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 Post subject: Thursday 12th July 2018
PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 5:35 am 
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Morning all.


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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 5:46 am 
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Have to wait until a return of a Labour Government...

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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 5:52 am 
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https://makingrightsmakesense.wordpress ... as-abroad/

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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 7:21 am 
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https://amp.theguardian.com/environment ... carcinogen
'Michael Gove has been accused of “green Brexit hypocrisy” for trying to weaken regulation of a suspected carcinogen found in sun creams, paints and toothpastes, in a proposal seen by the Guardian'


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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 7:23 am 
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https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... hite-paper
"Brexiters plan to force release of David Davis's rival white paper"
Quote:
Backbenchers from the European Research Group (ERG) will table a “humble address” in parliament, demanding that Davis’s draft be made public, as the Conservative party descends into all-out parliamentary warfare over Brexit.


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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 7:57 am 
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tinybgoat wrote:
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/11/brexiters-bid-to-force-release-of-david-davis-rival-white-paper
"Brexiters plan to force release of David Davis's rival white paper"
Quote:
Backbenchers from the European Research Group (ERG) will table a “humble address” in parliament, demanding that Davis’s draft be made public, as the Conservative party descends into all-out parliamentary warfare over Brexit.


Fascinating ! The Opposition is hard at work :-)


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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 7:59 am 
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https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... rexit-deal
Quote:
A flotilla of barges would be sent to the coast of Northern Irelandwith energy generators after Brexit to keep the region’s lights on in the event of no deal, according to reports on Wednesday.

The scheme, which has been described as “potty” by business leaders in Northern Ireland, is said to be part of contingency planning by Whitehall mandarins in case the UK crashes out of the EU, smashing Ireland’s all-island electricity supply in its wake.

Ever ready to float a short term solution, now might be a good time to ask for that extension...
(Obv. Longer term should just build a Boris Bridge, run the cables along it & connect into the Northern Powerhouse)
I was going to say this was project fear, but seeing as it's more blue sky thinking for possible (if unlikely) problems, suppose it needs another name. It's scarier than project fear, because of the potential for leaders to think up & screw up solutions. :?


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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 8:16 am 
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tinybgoat wrote:
https://amp.theguardian.com/environment/2018/jul/11/uk-accused-of-green-brexit-hypocrisy-over-regulation-of-suspected-carcinogen
'Michael Gove has been accused of “green Brexit hypocrisy” for trying to weaken regulation of a suspected carcinogen found in sun creams, paints and toothpastes, in a proposal seen by the Guardian'


The Power of lobbies, and to hell with public health !

It reminded me of this other story over the past few days --

DJT's Fake news accusation is ... fake .

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 5294908421

did-the-u-s-threaten-ecuador-over-a-breastfeeding-resolution ?

https://www.npr.org/2018/07/10/62764753 ... 1382461984


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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 8:29 am 
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From inside the enemy camp:

https://www.conservativehome.com/platfo ... se-it.html

Quote:
Nick Hargrave: A Conservative split is inevitable – the question is how to manage and minimise it

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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 8:58 am 
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Willow 8.29 -- a good piece . He shows such a touching faith in the success of free markets, and the depiction of an alternative labour government as 'extreme' and 'socialist' is of course compulsory !

Only 20° outside , so must now do some gardening before it hots up :-)


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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 9:04 am 
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Morning all.

Two polls...

Quote:
Britain Elects
‏@britainelects
6m
6 minutes ago
More
As leader of the Conservatives, Theresa May should...

Remain: 36% (-6)
Stand down: 43% (+11)

via @YouGov, 10 - 11 Jul
Chgs. w/ 08 Nov



Quote:
The Brexit deal agreed at Chequers is...

Good for Britain: 13% (-1)
Bad for Britain: 42% (+9)

via @YouGov, 10 - 11 Jul
Chgs. w/ 09 Jul


All going swimmingly then...

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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 9:25 am 
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RogerOThornhill wrote:
Quote:
The Brexit deal agreed at Chequers is...
Good for Britain: 13% (-1)
Bad for Britain: 42% (+9)


The Chequers deal isn't going to fly with the EU in any event. If anything it's a step on the way to May convincing her party that there is no alternative to Norway. Of course 'not leaving' is an alternative to Norway that would help us keep positives as well as negatives, but there you go.

