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 Post subject: Friday 29th June 2018
PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 5:36 am 
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Morning all.


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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 6:44 am 
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Morning.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/european- ... eal-2018-6

Quote:
The EU will reject Theresa May's single market for goods Brexit proposal


It's not actually difficult to see this from the EU's point of view and understand why they can't allow the UK to cherry pick. So why is the UK wasting time chasing rainbows?

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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 8:19 am 
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Willow904 wrote:
Morning.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/european- ... eal-2018-6

Quote:
The EU will reject Theresa May's single market for goods Brexit proposal


It's not actually difficult to see this from the EU's point of view and understand why they can't allow the UK to cherry pick. So why is the UK wasting time chasing rainbows?


Because the only other thing we have to say is 'We've got this very, very wrong haven't we?' and the government won't ever say that.

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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 8:46 am 
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Morning all.

I see GDP for the 1st quarter has been adjusted upwards from a paltry 0.1% to a massive..er...0.2%

https://twitter.com/ONS/status/1012614755549437953

Whoopy-doo...

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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 9:07 am 
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https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/m ... n-in-cuts/

Minister lauds £600,000 for rail access… after her department confirms £47 million in cuts

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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 9:30 am 
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Willow904 wrote:
Morning.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/european- ... eal-2018-6

Quote:
The EU will reject Theresa May's single market for goods Brexit proposal


It's not actually difficult to see this from the EU's point of view and understand why they can't allow the UK to cherry pick. So why is the UK wasting time chasing rainbows?


Because we hope they will change their minds if we insist on it enough?

Anyway, I see that our PM is saying the slow progress of negotiations is all the EU's fault. So that's sorted then ;)


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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 10:20 am 
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"Judge Sir Peter Openshaw has lifted the "stay," the bar, on prosecuting ex South Yorkshire police Ch Supt David Duckenfield; he will now be tried for 95 counts of manslaughter"

via David Conn on twitter

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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 10:27 am 
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To begin on !0th September,Preston

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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 10:28 am 
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HindleA wrote:
To begin on !0th September,Preston


95 not 96 because Tony Bland died more than a year and a day after the incident and, at the time, that was the 'statute of limitations' rule on murder and manslaughter charges.

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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 10:30 am 
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https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/f ... -foul-ups/

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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 10:37 am 
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HindleA wrote:
https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/failing-dwp-announces-sixth-review-of-benefit-records-after-latest-foul-ups/


Spokesperson seems to be trying to spin it as a "But look how much we're spending" exercise.


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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 10:59 am 
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I would say look how much you've wasted far better deployed and provide budgeting advice.

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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 11:00 am 
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Quote:
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First time to my knowledge today that Danny Dyer gets a mention at the regular No10 press briefing. Also probably also the first time PM’s spokeswoman is asked if Theresa May also believes David Cameron is “a twat”.


:lol:

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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 11:03 am 
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The thing is, on this at least she probably DOES agree with him :D


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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 11:21 am 
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The figures in here are quite shocking.

Derby Manufacturing UTC placed in special measures

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/derby-manufacturing-utc-placed-in-special-measures/

Quote:
Derby Manufacturing UTC has been placed in special measures after getting a grade four across the board in a report which warned it was “failing to give its pupils an acceptable standard of education”.

Safeguarding at the UTC is “not effective” and the leaders responsible do not get “sufficient time or resources to fulfil their role effectively”.

“A minority of parents who expressed a view said that their child does not feel safe at the school,” the report said.

...

The verdict means that almost a quarter of the 33 UTCs inspected so far have received Ofsted’s bottom grade.


Sixty-one per cent of all UTCs inspected have been rated less than ‘good’. Six, all grade three or four, have since closed.

Of the remaining 27 that are still open, 14 are rated either ‘requires improvement’ or ‘inadequate’.


No oversight whatsoever - the DfE ideology of "just let them get on with it" proving to be a disaster for the kids and families involved.

