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PostPosted: Sun 04 Nov, 2018 10:58 am 
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PostPosted: Sun 04 Nov, 2018 12:01 pm 
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regrets “unleashing the demons” that have come from that vote for Brexit. Words fail #marr

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PostPosted: Sun 04 Nov, 2018 12:03 pm 
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Chris Grey's latest roundup, always worth reading.
http://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/

He raises something I first thought about a few weeks ago, good to see it in the public domain.
Quote:
Given how strongly people feel about Brexit, the best way to think about the principle here is to forget that it is Brexit which is at stake and imagine it simply in the abstract: what should happen to a vote about anything in such circumstances? From that perspective, first, we need to establish definitively if the law was breached and then, if it was, there seems a compelling argument for a re-run of the vote. (This is quite separate from the argument about a People’s Vote on the final deal: it’s an argument for an exact re-run of the ‘in or out’ question, although undoubtedly the campaigns would be different in the light of what has been learned about Brexit since 2016).

The People's Vote campaign seems to me to founder on the fact that there won't be a deal to vote on, only a 'political declaration', pondering on that led me to think about actually another ref with the same question and the more I thought about it, the more it made sense.
Won't know what Leave means you say? Nor did we the first time, but now we know much more about the implications of not knowing. If you see what I mean.

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PostPosted: Sun 04 Nov, 2018 12:16 pm 
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Well, if even Arron Banks is wondering whether Brexit is worth the bother, maybe we do need to ask the question again, just to make sure!

Edited to change Aaron to Arron. Keep getting his name wrong. I believe psychologically speaking that's supposed to be a sign of a lack of respect. What can I say? ;)

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PostPosted: Sun 04 Nov, 2018 12:26 pm 
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https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/stat ... 8973754368

I warned the editor of #Marr that @arron_banks would seek to smear & defame me. Which he did. I had to pre-record to talk about Banks on @bbc. Why was this live? Why was he allowed to take his "emails" on air & trash talk me? Why was I given no chance to respond?Carole Cadwalladr ajouté,


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Nov, 2018 12:28 pm 
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frog222 wrote:
https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1059056808973754368

I warned the editor of #Marr that @arron_banks would seek to smear & defame me. Which he did. I had to pre-record to talk about Banks on @bbc. Why was this live? Why was he allowed to take his "emails" on air & trash talk me? Why was I given no chance to respond?Carole Cadwalladr ajouté,


I don't always agree with her, but she has a low bull***t toleration level - almost invariably a good sign.


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Nov, 2018 1:31 pm 
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1m50 ” We’re the only country in the world where people can come in, have a baby, and it’s automatically a citizen of the USA .”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDcOOvpEIcA



” THIRTY other countries have the same birth right for citizenship, but actually they don’t give out US citizenship … "

so for once DJT is right ! ”

Tho he meant something completely different . Of course.


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Nov, 2018 2:32 pm 
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And, if you weren't actually born in the USA - the land of opportunity, where anything is possible - you don't stand a chance of becoming the President. The land of opportunity where your dreams and hard work can take you to etc etc. That's always struck me as a bit of an "off" note.


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Nov, 2018 2:48 pm 
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Good morfternoon.


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Nov, 2018 3:02 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
And, if you weren't actually born in the USA - the land of opportunity, where anything is possible - you don't stand a chance of becoming the President. The land of opportunity where your dreams and hard work can take you to etc etc. That's always struck me as a bit of an "off" note.
based upon the notion the place born determines allegiance
fear the executive office might be held by someone with conflicting loyalties
I don't agree with notion but I think that was the justification


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Nov, 2018 3:02 pm 
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Good-afternoon, everyone


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Nov, 2018 3:40 pm 
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I pledge alliance to liberty and justice for all
we share the only environment we're all relying upon
land and life are connected regardless of national boundaries


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Nov, 2018 4:03 pm 
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I was wondering if this report from a friend is accurate --

" Arron Banks – sweaty, evasive, bullying. That’s all you need to know.

He even tried firing a super injunction barb at Marr. Only satirists can do that, not pieces of shit like him.

Be glad you didn’t have to see his face, frog.
"

Damned if I'm going to find it ALL on youtube :-)


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Nov, 2018 4:18 pm 
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I enjoyed this on a quote from today’s Wm Keegan —

” SteveInBavaria 8h ago

WK : — “I was much struck by Tory Remainer Sarah Wollaston’s analogy: a patient may have signed an agreement for surgery to take place; but he or she should be at liberty to change their mind when confronted with new and more enlightening information. I think that is what is happening with regard to Brexit."

