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 Post subject: Monday 15th October 2018
PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 6:03 am 
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Morning all.


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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 6:58 am 
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The cost of austerity:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/heal ... 6.html?amp


Quote:
Children in England are more likely to die in infancy than their European counterparts and are set to be left further behind on a range of health measures unless the government and NHS act now, a major report warns.


Child poverty is a major factor, as mentioned in this article, while the G version also mentions chronic respiratory conditions, so air pollution may play a part.

So very political and more money to treat symptoms is not the answer. The cause needs to be tackled at source. The Tories need to be ejected from government if child mortality rates are to improve.

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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 7:18 am 
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This is interesting.

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ssion=true

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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 7:55 am 
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Ejected to another planet would be my preference.

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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 8:02 am 
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https://www.gov.uk/government/news/pm-l ... s-strategy

PM launches Government’s first loneliness strategy

If only there had been an already existing method to combat social isolation and they hadn't heightened eligibility by legislation.

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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 8:16 am 
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Good-morning, everyone


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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 8:28 am 
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Please wake up, PorFavor.


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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 9:19 am 
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Willow904 wrote:

Just saw a clip of Starmer with Victoria Derbyshire earlier, saying choice only between May's deal and no deal was unacceptable.

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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 9:22 am 
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'I leave the car at home': how free buses are revolutionising one French city

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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 9:28 am 
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gilsey wrote:
Willow904 wrote:

Just saw a clip of Starmer with Victoria Derbyshire earlier, saying choice only between May's deal and no deal was unacceptable.


It is unacceptable.

That doesn't mean that isn't what we'll end up with, though.

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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 9:49 am 
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A few numbers in this Twitter thread help to underline how UC design flaws plus huge benefits cuts have combined to impoverish children in particular, though also the sick and disabled and anyone who needs help with housing, in a deliberate and systematic manner:

https://mobile.twitter.com/josietucker/ ... 2305149953

Quote:
Josephine Tucker
@josietucker
·
Oct 14
The freeze on working-age benefits is the biggest single cut - for years support hasn’t risen with rents or inflation. Over the decade failure to uprate benefits properly will cost the poorest 10% of households over 10% of their income. (link: http://www.cpag.org.uk/sites/default/fi ... 0FINAL.pdf) cpag.org.uk/sites/default/… (3/18)


Cutting the link between benefits and the cost of living was a hugely damaging move by Osborne but passed by the press with barely a whimper and I still struggle to understand why a much bigger fuss wasn't made over a policy which basically said "we will no longer ensure benefits provide the bare minimum someone needs to live on". It's disgraceful.

As have been the repeated refusals to do cumulative impact assessments of the combination of benefit changes and cuts on particular individuals hence we end up with this:

Quote:
Josephine Tucker
@josietucker
·
Oct 14
For some people these losses add up to be mind-bendingly large. A disabled single parent with a disabled child, for example, loses on average nearly £10,000 a year in support from tax/benefit reforms this decade. (link: https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/sit ... report.pdf) equalityhumanrights.com/sites/default/… (8/18)
t

We all know what's been happening, but these numbers, listed all together, are still pretty shocking.

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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 10:07 am 
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With all of the bluster going on this morning it's very very difficult to see how the government can step back from the brink and actually carry their own supporters with them. Party or Country for May? I'm not holding my breath.

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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 10:13 am 
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Willow904 wrote:


not necessarily connected, but maybe relevant:
https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit- ... today/amp/
"Sinn Féin leader to talk Brexit with May and Corbyn today"


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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 10:15 am 
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citizenJA wrote:
Please wake up, PorFavor.

Probably overwhelmed with emotion over royal baby news. ;)


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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 10:38 am 
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https://twitter.com/PJTheEconomist/stat ... 1455775744
Quote:
Paul Johnson

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More
4) None of this is news. We've known about welfare cuts since 2015 (most are implemented) and much about impact of Universal Credit since 2012. Why does it take until now for the flurry of political concern?

We are poorly served by our politicians and media.


edit - better late than never.

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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 10:49 am 
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Quote:
Theresa May will make a statement to MPs this afternoon about the Brexit talks. Prime ministers always make Commons statements after EU summits. But to give one two days before a summit is very unusual. Perhaps she intends to lay down some negotiating red lines. The statement will start at 3.30, unless there are urgent questions, in which case it will be delayed for half an hour or more.

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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 10:54 am 
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tinybgoat wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
Please wake up, PorFavor.

Probably overwhelmed with emotion over royal baby news. ;)


I hadn't heard. But now that I have, you're quite right. I'm overwhelmed, etc.

(I've come over all Brenda from Bristol.)