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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 11:37 am 
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What were Hard Brexit Leavers saying about wanting to go by WTO rules? Well...


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Axios

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President Trump has repeatedly told top White House officials he wants to withdraw the United States from the World Trade Organization, a move that would throw global trade into wild disarray

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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 1:27 pm 
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RogerOThornhill wrote:
Quote:
Peter Walker

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First time to my knowledge today that Danny Dyer gets a mention at the regular No10 press briefing. Also probably also the first time PM’s spokeswoman is asked if Theresa May also believes David Cameron is “a twat”.


:lol:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-W77154J0-w



Need a factcheck on this, but weren't Corbyn, Maybot among the very big majority who voted for it ?


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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 1:37 pm 
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Both did, yes - though Corbyn's support for a European referendum goes back a fair bit further than that.


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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 1:39 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Both did, yes - though Corbyn's support for a European referendum goes back a fair bit further than that.

Thanks . Not very wise of him , as we are seeing .


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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 1:54 pm 
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In his defence, one run on *his* terms might have gone rather better?


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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 4:32 pm 
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If Corbyn thought Cameron's referendum terms were reckless he should have voted against it as the SNP did. I think one Labour MP did too but I'm not sure where to look to check this. Anywsy, the fact Labour supported Cameron's flawed referendum bill is why I have lost faith in them and as for Corbyn - the fact that he had long wanted and campaigned for this, for us to leave the EU, that's something that is very hard for me to forgive or, indeed, understand.

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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 4:56 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
If Corbyn thought Cameron's referendum terms were reckless he should have voted against it as the SNP did. I think one Labour MP did too but I'm not sure where to look to check this. Anywsy, the fact Labour supported Cameron's flawed referendum bill is why I have lost faith in them and as for Corbyn - the fact that he had long wanted and campaigned for this, for us to leave the EU, that's something that is very hard for me to forgive or, indeed, understand.


Except he didn't campaign for that, of course. Some people supported a referendum on principle and that is their right.


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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 5:06 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
If Corbyn thought Cameron's referendum terms were reckless he should have voted against it as the SNP did. I think one Labour MP did too but I'm not sure where to look to check this. Anywsy, the fact Labour supported Cameron's flawed referendum bill is why I have lost faith in them and as for Corbyn - the fact that he had long wanted and campaigned for this, for us to leave the EU, that's something that is very hard for me to forgive or, indeed, understand.


Except he didn't campaign for that, of course. Some people supported a referendum on principle and that is their right.


So all those years Corbyn actively supported an EU referendum and criticised the EU and single market he did so expecting people to ignore his criticism and vote to stay in? Is that really credible? I know he campaigned to remain in the event, but he had to or he wouldn't have been able to continue as Labour leader, would he?

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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 5:14 pm 
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He comes across to me as a Euro-*sceptic* in the genuine (and largely original) sense of the term, that is a perfectly honourable position even if I (we) disagree with it.

He isn't a crazed ideologue fake-nationalist disaster capitalist like your MP (nor are all Tory genuine sceptics tbf)


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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 5:33 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
He comes across to me as a Euro-*sceptic* in the genuine (and largely original) sense of the term, that is a perfectly honourable position even if I (we) disagree with it.

He isn't a crazed ideologue fake-nationalist disaster capitalist like your MP (nor are all Tory genuine sceptics tbf)


And it's perfectly honourable for a Europhile to refuse to support the European policy of a Eurosceptic.

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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 5:39 pm 
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Of course it is, never said otherwise.

