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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 7:25 am 
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Morning

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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 7:27 am 
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Slept in own bed overnight,a rare occurence of late but welcome.

Titter ye not

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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 7:32 am 
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Chuckled . R4's Toady had Grayling on ... but not JR-Mogg which I had been at least half-expecting !


EDIT Spoke too soon, the little shit is on now :-)


EDIT 2 Switched him off to take a call, which I’d probably have done at any rate.

Then to another arch-brexiteer on “banning knobbly potatoes, favouring toxic diesel cars, mass migration , rule-taking, all becos of Yurope”

Richard North's point in a yesterday link was that the bbc, particularly toady/wato, cheapen the debate to personalities and punchlines holds !


Last edited by frog222 on Sat 07 Jul, 2018 8:10 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 7:36 am 
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https://www.gov.uk/government/news/pm-w ... -july-2018



Press release

PM words following Chequers: 6 July 2018


Weird phrasing to me and I should know.

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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 7:38 am 
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https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... t-chequers

Policy paper

Government statement following Cabinet away day at Chequers

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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 7:48 am 
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https://www.health.org.uk/news/health-f ... -interface


Health Foundation response to NAO's report on the health and social care interface

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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 8:16 am 
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Good corrective news from the constitutional court on the difference betweeen people-smuggling and volunteer activity —

“”French law covering the entry of foreigners and right to asylum states that anyone aiding “the unlawful entry, movement, or stay of a foreigner in France” is liable to face up to five years in prison and a fine of up to €30,000 (£26,500).

However, it grants immunity to anyone who offers such help to a foreigner without receiving anything, such as money, in return. The court said the words “unlawful stay” should be removed to ensure that the principle of fraternity extends to those in France both legally and illegally“”


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 35771.html


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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 8:57 am 
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Convoluted stuff on trade -- shurely easier to stay where we are :-)

Robert Peston

@Peston
Eccentric in government’s Brexit statement is disclosure it wishes UK to join Trans Pacific Partnership - Asian/Oz trade deal hated by Trump and from which he removed US. Makes UK trade deal with US harder, just days before Trump arrives

https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1015334225673846786


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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 9:22 am 
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Sky News sums up yesterday's pantomime:

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/chequers ... ssion=true

Quote:
Chequers mate? Brexiteers rely on EU rejecting PM's 'win'


We now await the EU's response:

Quote:
Do they split the difference and pay lip service to a magical Europe-wide tariff refund IT system in a few years? Or do they undo the PM's impressive manoeuvres with outright rejection?


I think this is where behind the scenes diplomacy comes in. Not something we naturally associate with May, but she did manage to get European allies to rally round over the Skripal poisoning and a UK position that offers to tie us to European agricultural standards and thus freeze out US competition in our large consumer market is a direction the EU will be keen to build on. We'll have to accept freedom of movement of people, but will the EU be willing to give it a different name more easily sellable to the British public?

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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 9:57 am 
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Willow904 wrote:
Sky News sums up yesterday's pantomime:

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/chequers ... ssion=true

Quote:
Chequers mate? Brexiteers rely on EU rejecting PM's 'win'


We now await the EU's response:

Quote:
Do they split the difference and pay lip service to a magical Europe-wide tariff refund IT system in a few years? Or do they undo the PM's impressive manoeuvres with outright rejection?


I think this is where behind the scenes diplomacy comes in. Not something we naturally associate with May, but she did manage to get European allies to rally round over the Skripal poisoning and a UK position that offers to tie us to European agricultural standards and thus freeze out US competition in our large consumer market is a direction the EU will be keen to build on. We'll have to accept freedom of movement of people, but will the EU be willing to give it a different name more easily sellable to the British public?


Thanks willow, good article

“” As I have written before this will take years, and perhaps several years.

In the interim we will de facto stay in both the customs union and the single market. The document talks of a flexible phased introduction.

This is almost exactly the same as the new customs partnership that was decried as “crazy” by the foreign secretary – yet he has signed up to it.

The gravitational pull on any future government not to change tariffs will be strong, but the UK parliament will have the power to change them.

Britain will have taken back some control, but in other senses (directly influencing the EU rules) have lost it.

Brexiteer backbenchers were restrained immediately, but anger is brewing. “As bad as I feared,” said one.

