Saturday 25th, Sunday 26th & Monday 27th August 2018

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Aug, 2018 4:38 am

.https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sun 26 Aug, 2018 8:15 am

HindleA wrote:.https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

More accuracy here --
John McCain, Legendary Republican Senator, Dead at 81
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... it-627682/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Approved of by Strom Thurmond, and regretting he didn't select Joe Lieberman over Sarah Palin ,
Help

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2018/07/joe- ... ative-left" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Such a disconnect between the public image and the Reality !

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sun 26 Aug, 2018 9:24 am

On R4 early, this is a shocking story, on people knowingly going along with the crowd --

"" Waney Squier was one of the foremost medical experts on the developing brain of infants and babies before their birth. She appeared many times as an expert witness for the prosecution in cases of shaken-baby syndrome. But she changed her mind and decided the evidence now suggests this syndrome does not exist, casting doubt on any explanations for a baby's demise that rest on this theory.

Her change of mind was followed by a complaint from the police that led to her being struck off the medical register. Here she tells her story, and how her change of mind led to professional disaster and personal heartache. ""

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0bf67lw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://onsbs.com/tag/waney-squier/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 26 Aug, 2018 10:21 am

frog222 wrote:
HindleA wrote:.https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
More accuracy here --
John McCain, Legendary Republican Senator, Dead at 81
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... it-627682/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Approved of by Strom Thurmond, and regretting he didn't select Joe Lieberman over Sarah Palin ,
Help
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2018/07/joe- ... ative-left" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Such a disconnect between the public image and the Reality !

To some extent yes, but there were definitely good things to be said for him too. A very interesting man who had a fascinating life. RIP.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 26 Aug, 2018 11:55 am

Re John McCain -

That McCain displayed rare fortitude in the “Hanoi Hilton” was common cause - until Trump mocked him during the 2016 election campaign, telling a conference in Iowa: “He’s not a war hero.” The future president, who avoided the draft five times, added: “He was a war hero because he was captured. I like people that weren’t captured.” (Guardian)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Aug, 2018 12:09 pm

Co sponsor of the Americans with Disabilities Act

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=77722" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

of the most fundamental principles of all is that the presence of a disability should not mean the absence of choice. When the government does its duty by extending aid to Americans with disabilities, it should not do so in a heavy-handed way that restricts personal freedom. I will work to enact legislation that would build on the principles of the Money Follows the Person Initiative, while also keeping my commitment to a responsible budget. The offer of assistance in living with a disability should not come with the condition of perpetual confinement to an institutional setting. The great goal here should be to increase choices, to expand freedom, to open doors, and to allow citizens with disabilities to live where they want and to go where they wish

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Aug, 2018 12:13 pm

Self describing Christians here enacting penalisation contemporaneous with being unfair propagandisation.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 26 Aug, 2018 12:16 pm

HindleA wrote:Self describing Christians here enacting penalisation contemporaneous with being unfair propagandisation.

Can't imagine who you might be referring to there tbh

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sun 26 Aug, 2018 12:23 pm

PorFavor wrote:Re John McCain -
That McCain displayed rare fortitude in the “Hanoi Hilton” was common cause - until Trump mocked him during the 2016 election campaign, telling a conference in Iowa: “He’s not a war hero.” The future president, who avoided the draft five times, added: “He was a war hero because he was captured. I like people that weren’t captured.” (Guardian)

It's still amazing how DJT gets away with so much !

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Aug, 2018 12:30 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/science- ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No-deal Brexit 'worse than thought' for science

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 26 Aug, 2018 12:38 pm

frog222 wrote: It's still amazing how DJT gets away with so much !

Yes - whatever your politics, and whatever you think of John McCain, that was a really cheap jibe. Amazing (and worrying) that so many people find it clever and attractive.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Aug, 2018 12:55 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... apocalypse" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Aug, 2018 12:58 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... r-turn-too" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 26 Aug, 2018 1:18 pm

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... apocalypse

As that article acknowledges, most still think there will be some sort of deal that avoids the worst.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 26 Aug, 2018 1:35 pm

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... apocalypse

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Columnist
‏

@Sime0nStylites
Aug 25
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11. We can speculate a few reasons for this strange lacuna. It’s late August. Everyone’s bored, so bored, of Brexit (apart from me). Post World Cup blues, perhaps.