(though let that be what it actually is, rather than the caricature often preferred by the #FBPE brigade)


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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 6:36 pm 
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David Davis has spent just 4 hours in talks with Michel Barnier this year
EU leaders cite lack of engagement as they rebuke UK for slow progress on Brexit

https://www.ft.com/content/9e3aacf0-7b9 ... daf11b720d

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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 6:43 pm 
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Robert Peston
10 hrs ·
If like the legend that is Danny Dyer on ITV last night, you think “no one has a ****ing clue what Brexit is”, this note won’t help.
Because it is going to tell you what continues to divide ministers about our future trading relationship with the EU, ahead of their supposedly historic meeting at Chequers in precisely a week. And the point is that in most spectators the fire and fury of internal government arguments - about the arcana of how closely to align our business rules with the EU or what sort of border checks to introduce - induce torpor and bemusement.

Rarely has what threatens to bring down a government seemed so detached from the daily interests and needs of those they represent.
Do strap yourself in: here is what stirs up the cabinet with all the blood, sweat and tears of a religious war, while alienating the rest of us.

1. where to draw the line between goods and services?

The point is that the PM has herded most of the cabinet, with the Brexiters kicking and screaming, to accept that after Brexit the UK will continue to follow EU regulations for goods and agriculture - in order to minimise economically damaging border checks.
But the distinction between goods and services is a fuzzy one. Most sophisticated manufacturers make most of their money from after-sales service. So there is a push from the Chancellor and Business Secretary to broaden her plan to - in effect - keep the UK in the EU’s single market for goods such that some or all services also fall inside this regulatory net. Which some would say is putting the UK’s economic interests first, because 80% of the economy is services. But the Brexiters argue, plausibly, there is little point leaving the EU if we don’t obtain the ability to set own business rules for at least 80% of the economy.

This is a resigning issue for some members of the cabinet. Sorry if you are stifling a yawn.

2. How long before we are fully out of the EU?

You might conclude, on the basis of what you’ve just read, that we’ll always be intimately linked to the EU - that what the cabinet is really arguing about is degrees of separation. That is correct. But the UK is not physically ready - in terms of new procedures and infrastructure for checking goods even minimally at borders - for any kind of Brexit end-state that is short of full membership of the single market and customs union. And the PM is crystal clear the UK will not remain full members of the single market or customs union.
Now, the taxman, HMRC, and port operators are deeply sceptical that the UK will be Brexit-ready even by the end of the transition or implementation period on 31 December 2020 that has been agreed with the EU. So ministers like the Chancellor and Business Secretary see the
last day of 2020 as a precipitous cliff edge for businesses and UK prosperity - and would want a gentler, longer glide path to whatever our long term trading and customs arrangements turn out to be.

Per contra, for the Brexiter foreign secretary, environment secretary and trade secretary, a gentler glide path to full Brexit looks like a airplane that will never land - it would be limbo, the UK never achieving true Brexit. So again, this is a controversy dividing Brexiters and Remainers in the way that Luther’s 95 Theses cleaved Christendom - it is all about faith and interpretation of the scriptures.

Little wonder therefore that Dyer probably spoke for millions when asking whether anyone has a Scooby Doo about Brexit. Because for most of us, Brexit is not a matter of religion but of practical questions about what might actually minimise economic disruption and work for Britain.

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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 6:43 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
Morning.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/european- ... eal-2018-6

Quote:
The EU will reject Theresa May's single market for goods Brexit proposal


It's not actually difficult to see this from the EU's point of view and understand why they can't allow the UK to cherry pick. So why is the UK wasting time chasing rainbows?
Is something catastrophic going to happen soon? Is there a meteor finding it's way to our planet? Are we in a no-solution death-spiral either intentionally caused or indirectly caused? Is our ship going down? Has another species taken over and our overlords are playing with us?

Leadership say bizarre things and wander down unaccountable dead-ends.

What the hell is going on?


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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 6:44 pm 
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Good-evening, everyone


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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 7:26 pm 
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frog222 wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Both did, yes - though Corbyn's support for a European referendum goes back a fair bit further than that.