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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 10:47 am 
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A lot of don't knows in the latter question.


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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 11:00 am 
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So what happened to the "One resignation a day until the recess"?

Unless someone resigned during the match and everyone missed it.

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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 11:00 am 
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Some interesting stuff from Richard North, over last few days on 'rule taking', basically that although we lose voting rights (& input, depending on brexit end state) on EU rules, in some cases we get a say at a higher level through an independent seat on international bodies.
http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86928
Quote:
For over a decade I have been using the UN Economic Commission Europe (UNECE) as an example of a producer of global standards, illustrating how rule-making has gone up a level, turning the EU into a rule-taker.

Although in the examples he gives, the voting balance gets a bit distorted because the EU vote carrys more weight (block vote). Interesting though.


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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 11:06 am 
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Good morfternoon.

I've just watched Donald Trump's sales pitch for the US arms industry.


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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 11:34 am 
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RogerOThornhill wrote:
So what happened to the "One resignation a day until the recess"?

Unless someone resigned during the match and everyone missed it.


Maybe they recalled how successful such a tactic had been two years ago?

Of course, the possibility is also there that they are all mouth and no trousers. Perish the very thought :D


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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 12:00 pm 
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The white paper is here

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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 12:02 pm 
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Jesus, even May's introduction does it again.

Quote:
It would preserve the UK’s and the EU’s frictionless access to each other’s markets for goods, protecting jobs and livelihoods on both sides, and propose new arrangements for services.
[...]
It would end free movement, taking back control of the UK’s borders.


Free movement means free movement of goods, services, capital and labour.

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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 12:08 pm 
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Good-afternoon, everyone


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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 12:10 pm 
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Re my above post, it is two years ago today that the Labour party was - quite literally - staring into the abyss (the thread here for that day is worth reading)

Thank you to all those who, sometimes after much agonising, took the only rational choice.


Last edited by AnatolyKasparov on Thu 12 Jul, 2018 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 12:10 pm 
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Amongst other amusing things the white paper announces that we're going to continue to be involved in Galileo
Quote:
... and ensure the eligibility for UK entities to compete for all programme contracts on an open and fair basis, including those relating to the Galileo programme’s secure elements

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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 12:12 pm 
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Quote:
The UK has long championed sustainable fishing


*Points and laughs*

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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 12:19 pm 
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Keir Starmer in the Commons via Ian Dunt on twitter:

Quote:
Ian Dunt
Ian Dunt
@IanDunt
"The utter shambles of the last twenty minutes. Normally I would say thanks in advance for the white paper.
1:14 pm · 12 Jul 2018

Ian Dunt
@IanDunt
·
2m
Replying to @IanDunt
"But my first Q is why the sec of state thought it appropriate to share it this morning with journalists and only provide the opposition with a copy three hours later."

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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 12:28 pm 
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https://mobile.twitter.com/carlgardner/ ... 0279491585

Quote:
Carl Gardner
@carlgardner
Whoah! This, on the future security relationship: "the UK is committed to membership of the ECHR". That will seriously hurt many Tory MPs.

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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 12:36 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
Keir Starmer in the Commons via Ian Dunt on twitter:

Quote:
Ian Dunt
Ian Dunt
@IanDunt
"The utter shambles of the last twenty minutes. Normally I would say thanks in advance for the white paper.
1:14 pm · 12 Jul 2018

Ian Dunt
@IanDunt
·
2m
Replying to @IanDunt
"But my first Q is why the sec of state thought it appropriate to share it this morning with journalists and only provide the opposition with a copy three hours later."
Bercow angry about it


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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 12:46 pm 
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Quote:
James Patrick
‏@J_amesp
2h
2 hours ago

More
So, there we have it. As predicted Trump has threatened NATO with a US exit by January 2019. That’s Putin’s #AlternativeWar in action. A masterpiece.


Good job we're not thinking of abandoning our European allies and going it alone then...oh...

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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 12:47 pm 
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https://socialcarefuture.blog/2018/07/1 ... n-centred/

Turbocharged Integration’: how can we make this person centred?