A despondent Brexiteer MP said he was “deeply disappointed, this is associate membership of the EU, we haven’t worked so hard all these years for this”.

One very pro-Brexit junior minister told me: “If this was the final deal, then I could probably live with it as a necessary compromise. But EU will never accept it (cherry picking, four freedoms indivisible etc), so what happens next?”””
cont

Fascinating times ... now for the reply from those forriners :-)


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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 10:02 am 
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'Fascinating' is one word for it, I suppose.

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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 10:18 am 
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https://www.gov.uk/government/news/gove ... house-body


Press release

Government announces new Northern Powerhouse body

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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 10:18 am 
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gilsey wrote:
'Fascinating' is one word for it, I suppose.


The question is whether businesses voicing their concerns has pushed the government into pursuing soft Brexit or whether they were given the signal to voice their concerns so May could push her cabinet into soft Brexit!

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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 10:20 am 
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http://ukandeu.ac.uk/theresa-mays-c-r-a-p-brexit/


Theresa May’s C.R.A.P. Brexit

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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 10:30 am 
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https://mainlymacro.blogspot.com/2018/0 ... -case.html


Islamophobia and Antisemitism: a case study in BBC bias

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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 10:32 am 
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"The Conservatives’ Islamophobia problem is a much bigger issue for two reasons. First, the senior Conservative Sajid Javid has attacked the MCB for harbouring members with unacceptable views on extremism and not representing Muslims. In contrast Labour leaders have not attacked the Jewish organisations in the same way (by saying, for example, that their views come from a pro-Israel stance), and have met directly with them. Whatever the truth of Javid’s claim about extremism, the charge that they are unrepresentative is rather undermined by an organisation affiliated to the Conservative party, the Conservative Muslim Forum, also calling for an inquiry."

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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 10:42 am 
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HindleA wrote:
https://mainlymacro.blogspot.com/2018/07/islamophobia-and-antisemitism-case.html


Islamophobia and Antisemitism: a case study in BBC bias


He has been on a roll for a while now, he really does get the present institutional Beeb mindset spot on.


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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 10:47 am 
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If Theresa May is putting jobs first while still trying to deliver "sovereignty" (always imaginary) and end free movement of people (still probably impossible) does this mean she is now occupying Labour territory? Genuine question as I have never been clear exactly what the Labour position is as articulated by Corbyn (Starmer I have always found clear, particularly on single market during transition and possibly permanently, but he often seems contradicted by what Corbyn says).

I guess I'm wondering what Labour's response will be. Will they welcome this move towards softer Brexit territory? I know I do in theory, if not really trusting it will pan out in practice, as May is still going to have to bend quite a bit to reach agreement with the EU. But will Labour?

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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 10:53 am 
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To admittedly simplify, Starmer decides Labour policy on Brexit - not Corbyn (the latter has arranged it that way and seems generally happy with it)


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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 11:06 am 
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Is successful damage control on the horizon , at long last ?

Will Labour quibble unnecessarily ?


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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 11:13 am 
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HindleA wrote:
http://ukandeu.ac.uk/theresa-mays-c-r-a-p-brexit/


Theresa May’s C.R.A.P. Brexit


A month old, still applies .

"" So, rather than a “temporary customs arrangement”, then, what we’re actually looking at is—as it was originally described by government sources—a Customs and Regulatory Alignment Period (Indefinite). We remain, effectively, in the EU for customs and for much of the Single Market—but not for services or for the free movement of persons. Sam Lowe of the Centre for European Reform has described this as the “Jersey option.”

But will the EU27 accept some version of this? The EU’s real, rather than theological, red lines are two-fold (and are entirely understandable and justified from their perspective). First, the UK’s deal outside the EU must be visibly inferior to that it had as a full member. Second, any arrangement that gives the benefits of the Single Market must be subject to the same rules, including governance and enforcement.

Crucially, that doesn’t necessarily rule out a deal along these lines – although it is likely to mean the UK having to make further concessions down the line, including both financial contributions and the central role of the ECJ. But the ball would be in the EU’s court, and it’s not clear that they should simply ignore it or dismiss it out of hand. As Ivan Rogers puts it, this doesn’t look like such a bad deal for them, offering a potentially “good deal for the EU with a major strategic partner”—if, potentially, offering in turn something “too close to membership advantages to a non-member.” "


Damage Limitation !

