Thursday 12th July 2018

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refitman
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Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by refitman »

Morning all.
HindleA
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by HindleA »

Have to wait until a return of a Labour Government...
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by HindleA »

https://makingrightsmakesense.wordpress ... as-abroad/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
tinybgoat
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by tinybgoat »

https://amp.theguardian.com/environment ... carcinogen" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
'Michael Gove has been accused of “green Brexit hypocrisy” for trying to weaken regulation of a suspected carcinogen found in sun creams, paints and toothpastes, in a proposal seen by the Guardian'
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by tinybgoat »

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... hite-paper" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Brexiters plan to force release of David Davis's rival white paper"
Backbenchers from the European Research Group (ERG) will table a “humble address” in parliament, demanding that Davis’s draft be made public, as the Conservative party descends into all-out parliamentary warfare over Brexit.
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by frog222 »

tinybgoat wrote:https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... hite-paper
"Brexiters plan to force release of David Davis's rival white paper"
Backbenchers from the European Research Group (ERG) will table a “humble address” in parliament, demanding that Davis’s draft be made public, as the Conservative party descends into all-out parliamentary warfare over Brexit.
Fascinating ! The Opposition is hard at work :-)
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by tinybgoat »

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... rexit-deal" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
A flotilla of barges would be sent to the coast of Northern Irelandwith energy generators after Brexit to keep the region’s lights on in the event of no deal, according to reports on Wednesday.

The scheme, which has been described as “potty” by business leaders in Northern Ireland, is said to be part of contingency planning by Whitehall mandarins in case the UK crashes out of the EU, smashing Ireland’s all-island electricity supply in its wake.
Ever ready to float a short term solution, now might be a good time to ask for that extension...
(Obv. Longer term should just build a Boris Bridge, run the cables along it & connect into the Northern Powerhouse)
I was going to say this was project fear, but seeing as it's more blue sky thinking for possible (if unlikely) problems, suppose it needs another name. It's scarier than project fear, because of the potential for leaders to think up & screw up solutions. :?
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by frog222 »

tinybgoat wrote:https://amp.theguardian.com/environment ... carcinogen
'Michael Gove has been accused of “green Brexit hypocrisy” for trying to weaken regulation of a suspected carcinogen found in sun creams, paints and toothpastes, in a proposal seen by the Guardian'
The Power of lobbies, and to hell with public health !

It reminded me of this other story over the past few days --

DJT's Fake news accusation is ... fake .

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

did-the-u-s-threaten-ecuador-over-a-breastfeeding-resolution ?

https://www.npr.org/2018/07/10/62764753 ... 1382461984" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Willow904
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by Willow904 »

From inside the enemy camp:

https://www.conservativehome.com/platfo ... se-it.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Nick Hargrave: A Conservative split is inevitable – the question is how to manage and minimise it
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by frog222 »

Willow 8.29 -- a good piece . He shows such a touching faith in the success of free markets, and the depiction of an alternative labour government as 'extreme' and 'socialist' is of course compulsory !

Only 20° outside , so must now do some gardening before it hots up :-)
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Morning all.

Two polls...
Britain Elects
‏@britainelects
6m
6 minutes ago
More
As leader of the Conservatives, Theresa May should...

Remain: 36% (-6)
Stand down: 43% (+11)

via @YouGov, 10 - 11 Jul
Chgs. w/ 08 Nov
The Brexit deal agreed at Chequers is...

Good for Britain: 13% (-1)
Bad for Britain: 42% (+9)

via @YouGov, 10 - 11 Jul
Chgs. w/ 09 Jul
All going swimmingly then...
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adam
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by adam »

RogerOThornhill wrote:
The Brexit deal agreed at Chequers is...
Good for Britain: 13% (-1)
Bad for Britain: 42% (+9)
The Chequers deal isn't going to fly with the EU in any event. If anything it's a step on the way to May convincing her party that there is no alternative to Norway. Of course 'not leaving' is an alternative to Norway that would help us keep positives as well as negatives, but there you go.
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AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

A lot of don't knows in the latter question.
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by RogerOThornhill »

So what happened to the "One resignation a day until the recess"?

