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Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 7:09 am

Morning all.

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 8:20 am

Constance nursing a hangover."Three shandies",my arse.

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 8:23 am

Fair to say it remains fucking freezing,according to the testicles have disappeared scale.

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 8:24 am

Not coming out until it reaches 35 c

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 8:25 am

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 8:32 am

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... as-housing

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 8:38 am

https://news.sky.com/story/40-people-di ... e-11540038

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 8:42 am

HindleA wrote:https://news.sky.com/story/40-people-died-in-barbaric-secure-hospitals-the-government-pledged-would-close-11540038


I've just watched a bit on the TV news about this. Horrific.

Edited to add -

Thanks for the Stranglers. Hope you've warmed up a bit and will hang around.

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 8:47 am

You've still got your curlers in from last Friday.

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 8:48 am

"Balls"

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 8:55 am

Should go to bed,but as per,I cat nap on recliner.The curtains are closed.Serious point is such Osbornian divisive hate works,discussion last night about who worked in their street according to such nonsense,seemingly unaware it would be applied to them.

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 9:00 am

Also slagging off people on the sick,which they never were,except when they were but that's different.People do my napper in.

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 9:09 am

Constance was my sister's middle name,but she wasn't a cat,as far as I am aware.

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 9:11 am

I was the weak,barely survived one now,despite best efforts still here and stubbornly healthy(subject to change)

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 9:13 am

HindleA wrote:Should go to bed,but as per,I cat nap on recliner.


Now look what you've done. More demands . . .

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 9:31 am

Labour: vote down budget if it fails to halt universal credit rollout

John McDonnell urges MPs to unite to stop the chancellor ‘forcing people into poverty’
(Guardian - from Sunday)


It seems to have gone quiet on this front - or have I missed something?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/oct/28/labour-john-mcdonnell-vote-down-budget-if-it-fails-to-halt-universal-credit-rollout

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 9:39 am

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -procedure

debate-final-brexit-deal-could-use-rare-commons-procedure

The excruciating detail of the imminent Brexit end game....

Good Morning ;-)

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 9:44 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/oct/31/debate-final-brexit-deal-could-use-rare-commons-procedure

debate-final-brexit-deal-could-use-rare-commons-procedure

The excruciating detail of the imminent Brexit end game....

Good Morning ;-)


'Twas the week before Christmas
And all through the House . . .

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 9:45 am

It's been delayed,yet again.Also means fewer people getting transitionally "protected",it's a win win situation and a game for politicos,all support in principle.Also,diverts attention from the most harmful in general which could have been removed for half the money McDonnell is supporting or not opposing.

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 9:47 am

HindleA wrote:It's been delayed,yet again.Also means fewer people getting transitionally "protected",it's a win win situation and a game for politicos,all support in principle.Also,diverts attention from the most harmful in general which could have been removed for half the money McDonnell is supporting or not opposing.


Yes - but "delaying" isn't "stopping" the roll-out. Nothing has changed (to coin a phrase).

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 9:51 am

Thomas Colson

Verified account

@tpgcolson
6m6 minutes ago

Here's what we've learnt from a v. interesting Brexit committee on the 'meaningful vote' this morning:

1. There will essentially be only one vote that really counts. The government will ask MPs to approve or reject the Withdrawal Bill in parliament, HoC clerk David Natzler says.

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 10:09 am

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org. ... ote-brexit

parliament-meaningful-vote-brexit

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 10:10 am

It's obviously very difficult to compare income tax rates across countries but this BBC article from 2014 attempts to and shows that the UK at the time was below the OECD average:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26327114