Allowing 'negotiations' to drift, consciously or not , has allowed somer of public opinion to move, forces to align, and at least some of the brexiteers to have second thoughts when confronted with reality to replace ideological fantasy .


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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 11:19 am 
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frog222 wrote:
Is successful damage control on the horizon , at long last ?

Will Labour quibble unnecessarily ?

I'd say Labour is in a good place.

Starmer can welcome the broad thrust, but focus in on fairness, the "for all" bits of the six tests, for small businesses as well as multinationals, for all regions etc.

This is productive stuff for Labour IMHO, because it is the right thing to do, as well as appealing broadly to the voters it needs.

For example, Labour could very easily threaten to vote down the final deal if it gave preferential access to the SM for the City.


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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 11:26 am 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
frog222 wrote:
Is successful damage control on the horizon , at long last ?

Will Labour quibble unnecessarily ?

I'd say Labour is in a good place.

Starmer can welcome the broad thrust, but focus in on fairness, the "for all" bits of the six tests, for small businesses as well as multinationals, for all regions etc.

This is productive stuff for Labour IMHO, because it is the right thing to do, as well as appealing broadly to the voters it needs.

For example, Labour could very easily threaten to vote down the final deal if it gave preferential access to the SM for the City.


Agreed . One other point is that the transfer of consumer and other protection laws is unlikely/impossible before next years supposed deadline date , so a vacuum has to be avoided . Some Tories would love to see them disappear , too ...

That's up Starmer street .


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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 11:28 am 
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frog222 wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
frog222 wrote:
Is successful damage control on the horizon , at long last ?

Will Labour quibble unnecessarily ?

I'd say Labour is in a good place.

Starmer can welcome the broad thrust, but focus in on fairness, the "for all" bits of the six tests, for small businesses as well as multinationals, for all regions etc.

This is productive stuff for Labour IMHO, because it is the right thing to do, as well as appealing broadly to the voters it needs.

For example, Labour could very easily threaten to vote down the final deal if it gave preferential access to the SM for the City.


Agreed . One other point is that the transfer of consumer and other protection laws is unlikely/impossible before next years supposed deadline date , so a vacuum has to be avoided . Some Tories would love to see them disappear , too ...

That's up Starmer street .

Yes. I like "Starmer street" as a concept :-)


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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 11:45 am 
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Morning all.

This pretty much sums up the approach so far...


Quote:
Matthias Eberl
@eberlmat
4h
4 hours ago


More
Ideal scenario

1-Ideas
2-Discussions
3-Draft
4-More ideas
5-Preliminary plan
6-More discussions
7-Better plan
8-Involve experts and affected groups
9-Final tweaks
10-Agreement
11-Workable plan
12-Trigger Article 50

UK

Start with 12
Skip 4-8 and 11
Panic

#Chequers

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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 12:15 pm 
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29 and rising ? High tide, when I now go for a swim and prowl, see some grandsons, and then escape home to the country and my very shady lawn .

It’s raised up about a metre, the trees are c10m, and any breeze finds me !

Perfick !


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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 12:28 pm 
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"prowl?"

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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 12:30 pm 
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https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/ ... es-aged-90

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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 12:40 pm 
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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... compromise

Not a bad piece. I like some of the quotes :lol:
Quote:
A lot of fudge with a cherry on top

Quote:
A goulash gets better the more it is recooked, I am not sure about whether the customs proposals share the same quality


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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 1:13 pm 
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Quote:
But I will certainly stick to the Conservative’s manifesto commitments and will not vote for something that doesn’t deliver Brexit.

Rees-Mogg on his plans for that final meaningful vote.

Oh...

:twisted:


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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 3:38 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Quote:
But I will certainly stick to the Conservative’s manifesto commitments and will not vote for something that doesn’t deliver Brexit.

Rees-Mogg on his plans for that final meaningful vote.

Oh...:twisted:


He's sounding more and more like a stuck record , for those who remember vinyl . Which is all to the good!

I particularly enjoyed this morning's Toady , and the "knobbly potatoes" attack on the EU .

Let us hear more, much more, about straight bananas .


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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 3:54 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
"prowl?"


Here's something in English !

""The exercise began gaining momentum in 2005 after Thomas Wallyn, a coach at a rowing club, set it up to help train his rowers.

The Opale Longe-côte Association was set up in 2007, which brought the exercise to a wider audience.