Thanks . Not very wise of him , as we are seeing .
Referendums can be conducted in a responsible way. The UK's 2016 EU referendum has no legal provision inside the Bill instructing government To Do following the vote.
Dave Cameron's word (!) and a leaflet
Dave Cameron broke his word and resigned
the leaflet is non-binding


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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 8:01 pm 
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Has anyone ever actually asked David Cameron why he chose not to require a super majority to leave the EU?

I mean, we all know why, because he was too weak to face down the Eurosceptics, but was he ever put on the spot to come up with a reason which wasn't so pathetically weak and self-serving.

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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 8:25 pm 
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Four local council byelections this week:

Leicestershire - Tory hold with nearly 60 per cent of the vote, a small increase on last year (which was the first election on the present boundaries, but this area has been safe for them going back some time before that) Labour remained second, but had a small drop to dip below 20% - doing even worse than 2017's poor set of election may be in large part explicable by their candidate (for whatever reason) being based several miles away from this division. LibDems put on 5% and almost doubled their poll, Greens were leapfrogged by them and fell back slightly - but still got double the score of last placed UKIP, whose less than 4% was a further decline from their already low levels a year ago.

North Devon DC - though pedants will insist there can be no such thing (each candidate thus designated being "sui generis") this was in effect an Independent hold, and a decisive one with over half the vote - a further advance on 2015 when Indies took both seats in this ward, it was also up on the previous by-election they won in 2011 (after gaining both seats from the Tories earlier that year, thus reverting things to 2003 when there was another Indy clean sweep) UKIP polled second last time round, but even their absence - whilst enough to give the Tories a healthy vote increase - did not get them close. LibDems, who managed second here in 2007 but did not stand after the May '11 elections until now, scored 10% - about double that of Labour who were standing for the first time this millennium. Greens last with less than 2%, compared with over 10% three years ago.

North Kesteven DC - two vacancies here but with rather different results; the first saw a Tory hold with almost exactly half the vote in a ward with a variable history since it was created for the 2007 elections here - then it split 1C/1LD, before an Independent took the LibDems seat n 2011. In 2015 it split between the Tories and the localist Lincolnshire Independents, before the LincsInd candidate stood down very quickly and the Tories took their seat in the previous byelection in the summer of 2015 to finally get a "full house" here which they easily retained now. The last regular election was a Con/LincsInd straight fight and compared with that the Tories were down somewhat and the Lincs Ind significantly - they also fell slightly compared to the byelection which (as now) Labour and the LibDems also contested, Labour finished just behind in third with 22% (little changed on the previous vacancy) whilst the LibDems improved a bit to nearly 6%. The other contest saw a Lincolnshire Independent "gain" from the regular Independents - who had returned two members here in every election since 2003 (only on GE day in 2015 did the Tories get even vaguely close) and their 45% winning share was similar to what the Indies got 3 years ago. Tories dropped back somewhat despite having some UKIP votes from last time to harvest, whilst Labour scored 17% in their first showing here this century and the LibDems on 11% were modestly up on before.

Three contests to kick off July.


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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 8:50 pm 
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Thanks Anatoly

And if I may take the opportunity thanks also to TheSkysGoneOut for his now equally unmissable weekly Question Time roundups.

Both essential reading :-)


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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 9:20 pm 
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In the attempted enforced binary World at whatever level or context questioning/accepting or refusing to live you life according to is absolutely essential IMHO.

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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 9:24 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
Has anyone ever actually asked David Cameron why he chose not to require a super majority to leave the EU?

I mean, we all know why, because he was too weak to face down the Eurosceptics, but was he ever put on the spot to come up with a reason which wasn't so pathetically weak and self-serving.

That's what has been bugging me ever since, nobody considered the really extreme case of a

50% PLUS ONE VOTE situation .


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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 9:26 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Thanks Anatoly

And if I may take the opportunity thanks also to TheSkysGoneOut for his now equally unmissable weekly Question Time roundups.

Both essential reading :-)


Much enjoyed here too . (No TV which saves time ! ) Interesting what he had to say about Clive Lewis .