This is the backdrop against which John McDonnell is failing to oppose tax cuts which will predominantly benefit the better off. I struggle to see how we build a consensus for a higher tax, higher public spending society that seeks to adequately support everyone from the cradle to the grave if we are unwilling to ask those who can afford it to make an adequate contribution. We have a lot of catching up to do income tax wise already if we want a Scandinavian style social democracy. Failing to reverse these cuts, balking at income tax rises, leaves us slipping further behind comparable countries. Suggesting increasing corporation tax and taxes on the very highest earners will be enough is misleading and unhelpful as it's not just about overall tax receipts it's also about inequality, the gap in incomes between the richest and the poorest. Income tax is part of how we reduce that inequality, it's part of the redistribution of wealth that is core to left wing ideology. As long as middle England remain addicted to tax cuts we're doomed to inadequate public services, yet there is no reason to think voters are unwilling to pay for better services. Maybe it's just me, but I feel John McDonnell is being really quite cynical and pessimistic about what kind of country we can be. Appealing to people's inner Tory rather than believing in and encouraging them to be better citizens and part of a more generous and compassionate future.

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 10:29 am

I'm not a fan of Toynbee generally but she was terrific on Newsnight, hard to say whether she was more appalled at Osborne or Evan Davis. Clip here.
https://twitter.com/thepileus/status/10 ... 0061002752

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 10:40 am

IMO selling the northern european social model of high taxes and high services to the UK population is a long term project, one which I'd very much like to see Corbyn and McDonnell embark on if/when Labour get in.
I'm not at all sure that they should be trying to do it now.
If Brexit goes through the last thing we're going to need in the short term is higher taxes. A deflationary first budget from Labour would be appalling with a recession looming or already in full swing.

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 10:47 am

gilsey wrote:I'm not a fan of Toynbee generally but she was terrific on Newsnight, hard to say whether she was more appalled at Osborne or Evan Davis. Clip here.
https://twitter.com/thepileus/status/10 ... 0061002752


Yes - I noticed that it had caused a bit of a stir, so I watched it earlier. She was rather impressive.

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 10:51 am

gilsey wrote:IMO selling the northern european social model of high taxes and high services to the UK population is a long term project, one which I'd very much like to see Corbyn and McDonnell embark on if/when Labour get in.
I'm not at all sure that they should be trying to do it now.
If Brexit goes through the last thing we're going to need in the short term is higher taxes. A deflationary first budget from Labour would be appalling with a recession looming or already in full swing.



I'm not sure how long we've got, though, before we reach (for the foreseeable future) the point of no return.

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 10:57 am

This may be an unpopular view here but I'm not against raising the higher rate threshold, it's been held back for a very long time now. Of course there's no justification for bringing it forward a year.

I'm not at all in favour of the personal allowance hikes which don't benefit the poorest at all and have shrunk our tax base to a ridiculous extent while giving the tories a good line to feed to the MSM, who swallow it hook, line and sinker.

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 11:01 am

PorFavor wrote:I'm not sure how long we've got, though, before we reach (for the foreseeable future) the point of no return.

If I thought there was a point of no return, I'd think we'd already passed it, if you see what I mean.

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 11:07 am

gilsey wrote:
PorFavor wrote:I'm not sure how long we've got, though, before we reach (for the foreseeable future) the point of no return.

If I thought there was a point of no return, I'd think we'd already passed it, if you see what I mean.


Ha! I was just about to go back to my post and edit it because "point of no return for the foreseeable future" is a bit of an odd thing to have said. I think, for example, I (sort of) mean that I can envisage someone in the 21st century saying (to universal acclaim), "I know, what about a national health service - free at the point of use?"

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 11:07 am

gilsey wrote:I'm not a fan of Toynbee generally but she was terrific on Newsnight, hard to say whether she was more appalled at Osborne or Evan Davis. Clip here.
https://twitter.com/thepileus/status/10 ... 0061002752


Davis did have a real go at Osborne, though. Which was pretty shocking, but in a good way.

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 11:16 am

Iain Duncan Smith, of all people, stood up in the Commons and said it was wrong to fund tax cuts for the better off while taking £30 a week from those too unwell to work.