” Here’s my analogy: If you officially inform your wife that you are leaving her and apply for divorce because your mates told you she was cheating on you, it would be arrogant and foolish to assume that she would take you back two years later, after you have finally realised how much the whole thing will actually cost you and that your mates were lying to you anyway.”

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... t-disaster

Bill is 80, but he was on the march too !


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Nov, 2018 4:23 pm 
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I wonder :-)


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Nov, 2018 5:51 pm 
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Gone a bit quiet again innit.

Any thoughts on May's alleged deal?


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Nov, 2018 5:56 pm 
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frog222 wrote:
I was wondering if this report from a friend is accurate --

" Arron Banks – sweaty, evasive, bullying. That’s all you need to know.

He even tried firing a super injunction barb at Marr. Only satirists can do that, not pieces of shit like him.

Be glad you didn’t have to see his face, frog.
"

Damned if I'm going to find it ALL on youtube :-)


He (AB) was certainly very blustering and not very measured or forensic in his replies - given that he'd had time to prepare\rehearse for the interview. Not a convincing performance.


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Nov, 2018 6:13 pm 
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Thanks for the confirmation PF :-)

Have a Sunday Crace --

Marr founders on the Rocks of Arron Banks's muddy waters

" Last week Arron Banks said he was pleased to have been referred to the National Crime Agency by the Electoral Commission. There were many other people who were also pleased that the man who had given £8m to Leave.EU had been referred to the NCA. A rare outbreak of shared happiness between Banks and his critics. "

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... ddy-waters


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Nov, 2018 6:28 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Gone a bit quiet again innit.

Any thoughts on May's alleged deal?


From what I read on the front page of the ST it sounded as if she'd agreed with the EU that the way to get round the border issue was for the UK to stay in the Customs Union.

Is this one of those occasions where people are going to deny ever wanting to leave the CU and pretend they've been in favour all along?

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PostPosted: Sun 04 Nov, 2018 7:10 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Gone a bit quiet again innit.

Any thoughts on May's alleged deal?


Slugger O'Toole has summary of it, he's usually a good alternative to reading the actual times article (though that's maybe faint praise),
but it sounds like cans being kicked even further down road.
https://sluggerotoole.com/2018/11/04/br ... day-times/


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Nov, 2018 7:26 pm 
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It'll only fly if they can find a way to pretend we can still do our own trade deals and it's only temporary until we develop the magic invisible border technology (or NI votes to join ROI and the whole thing goes away) but it's either CU for whole UK or an Irish Sea border & an Irish Sea border is an even harder sell (the DUP have less to lose from scuppering a deal than May so are unlikely to cave) so CU it most likely will be.

Will the SNP do a deal on another independence referendum to give May the votes she'll need to outflank the ERG or will the ERG prove to be all mouth and settle for Brexit of any hue? Or will May simply roll the dice and take the win-win of a Labour rebellion helping it through whilst splitting the opposition accrimoniously or else have Labour "block Brexit" and see them blamed by leave voters forever more when she is "forced" to revoke article 50 by the opposition's treachery?

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PostPosted: Sun 04 Nov, 2018 8:50 pm 
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For a change -- ” On a similar note, Sen. Joe Donnelly’s (D-IN) campaign has been running Facebook ads for libertarian Lucy Brenton claiming she is the “true anti-tax conservative.”

This blatant rat**king, which is a clear effort to divide the right-leaning vote, has outraged Donald Trump, who apparently feels that his party should have a monopoly on dirty tricks. “

https://www.electoral-vote.com/

One wonders what the UK Electoral Commission might make of that :-)


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Nov, 2018 9:38 pm 
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Apparently Paul Dacre is making some acceptance speech or other for an award he's been given ...

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Paul Dacre has spent a good ten minutes or so criticising former Guardian editor's Alan Rusbridger's book, saying it is "mean-spirited" and contains the most "unpleasant ad-hominem attacks" he has read while working on Fleet Street. He is still not happy with the Guardian.

11:42 AM - 4 Nov 2018


:roll:

Other people are mean-spirited eh?

Wonder what Ed Miliband thinks about that...

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PostPosted: Sun 04 Nov, 2018 9:44 pm 
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frog222 wrote:
I was wondering if this report from a friend is accurate --

" Arron Banks – sweaty, evasive, bullying. That’s all you need to know.

He even tried firing a super injunction barb at Marr. Only satirists can do that, not pieces of shit like him.

