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PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct, 2018 12:57 pm 
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You only get one life,facillitating genuine independence including risk taking should be a societal goal regardless,the cotton wool residualisation to meek receiver subject to conditionalities (in general terms),the "learned behaviour" is a function of necessity,it shouldn't be.We don't question support we all get because largely hidden/uncontested to the degree of mass self delusion we are not all heavily reliant,only when "visible"or under the warped narrative of unsustainable etc when so obviously mutually beneficial to Society and individual.Far from can't we must,else the continual impasse will continue

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PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct, 2018 1:28 pm 
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Quote:
MP demands Met police explain why Brexit inquiry dropped

Damian Collins says Scotland Yard must explain failure to look into potential crimes committed by three pro-Brexit groups (Observer)


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/14/met-police-damian-collins-no-investigation-leave-campaigners-data-misuse


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PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct, 2018 2:39 pm 
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tinybgoat wrote:
---
...I keep forgetting that it's just the withdrawal agreement that's being accepted at this stage & future relationship is likely to be quite woolly, but think my rant possibly still valid :?
(cJA edit)
Yes, it is still valid and your posts help clarify my understanding.

I'm increasingly unable unraveling Brexit-related lingo and processes. Even those with the best of intentions often contribute confusion. Not always; Ivan Rogers' recent talk in Cambridge linked below is a helpful read though it's purpose and subject matter aren't meant as a beginner's guide.

https://share.trin.cam.ac.uk/sites/publ ... lution.pdf


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PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct, 2018 2:40 pm 
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Good-afternoon, everyone


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PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct, 2018 2:53 pm 
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IDS wasn't the architect of UC ,or at least beyond the nabbed conceptual,Freud was the guy who knew the most about (all relative)

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Last edited by HindleA on Sun 14 Oct, 2018 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct, 2018 2:54 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/oct/13/tories-take-four-point-lead-over-labour-despite-brexit-troubles

Quote:
If the government is unable to reach a deal with the EU, 31% of respondents said the UK should leave without a deal and with no further votes, 23% said there should a second Brexit referendum, 14% said there should be a general election and 13% said the government should try to extend the negotiation period beyond March 2019.

13% of people have been paying attention. ;)

A stark illustration of how the hard Brexit wreckers could win out. For them to succeed all that is needed is for their opponents to do nothing and their opponents are woefully divided on how to proceed.
Of course. Brexiteers try keeping opposition defensive, disable constructive word and action by filling space with meaningless chatter


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PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct, 2018 2:56 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
You only get one life,facillitating genuine independence including risk taking should be a societal goal regardless,the cotton wool residualisation to meek receiver subject to conditionalities (in general terms),the "learned behaviour" is a function of necessity,it shouldn't be.We don't question support we all get because largely hidden/uncontested to the degree of mass self delusion we are not all heavily reliant,only when "visible"or under the warped narrative of unsustainable etc when so obviously mutually beneficial to Society and individual.Far from can't we must,else the continual impasse will continue
:rock:


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PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct, 2018 2:57 pm 
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https://labourlist.org/2018/10/mike-gap ... exit-deal/
"Mike Gapes: No, Labour MPs aren’t going to vote for May’s Brexit deal"


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PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct, 2018 3:12 pm 
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CAB were pretty crap about benefit/pension advice on the basis of a two minute check of government information or indeed their own website was more than they knew in my case.Never heard of NI contribitions of deceased going towards surviving partner.Head honcho,locally,not volunteer advisor.At least part of the "complex" representation is general ignorance.Check for yourself,don't just take advice I found a sensible and more often than not necessary method.

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PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct, 2018 3:19 pm 
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I went for confirmation,discombobulated/questioned own sanity.Not for the first,and no doubt not the last time.

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Last edited by HindleA on Sun 14 Oct, 2018 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct, 2018 3:20 pm 
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tinybgoat wrote:
https://labourlist.org/2018/10/mike-gapes-no-labour-mps-arent-going-to-vote-for-mays-brexit-deal/
"Mike Gapes: No, Labour MPs aren’t going to vote for May’s Brexit deal"


All seems a bit optimistic to me. Unless the government decides it would like to hold a further referendum, I think it unlikely one could be forced upon them. Labour certainly shouldn't rule a referendum out, but I can't see the point in pursuing it as an active policy. But then I can't see enough Tory MPs willing to vote themselves out of office to force a GE, either. If May fails to get a deal or has a deal voted down there will be a full blown political crisis, and anyone insisting they know or can control the consequences of that are bullshitting, imo.