And here we go again, the proceeds of on going cuts to working age benefits, to benefits for the sick and disabled and children are being given away predominantly to the top 10% of earners. It's wrong, and I expect John McDonnell to say so, over and over again until people can no longer lie to themselves about where the extra pounds in their pockets are coming from.

What Labour might do is for a future manifesto, where they can set out a full range of interrelated measures. For now, they need to call out the Tories approach for what it is, a grotesque transfer of wealth from the poorest to the richest.

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 11:48 am

good-morning, everyone

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 12:12 pm

arcane parliamentary procedure, protocol, labyrinthine ins and outs wasting lives and time
Is there an MP writing up an understandable and explanatory daily log My Job As An MP?

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 12:13 pm

Lisa O'Carroll

Lisa O'Carroll

Environment secretary Michael Gove has come under fire after he said there was no “scope” for guarantees in his new agriculture bill over chlorinated chicken imported after Brexit.

Tory MP Neil Parish*, chair of the environment select committee told Gove that such a guarantee would merely be putting his previous declarations about food safety into law. At a committee hearing this morning he asked:

What harm would it do to put [guarantees]in the bill? I don’t see why you are so adamant it can’t go there when your whole raison d’etre of British agriculture in the future is to have higher welfare standards.

Concerns about the bill, which represents the biggest reform to agriculture since the 1940s, have already been raised by the National Farmers Union for its lack of emphasis on food post Brexit. (Politics Live, Guardian)


*Tiverton and Honiton

Parish opposes, and voted against the implementation of same sex marriage, stating that he feels the issue is "for the Church and Christians to decide [upon], not for parliament to legislate."

Otherwise, he makes a good point.

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 12:15 pm

Willow904 wrote:Iain Duncan Smith, of all people, stood up in the Commons and said it was wrong to fund tax cuts for the better off while taking £30 a week from those too unwell to work.
---
(cJA edit)

IDS is trolling us all

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 12:21 pm

May says the government has put more money into universal credit.
Sinking billions into costly, badly devised, dysfunctional infrastructure isn't providing people with their lawful social security entitlements

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 12:32 pm

citizenJA wrote:arcane parliamentary procedure, protocol, labyrinthine ins and outs wasting lives and time
Is there an MP writing up an understandable and explanatory daily log My Job As An MP?


The late and still much missed Tony Banks wrote a very good book about it in the 1990s.

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 12:37 pm

Theresa May is having trouble getting her words out tday.

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 12:38 pm

Absolute shambles of a PMQs today.

Impossible to listen to either May or Corbyn. Corbyn's constant shouting in particular is very hard to follow, which presumably is the point.

And May's repeated stumbling over her words seems to be getting worse, too.

Far from reassuring.

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 12:42 pm

PMQs - Snap verdict: That sounded like a high-score draw

Today he[Jeremy Corbyn] never quite managed to deliver a knock-out blow, but the very fact that he held May to a draw only two days after the government unveiled the highest spending budget for a decade or more probably counts as a win of sorts. (Politics Live, Guardian)


What?

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 12:43 pm

Corbyn often shouts because he needs to, given the din a group of Tory MPs makes whenever he speaks.

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 1:13 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Corbyn often shouts because he needs to, given the din a group of Tory MPs makes whenever he speaks.


Yes, I get that's the point of the noise. Doesn't help me understand what he's saying though. And the din was constant through May's replies today as well. Hence the shambles. It's often been the same in the past, but the impending disaster threatening to derail our economy and standard of living to unprecedented degree makes the whole circus more frustrating than ever.

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 1:18 pm

PorFavor wrote:
PMQs - Snap verdict: That sounded like a high-score draw

Today he[Jeremy Corbyn] never quite managed to deliver a knock-out blow, but the very fact that he held May to a draw only two days after the government unveiled the highest spending budget for a decade or more probably counts as a win of sorts. (Politics Live, Guardian)


What?


The old "TANKS ON LABOUR'S LAWN" schtick again? Amazing (or perhaps not) how our media fall for it hook line and sinker - every single time.

