FlyTheNest

Morning all.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... tte-cooper" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Universal credit is backward step in tackling domestic abuse, MPs warn


Whole Government social policy is historically ammesisc.

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/stephanie-b ... -disabled/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://consult.defra.gov.uk/waste-and- ... -and-buds/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Consultation on proposals to ban the distribution and/or sale of plastic straws, plastic - stemmed cotton buds and plastic drink stirrers in England.


Some people need plastic straws.As with many "green" things the selfish thoughtless pursuit of those with choice IMHO

Good-morning, everyone

HindleA wrote:https://consult.defra.gov.uk/waste-and- ... -and-buds/

Consultation on proposals to ban the distribution and/or sale of plastic straws, plastic - stemmed cotton buds and plastic drink stirrers in England.

Some people need plastic straws.As with many "green" things the selfish thoughtless pursuit of those with choice IMHO

I agree with you and must point out making sustainable straws and cotton buds is possible

I really don't understand why they want to ban plastic straws, as there hasn't been any attempt to encourage people to switch to paper straws voluntarily, yet. With only plastic available no one's had the opportunity to switch to save the planet. Just by making paper straws available to buy or opt for in restaurants the amount of plastic straws being thrown away could be drastically reduced without preventing those who need them from still using them.

With all the plastic packaging out there, used for essential every day things consumed in huge quantities by everyone such as bread, vegetables and frozen food, this obsession with straws in particular as something that needs outright banning makes no sense. Why can't fast food places simply be required to offer both to encourage those for whom it makes no difference to choose paper? Or maybe plastic straws could be provided to those who request them, like in pubs, who have them but only provide them to those who ask.

citizenJA wrote:

HindleA wrote:https://consult.defra.gov.uk/waste-and- ... -and-buds/

Consultation on proposals to ban the distribution and/or sale of plastic straws, plastic - stemmed cotton buds and plastic drink stirrers in England.

Some people need plastic straws.As with many "green" things the selfish thoughtless pursuit of those with choice IMHO

I agree with you and must point out making sustainable straws and cotton buds is possible

I don't think switching plastic for paper in cotton buds makes much difference to anyone. I doubt most people noticed when they switched from paper to plastic in the first place and they won't notice when they switch back, which is happening already with the big supermarkets bowing to pressure from consumers with no need of government interference.

The problem with banning plastic straws is the current absence of suitable alternatives. Paper straws don't perform in all circumstances, especially with hot drinks, and can't, as far as I know, be made with a bend which is essential for some people. Non -disposable straws are just horrid, difficult to keep clean and not suitable for all disabled people. Why pick on straws when you know some people need them? Why not pick on disposable coffee cups or crisp packets or something else that affects everyone equally?

From the LiveThread
Canaryatthewharf @ chinviet-- "We have to wonder whether the UK would give visas to the trade representatives of countries it wanted to negotiate all these super duper FTAs with.
Global Britain seems to be morphing into Little England."

Senex1 @ Canaryatthewharf -- “The UK has already refused visas to trade representatives from Moldova. Moldova is now one of the countries holding up the UK’s admission to the World Trade Organization’s Government Procurement Agreement, which is a market for about 1.7 trillion dollars of public contracts. ”
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... 7-trillion" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Fred Bloggs @ Senex1 -- ” Moldova joining with our good friends in the US, the Ukraine, Israel and New Zealand.
Should add that this despite the UK government claiming we are members of the WTO.”

It's all going splendidly for Dr Fox . And 60 odd million others .

National Audit Office (NAO)

Projects leaving the Government Major Projects Portfolio

Report conclusions
The Portfolio represents the government’s biggest and riskiest projects, which are also intended to produce £650 billion of benefits. The Portfolio was set up to provide more transparency around their performance, as well as to provide extra assurance. Although there is evidence that most projects that have recently left the Portfolio have implemented their planned scope, it is less clear whether they achieve the intended outcomes. For example, there is no corresponding figure for what proportion of the £650 billion of benefits have been realised. Weaknesses in the Authority’s processes in the past have reduced the degree of transparency around many of the 302 projects that have left the Portfolio.

https://www.nao.org.uk/report/projects- ... portfolio/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We do not conclude on whether individual projects have provided value for money.

because we can't
unaccountable use of taxpayers' money

Good morfternoon.