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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 9:30 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
Has anyone ever actually asked David Cameron why he chose not to require a super majority to leave the EU?

I mean, we all know why, because he was too weak to face down the Eurosceptics, but was he ever put on the spot to come up with a reason which wasn't so pathetically weak and self-serving.

Forgive me for not getting back here sooner, I've had some protein and rest so I'm better able to follow
I've been going through Hansard
MPs speeches and interventions recorded during the recent EU Referendum stages are interesting as hell
I'd prefer the safety of a historical volume well-written, accurate and readable
We all banter back and forth, healthy, housed, living and comfortable


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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 9:43 pm 
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frog222 wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
Has anyone ever actually asked David Cameron why he chose not to require a super majority to leave the EU?

I mean, we all know why, because he was too weak to face down the Eurosceptics, but was he ever put on the spot to come up with a reason which wasn't so pathetically weak and self-serving.

That's what has been bugging me ever since, nobody considered the really extreme case of a

50% PLUS ONE VOTE situation .

Tory government didn't bother enfranchising those citizens outside the UK or younger people
Quote:
Jeremy Corbyn

"No, I am not going to give way.

We have no objection to reviewing the franchise with regard to overseas citizens, but I hope the Government will take this point seriously and will be minded not only to look at those who have lived abroad for several decades, but to look at 16 and 17-year-olds in this country—old enough to marry, old enough to work, old enough to join the Army and rightly allowed to vote in the Scottish referendum, but not able to vote in our elections.

There is something perverse in a Government enfranchising thousands of people who have not lived in Britain for years when they are disfranchising hundreds of thousands of British residents through their individual voter registration plan. That is why, as part of the EU referendum campaign, many of us are spending a lot of time encouraging young people to ensure that they are registered to vote. It is their future that is at stake."

House of Commons Hansard
Debate on the Address
18 May 2016
Volume 611


https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2 ... DE3F17B23A

Read the lot, it's better than what gets released in most media


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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 9:47 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
Has anyone ever actually asked David Cameron why he chose not to require a super majority to leave the EU?

I mean, we all know why, because he was too weak to face down the Eurosceptics, but was he ever put on the spot to come up with a reason which wasn't so pathetically weak and self-serving.
Someone told him super majorities are for sissies
He liked breezing through speeches, legislation, debates, committees and work
Cameron dines well
That's all


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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 9:51 pm 
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Citizen 9.30pm -- I haven't lived in the UK for forty years, but could still get screwed if the French government were to be as evil and petty-minded as the English one .

('English' deliberately ! )


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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 9:57 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
In the attempted enforced binary World at whatever level or context questioning/accepting or refusing to live you life according to is absolutely essential IMHO.
Yep
It's hard
family, housing, citizenship, pension, healthcare, employment
It's a tough time, this is personal for millions of people


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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 10:01 pm 
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You lot can go on about whatever you want, I don't care, I have ice cream.

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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 10:06 pm 
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frog222 wrote:
Citizen 9.30pm -- I haven't lived in the UK for forty years, but could still get screwed if the French government were to be as evil and petty-minded as the English one .

('English' deliberately ! )
A volunteer school crossing guard (a retired police officer) spoke with me after months of school crossings
He said I'd get along well in my life because day after day he'd seen and heard me talking and walking home with those alone without anyone else to walk and talk with
I said it's not me, I'm the one alone, it's others befriending me
He laughed loudly


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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 10:06 pm 
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adam wrote:
You lot can go on about whatever you want, I don't care, I have ice cream.

I love ice cream


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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 10:07 pm 
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Goodnight, everyone
love,
cJA


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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 10:08 pm 
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citizenJA wrote:
adam wrote:
You lot can go on about whatever you want, I don't care, I have ice cream.

I love ice cream

It's mascarpone and biscuit ice cream with blackcurrant sorbet.

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PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 10:48 pm 
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There’s posh.

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