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 1:43 pm

PorFavor wrote:
PMQs - Snap verdict: That sounded like a high-score draw

Today he[Jeremy Corbyn] never quite managed to deliver a knock-out blow, but the very fact that he held May to a draw only two days after the government unveiled the highest spending budget for a decade or more probably counts as a win of sorts. (Politics Live, Guardian)

What?
Maybe some unhinged person kidnapped Sparrow's dog & made him write that
I'm joking
I'm frightened

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 1:45 pm

Willow904 wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Corbyn often shouts because he needs to, given the din a group of Tory MPs makes whenever he speaks.


Yes, I get that's the point of the noise. Doesn't help me understand what he's saying though. And the din was constant through May's replies today as well. Hence the shambles. It's often been the same in the past, but the impending disaster threatening to derail our economy and standard of living to unprecedented degree makes the whole circus more frustrating than ever.
We're in the hands of unstable persons and I'm scared.

edited to add
I'm scared of this unstable Tory government
Last edited by citizenJA on Wed 31 Oct, 2018 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 1:48 pm

Corbyn failed to land a knockout blow because he went for the angle of comparing the ongoing austerity for lower earners to tax cuts for higher earners, an approach already spiked by McDonnell's well publicised lack of opposition to the latter.
The consensus among political pundits appears to be in McDonnell's favour, while on this occasion I'm on Corbyn's side.

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 2:54 pm

@Willow904

Ah - this makes it clearer and much more understandable to me (and I hope makes it better for you to bear, too) -

Jeremy Corbyn’s spokesman has said that it was the “wrong choice” to give tax cuts to high earners in the budget but that the party could not reverse them, suggesting its hands were tied by a manifesto commitment it had made not to increase tax on 95% on[sic] earners. The spokesman told journalists:

We will be voting against the budget but in relation to the specific proposals on tax allowances, as John McDonnell has made clear, we support putting more money into the pockets of lower and middle income earners. We are not going to oppose that. In the budget resolutions it is impossible to separate out the top 5%. But giving tax cuts to the highest earners is obviously wrong as the government is refusing to halt the benefit freeze. (Politics Live, Guardian)

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 3:40 pm

It's just all over the place.

Saying they wouldn't put up income tax from where it was during the 2017 election doesn't stop them from opposing a tax cut now or forces them to maintain that cut in a future manifesto. Labour doesn't need to commit to a tax policy at all, they're in opposition.

Besides, I don't really agree with their taxing "top 5% and corporations" only policy more generally. Tory tax erosion is a huge problem building up for the future and consequently such a commitment is going to seriously tie their hands if they ever get into power.

Re: Wednesday 31st October 2018

Wed 31 Oct, 2018 3:49 pm

Ten local council byelections last week:

South Derbyshire DC - Tory hold with over 60 percent of the vote and an increase of 20 points, defeating Labour by almost 2 to 1. This ward returned 2 Labour members back in 2003, but the Tories missed out on getting a seat only by the drawing of lots - and they duly won both seats in 2007 and repeated that in 2011 and 2015. The latter time UKIP polled a substantial vote in third place, their absence this time certainly helped the Tories but the very lopsided nature of the vote "transfer" (Labour's share only inched up) indicates that this part of the world is moving in their direction more generally. LibDems the only others standing and got less than 5% - little changed on three years ago.

Mendip DC - LibDem win on almost half the vote, whilst reported as a gain from the Tories this is not strictly correct - whilst the departing councillor was Tory, they had been elected back in 2015 as a LibDem as that party took both seats as they had done in 2007 (the first post boundary change election here) though the Tories had narrowly managed to take a seat in 2011. The result now was a modest swing to the LibDems since then compared to little change since three years ago, so this ward seems likely to remain competitive. Labour scored about 11%, again not much changed on their previous showing here in 2011.