1 reply 8 retweets 52 likes
Reply 1 Retweet 8 Like 52 Direct message

The Columnist
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@Sime0nStylites
Aug 25
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12. More seriously, I still don’t think that many people *really* think it’s going to happen - the happy outcome paradox. I also think people struggle to conceptualise the scale of the problem.

my bold

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 26 Aug, 2018 1:40 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... apocalypse
As that article acknowledges, most still think there will be some sort of deal that avoids the worst.

Avoiding the worst is a pretty low bar.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sun 26 Aug, 2018 1:43 pm

A little RACHEL !

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[youtube]3e4oMar_nh0[/youtube]

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 26 Aug, 2018 1:51 pm

There's been many on twitter pointing out that a lot of the border/customs bureaucracy set out in the 'no deal' papers will also apply to JRM's beloved Canada-style FTA, something that's not widely understood in the media. I think the failure of most journalists to get to grips with the detail is a big part of the problem, much easier for them to stick to the UK politics angles, not least using it as a stick to beat JC with.

Also seen some rather good clips of Raab being dim at the Brexit committee, proclaiming that Brexit would mean a reduction in bureaucracy, contrasted with his 16000 more civil servants the other day.

JRM was on Newnight the other day touting Canada or no-deal as preferred options, Mark Urban didn't mention Ireland to him. Of course we now know what he would have said.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 08466.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 26 Aug, 2018 1:54 pm

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Reinhold Niebuhr

Apart from for a handful of people in Parliament, "no deal" Brexit falls firmly into the first category. People who have any awareness of the possible extent of the negative consequences of Brexit voted against May's hard Brexit mandate in 2017. There's not really anything else ordinary folk can do. And stockpiling, given the way supply chains work, simply causes shortages somewhere else so let's be thankful people haven't been tempted to do so. Inaction isn't quite the same as indifference and it definitely doesn't mean nothing bad will happen. I suspect most people, if they think about it at all, are simply getting on with enjoying the good times while they're still here. Meanwhile, Brits living in the EU and EU citizens living here may be a better weather vane for how things are perceived to be going and I suspect you'll find many have been forced to make a great deal of onerous preparations for a wide number of scenarios and outcomes and are doubtless pretty unhappy about the impact on their lives.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 26 Aug, 2018 3:21 pm

The Brexit Column: What our consumer poll says about the risks of no deal

In a survey of 3,044 people our poll found that 54% expect the UK to leave the EU without a deal in seven months’ time, while only 20% believe that scenario is likely to be avoided........The poll found that 43% of the public would be likely or very likely to cut everyday spending; 47% would delay major purchases; and 48% would cut luxury spending. Overall, 69% say they would change their buying behaviour.

People are starting to believe it, that's the thing.
We'd still have the poll tax if we'd thought we couldn't change it 25 years ago.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 26 Aug, 2018 4:42 pm

So when we go into the next recession I guess it'll be Remoaners fault for talking about the likely disaster when we go out with No Deal?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 26 Aug, 2018 5:10 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... taff-delay" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 26 Aug, 2018 5:13 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:So when we go into the next recession I guess it'll be Remoaners fault for talking about the likely disaster when we go out with No Deal?

That is, indeed, the plan. Though we don't *have* to fall for it.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 26 Aug, 2018 6:19 pm

Russ
‏

@Russell_CNX
Follow Follow @Russell_CNX
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Replying to @tomwhx @Aiannucci
It's not a re-run of the first one. The first one was 'Shall we go to the beach?'. The second, having arrived there to find it pissing down, the car park under construction and all the shops and cafes shut, is 'Fuck this, shall we bugger off back home and put the kettle on?'

Tim Lambert
‏

@3_142
3h3 hours ago
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Replying to @Russell_CNX @tomwhx @Aiannucci
The problem with this analogy is that stubbornly enduring the beach regardless is the most typically British response.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 26 Aug, 2018 6:27 pm

gilsey wrote:The Brexit Column: What our consumer poll says about the risks of no deal
In a survey of 3,044 people our poll found that 54% expect the UK to leave the EU without a deal in seven months’ time, while only 20% believe that scenario is likely to be avoided........The poll found that 43% of the public would be likely or very likely to cut everyday spending; 47% would delay major purchases; and 48% would cut luxury spending. Overall, 69% say they would change their buying behaviour.
People are starting to believe it, that's the thing.
We'd still have the poll tax if we'd thought we couldn't change it 25 years ago.