Be glad you didn’t have to see his face, frog.
"

Damned if I'm going to find it ALL on youtube :-)


Arron Sweater... (maybe he was misnamed after the wrong island)


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Nov, 2018 9:44 pm 
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tinybgoat wrote:
frog222 wrote:
I was wondering if this report from a friend is accurate --

" Arron Banks – sweaty, evasive, bullying. That’s all you need to know.

He even tried firing a super injunction barb at Marr. Only satirists can do that, not pieces of shit like him.

Be glad you didn’t have to see his face, frog.
"

Damned if I'm going to find it ALL on youtube :-)


Arron Sweater... (maybe he was misnamed after the wrong island)

Boom boom ;-)


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Nov, 2018 10:42 pm 
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citizenJA wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
And, if you weren't actually born in the USA - the land of opportunity, where anything is possible - you don't stand a chance of becoming the President. The land of opportunity where your dreams and hard work can take you to etc etc. That's always struck me as a bit of an "off" note.
based upon the notion the place born determines allegiance
fear the executive office might be held by someone with conflicting loyalties
I don't agree with notion but I think that was the justification


I think it's worth adding that, like an awful lot of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, it's because this was 1789, and it's not long since the colonies had seen off the King after being sick of being ruled from overseas, and had gone from colonies to states that didn't even entirely trust each other or the federal government they were inventing.

There is a get out to the 'born here' clause - you could become President if you were legally resident in the country at the time the constitution came into force
:)

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PostPosted: Sun 04 Nov, 2018 11:03 pm 
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Sorry about not doing the Question Time thing the other night but I came down with some hellish bug on Tuesday, tried to ignore it and go about my business and now I've got a really shitty sinus infection.

You know when your ears get bunged up due to altitude changes and you can feel the pressure? Imagine feeling that in your whole head all of the time.

With loads of snot.

Anyway I witnessed a proper gang fireworks fight on Wednesday. I live next door to a park so I'm used to kids letting off fireworks but this seemed louder, loads of fireworks and angry shouting, so I went upstairs for a better view.

There were two gangs of kids, about 30 on either side and they were genuinely launching fireworks at each other in what could only be described as primitive fusillades. But fireworks by their nature are not accurate weapons so many of them were flying directly into the houses on the street. I ended up ringing the police who told me they already knew about it and a couple of minutes later two police vans arrived and the kids scattered. As far as I could see the police didn't catch a single one of them.


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Nov, 2018 11:39 pm 
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The Columnist


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1. The curious case of the unpopular Brexit Deal that *everyone* seems to think will happen. Why it will, why it might not, and, most importantly, why it shouldn’t. [Thread]

https://twitter.com/Sime0nStylites/stat ... 5316945921

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PostPosted: Sun 04 Nov, 2018 11:42 pm 
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I didn't see the interview Marr had this morning with Aaron Banks.

Did he ask him why he'd sent violent threats to Carole Cadwalladr?

he posted a spoof video of me, beaten up and threatened with a gun, as the Russian national anthem played

I very much doubt it.


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Nov, 2018 11:42 pm 
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Nicola Sturgeon

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This thread is worth a read. It is bang on that we mustn’t buy the falsehood that the only choice is a bad deal v no deal. There are alternatives for the UK - eg single market/customs union, extension of Art 50, another vote.

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PostPosted: Sun 04 Nov, 2018 11:46 pm 
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Sky'sGoneOut wrote:
I didn't see the interview Marr had this morning with Aaron Banks.

Did he ask him why he'd sent violent threats to Carole Cadwalladr?

he posted a spoof video of me, beaten up and threatened with a gun, as the Russian national anthem played

I very much doubt it.

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More Carole Cadwalladr Retweeted Carole Cadwalladr
I warned the editor of #Marr that @arron_banks would seek to smear & defame me. Which he did. I had to pre-record to talk about Banks on @bbc. Why was this live? Why was he allowed to take his "emails" on air & trash talk me? Why was I given no chance to respond?

I didn't see it either but I assume that's AQTWTAIN.

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PostPosted: Mon 05 Nov, 2018 12:27 am 
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These pieces of shit think they are above the law and unfortunately they're right until they poke their heads above the other poppies and make themselves apparent.

What these investigations show is that unless you make yourself a target for scrutiny you can get away with pretty much fucking anything.

If he hadn't gifted Leave.EU with millions nobody would have found out his South African diamond mines were ghost towns.

It seems there's something seriously wrong with crony capitalism.


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