Unless someone resigned during the match and everyone missed it.
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tinybgoat
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by tinybgoat »

Some interesting stuff from Richard North, over last few days on 'rule taking', basically that although we lose voting rights (& input, depending on brexit end state) on EU rules, in some cases we get a say at a higher level through an independent seat on international bodies.
http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86928" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
For over a decade I have been using the UN Economic Commission Europe (UNECE) as an example of a producer of global standards, illustrating how rule-making has gone up a level, turning the EU into a rule-taker.
Although in the examples he gives, the voting balance gets a bit distorted because the EU vote carrys more weight (block vote). Interesting though.
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by PorFavor »

Good morfternoon.

I've just watched Donald Trump's sales pitch for the US arms industry.
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

RogerOThornhill wrote:So what happened to the "One resignation a day until the recess"?

Unless someone resigned during the match and everyone missed it.
Maybe they recalled how successful such a tactic had been two years ago?

Of course, the possibility is also there that they are all mouth and no trousers. Perish the very thought :D
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adam
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by adam »

The white paper is here
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adam
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by adam »

Jesus, even May's introduction does it again.
It would preserve the UK’s and the EU’s frictionless access to each other’s markets for goods, protecting jobs and livelihoods on both sides, and propose new arrangements for services.
[...]
It would end free movement, taking back control of the UK’s borders.
Free movement means free movement of goods, services, capital and labour.
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citizenJA
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by citizenJA »

Good-afternoon, everyone
AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Re my above post, it is two years ago today that the Labour party was - quite literally - staring into the abyss (the thread here for that day is worth reading)

Thank you to all those who, sometimes after much agonising, took the only rational choice.
Last edited by AnatolyKasparov on Thu 12 Jul, 2018 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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adam
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by adam »

Amongst other amusing things the white paper announces that we're going to continue to be involved in Galileo
... and ensure the eligibility for UK entities to compete for all programme contracts on an open and fair basis, including those relating to the Galileo programme’s secure elements
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adam
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by adam »

The UK has long championed sustainable fishing
*Points and laughs*
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Willow904
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by Willow904 »

Keir Starmer in the Commons via Ian Dunt on twitter:
Ian Dunt
Ian Dunt
@IanDunt
"The utter shambles of the last twenty minutes. Normally I would say thanks in advance for the white paper.
1:14 pm · 12 Jul 2018

Ian Dunt
@IanDunt
·
2m
Replying to @IanDunt
"But my first Q is why the sec of state thought it appropriate to share it this morning with journalists and only provide the opposition with a copy three hours later."
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Willow904
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by Willow904 »

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Carl Gardner
@carlgardner
Whoah! This, on the future security relationship: "the UK is committed to membership of the ECHR". That will seriously hurt many Tory MPs.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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citizenJA
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by citizenJA »

Willow904 wrote:Keir Starmer in the Commons via Ian Dunt on twitter:
Ian Dunt
Ian Dunt
@IanDunt
"The utter shambles of the last twenty minutes. Normally I would say thanks in advance for the white paper.
1:14 pm · 12 Jul 2018

Ian Dunt
@IanDunt
·
2m
Replying to @IanDunt
"But my first Q is why the sec of state thought it appropriate to share it this morning with journalists and only provide the opposition with a copy three hours later."
Bercow angry about it
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by RogerOThornhill »

James Patrick
‏@J_amesp
2h
2 hours ago

More
So, there we have it. As predicted Trump has threatened NATO with a US exit by January 2019. That’s Putin’s #AlternativeWar in action. A masterpiece.
Good job we're not thinking of abandoning our European allies and going it alone then...oh...
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by HindleA »

https://socialcarefuture.blog/2018/07/1 ... n-centred/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Turbocharged Integration’: how can we make this person centred?