It took 2 years from its introduction in 1989 to force a u-turn and another 2 years until it was finally replaced by council tax in 1993.

Getting to a similar eventual compromise between the various extremes of Brexit could, indeed, be just as longwinded and hard going a battle as the one over poll tax.

Post by **refitman** » Sun 26 Aug, 2018 7:05 pm

frog222 wrote:
HindleA wrote:.https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
More accuracy here --
John McCain, Legendary Republican Senator, Dead at 81
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... it-627682/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Approved of by Strom Thurmond, and regretting he didn't select Joe Lieberman over Sarah Palin ,
Help
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2018/07/joe- ... ative-left" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Such a disconnect between the public image and the Reality !

Medhi Hasan has a piece about McCain's legacy : https://static.theintercept.com/amp/joh ... ecord.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sun 26 Aug, 2018 8:27 pm

refitman wrote:
frog222 wrote:
HindleA wrote:.https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
More accuracy here --
John McCain, Legendary Republican Senator, Dead at 81
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... it-627682/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Approved of by Strom Thurmond, and regretting he didn't select Joe Lieberman over Sarah Palin ,
Help
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2018/07/joe- ... ative-left" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Such a disconnect between the public image and the Reality !
Medhi Hasan has a piece about McCain's legacy : https://static.theintercept.com/amp/joh ... ecord.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Beware indeed the curated public image !

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sun 26 Aug, 2018 9:14 pm

Going back to 1978 !
"" Cunningham’s cunning amendment required a certain percentage – 40% – of the entire electorate to approve of devolution. Thus, although 51.6% of those who voted favoured devolution, they constituted only 32.9% of the electorate. Scottish devolution was postponed for almost 20 years.

It cannot be repeated often enough that when Theresa May says she has to honour the result of the referendum, she is proposing to honour the recorded views of a mere 37% of the electorate.

Now, whenever I have asked some Labour MPs why, frankly, they have been so supine on this issue, when they regard Brexit as damagingly absurd, their answers have indicated that because they represented Leave constituencies, they were frightened of losing their seats (sometimes this would be put in the context of wanting to honour the views of their constituents, you understand). ""

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... r-turn-too" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SO, it comes back yet again to that 2015 Parliament almost unanimously voting for a SimpleMajority referendum , but the guilty will not admit it .

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Sun 26 Aug, 2018 10:32 pm

Greetings from the house next door to the park hosting Leeds 'Black music*' festival, sadly it's pissed it down most of the day and so many local residents have complained over the last few years that my windows no longer rattle in their frames and I only caught one bloke trying to piss in the garden.

It has however been wonderful and I'm full of goat curry, jerk chicken (not the Jamie Oliver stuff) and rum with various other stuff in it. And a wee bit of ganja.

And tomorrow we have the parade to wake me up from my hangover.

You see this is inner city multicultural Britain, it's fun, it's sexy and everyone is having a good time.

Even me.

*Previously West Indian carnival, which is more accurate as it's 90% reggae.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Sun 26 Aug, 2018 10:58 pm

The main stage was shut down at 10 and everyone ended up wandering to the houses on my road that have set up shops and soundsystems in their gardens. I hung around for a while but the competing music totally fucked my head. There were literally 4 or 5 songs playing at the same time wherever I stood and there was no way I was buying anything from somebody sitting in their garden. Booze or drugs. Even my standards are higher than that.

But ultimately I spent the day getting wasted with some awesome people and I learned a lot more about life in Chapeltown than I would in a year if I'd just continued on being me.

Post by **refitman** » Sun 26 Aug, 2018 11:21 pm

Sky'sGoneOut wrote:Greetings from the house next door to the park hosting Leeds 'Black music*' festival, sadly it's pissed it down most of the day and so many local residents have complained over the last few years that my windows no longer rattle in their frames and I only caught one bloke trying to piss in the garden.

It has however been wonderful and I'm full of goat curry, jerk chicken (not the Jamie Oliver stuff) and rum with various other stuff in it. And a wee bit of ganja.

And tomorrow we have the parade to wake me up from my hangover.