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PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct, 2018 3:24 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
CAB were pretty crap about benefit/pension advice on the basis of a two minute check of government information or indeed their own website was more than they knew in my case.Never heard of NI contribitions of deceased going towards surviving partner.Head honcho,locally,not volunteer advisor.At least part of the "complex" representation is general ignorance.Check for yourself,don't just take advice I found a sensible and more often than not necessary method.


Keeping these things quiet is government policy.

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PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct, 2018 3:32 pm 
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Having internet access,I could work out in a couple of minutes,the CAB should know these things on the ground,hardly a unique situation.

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PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct, 2018 3:40 pm 
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So with respect not hidden,but general ignorance,often different advice/confusion/needless complication of a quite easily,as far as eligibility goes,two years preceding,calculation based on number of years and age of spouse/partner of departed.Part of possible bereavement support advice of DWP.

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Last edited by HindleA on Sun 14 Oct, 2018 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct, 2018 3:41 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
CAB were pretty crap about benefit/pension advice on the basis of a two minute check of government information or indeed their own website was more than they knew in my case.Never heard of NI contribitions of deceased going towards surviving partner.Head honcho,locally,not volunteer advisor.At least part of the "complex" representation is general ignorance.Check for yourself,don't just take advice I found a sensible and more often than not necessary method.
I've seen enough of Mike Leigh's films to know the wisdom of seeking further advice.


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PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct, 2018 3:43 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
Having internet access,I could work out in a couple of minutes,the CAB should know these things on the ground,hardly a unique situation.
Life is complicated
Have mercy on the well-meaning ignorant


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PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct, 2018 3:44 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
HindleA wrote:
CAB were pretty crap about benefit/pension advice on the basis of a two minute check of government information or indeed their own website was more than they knew in my case.Never heard of NI contribitions of deceased going towards surviving partner.Head honcho,locally,not volunteer advisor.At least part of the "complex" representation is general ignorance.Check for yourself,don't just take advice I found a sensible and more often than not necessary method.


Keeping these things quiet is government policy.
Yep, that too


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PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct, 2018 3:55 pm 
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Turning 50 is bad enough, finding that one of your school friends has just died doesn't help.

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PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct, 2018 3:56 pm 
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Quote:
It was a summer in Athens with his family, aged eight, that changed Rawlings’s life and allowed him to realise that
“if you just climb over the side of the English-speaking box and look out, the world’s a very different place out there.
There is more that unites us than divides us but everything we take for granted about national identity is pure chance.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... atmosphere


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PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct, 2018 4:07 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
So with respect not hidden,but general ignorance,often different advice/confusion/needless complication of a quite easily,as far as eligibility goes,two years preceding,calculation based on number of years and age of spouse/partner of departed.


Not hidden, no, but not exactly advertised, either.

Thorough, timely advertising of pertinent information relating to government policy costs money. It was one of the first things to go under the austerity axe. Hence I ended up, quite unknowingly, driving an untaxed car for over a week. If I had been aware of a change in policy, no doubt the information would have been there if I had specifically sought it, but how would I have known of the change and need to do so? in the absence of widespread advertisement things aren't hidden as such, but they are predictably less likely to be generally known.

There have been a lot of changes.

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PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct, 2018 4:09 pm 
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Sorry to hear that Adam.Apologies to you and in general of repeated death or related mentions,would have been Wedding Anniversary this week rekindles the memories,but celebration of life and never forgetting rather makes me (probably too much) obsessional.

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PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct, 2018 4:21 pm 
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New Twitter account...this one could run and run...

Quote:
Has a Withdrawal Agreement been agreed?


@IsTheWAAgreed
3m3 minutes ago
More
No.

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PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct, 2018 4:49 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
tinybgoat wrote:
https://labourlist.org/2018/10/mike-gapes-no-labour-mps-arent-going-to-vote-for-mays-brexit-deal/
"Mike Gapes: No, Labour MPs aren’t going to vote for May’s Brexit deal"


All seems a bit optimistic to me. Unless the government decides it would like to hold a further referendum, I think it unlikely one could be forced upon them. Labour certainly shouldn't rule a referendum out, but I can't see the point in pursuing it as an active policy. But then I can't see enough Tory MPs willing to vote themselves out of office to force a GE, either. If May fails to get a deal or has a deal voted down there will be a full blown political crisis, and anyone insisting they know or can control the consequences of that are bullshitting, imo.

Maybe government could be bargained with (by various factions/parties) to hold a further referendum as a prerequisite to receiving support for either withdrawal agreement or confidence vote?