"there’s little to be gained by having Local Authority and NHS integration, if the front line services who deliver the day to day ‘hands on’ support think that our interactions with them are ‘patronising, officious and condescending’
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by HindleA »

Eg "vulnerable",my arse.
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by HindleA »

We are all without exception reliant on others.
PaulfromYorkshire
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by PaulfromYorkshire »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Re my above post, it is two years ago today that the Labour party was - quite literally - staring into the abyss (the thread here for that day is worth reading)

Thank you to all those who, sometimes after much agonising, took the only rational choice.
Ah yes the fictitious "brick".
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Trump still needs congressional backing for any such move. Can he be sure of it, even with the present GOP majority?
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Good grief, Charles Moore and Piers Morgan both on QT tonight?

Steer well clear of that...
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by citizenJA »

M.R. James wrote:... it is not so evident what more the creature that came in answer to the whistle could have done than frighten. There seemed to be absolutely nothing material about it save the bedclothes of which it had made itself a body. The Colonel, who remembered a not very dissimilar occurrence in India, was of the opinion that if Parkins had closed with it it could really have done very little, and that its one power was that of frightening.

'Oh, Whistle, and I'll Come to You, My Lad'
1904
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adam
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by adam »

Conservative Home is now saying it is publishing 'key extracts from an alternative white paper' - here.
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frog222
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by frog222 »

Lost for words on this one... #BorisJohnson - Nazanin Zadari decision was imminent. Hope this is top of #JeremyHunt in tray

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He had more important business to attend to ...
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by PorFavor »

Apparently, Donald Trump can only visit people who have very big back gardens (big enough for a helicopter to land) since he's having to go everywhere in a helicopter to avoid protesters.

frog222 - put the kettle on - you could be in for a treat! (Well, if you weren't in France. But it must, nevertheless, be a worry.)
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by PorFavor »

Here we go again -
Raab suggests UK will stop its £39bn payment to EU if Brussels stalls on trade talks after Brexit

Raab says, if the government found that, having agreed the withdrawal agreement, progress towards a trade deal slowed down, there would be consequences, including to UK’s payments to the EU.

Raab suggests UK will stop its £39bn payment to the EU if Brussels stalls on trade talks after Brexit.

This is new. At a committee hearing earlier this year, Suella Braverman, the junior Brexit minister, said the £39bn payment was unconditional; there was nothing in the withdrawal agreement that would guarantee a good trade deal would have to follow, she conceded. (Politics Live, Guardian)
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by HindleA »

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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adam
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by adam »

PorFavor wrote:Here we go again -
Raab suggests UK will stop its £39bn payment to EU if Brussels stalls on trade talks after Brexit

Raab says, if the government found that, having agreed the withdrawal agreement, progress towards a trade deal slowed down, there would be consequences, including to UK’s payments to the EU.

Raab suggests UK will stop its £39bn payment to the EU if Brussels stalls on trade talks after Brexit.

This is new. At a committee hearing earlier this year, Suella Braverman, the junior Brexit minister, said the £39bn payment was unconditional; there was nothing in the withdrawal agreement that would guarantee a good trade deal would have to follow, she conceded. (Politics Live, Guardian)
No deal looks a lot more likely again. Followed by being sued for what we owe under the current budget and its future undisputed obligations.
I still believe in a town called Hope
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by frog222 »

PorFavor wrote:Apparently, Donald Trump can only visit people who have very big back gardens (big enough for a helicopter to land) since he's having to go everywhere in a helicopter to avoid protesters.

frog222 - put the kettle on - you could be in for a treat! (Well, if you weren't in France. But it must, nevertheless, be a worry.)
BRUSSELS (The Borowitz Report)— "" The German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, took a break from the nato summit in Brussels on Wednesday to ask the independent counsel, Robert Mueller, if there is anything she can do to help.

According to those familiar with the phone conversation, Merkel told Mueller that she would take a leave of absence as leader of the German government and move to Washington to work full-time for Mueller “if that would be of assistance.”

Touting her credentials, Merkel told Mueller that she was fluent in Russian and could be helpful in translating the thousands of Russian-language documents that the special counsel has in his collection of evidence.

“I will work for free and pay my for my own food,” Merkel said. “I just want to make this stop.”

