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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 8:47 am 
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Morning all.


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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 9:35 am 
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Ah just like the good old days,brings a tear to my eye.Just waiting for the tying to the furniture technique to become the norm again.



https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/li ... n=sharebar

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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 9:38 am 
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Glad you posted AH, the quiet in here was becoming a bit eerie.


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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 9:44 am 
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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... heresa-may


We have lost our way': questions of Tory identity and values hang over party

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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 10:06 am 
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Nottingham East CLP last night passed a motion of no confidence in their MP Chris Leslie, by an overwhelming margin.

Such was the strength of feeling (assisted by Leslie not even attending the meeting) that even a more "moderate" version of the text was clearly rejected.

It really couldn't happen to a more deserving individual.


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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 10:15 am 
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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 10:28 am 
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I've never been in doubt of the direction and values of the Tory Party to be honest.

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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 10:30 am 
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Trouble is they don't seem to need any,as bad as each other favours them.

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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 10:33 am 
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#Not saying they are#

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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 10:37 am 
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-


Attachments:
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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 10:41 am 
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https://socialcarefuture.blog/news-events/


https://socialcarefuture.blog/

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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 10:50 am 
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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ooperation

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May under microscope as EU searches for signs of Brexit cooperation


Corbyn warned by EU that Labour rejecting the withdrawal agreement, presuming May agrees one, will risk a no deal Brexit. Stances can change, of course, options can open up, but this underlines what I've been saying - approving a WA guarantees transition and the possibility of a mutually agreeable future relationship. Rejecting it guarantees nothing and makes the worst possible outcome - no deal - more likely. It's a high stakes gamble. Not a choice I would like to make.

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Selmayr, who is in charge of no-deal preparations and who will take control of the trade talks after Brexit day on 29 March 2019, wanted to keep open the lines of communication and keep talking. But if Selmayr was the good cop, Barnier, in the next hour-long meeting, proved to be very much the hard-hitting bad cop, willing to crack some heads to get a result. Corbyn was told that his stance made a no-deal Brexit more likely than not, sources in Brussels disclosed.

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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 11:02 am 
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I wouldn't trust anything Boffey writes, tbh. Terrible journalist and blatantly biased.


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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 11:03 am 
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Good morfternoon.

Sky TV News poll -

More than half of voters think that "Brexit will be worse than they thought".


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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 11:10 am 
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https://www.engage.england.nhs.uk/consu ... r-the-nhs/

Developing the long term plan for the NHS
Closes 30 Sep 2018

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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 11:17 am 
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"Double think"

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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 11:19 am 
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Morning all.

Just saw this...it's very good.

https://twitter.com/PatricKielty/status ... 1816708096

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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 11:39 am 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
I wouldn't trust anything Boffey writes, tbh. Terrible journalist and blatantly biased.


Voting against a WA does risk a no deal Brexit, though. That's just a simple, unbiased fact. And there's no reason not to think the EU are negotiating in good faith and are being straight with us on their red lines and what is and isn't possible. They will put the integrity of the single market and the stability of the EU first. Why would they not? I'm only looking at this from the perspective of Corbyn saying he is committed to Brexit. If that is true, rejecting the WA would not make sense. Rejecting the WA only makes sense if you want to remain in the EU and there's a realistic path to achieving that. I can't see one, though, so preventing a hard Brexit, for me, is the priority. It would have been great if Labour had won the last election, but they didn't. This is the Tories' show and Labour's options are limited and mostly bad because of that. I'm sure the EU would love it if we changed our minds and decided not to leave and would accommodate that, but do you really think Labour will fight a snap election promising that? And win one with that in the manifesto? I suspect not, so Labour would reject the withdrawal bill in the hope of winning an election to then leave the EU with pretty much the same WA as they rejected. If they pull it off, great, we'll have a Labour government, but if they don't pull it off, if they don't get an election, if they don't win it......