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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 10:54 am 
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Good morfternoon.


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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 10:57 am 
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tinybgoat wrote:
Willow904 wrote:


not necessarily connected, but maybe relevant:
https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit- ... today/amp/
"Sinn Féin leader to talk Brexit with May and Corbyn today"


While Labour doesn't want to be seen to be voting for May's brexit, a withdrawal deal agreed by cross-party consensus would be another matter. I doubt May has the ability or authority to achieve this, though, so I suspect it's more a case of "look, we tried".

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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 11:00 am 
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Theresa May to make some sort of announcement to the Commons some time later today (BBC News).


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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 11:04 am 
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@gilsey

Whoops - sorry.


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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 11:06 am 
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Willow904 wrote:
tinybgoat wrote:
Willow904 wrote:


not necessarily connected, but maybe relevant:
https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit- ... today/amp/
"Sinn Féin leader to talk Brexit with May and Corbyn today"


While Labour doesn't want to be seen to be voting for May's brexit, a withdrawal deal agreed by cross-party consensus would be another matter. I doubt May has the ability or authority to achieve this, though, so I suspect it's more a case of "look, we tried".



"Idiosyncracies" of the DUP?


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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 11:09 am 
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Quote:
What’s the point of growth if it creates so much misery? (Guardian)


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/15/we-can-rebuild-economy-foundations-up


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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 11:25 am 
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Sturgeon's come out for SM + CU.

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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 11:27 am 
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gilsey wrote:
https://twitter.com/PJTheEconomist/status/1051722401455775744
Quote:
Paul Johnson

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@PJTheEconomist
4h4 hours ago
More
4) None of this is news. We've known about welfare cuts since 2015 (most are implemented) and much about impact of Universal Credit since 2012. Why does it take until now for the flurry of political concern?

We are poorly served by our politicians and media.


edit - better late than never.


It didn't help that certain "extremely sensible" elements within Labour constantly moaned that it was a waste of time opposing this stuff.

(when they weren't actually cheering it on, that is)


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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 1:05 pm 
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Sinn Fein say they will call for a Border Poll immediately if the UK crashes out of the EU without a deal.

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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 2:08 pm 
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adam wrote:
Sinn Fein say they will call for a Border Poll immediately if the UK crashes out of the EU without a deal.


Its All Just Going Swimmingly, part 94.


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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 2:34 pm 
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And she's off . . .


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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 2:36 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
And she's off . . .


It appears to be the rank outsider 'Everything you have read and heard about the weekend is wrong' speech.

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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 2:43 pm 
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The backstop that was agreed was not to be temporary.

May says the UK cannot accept a backstop that could go on forever.

I've lost my will to live again.


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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 2:52 pm 
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RIP Patricia Hollis


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45866798

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Last edited by HindleA on Mon 15 Oct, 2018 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 2:55 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 2:57 pm 
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Indeed, a sad loss.


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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 3:35 pm 
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tinybgoat wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
Please wake up, PorFavor.

Probably overwhelmed with emotion over royal baby news. ;)
:lol:


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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 3:38 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
Good morfternoon.

thank goodness you're here
:rock:


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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 3:38 pm 
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From the G:

Quote:
Jacob Rees-Mogg, the leading Tory Brexiter, asks why British negotiators ignored the point about having a customs border down the Irish Sea being illegal.

May says her negotiators did not ignore that.


Has anyone heard this one before about an Irish sea border being illegal? I thought there were already a small number of border checks between Northern Ireland and mainland Britain, so I assume Rees-Mogg is talking about a more general principle, but is it really a legal problem or just a political issue?

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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 3:48 pm 
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Quote:
Contingent Liability Notification: Written statement - HCWS1009 - Treasury - 15 October 2018
John Glen (The Economic Secretary to the Treasury)


I can today confirm that I have laid a Treasury Minute informing the House of the contingent liability that HM Treasury has taken on
in authorising the sale of a portfolio of Bradford & Bingley (B&B) and NRAM loans acquired during the financial crisis under the last
Labour Government.

On this occasion, due to the sensitivities surrounding the commercial negotiation of this sale, it has not been possible to notify
Parliament of the particulars of the liability in advance of the sale announcement.


https://www.parliament.uk/business/publ ... 5/HCWS1009
(cJA emphasis)

Tory government's commercial negotiations mean no democratic accountability


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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 3:56 pm 
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Quote:
Jack Maidment

Verified account

@jrmaidment
14m14 minutes ago
More
Theresa May hints MPs could block no-deal Brexit
“If it were the case at the end of the negotiation process actually it was a no deal... then actually that would come back to this House & then we would see what position this House would take in the circumstances of the time.”


Well, that would be interesting...