You see this is inner city multicultural Britain, it's fun, it's sexy and everyone is having a good time.

Even me.

*Previously West Indian carnival, which is more accurate as it's 90% reggae.

I was about to recommend you some black metal, made by someone I know on another board...but then I realised you were talking about something else

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Sun 26 Aug, 2018 11:48 pm

Dude, recommend your black metal in the pub music thread.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Mon 27 Aug, 2018 7:34 am

May scrambles for African goodwill ahead of Brexit with trip to sub-Saharan countries
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 08941.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Scrambles" is the word !

Wonga going tits up, such a Very British bit of news !

Flying 'Father' tells journos to get lost --
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45318100" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 27 Aug, 2018 10:17 am

Good morning all, it seems the Corbyn smears have moved back onto IRA stuff now.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Mon 27 Aug, 2018 11:04 am

I think one of the reasons it's quiet here is that we don't really want to talk about Brexit, but we did yesterday and I'd like to add this (?relatively optimistic) take before we I stop talking about it again.

Alexander Clarkson
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@APHClarkson
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When the UK concedes on all points to the EU and drifts into Norway-style permanent transition after March 2019 the usual pro-Brexit commentators will write pieces poking fun at people who got as worried about Brexit as they did about the Millennium Bug

Alexander Clarkson
‏

@APHClarkson
Follow Follow @APHClarkson
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As the UK settles into Norway-style permanent transition after March 2019 a lot of commentators who once said No Deal was inevitable will pen pieces saying they knew all along the UK would concede on all points while the rest of us get on with life and watch the Ashes

Alexander Clarkson
‏

@APHClarkson
19h19 hours ago
More
I think the question is whether the UK concedes before the cliff edge and avoids disruption or whether it concedes after the cliff edge after unnecessary instability

1 reply 7 retweets 18 likes

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 27 Aug, 2018 11:48 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Good morning all, it seems the Corbyn smears have moved back onto IRA stuff now.

Strange that, since it seems Wes Streeting has been caught with his pants down on the latest anti-Semitism smear. Some of the people Corbyn rather politely chided for a lack of irony were called "rude yobs" by Streeting himself!

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 27 Aug, 2018 2:09 pm

Everybody outside for the bank holiday, then?

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Mon 27 Aug, 2018 2:19 pm

I would have been, but the neighbour's lit a bonfire so unless I want to get kippered it's cricket-watching for me.

Loss of senior managers led to UK’s prison crisis
https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... hip-crisis" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Official figures obtained by the Observer from the Ministry of Justice (MoJ) under freedom of information legislation show that 40 senior prison managers have left in the past five years but only two have joined – one of whom quit less than a year later. There were 205 outgoing managers compared with 23 incoming, while only a single replacement was hired in place of 295 custodial managers.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 27 Aug, 2018 2:23 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Everybody outside for the bank holiday, then?

Not yet!

But the rain has stooped, so maybe a stroll...

On politics, what to say?

Corbyn still isn't an antisemite. Or an IRA sympathiser.

Starmer is still a voice of reason on Brexit.

May has gone to South Africa.

And the Greens and Lib Dems both seem to be embroiled in leadership contests of one form or another.

As for the SNP, I don't know enough about that controversy to risk posting anything here.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 27 Aug, 2018 2:32 pm

It's a Bank Holiday ?

#playingthemarytr

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 27 Aug, 2018 2:35 pm

My Bank Holiday may well end up watching the unmentionables play Spurs. Any predictions AK?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 27 Aug, 2018 2:36 pm

And Leeds are top.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 27 Aug, 2018 2:38 pm

"In a different league'

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 27 Aug, 2018 2:41 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... ish-labour" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Edinburgh 'bed tax' could raise £2.5m, says Scottish Labour

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 27 Aug, 2018 2:44 pm

Stoops to conquer,additional "o's" seems to be catching.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Mon 27 Aug, 2018 4:48 pm

HindleA wrote:And Leeds are top.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 27 Aug, 2018 5:13 pm

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc. ... s-40011908" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/metro.co ... 45038/amp/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/thetab.c ... -36531/amp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 27 Aug, 2018 5:51 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Everybody outside for the bank holiday, then?

Yup. 3-0 and up into 5th place!

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 27 Aug, 2018 6:16 pm