Seb Berry #FBPE #NHSLove
‏ @SebPBerry

Chris Grayling says "it's not government policy to follow one policy or another." We've noticed. #Brexit #peoplesvote #r4today
12:18 am - 22 Oct 2018 (Politics Live, Guardian)

Willow904 wrote:I really don't understand why they want to ban plastic straws, as there hasn't been any attempt to encourage people to switch to paper straws voluntarily, yet. With only plastic available no one's had the opportunity to switch to save the planet. Just by making paper straws available to buy or opt for in restaurants the amount of plastic straws being thrown away could be drastically reduced without preventing those who need them from still using them.

With all the plastic packaging out there, used for essential every day things consumed in huge quantities by everyone such as bread, vegetables and frozen food, this obsession with straws in particular as something that needs outright banning makes no sense. Why can't fast food places simply be required to offer both to encourage those for whom it makes no difference to choose paper? Or maybe plastic straws could be provided to those who request them, like in pubs, who have them but only provide them to those who ask.

Obvious answer - at least it shows that they are "doing something"?

AnatolyKasparov wrote:

Willow904 wrote:I really don't understand why they want to ban plastic straws, as there hasn't been any attempt to encourage people to switch to paper straws voluntarily, yet. With only plastic available no one's had the opportunity to switch to save the planet. Just by making paper straws available to buy or opt for in restaurants the amount of plastic straws being thrown away could be drastically reduced without preventing those who need them from still using them.

With all the plastic packaging out there, used for essential every day things consumed in huge quantities by everyone such as bread, vegetables and frozen food, this obsession with straws in particular as something that needs outright banning makes no sense. Why can't fast food places simply be required to offer both to encourage those for whom it makes no difference to choose paper? Or maybe plastic straws could be provided to those who request them, like in pubs, who have them but only provide them to those who ask.

Obvious answer - at least it shows that they are "doing something"?

So why not ban the plastic bit that keeps beer cans together and frequently strangles sea birds, then? Something no one will miss. There are campaigns for that too if the government's just looking for a popular bandwagon to jump on.

Oh, I completely agree.

AnatolyKasparov wrote:

Willow904 wrote:I really don't understand why they want to ban plastic straws, as there hasn't been any attempt to encourage people to switch to paper straws voluntarily, yet. With only plastic available no one's had the opportunity to switch to save the planet. Just by making paper straws available to buy or opt for in restaurants the amount of plastic straws being thrown away could be drastically reduced without preventing those who need them from still using them.

With all the plastic packaging out there, used for essential every day things consumed in huge quantities by everyone such as bread, vegetables and frozen food, this obsession with straws in particular as something that needs outright banning makes no sense. Why can't fast food places simply be required to offer both to encourage those for whom it makes no difference to choose paper? Or maybe plastic straws could be provided to those who request them, like in pubs, who have them but only provide them to those who ask.

Obvious answer - at least it shows that they are "doing something"?

Probably right, also it's easy to achieve because it's already underway in other countries, so cynically it's just trying to claim credit for something that's happening anyway.


less cynically:
http://uk.businessinsider.com/plastic-s ... any-2018-7" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So why pick on straws?
The anti-straw movement may have first picked up steam because of a viral video that started going around in 2015. Texas A&M graduate student Christine Figgener happened to be out tagging some sea turtles as part of her research in Costa Rica, when she noticed something encrusted in the nose of one of the male turtles...."In a way, that turtle became a poster child,"

Willow904 wrote: So why not ban the plastic bit that keeps beer cans together and frequently strangles sea birds, then? Something no one will miss. There are campaigns for that too if the government's just looking for a popular bandwagon to jump on.