Longe-côte is made up of walking, and performing static exercises, in the sea, with the water up to waist level.

It is believed that the water cushions the joints, so patrons get the benefits of doing the exercise without the joint damage associated with running.

Longe-côte is very popular In France, with the first aquatic hiking trail the blue path of the unicorn, opened in April 2009.""


http://www.falmouthpacket.co.uk/news/15 ... ise_class/

I have an ex-hemiplegic side where the leg muscles are still only about half-strength, and walking in the sea helps a lot with that and also hips, new knee ...

I started with a group but now mostly alone .


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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 4:14 pm 
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First semi final since 1990, then.


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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 4:27 pm 
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:-) !


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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 4:31 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
First semi final since 1990, then.


Just saw the highlights from that...and the free kick that looped off the wall to beat Shilton.

Shocked that it's 28 years ago...

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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 4:41 pm 
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I was working that evening but managed to "find" a TV to sporadically watch and "necessary paperwork" for extra time/penalties I will be working on Wednesday,similar avoiding work tactics are in preparation.

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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 4:47 pm 
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Too young to recall '66 but don't think I was working.

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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 4:53 pm 
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No pause button in life but yeah,does seem to be on fast forward.

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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 4:55 pm 
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With some things on eternal loop

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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 5:02 pm 
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Usual "bloody football" / "I hardly watch it" discrepancy mum/dad thing.

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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 5:20 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
Too young to recall '66 but don't think I was working.


I must ask my brother (3 years older) about 66 when I next see him but I don't remember any of it - not even the final.

My dad was never that interested in football anyway but I think we were on holiday in IoW at the time - first 2 weeks of the school holiday. Not even sure there was a TV in the rented house we used.

Now 1970...think I watched all of that.

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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 5:31 pm 
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Still have this


https://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/Book ... ortby%3D20

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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 5:42 pm 
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In Cyprus at the time,playing football barefoot in the sand,I was the "Pele" of the future,my feet are still like leather and the barefoot still retains,unfortunately nobody ever saw the potential,fools.

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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 5:45 pm 
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Still time...

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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 5:48 pm 
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England won the WC a few months before I was born (and exactly a week after my parents got married)

Winning it again a few months after my old man passed away would be a sort of symmetry, I suppose :?


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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 10:04 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
England won the WC a few months before I was born (and exactly a week after my parents got married)

Winning it again a few months after my old man passed away would be a sort of symmetry, I suppose :?


There's a lovely thing. When our eldest was born we were on the ward with a woman who had just had a baby whilst her grandfather had just died on another ward in the hospital - sometimes things just feel right.

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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 10:10 pm 
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I'm sure I'm guilty of changing my focus, or emphasis, or line of attack on this on a regular basis, and I'm also - hands in the air here - guilty of wishing chaotic catastrophe on the government and I'm far from sure that chaotic catastrophe is off the cards yet....


But. This weeks moan... alright, tonight's moan, is the danger we find ourselves in that we might end up with a Labour party, for want of fighting much harder much earlier about how shit the whole thing was in any event but instead throwing their hands in the air with the will of the people, albeit muttering rather than preaching it, will end up saying 'at least we've got to this point' and possibly having to vote in parliament to get 'this point' through, in order to give us something that will make us almost all poorer, will damage our prospects, will bring particular harm on their core constituency and will hearten the fuckers who still seem to think that feudalism is the way forward and, ultimately, will put us in the situation where the lying pieces of shit who moaned about the EU for years, saying we were dictated to and there was no democracy for us and we didn't have any control, will be right. I am very very hesitant to make this kind of statement, and I am still deeply distrustful of polling, but I think it's a reasonable generalisation that nobody voted for this.

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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 10:23 pm 
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Quote:
Britain Elects
‏@britainelects
7m
7 minutes ago


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Westminster voting intention:

LAB: 40% (+2)
CON: 38% (-3)
LDEM: 10% (+3)

via @Survation, 07 Jul


Interesting...

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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 10:28 pm 
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The other way of thinking about this, I suppose, is that thanks to UKIP and the leave campaign we face a massive democratic deficit that we have never had before. They did this. Well done Nigel.

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PostPosted: Sat 07 Jul, 2018 10:35 pm 
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According to the Sunday Times, Boris thinks the latest plan is a turd...wonder how long before others start to break ranks?

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