"there’s little to be gained by having Local Authority and NHS integration, if the front line services who deliver the day to day ‘hands on’ support think that our interactions with them are ‘patronising, officious and condescending’

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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 12:50 pm 
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Eg "vulnerable",my arse.

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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 12:55 pm 
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We are all without exception reliant on others.

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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 12:57 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Re my above post, it is two years ago today that the Labour party was - quite literally - staring into the abyss (the thread here for that day is worth reading)

Thank you to all those who, sometimes after much agonising, took the only rational choice.

Ah yes the fictitious "brick".


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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 1:05 pm 
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Trump still needs congressional backing for any such move. Can he be sure of it, even with the present GOP majority?


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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 1:10 pm 
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Good grief, Charles Moore and Piers Morgan both on QT tonight?

Steer well clear of that...

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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 1:15 pm 
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M.R. James wrote:
... it is not so evident what more the creature that came in answer to the whistle could have done than frighten. There seemed to be absolutely nothing material about it save the bedclothes of which it had made itself a body. The Colonel, who remembered a not very dissimilar occurrence in India, was of the opinion that if Parkins had closed with it it could really have done very little, and that its one power was that of frightening.

'Oh, Whistle, and I'll Come to You, My Lad'
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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 1:23 pm 
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Conservative Home is now saying it is publishing 'key extracts from an alternative white paper' - here.

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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 1:24 pm 
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Lost for words on this one... #BorisJohnson - Nazanin Zadari decision was imminent. Hope this is top of #JeremyHunt in tray

https://twitter.com/maitlis/status/1017357230142877696

He had more important business to attend to ...


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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 1:44 pm 
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Apparently, Donald Trump can only visit people who have very big back gardens (big enough for a helicopter to land) since he's having to go everywhere in a helicopter to avoid protesters.

frog222 - put the kettle on - you could be in for a treat! (Well, if you weren't in France. But it must, nevertheless, be a worry.)


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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 1:48 pm 
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Here we go again -

Quote:
Raab suggests UK will stop its £39bn payment to EU if Brussels stalls on trade talks after Brexit

Raab says, if the government found that, having agreed the withdrawal agreement, progress towards a trade deal slowed down, there would be consequences, including to UK’s payments to the EU.

Raab suggests UK will stop its £39bn payment to the EU if Brussels stalls on trade talks after Brexit.

This is new. At a committee hearing earlier this year, Suella Braverman, the junior Brexit minister, said the £39bn payment was unconditional; there was nothing in the withdrawal agreement that would guarantee a good trade deal would have to follow, she conceded. (Politics Live, Guardian)


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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 1:52 pm 
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https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... are_btn_tw

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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 2:01 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
Here we go again -

Quote:
Raab suggests UK will stop its £39bn payment to EU if Brussels stalls on trade talks after Brexit

Raab says, if the government found that, having agreed the withdrawal agreement, progress towards a trade deal slowed down, there would be consequences, including to UK’s payments to the EU.

Raab suggests UK will stop its £39bn payment to the EU if Brussels stalls on trade talks after Brexit.

This is new. At a committee hearing earlier this year, Suella Braverman, the junior Brexit minister, said the £39bn payment was unconditional; there was nothing in the withdrawal agreement that would guarantee a good trade deal would have to follow, she conceded. (Politics Live, Guardian)


No deal looks a lot more likely again. Followed by being sued for what we owe under the current budget and its future undisputed obligations.

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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 2:28 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
Apparently, Donald Trump can only visit people who have very big back gardens (big enough for a helicopter to land) since he's having to go everywhere in a helicopter to avoid protesters.

frog222 - put the kettle on - you could be in for a treat! (Well, if you weren't in France. But it must, nevertheless, be a worry.)


BRUSSELS (The Borowitz Report)— "" The German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, took a break from the nato summit in Brussels on Wednesday to ask the independent counsel, Robert Mueller, if there is anything she can do to help.

According to those familiar with the phone conversation, Merkel told Mueller that she would take a leave of absence as leader of the German government and move to Washington to work full-time for Mueller “if that would be of assistance.”

Touting her credentials, Merkel told Mueller that she was fluent in Russian and could be helpful in translating the thousands of Russian-language documents that the special counsel has in his collection of evidence.

“I will work for free and pay my for my own food,” Merkel said. “I just want to make this stop.”

