it was actually a very close contest between them and the Tories with the red team coming just 1% ahead here with 46%, a swing of about 4% to them since last month when the Tories narrowly won both seats here in another "dual" contest - after this ward split 2Lab/1C back in 2002 the Tories tended to come out on top in subsequent polls even though it was sometimes close, until Labour won in 2012 and then UKIP in both 2014 and two years ago; however UKIP has crashed here since then (as in many other places) and their 8% was a further decline since May despite being the "defending" party here ;)

Four contests this week.


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PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun, 2018 6:54 pm 
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@frog222

Thanks for that - I hadn't seen it before. I often don't like John Harris, but that was a pretty good article.


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PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun, 2018 7:03 pm 
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A company co-founded by Jeremy Hunt breached company law before carrying out a restructuring designed to reduce the health secretary’s tax bill by about £100,000, it has emerged.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -broke-law


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PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun, 2018 7:08 pm 
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refitman wrote:
Quote:
A company co-founded by Jeremy Hunt breached company law before carrying out a restructuring designed to reduce the health secretary’s tax bill by about £100,000, it has emerged.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -broke-law


Ah, well. We all make "mistakes". We've all read recently about what happens when you make mistakes with your tax returns. No doubt Jeremy Hunt will have some similar treatment meted out to him.


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PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun, 2018 7:11 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
Oh snap!


Still, on the upside, at least the UK hasn't been wasting any intelligence . . .

On the downside, I think that Jeremy Corbyn's thoughts on the EU are based upon Bennite folk memories that he can't shake off. I'm beginning to lose patience.





Edited - typo


I lost patience half way through his post referendum speech!

However......if Theresa May gets a withdrawal agreement, if there is a transition period, there will still be time for him to change his mind. My hope is that the single market door will always be open if we are willing to accept the rules and we manage to elect a PM who sees the benefit. Otherwise we are looking at a very bleak future, I fear.

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PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun, 2018 7:14 pm 
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Sorry. I'm guilty, above, of the "we all" thing which annoys me so much (as in - "we all love", "we all grieve" "we all etc etc").


Last edited by PorFavor on Tue 26 Jun, 2018 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun, 2018 7:18 pm 
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PF 9.19 last night

Just for the record -

Heathrow vote:

Ayes: 415
Noes: 119.

My reaction to that one is approximately as many MP's voted overwhelmingly for a bloody referendum,

and look where that got us :-)


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PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun, 2018 7:20 pm 
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All I did was move a (brackets related) full stop! Didn't want to bore you all . . .


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PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun, 2018 9:51 pm 
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Another UK proposal comes pre-rejected by the EU
France and Germany will block May's single market plan, says Spain (As will Spain)

Quote:
Theresa May’s plan to protect British industry by keeping the UK in a single market for goods without respecting the free movement of people after Brexit will be rejected by an “angry” France and Germany, despite some sympathy within the EU to Downing Street’s cause, Spain’s foreign minister has said. The new Spanish government would also block such a political fix, Josep Borrell told the Guardian, ahead of both a summit of leaders in Brussels and a summer tour by the prime minister of EU capitals during which May hopes to convince leaders of her economic case.


And desperate times call for desperate measures...
Unions join business leaders to demand urgency in Brexit talks
Quote:
British and European trade unions and business organisations have joined forces to demand that “pace and urgency” be injected into the Brexit talks as complaints about the lack of progress made in negotiations intensified ahead of this week’s EU summit. The TUC and the CBI released a rare joint statement with their continental counterparts calling for “measurable progress”, a day after the car industry called for a Brexit deal that delivers “single market benefits” and cabinet tensions over the issue flared into the open.


One of the lines we're starting to hear from leave BTLers is 'no you don't understand, Business is not anti-leave, it just wants certainty'. This is clearly nonsense (as is 'Airbus are taking instructions from their Euro politician paymasters and they can't afford to leave', two other things I've seen). They want to keep the functional arrangements we have now. There's only one way that can be done.

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PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun, 2018 10:02 pm 
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adam wrote:


And desperate times call for desperate measures...
Unions join business leaders to demand urgency in Brexit talks
Quote:
British and European trade unions and business organisations have joined forces to demand that “pace and urgency” be injected into the Brexit talks as complaints about the lack of progress made in negotiations intensified ahead of this week’s EU summit. The TUC and the CBI released a rare joint statement with their continental counterparts calling for “measurable progress”, a day after the car industry called for a Brexit deal that delivers “single market benefits” and cabinet tensions over the issue flared into the open.


One of the lines we're starting to hear from leave BTLers is 'no you don't understand, Business is not anti-leave, it just wants certainty'. This is clearly nonsense (as is 'Airbus are taking instructions from their Euro politician paymasters and they can't afford to leave', two other things I've seen). They want to keep the functional arrangements we have now. There's only one way that can be done.


Hadn't seen that union bit before you posted it. How very European!


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PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun, 2018 10:15 pm 
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Who to believe ???

boris-johnson-given-cold-shoulder-by-fed-up-cabinet-colleagues

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... colleagues


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