You see, my problem with Corbyn has never been about what he wants to achieve, it's my faith in his ability to achieve it. And that's why, for me, Labour's current strategy appears very high risk. It's not that I would be unhappy with the outcome if they pull it off, it's what they are risking if they don't. May might be calling Labour's bluff with no deal, but there are others in the Tory party who are not and if they get control, they can do an awful lot of damage.

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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 12:45 pm 
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Yes - far too many "what ifs". I was trying to articulate these (and more) the other day. Thanks!


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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 12:52 pm 
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Quote:
US groups raise millions to support rightwing UK thinktanks

Anonymous donors have given $5.6m since 2008 to groups linked to four thinktanks


Millions of dollars has been raised from anonymous US donors to support British rightwing thinktanks that are among the most prominent in the Brexit debate.

American donors are giving money to US fundraising bodies that pass the donations to four thinktanks in Britain. A Guardian analysis has established that $5.6m (£4.3m) has been donated to these US entities since 2008.

The Institute of Economic Affairs (IEA), the Adam Smith Institute, Policy Exchange and the Legatum Institute have all received financial support from US backers via this route.

The disclosure leaves the thinktanks facing questions as to whether wealthy Americans have undue influence in British politics, particularly over the form Brexit takes. (Guardian)


Bit late to start telling what many of us already knew\suspected now. Still, better late than (hopefully not) too late.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/28/us-groups-raise-millions-to-support-rightwing-uk-thinktanks


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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 1:24 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
Quote:
US groups raise millions to support rightwing UK thinktanks
Anonymous donors have given $5.6m since 2008 to groups linked to four thinktanks
Millions of dollars has been raised from anonymous US donors to support British rightwing thinktanks that are among the most prominent in the Brexit debate.
American donors are giving money to US fundraising bodies that pass the donations to four thinktanks in Britain. A Guardian analysis has established that $5.6m (£4.3m) has been donated to these US entities since 2008.
The Institute of Economic Affairs (IEA), the Adam Smith Institute, Policy Exchange and the Legatum Institute have all received financial support from US backers via this route.
The disclosure leaves the thinktanks facing questions as to whether wealthy Americans have undue influence in British politics, particularly over the form Brexit takes. (Guardian)


Bit late to start telling what many of us already knew\suspected now. Still, better late than (hopefully not) too late.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/28/us-groups-raise-millions-to-support-rightwing-uk-thinktanks

Was meaning to post that one earlier, thanks PF !
When you come to think of it we are talking about absolutely minuscule amounts of £££/$$$/€€€'s compared to the fortune of just one genuine (non-Trump) billionaire or even a multi-millionaire.
Subverting our so-called democracies is a bargain !


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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 1:36 pm 
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Willow 11.39 " so Labour would reject the withdrawal bill in the hope of winning an election to then leave the EU with pretty much the same WA as they rejected. ""

One of those Six Texts is so broad it really should only mean "Remain " too ... rightly described as bollocks by one Shadow, BG iirc ?

Lovely day here, out to do some winterising :-)


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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 2:08 pm 
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Good morning, everyone


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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 2:18 pm 
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Was it gilsey who'd posted the link to British rationing history? I apologise for not knowing; I did try to find out.
There's a current minister for rationing. Adam posted that a couple days ago. Current government won't have any problem letting most of us go hungry or without essentials, that's for sure and certain. This isn't a theoretical exercise, government will sell us all.

https://www.cooksinfo.com/british-wartime-food/


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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 2:20 pm 
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It wasn't just wartime rationing; it went on longer and it wasn't everybody. The so-called ruling class had all the food they liked. It'll happen again. Is anyone as angry about all this as I am?


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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 2:26 pm 
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I've been suffering from insomnia, I've got a something wrong with a tooth (I've a dental appointment next week) and my keyboard's space bar isn't functioning as it should making my attempts to communicate that much harder. Little things for me personally against a backdrop of Tory government's minister for rationing in 2018 in preparation for their Brexit.


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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 3:14 pm 
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#appgate?!

Tory conference appears to be imploding already.