Mueller reportedly thanked Merkel for her offer but told her he had to wrap up their conversation because he had “Emmanuel Macron on the other line.” ""


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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 2:33 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
Here we go again -

Quote:
Raab suggests UK will stop its £39bn payment to EU if Brussels stalls on trade talks after Brexit

Raab says, if the government found that, having agreed the withdrawal agreement, progress towards a trade deal slowed down, there would be consequences, including to UK’s payments to the EU.

Raab suggests UK will stop its £39bn payment to the EU if Brussels stalls on trade talks after Brexit.

This is new. At a committee hearing earlier this year, Suella Braverman, the junior Brexit minister, said the £39bn payment was unconditional; there was nothing in the withdrawal agreement that would guarantee a good trade deal would have to follow, she conceded. (Politics Live, Guardian)


They are behaving like a load of Trumps .

The Ian Dunt tweets on Raab are very revealing ...


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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 2:48 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/12/esther-mcvey-tory-soap-opera-brexit?CMP=share_btn_tw

"" The new additions to May’s cabinet do not exactly suggest the cavalry have arrived. The new Brexit secretary, Dominic Raab, is on record as saying that people forced to go to food banks simply have “cash flow problems”, as well calling feminists “obnoxious bigots”.

The new housing minister, Kit Malthouse, the eighth to take on the role since 2010, was quoted in The Mirror this week as openly admitting he made life “uncomfortable” for homeless people as part of a “zero-tolerance crackdown” as deputy leader of Westminster council – a crackdown described by one critic as “hosing [the homeless] out of doorways”. That’s a man running the housing brief who appears to have a disdain for people without a home.""


The Even Nastier Party -- quite a legacy !


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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 3:11 pm 
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Why are we footing the bill for the security around Donald Trump's golfing excursion (to his own golf course\s to boot)? Doesn't seem, on present evidence, to have anything to do with state business.


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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 3:13 pm 
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adam wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
Here we go again -

Quote:
Raab suggests UK will stop its £39bn payment to EU if Brussels stalls on trade talks after Brexit

Raab says, if the government found that, having agreed the withdrawal agreement, progress towards a trade deal slowed down, there would be consequences, including to UK’s payments to the EU.

Raab suggests UK will stop its £39bn payment to the EU if Brussels stalls on trade talks after Brexit.

This is new. At a committee hearing earlier this year, Suella Braverman, the junior Brexit minister, said the £39bn payment was unconditional; there was nothing in the withdrawal agreement that would guarantee a good trade deal would have to follow, she conceded. (Politics Live, Guardian)


No deal looks a lot more likely again


I really doubt if anything Raab says is going to make much difference there.


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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 3:19 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
Why are we footing the bill for the security around Donald Trump's golfing excursion (to his own golf course\s to boot)? Doesn't seem, on present evidence, to have anything to do with state business.
The powerful want to know how much regular people will tolerate before we don't.


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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 3:21 pm 
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frog222 wrote:
---
BRUSSELS (The Borowitz Report)— "" The German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, took a break from the nato summit in Brussels on Wednesday to ask the independent counsel, Robert Mueller, if there is anything she can do to help.

According to those familiar with the phone conversation, Merkel told Mueller that she would take a leave of absence as leader of the German government and move to Washington to work full-time for Mueller “if that would be of assistance.”

Touting her credentials, Merkel told Mueller that she was fluent in Russian and could be helpful in translating the thousands of Russian-language documents that the special counsel has in his collection of evidence.

“I will work for free and pay my for my own food,” Merkel said. “I just want to make this stop.”

Mueller reportedly thanked Merkel for her offer but told her he had to wrap up their conversation because he had “Emmanuel Macron on the other line.” ""
(cJA edit)
oh, it's satire


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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 3:45 pm 
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Hehe ! Spring tide, off for a soak ....


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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 3:49 pm 
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Good thread about the white paper.

https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status ... 1075550208

Quote:
David Henig


@DavidHenigUK
2h2 hours ago
More
Postscript 3: Initial reflection an hour on. This feels like a load of random stuff from different trade agreements and other relationships stuck together. It's what a UK-EU agreement designed by an inexpert committee might look like

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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2018 4:02 pm 
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Great posts today thanks all :-)

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