Mueller reportedly thanked Merkel for her offer but told her he had to wrap up their conversation because he had “Emmanuel Macron on the other line.” ""
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by frog222 »

PorFavor wrote:Here we go again -
Raab suggests UK will stop its £39bn payment to EU if Brussels stalls on trade talks after Brexit

Raab says, if the government found that, having agreed the withdrawal agreement, progress towards a trade deal slowed down, there would be consequences, including to UK’s payments to the EU.

Raab suggests UK will stop its £39bn payment to the EU if Brussels stalls on trade talks after Brexit.

This is new. At a committee hearing earlier this year, Suella Braverman, the junior Brexit minister, said the £39bn payment was unconditional; there was nothing in the withdrawal agreement that would guarantee a good trade deal would have to follow, she conceded. (Politics Live, Guardian)
They are behaving like a load of Trumps .

The Ian Dunt tweets on Raab are very revealing ...
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by frog222 »

"" The new additions to May’s cabinet do not exactly suggest the cavalry have arrived. The new Brexit secretary, Dominic Raab, is on record as saying that people forced to go to food banks simply have “cash flow problems”, as well calling feminists “obnoxious bigots”.

The new housing minister, Kit Malthouse, the eighth to take on the role since 2010, was quoted in The Mirror this week as openly admitting he made life “uncomfortable” for homeless people as part of a “zero-tolerance crackdown” as deputy leader of Westminster council – a crackdown described by one critic as “hosing [the homeless] out of doorways”. That’s a man running the housing brief who appears to have a disdain for people without a home.""


The Even Nastier Party -- quite a legacy !
PorFavor
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by PorFavor »

Why are we footing the bill for the security around Donald Trump's golfing excursion (to his own golf course\s to boot)? Doesn't seem, on present evidence, to have anything to do with state business.
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

adam wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Here we go again -
Raab suggests UK will stop its £39bn payment to EU if Brussels stalls on trade talks after Brexit

Raab says, if the government found that, having agreed the withdrawal agreement, progress towards a trade deal slowed down, there would be consequences, including to UK’s payments to the EU.

Raab suggests UK will stop its £39bn payment to the EU if Brussels stalls on trade talks after Brexit.

This is new. At a committee hearing earlier this year, Suella Braverman, the junior Brexit minister, said the £39bn payment was unconditional; there was nothing in the withdrawal agreement that would guarantee a good trade deal would have to follow, she conceded. (Politics Live, Guardian)
No deal looks a lot more likely again
I really doubt if anything Raab says is going to make much difference there.
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citizenJA
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by citizenJA »

PorFavor wrote:Why are we footing the bill for the security around Donald Trump's golfing excursion (to his own golf course\s to boot)? Doesn't seem, on present evidence, to have anything to do with state business.
The powerful want to know how much regular people will tolerate before we don't.
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citizenJA
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by citizenJA »

frog222 wrote:---
BRUSSELS (The Borowitz Report)— "" The German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, took a break from the nato summit in Brussels on Wednesday to ask the independent counsel, Robert Mueller, if there is anything she can do to help.

According to those familiar with the phone conversation, Merkel told Mueller that she would take a leave of absence as leader of the German government and move to Washington to work full-time for Mueller “if that would be of assistance.”

Touting her credentials, Merkel told Mueller that she was fluent in Russian and could be helpful in translating the thousands of Russian-language documents that the special counsel has in his collection of evidence.

“I will work for free and pay my for my own food,” Merkel said. “I just want to make this stop.”

Mueller reportedly thanked Merkel for her offer but told her he had to wrap up their conversation because he had “Emmanuel Macron on the other line.” ""
(cJA edit)
oh, it's satire
frog222
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by frog222 »

Hehe ! Spring tide, off for a soak ....
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by gilsey »

Good thread about the white paper.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
David Henig


@DavidHenigUK
2h2 hours ago
More
Postscript 3: Initial reflection an hour on. This feels like a load of random stuff from different trade agreements and other relationships stuck together. It's what a UK-EU agreement designed by an inexpert committee might look like
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PaulfromYorkshire
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Re: Thursday 12th July 2018

Post by PaulfromYorkshire »

Great posts today thanks all :-)

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