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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 3:17 pm 
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citizenJA wrote:
I've been suffering from insomnia, I've got a something wrong with a tooth (I've a dental appointment next week) and my keyboard's space bar isn't functioning as it should making my attempts to communicate that much harder. Little things for me personally against a backdrop of Tory government's minister for rationing in 2018 in preparation for their Brexit.


I've no cake to offer, I'm afraid, so you'll have to make do with a hug. :hug:

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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 3:25 pm 
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https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... ssion=true

Quote:
Senior Tory ministers' mobile numbers exposed in serious conference app security flaw


For those who haven't seen Dawn Foster's tweets on Twitter about the Tory app.

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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 3:32 pm 
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citizenJA wrote:
Good morning, everyone


Posted at 3:08PM ;)


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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 4:11 pm 
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@Willow904
Thank you, thank you
:heart:


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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 4:12 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
Good morning, everyone


Posted at 3:08PM ;)
tole you I wernt sleepin good


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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 4:19 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/breaking-senior-tory-ministers-personal-13330446.amp?__twitter_impression=true

Quote:
Senior Tory ministers' mobile numbers exposed in serious conference app security flaw


For those who haven't seen Dawn Foster's tweets on Twitter about the Tory app.

They at least managed to get to Wednesday, last year, before the conference went tits-up. It hasn't even started this time.

Can't wait for Brandon Lewis to launch the app later!

Oh, and it seems the company they used to make the app isn't GDPR compliant. :lol: :wall:


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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 4:26 pm 
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I wouldn't mind change if it meant life and land benefiting, if it were something everyone did
Getting it foisted onto us by Tory government ('villeins ye are and villeins ye shall remain') are another matter entirely


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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 4:28 pm 
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Brandon Lewis launching an app
everyone duck & cover


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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 4:33 pm 
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@'Apless Conservative MPs?


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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 5:13 pm 
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Afternoon all.

Not a good day for the Os - unbeaten record gone.

Deservedly so though - we weren't very good.

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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 5:36 pm 
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Wren-Lewis on the political risks of BINO, this is part of the conclusion.
https://mainlymacro.blogspot.com/
Quote:
would BINO heal the wounds opened up by the original referendum or would it satisfy no one?

A positive argument would start by suggesting that most Remainers will not mind losing any say in the EU, because they would be so relieved that we had avoided a hard Brexit. The people who should be worried about this loss of sovereignty are Leavers, but they will be more concerned with actually leaving. And both groups will be relieved it is all over.

The argument against is that BINO is clearly inferior with being a member of the EU, so Remainers will know we have done something that is clearly nonsensical. Leavers on the other hand will be convinced (by the Brexit press in particular) that this result is a sham Brexit, and therefore a betrayal of the original referendum, which is roughly how May herself has described it. As time goes on both sides will forget that the government was fulfilling a democratic mandate, and instead blame it for agreeing a Brexit that nobody likes.

I don’t see how it is possible to know which of these outcomes will come to pass, which in turn means a government that enacts Brexit is risking a lot.

I'm a bit baffled by his idea that one or the other of these will happen. Much more likely that instead of being split in 2, we'd be split in 3 or even 4.

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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 5:48 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
@'Apless Conservative MPs?

Apless Tories rule ! :-)

All a splendid recommendation for Johnsonian techno-borders in NI ! Talking of customs checks, there’s already an outstanding Fine for iirc €2.7Bn EU money uncollected on Chinese imports .


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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 6:16 pm 
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“” Leslie is the latest in a growing list of Labour MPs to have lost confidence votes in their constituency parties. The others to have fallen foul of their local parties are the the anti-EU MPs Frank Field and Kate Hoey, and Corbyn critics Gavin Shuker and Joan Ryan.””

The author Toby Helm, describes that mob as “centre-left” !

Chris Leslie condemns Labour intolerance of critics of Corbyn
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... ics-corbyn

No Guardian comments surprise !


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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 6:21 pm 
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gilsey wrote:
Wren-Lewis on the political risks of BINO, this is part of the conclusion.
https://mainlymacro.blogspot.com/
Quote:
would BINO heal the wounds opened up by the original referendum or would it satisfy no one?