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PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct, 2018 5:07 pm 
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RogerOThornhill wrote:
New Twitter account...this one could run and run...

Quote:
Has a Withdrawal Agreement been agreed?


@IsTheWAAgreed
3m3 minutes ago
More
No.


Not only am I generally confused about the "Brexit" to-ings and fro-ings, I'm now confused over who's doing the to-ing and fro-ing. I thought Theresa May was in charge of all the negotiating stuff these days.


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PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct, 2018 5:32 pm 
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https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/10/181010105602.htm

Muscular men prefer an unequal society

Men with large upper-bodies have a tendency to favour inequality in society and a limited redistribution of resources. This is the conclusion drawn by Professor Michael Bang Petersen and Associate Professor Lasse Laustsen from the Department of Political Science in a study published in the journal, Political Psychology.


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PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct, 2018 5:38 pm 
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tinybgoat wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
tinybgoat wrote:
https://labourlist.org/2018/10/mike-gapes-no-labour-mps-arent-going-to-vote-for-mays-brexit-deal/
"Mike Gapes: No, Labour MPs aren’t going to vote for May’s Brexit deal"


All seems a bit optimistic to me. Unless the government decides it would like to hold a further referendum, I think it unlikely one could be forced upon them. Labour certainly shouldn't rule a referendum out, but I can't see the point in pursuing it as an active policy. But then I can't see enough Tory MPs willing to vote themselves out of office to force a GE, either. If May fails to get a deal or has a deal voted down there will be a full blown political crisis, and anyone insisting they know or can control the consequences of that are bullshitting, imo.

Maybe government could be bargained with (by various factions/parties) to hold a further referendum as a prerequisite to receiving support for either withdrawal agreement or confidence vote?


I think that was the rationale behind the meaningful vote amendment, but it wasn't passed, at least not in a form that can be relied upon.

And Labour don't support a further referendum anyway so May still couldn't rely on getting a majority even if she offered one.

If she gets a deal, and that's certainly not a given, I suspect she'll just try to whip it through holding the plausable possibility of "no deal" over everyone. We're against the clock and only the PM can ask for more time. It's her only card and I suspect she'll play it.

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PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct, 2018 6:09 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
I think that was the rationale behind the meaningful vote amendment, but it wasn't passed, at least not in a form that can be relied upon.

And Labour don't support a further referendum anyway so May still couldn't rely on getting a majority even if she offered one.

If she gets a deal, and that's certainly not a given, I suspect she'll just try to whip it through holding the plausable possibility of "no deal" over everyone. We're against the clock and only the PM can ask for more time. It's her only card and I suspect she'll play it.

Any scenario we can think of seems unlikely to happen. I started with 'almost any' and then changed it because I haven't seen anything yet that did seem likely.

I visited friends last week and outlined my concerns about the People's Vote, that I can't see how it would/could work unless the govt had already come round to Remain, friend responded that won't happen, of course I know it's vanishingly unlikely.
But they're going on the march next weekend and think it might make a difference, which I think is vanishingly unlikely.

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PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct, 2018 6:40 pm 
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goodnight, everyone
love,
cJA


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PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct, 2018 7:37 pm 
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Sky'sGoneOut wrote:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/10/181010105602.htm

Muscular men prefer an unequal society

Men with large upper-bodies have a tendency to favour inequality in society and a limited redistribution of resources. This is the conclusion drawn by Professor Michael Bang Petersen and Associate Professor Lasse Laustsen from the Department of Political Science in a study published in the journal, Political Psychology.

Maybe similar to this (I was googling something along lines of why so people vote Tory)
https://amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... tudy-finds
"Hunky Tory? Attractive people more likely to be rightwing, study finds"
Quote:
Good-looking people also get treated better and therefore feel the world is just and fair, leading to ‘blind spot’ when trying to understand hardships of others

Can't see it myself (except with mirror) but article starts with picture of Boris Johnson, which doesn't really help it's case.


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PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct, 2018 8:40 pm 
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https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 82546.html
"Jeremy Corbyn under fresh pressure from sister party to back a final say Brexit referendum"
Quote:
“There is overwhelming support from the Co-operative Party for a people’s vote on any deal that Theresa May negotiates and for Remain to be an option.”
And he added: “It indicates to the leadership that, if there had been a straight up-and-down vote at Labour’s conference, this is how it would have ended up.”


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PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct, 2018 8:44 pm 
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Quote:
11m ago 21:30

The chief whip Julian Smith just posted this image on Twitter. Very mysterious. What could it mean? (Guardian)


Sorry, you'd need to follow the link (below) to see the picture. Beyond my limited capabilities . . .

