Thursday 27th September 2018
Posted: Thu 27 Sep, 2018 7:03 am
Morning all.
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“We need somebody who can articulate the sunny uplands, who can tell us what all the great opportunities that are going to be there. Theresa May is not doing that.”
Welcome words from the defiant Brexiteer
I don't normally agree with Barry Gardiner on very much, but there is a point worth making about this. When Corbyn talks of rejecting "May's deal" he is overlooking the fact that if she does get a deal it won't just be her deal, it will also be the EU's deal. Their best offer. And yes it's their best offer in the face of Tory red lines but will nonetheless be made in good faith. All UK MPs are going to have to think long and hard before rejecting it out of hand if their intention is to achieve an orderly Brexit and maintain good relations with our neighbours. Although the EU is no doubt sympathetic to the internal politics of it, the UK rejecting their deal is the UK rejecting their deal and it can't be assumed they will respond with unlimited patience.Labour could 'bend' its red lines to help secure Brexit deal, Gardiner claims
The ITV Peston show also had Barry Gardiner, the shadow international trade secretary, on as a guest last night, and he said Labour would be willing to “bend” its red lines in the interests of helping the UK get a Brexit deal
It still seems overwhelmingly likely that, regardless of what this government might propose, the only deal the EU would agree to is either something like Norway, which I can understand might be acceptable (although I fundamentally don't understand why, given a choice between Norway and Remain, anybody would choose Norway) or something like Canada, which would involve an agreement on our part to break up the UK and which we should clearly have nothing to do with.Willow904 wrote:From the G live blog
I don't normally agree with Barry Gardiner on very much, but there is a point worth making about this. When Corbyn talks of rejecting "May's deal" he is overlooking the fact that if she does get a deal it won't just be her deal, it will also be the EU's deal. Their best offer. And yes it's their best offer in the face of Tory red lines but will nonetheless be made in good faith. All UK MPs are going to have to think long and hard before rejecting it out of hand if their intention is to achieve an orderly Brexit and maintain good relations with our neighbours. Although the EU is no doubt sympathetic to the internal politics of it, the UK rejecting their deal is the UK rejecting their deal and it can't be assumed they will respond with unlimited patience.Labour could 'bend' its red lines to help secure Brexit deal, Gardiner claims
The ITV Peston show also had Barry Gardiner, the shadow international trade secretary, on as a guest last night, and he said Labour would be willing to “bend” its red lines in the interests of helping the UK get a Brexit deal
In the political declaration it should be Norway or Canada because those are the deals on offer from the EU. To support the GFA, Norway would be +CU, and Canada would be +backstop.Willow904 wrote: if she does get a deal it won't just be her deal, it will also be the EU's deal. Their best offer. And yes it's their best offer in the face of Tory red lines but will nonetheless be made in good faith.
Yes, very much this.gilsey wrote:In the political declaration it should be Norway or Canada because those are the deals on offer from the EU. To support the GFA, Norway would be +CU, and Canada would be +backstop.Willow904 wrote: if she does get a deal it won't just be her deal, it will also be the EU's deal. Their best offer. And yes it's their best offer in the face of Tory red lines but will nonetheless be made in good faith.
Canada + backstop will be so damaging to the economy I don't see how Labour could support it under any circumstances.
Similarly 'blind brexit', where the PD is a fudge.
The possibility of May moving to Norway + CU and putting Labour on the spot is vanishingly small imo.
At the end of the day I'm sure the EU are totally fed up with the tory govt but I don't believe they want to punish the UK population in general.
What does Labour’s new Brexit position mean in practice?
Richard CorbettRichard Corbett
Today
The party's new Brexit stance now makes another referendum more than likely, writes Labour's leader in the European Parliament.
A pretty fair assessment IMO.Willow904 wrote:https://leftfootforward.org/2018/09/wha ... -practice/
What does Labour’s new Brexit position mean in practice?
Richard CorbettRichard Corbett
Today
The party's new Brexit stance now makes another referendum more than likely, writes Labour's leader in the European Parliament.
I heard Richard Corbett being interviewed the other day. He seemed to talk a lot of sense.Willow904 wrote:https://leftfootforward.org/2018/09/wha ... -practice/
What does Labour’s new Brexit position mean in practice?
Richard CorbettRichard Corbett
Today
The party's new Brexit stance now makes another referendum more than likely, writes Labour's leader in the European Parliament.
Sour relations with the EU now, or later, is the choice in practice though? No way the govt can get from the fudge to a long-term deal without even more grief, which is why I think the EU'd be mad to agree to it. July 2020 would look much like October 2018 ie a complete shitshow.Willow904 wrote:It seems most likely the political declaration will be a fudge. Although I get the arguments against a "blind Brexit" I'm not sure myself that rejecting the certainty of a transition period is quite such a straightforward choice as it appears. Article 50 was triggered against the backdrop of a political declaration of leaving the single market and customs union, because Labour were afraid of appearing to "block Brexit". Yet now, not only are they not afraid to be seen as "blocking Brexit", but are willing to sour relations with the EU and risk crashing out with no deal? I'm struggling to see the consistency in the rationale of these positions.
Yes, the Marina Hyde article really was awful (and I'm not an undiluted Jeremy Corbyn admirer). I can't speak for the social media bit ("Twitter"?) as I don't follow it as a subscriber.AnatolyKasparov wrote:Nice to see that Marina Hyde's latest (utterly awful) piece is getting a well justified punishment beating on social media.
You're not allowed to say that, anymore. According to the Daily Mail . . .citizenJA wrote:Evening, all
an article well-titled£40k spent hiding how rarely northern powerhouse minister visited north
Government spent two years trying to conceal how infrequently James Wharton travelled to north of England
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -the-north" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Not new to anyone here, but this is good on how Brexiter's idea of "taking back control" is somewhat undermined by their excitement at giving that control away again, as they would have to in order to secure new trade deals.Future UK trade deals and the question of sovereignty
I'd like to know the true intentions of those with power in the UKWillow904 wrote:https://uktradeforum.net/2018/09/26/fut ... ssion=true
Not new to anyone here, but this is good on how Brexiter's idea of "taking back control" is somewhat undermined by their excitement at giving that control away again, as they would have to in order to secure new trade deals.Future UK trade deals and the question of sovereignty
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -the-north£40k spent hiding how rarely northern powerhouse minister visited north
Government spent two years trying to conceal how infrequently James Wharton travelled to north of England (Guardian)
whilst not actually committing the party to anything new.AnatolyKasparov wrote:Arguably that was the genius of it though - it cheered people (well a lot of them) up, whilst not actually committing the party to anything new.
Despite the claims it was a "snub" to Corbyn, I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if it had been choreographed to at least a degree.
Never visited his constituency then, why doesn't that surprise me.PorFavor wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -the-north£40k spent hiding how rarely northern powerhouse minister visited north
Government spent two years trying to conceal how infrequently James Wharton travelled to north of England (Guardian)
Brandon Lewis, the Tory chairman....................revealed that, at the conference starting this weekend, the party will unveil an interactive conference app which will allow people to provide feedback during cabinet minister’s speeches.
There's a good piece from the LSE Brexit Blog on this kind of issue here...Willow904 wrote:https://uktradeforum.net/2018/09/26/fut ... ssion=true
Not new to anyone here, but this is good on how Brexiter's idea of "taking back control" is somewhat undermined by their excitement at giving that control away again, as they would have to in order to secure new trade deals.Future UK trade deals and the question of sovereignty
You'll excuse me whilst I just go off to vomit.Two Republicans close to the White House say Trump expressed sympathy for Kavanaugh and his family for having to listen to Ford’s tearful recounting of allegations