A positive argument would start by suggesting that most Remainers will not mind losing any say in the EU, because they would be so relieved that we had avoided a hard Brexit. The people who should be worried about this loss of sovereignty are Leavers, but they will be more concerned with actually leaving. And both groups will be relieved it is all over.

The argument against is that BINO is clearly inferior with being a member of the EU, so Remainers will know we have done something that is clearly nonsensical. Leavers on the other hand will be convinced (by the Brexit press in particular) that this result is a sham Brexit, and therefore a betrayal of the original referendum, which is roughly how May herself has described it. As time goes on both sides will forget that the government was fulfilling a democratic mandate, and instead blame it for agreeing a Brexit that nobody likes.

I don’t see how it is possible to know which of these outcomes will come to pass, which in turn means a government that enacts Brexit is risking a lot.

I'm a bit baffled by his idea that one or the other of these will happen. Much more likely that instead of being split in 2, we'd be split in 3 or even 4.


A hard Brexit isn't going to satisfy many people either, though, because we'll be noticeably worse off. Whatever kind of Brexit you have, a certain percentage of the population will immediately start campaigning to go back in and a certain percentage of the population will complain it's not the Brexit they voted for.

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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 6:54 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
A hard Brexit isn't going to satisfy many people either, though, because we'll be noticeably worse off. Whatever kind of Brexit you have, a certain percentage of the population will immediately start campaigning to go back in and a certain percentage of the population will complain it's not the Brexit they voted for.


This then common Army expression from fifty years ago has unsurprisingly been running through my mind for some time . I googled it to see if I was the only one ...@CantyPhil

the biggest fuck up since Dunkirk

#BrexitIn5Words 1:38 PM - Jun 26, 2016


Last edited by frog222 on Sat 29 Sep, 2018 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 6:55 pm 
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It really is lets all laugh at the Tories time, lets hope that continues for the next week :)


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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 7:24 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
It really is lets all laugh at the Tories time, lets hope that continues for the next week :)


I've been looking forward to the Conservative Conference on the basis that a good laugh is more or less guaranteed. And they're off to a flying start (or pre-start). But after the laughter is over - then what? That's what worries me.


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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 7:40 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
It really is lets all laugh at the Tories time, lets hope that continues for the next week :)


I've been looking forward to the Conservative Conference on the basis that a good laugh is more or less guaranteed. And they're off to a flying start (or pre-start). But after the laughter is over - then what? That's what worries me.

Would worry me too if I were the worrying sort .... ..... .... but of course you're right . The EXTREME 1930's Berlin satires on 'Itler and co did not change history either .


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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 9:31 pm 
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frog222 wrote:
“” Leslie is the latest in a growing list of Labour MPs to have lost confidence votes in their constituency parties. The others to have fallen foul of their local parties are the the anti-EU MPs Frank Field and Kate Hoey, and Corbyn critics Gavin Shuker and Joan Ryan.””

The author Toby Helm, describes that mob as “centre-left” !

Chris Leslie condemns Labour intolerance of critics of Corbyn
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... ics-corbyn

No Guardian comments surprise !


That article is even worse than I expected, painting him as some sort of political titan who is about to be grievously lost to us :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 9:49 pm 
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Behind paywall in Telegraph...

'We need a more robust approach': David Davis unleashes criticism of Brexit negotiations

David Davis MP, Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union from July 2016 to July 2018, actually said that out loud.

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PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2018 11:08 pm 
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adam wrote:
Behind paywall in Telegraph...

'We need a more robust approach': David Davis unleashes criticism of Brexit negotiations

David Davis MP, Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union from July 2016 to July 2018, actually said that out loud.


I'd love it if Theresa May came out and said "You two did absolutely fuck all when you were in office so STFU!"

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PostPosted: Sun 30 Sep, 2018 1:09 am 
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Might be more app-related issues for the Tories, but not from the conference.

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https://twitter.com/PrivacyMatters/stat ... 2844966912


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PostPosted: Sun 30 Sep, 2018 1:11 am 
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'Tories using a nap to provide real-time feedback on speeches?'..(conversation) ;)


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