From the Gdn --
"Plastic pack rings – known in the industry as hi-cones or yokes – are connected plastic rings used to hold together multi-packs of canned drinks, particularly beers. A standard packaging device for more than 50 years, they have become an environmental scourge – contributing to growing ocean plastic pollution and posing a threat to marine life.

The new cans will first appear in some Tesco branches in the UK from 10 September, followed by Norway.

Cans in four, or six, or eight-can packs are held together by tiny blobs of a strong glue, which has been designed to withstand a range of temperatures including storage, transportation and then refrigeration in the home. The cans audibly snap when pulled apart, and the glue can be recycled along with the aluminium can."
https://www.theguardian.com/food/2018/s ... lable-glue" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

More significant in tonnage than straws ( thanks for the BI article !) I put heavy duty plastic containers in the 'plastic bottle' bin, rather than direct to landfill...

Now that is interesting, and a bit heartening.

Louise Haigh MP
✔
@LouHaigh

If you think that hijacking an important firearms debate for a proxy row over Brexit is acceptable, you're not fit for public office. (Politics Live, Guardian)

True. And, although the "Brexit" group involved are unlikely to succeed, why is there not more of a vocal condemnation of them? If Theresa May were so-minded, she could really make a big thing of this. Why isn't she doing so?



Edited - to add a "t"

Thanks for all the info and links about plastics, it's been interesting to read. I think a simple shift from proposing "banning" plastic straws to proposing "reducing" the use of plastic straws would really help the conversation and seem less like an unnecessary attack on those who rely on them.

PorFavor wrote:

Louise Haigh MP
✔
@LouHaigh

If you think that hijacking an important firearms debate for a proxy row over Brexit is acceptable, you're not fit for public office. (Politics Live, Guardian)

True. And, although the "Brexit" group involved are unlikely to succeed, why is there no more of a vocal condemnation of them? If Theresa May were so-minded, she could really make a big thing of this. Why isn't she doing so?

Only a few MPs letters away from triggering a confidence vote, if you believe the rumours........

My irony meter has exploded again. May has accused Labour of playing politics with Brexit.

GetYou wrote:My irony meter has exploded again. May has accused Labour of playing politics with Brexit.

Politicians playing politics with a deeply political issue?

I'm shocked etc...

Yes - but she could try to isolate (or "show up") Rees Mogg et al over this. Should be relatively do-able. Makes one wonder . . .


Edited to add -

Well, it makes this one wonder, anyway . . .

Jeremy Corbyn is on his feet. He says the Conservative party has been arguing with itself, without considering the national interest.

He says the deal cannot be 95% done, but also “nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.” He asks which it is? (Politics Live, Guardian)

Quite.

The ERG are also 'playing politics' by visiting M.Barnier.
But I suppose it's OK for a Tory splinter-group to act as an Oposition

Well, that's another "It's all about the Conservative Party. Sod everybody else." session over.

PorFavor wrote:Well, that's another "It's all about the Conservative Party. Sod everybody else." session over.

The needs of people and country are just too much for Tory government.

citizenJA wrote:

PorFavor wrote:Well, that's another "It's all about the Conservative Party. Sod everybody else." session over.

The needs of people and country are just too much for Tory government.

I'm beginning to feel that I'm watching a played-out-in-public, never-ending, expensive (and at our expense) group therapy session.

PorFavor wrote:

citizenJA wrote:

PorFavor wrote:Well, that's another "It's all about the Conservative Party. Sod everybody else." session over.

The needs of people and country are just too much for Tory government.

I'm beginning to feel that I'm watching a played-out-in-public, never-ending, expensive (and at our expense) group therapy session.

Have a Consolation Crace --

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -confusion" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://twitter.com/MartinRowson" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor wrote:

citizenJA wrote:

PorFavor wrote:Well, that's another "It's all about the Conservative Party. Sod everybody else." session over.

The needs of people and country are just too much for Tory government.

I'm beginning to feel that I'm watching a played-out-in-public, never-ending, expensive (and at our expense) group therapy session.

I might not mind so much if it seemed to be having a positive effect.......

Goodnight, everyone
love,
cJA