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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 4:08 pm 
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Kay Burley (Sky News) just referred to the "eponymous" Boris Johnson. Stupid woman (KB).


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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 4:27 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
From the G:

Quote:
Jacob Rees-Mogg, the leading Tory Brexiter, asks why British negotiators ignored the point about having a customs border down the Irish Sea being illegal.

May says her negotiators did not ignore that.


Has anyone heard this one before about an Irish sea border being illegal? I thought there were already a small number of border checks between Northern Ireland and mainland Britain, so I assume Rees-Mogg is talking about a more general principle, but is it really a legal problem or just a political issue?


Think it was this:
http://belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/nort ... 26116.html
but think there was talk over summer of house of lords finding some way to allow house of commons to reconsider it.


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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 4:39 pm 
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from 12th September
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... to-commons

Quote:
The taxation (cross-border trade) bill, was amended at the behest of Jacob Rees-Mogg’s European Research Group (ERG) to outlaw a customs border in the Irish Sea, and force the government to legislate before it could join a customs union, among other issues.
As the legislation passes through the Lords, peers are unable to amend it, because it has been designated an “aids and supply bill”.
But Smith’s team have received advice from experts in parliamentary procedure that they can help to reopen debate about the amendments, by attaching them to a separate piece of legislation – the trade bill, also currently passing through the Lords.


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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 4:49 pm 
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Quote:
Steve richards @steverichards14

May is twisting and turning in increasingly contorted attempts to keep her government together. Brexit hardliners forced the weak Cameron to hold the referendum when few wanted one. Now May similarly weak. A braver PM wd state there’s only one solution to Irish Question : Remain
3:54 PM - Oct 15, 2018 (Politics Live, Guardian)


Quite. Fairly obvious - not to David Cameron, of course.


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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 5:07 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Indeed, a sad loss.


She was one of my first year tutors when I was an undergraduate (mumble mumble everyone I know is dying mumble mumble)

(Apologies, I know it's not funny in any way but you know what I mean).

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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 5:10 pm 
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tinybgoat wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
From the G:

Quote:
Jacob Rees-Mogg, the leading Tory Brexiter, asks why British negotiators ignored the point about having a customs border down the Irish Sea being illegal.

May says her negotiators did not ignore that.


Has anyone heard this one before about an Irish sea border being illegal? I thought there were already a small number of border checks between Northern Ireland and mainland Britain, so I assume Rees-Mogg is talking about a more general principle, but is it really a legal problem or just a political issue?


Think it was this:
http://belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/nort ... 26116.html
but think there was talk over summer of house of lords finding some way to allow house of commons to reconsider it.



Thanks tinybgoat. That does appear to be what Rees-Mogg was referring to and I'd call that a political issue rather than a legal one myself. A straightjacket the government has made for itself. And what exactly were Grieve, Soubry et al doing when that amendment came up. Pfft!

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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 6:54 pm 
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Pfft! perhaps, but how many pages of legislation were there to read through ?


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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 7:16 pm 
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ITMA !

First as tragedy, then as farce. And when that’s exhausted, all that’s left is a third-rate village pantomime. Brexit can make fools of the cleverest people, so has a field day making fools of fools. As a general rule when you haven’t got anything to say, it’s best to say nothing. But Theresa May is now so hopelessly crushed and disorientated, she felt obliged to come to the Commons to give a statement on what hadn’t happened. She hoped this made her sound as if she was still in control of the negotiations, but only proved she wasn’t”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -pantomine


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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 8:51 pm 
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Excellent work from somebody BTL at the guardian

Quote:
We had one million bags of the best Sligo rags
We had two million barrels of stones
We had three million sides of old blind horses' hides
We had four million barrels of bones
We had five million hogs, had six million dogs
Seven million barrels of porter
We had eight million bales of old nanny goats' tails
On the hold at the Irish Border....

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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 9:19 pm 
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The current lead story on the Graun's web front page -Theresa May faces frantic 48 hours to save Brexit plan as talks stall- says

Quote:
A backstop is required to ensure that there is no hard border in Ireland if a comprehensive free trade deal cannot be signed before the end of 2020


...which is plainly wrong. A backstop is required to ensure there is no hard border in Ireland if an agreement can't be reached that goes far beyond a comprehensive free trade deal, including the kind of absence of product standard and phytosanitary checks that only comes with regulatory alignment and international oversight that in turn only comes with the single market. They're confusing 'free trade' with 'frictionless trade'. Again.

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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 9:25 pm 
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That sort of laziness\sloppiness helped get us to the position we're in now.


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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2018 9:27 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
That sort of laziness\sloppiness helped get us to the position we're in now.

Exactly.


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