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/oct/14/brexit-deal-eu-ambassadors-meet-amid-speculation-about-final-agreement-politics-live


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PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct, 2018 8:58 pm 
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Five local council byelections in the past week, well six if you include a welcome Labour gain in the City of London authority. But as for the "normal" contests:

Halton - Labour hold with approaching three quarters of the vote in a ward which comfortably returned three councillors for them in the 2004 all out elections and has been very safe indeed for them in recent years - though earlier this year their margin was relatively modest as they got a little over 60-40 in a straight fight with an Independent. Interestingly, that candidate was the same one who had won this seat as a Tory in 2006 - the only time Labour has not been returned here in recent years; despite that relatively good showing they did not try their luck this time and though the Tories came second it was some way short of their glory days as they had to settle for 15%. LibDems last with 11% in their first showing here for a decade.

Hartlepool - Independent gain from Labour in a ward which has been keenly contested for some time now. Once a good LibDem area, their post-coalition decline saw others move in to take the anti-Labour vote and in the 2012 all-out elections after boundary changes this ward split 2Lab/1Ind. Two years later the previous Indy seat was taken by the localist Hartlepool First group with Labour actually finishing 4th - 2015 and 2016 saw Labour holds but with UKIP close behind on both occasions, before this year the previous HF seat was won by an Independent with Labour close behind. Despite the Labour loss here (this was one of their seats up) there was actually a tiny swing to them since this May as they finished just 4% behind the winner; Tories dropped by 4 points to 14% whilst the Greens got less than 2%, down on their previous 2016 effort.

Adur DC - Labour gain from UKIP, building on their win in this ward earlier this year which was the first time they have won here since it split 1C/1Lab in the 2004 all-out elections - they had a near miss in 2012 when the Tories held on by just eight votes, but then UKIP surged to win a 2013 by-election and follow that up with wins in 2014 and 2016. The latter was another notably close contest - just 20 votes separating the winner from Labour in third place - and when Labour made their breakthrough in May it was by just 11 votes over the Tories. UKIP totally collapsed then and did not even stand this time, and by the standards of recent elections Labour winning by over 5 points - up 4% from five months ago - almost looks like luxury. Greens also performed creditably, more than doubling their share to over 13%.

Warrington - Independent gain from Labour, and this one was totally unexpected by just about everybody (though the winner was elected at parish council level for part of this ward earlier this year, and a closer look reveal local discontent at a proposed library closure - an issue that has lain behind some electoral shocks, and near shocks, in recent years) This has been traditionally one of the keener Labour/Tory battlegrounds here, and whilst in the 2016 all-outs this slightly redrawn ward returned 3 Labour members the top-placed Tory ran them close for the last seat and the expectation was that they would be the main challenger now. As it was the Independent winning score of 36% was taken roughly equally from Labour and the Tories - the LibDems were the only other party to stand two years ago, but they also roughly halved to less than 5% now. UKIP and Greens also threw their hats into the ring this time, but had rather less success than the winner - 3% and 2% respectively.

West Lancashire DC - Labour hold with over 70% of the vote, this ward has been a massive stronghold for them in recent years (earlier this year they beat the Tories 85-15 in a straight fight) and only in a previous 2008 by-election was their grip seriously threatened. Back in the 2002 all-out elections two Labour members were duly elected, but an Independent performed respectably in second and the first Indy showing since then saw them take second - albeit a rather distant one with 20% of the poll. Meaning they beat the Tories whose already modest share was halved since earlier this year.

Two "normal" contests in the coming week, plus a distinctly rare event - a local authority byelection in Northern Ireland.


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PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct, 2018 9:41 pm 
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So not only are Tories supposed to be stronger than us but better looking?

Shit.

Curiously when I go to a North bar in Leeds which has European flags flying it's full of young attractive people. But when I go to the Nag's head it's full of pensioners pissing themselves on their barstools.

And I exercise because I'm a bloke in his forties so it's either that or get fat. I've put on muscle by mistake and my views have become more left wing than they were before.


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PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct, 2018 10:09 pm 
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Seriously though, stopping smoking made me start getting fat.

And in reality there's only one way to get rid of it.


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PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct, 2018 10:23 pm 
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Heh.

I really dont care.



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PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct, 2018 10:28 pm 
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Sorry wrong place.

Carry on.


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PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct, 2018 10:48 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct, 2018 10:50 pm 
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That's not what I had in mind but....


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PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct, 2018 11:01 pm 
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Hang on I'll smoke some weed and drink some wine then everything will be alright.


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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 12:06 am 
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