Suffolk CC - a narrow Tory hold in a division which voted for them last year after a lengthy period in LibDem hands, though the Tories had often been competitive - only losing narrowly in both 2005 and 2013. Holding onto their 2017 share of 45% proved crucial as the LibDems gained 5 points to finish only 1% behind, but they are still likely to have been disappointed by this result given their past history. They are not likely to have been pleased by Labour improving a couple of points to 10%, their best showing here since 2005.

Sutton - Tory hold in one of their few reliable wards here, returning three members for them in every election since 2002 - though a double figure swing to the LibDems took their share below half and made this vaguely marginal for the first time since 2010 (when GE turnout boosted the LibDem showing) They were surely helped by the Labour share dropping 6 points since earlier this year to around 10%, but that still had Labour well ahead of the also-rans who sat the May poll out - Greens on 2% just ahead of UKIP, and then finally the Christian Peoples Alliance on 1%.

East Dorset DC/Dorset CC - a "double header" here and the end of an era locally, as this looks pretty certain to be the last Dorset contests before the area moves to unitary status with elections in May next year. That adds a bit of interest to what was otherwise a pair of routine Tory holds in normally "true blue" territory - the district ward duly returned three Tories in 2015 comfortably ahead of UKIP (the first post boundary change election) and the Tories improved to almost 60% now, though the LibDems now returned to the fray after sitting that election out and took second place ahead of UKIP who had a double figure drop to 16%. The county division was even safer for the Tories though they actually dropped seven points whilst the LibDems doubled their share to 21%, overtaking UKIP even though the latter managed a small increase of their own to nearly 18%. Another quirk of this one - not only were the three parties identical in each contest, but the candidates as well!

Ashford DC - Tory hold, though they were pushed hard by the localist Ashford Independents who achieved a shock result here in 2011 when they took this traditionally very safe single member ward (the Tories had been unopposed at the previous 2007 poll) only for the winner to go over to the Tories and win it comfortably come 2015. Their resignation as a protest over housing plans created a new opening for the Indies, however - and they improved by over 20 points to 38%, only 3% behind and a swing of around 15 points. Labour improved slightly on three years ago, and the Greens took 6% after sitting that one out.

Hertfordshire CC - LibDem gain from Tory with over half the vote and a swing of over 9% since last year, this was a division which was basically newly created for that election but the result then - a narrow Tory win - was backed up by the relevant ward results in Three Rivers DC earlier this year when the two parties were almost neck and neck, so the LibDems can certainly be pleased with this result. Most of the movement was between the two main parties as well as the others remained totally squeezed out - Labour unchanged on 4% then UKIP slightly up and Greens last with 2%, down a point on 2017.

Basingstoke and Deane DC - Labour hold with approaching 70% in a ward that has been reliable for them ever since electing 3 councillors for the red team in the 2002 all-out elections (even the subsequent all-out elections in 2008 - a national low point - did not see their grip seriously threatened) and there was a modest swing to them from the Tories since earlier this year of around 3%. 6% went to an (ex-Tory) Independent, slightly up on earlier this year, just ahead of the LibDems who were little changed.

North Lanarkshire - Labour hold in a division that split 2Nat/2Lab in last year's elections, but the SNP comfortably topped the poll then and a win for them this time would have seen them become the joint biggest party - and the swing to them in 2017 was considerable; the previous slightly smaller predecessor division in had split 2Lab/1Nat in both 2007 and 2012. Last time round Labour only just scraped the second seat, challenged by both the Tories and an ex-Labour Independent; an ex-SNP Independent also stood (though polling more modestly) and with both absent this time the question of where their votes went was likely to be crucial. As it was Labour was very much the beneficiary increasing by 12 points to over 41% and thus coming just ahead on first preferences over the SNP, who had a small decline. Tories improved a few points to 15%, well ahead of the minor parties who did not stand a year ago; Greens on just 1%, but still polling more than UKIP and the LibDems combined - the latter being driven into the wooden spoon spot by a single vote.

Three contests tomorrow to start the new month.
Topic locked