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 Post subject: Friday 9th November 2018
PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 7:05 am 
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Morning all.


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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 7:20 am 
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Curses,one weekday morning I'll get home and beat that Refitman (not that I am competitive or anything)

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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 7:25 am 
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Start/end;end/start.

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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 7:55 am 
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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... r-day-week

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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 10:20 am 
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Does seem to be one extreme or the other,I like avoiding work for 60hrs p.w. or so but I have choice

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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 10:33 am 
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Not many stay for any length of time,a sort of continual rotation between different firms for the most part,fair few from sports direct.

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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 10:35 am 
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Driving a car scrubber around,what's not to like.

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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 10:45 am 
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Aditya on form --

Let’s stop lining housebuilders’ pockets and tax them instead
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -122327507

I had no idea the figures were so huge :

” What began as a three-year programme worth £3.5bn will now run until 2023 and suck in more than £29bn of taxpayer money.

In Austerity Britain, this may be the single biggest giveaway to one small group of businesspeople – and it gets barely any attention. The scheme may have helped some first-time buyers on to the ladder, but by inflating prices, it has kept many others off. Add to it quantitative easing and the erosion of stamp duty, and the British state has looked after housebuilders like no other. ”

Those grotesquely high salaries are an example of Michael Young’s dystopian “meritocracy” in action (IMO ! ). The recipients had no particular merit, were just plain ‘lucky’ to have a tool like Osborne as Chancellor. In fact my architect CEO mate who’s just retired described Persimmon as a ” really shitty company” to deal with.


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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 10:54 am 
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Just thinking that the Raab thing could (probably entirely inadvertently) have been very clever.

If you were just about to announce a "Deal" that contained something like a Customs Union, it might be quite helpful to have the whole country realising that we can't really have customs!


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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 11:11 am 
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Two by-elections in bellwether Harlow last night both with Labour and Tories increasing their vote at the expense of UKIP and (slightly) Libs. Labour hold both.

I look forward to the full analysis later, but no real evidence that a stronger pro-Brexit stance is needed electorally IMHO.


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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 11:20 am 
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Bizarrely Iceland supermarket being treated as heroes on Twitter.

The story seems to be that they wanted to advertise that their products were palm oil free, but weren't allowed to.

The conspiracy is that Malaysia want to keep this campaign under wraps. And yes we sell them lots of arms.

Anyone know more?


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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 11:47 am 
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PFY -- twit-link SVP ?

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/ ... -orangutan


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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 12:00 pm 
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Are they 'armless?

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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 12:04 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Two by-elections in bellwether Harlow last night both with Labour and Tories increasing their vote at the expense of UKIP and (slightly) Libs. Labour hold both.

I look forward to the full analysis later, but no real evidence that a stronger pro-Brexit stance is needed electorally IMHO.


Not quite correct if the results are compared with this May (the widely quoted Britain Elects figures are from when the vacancy in question was last contested, usually straightforward for all-outs but less so for one thirds election)

More later :)


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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 1:50 pm 
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If a candidate 'concedes' an election in the US, do they stop counting the remaining votes?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... rew-gillum


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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 1:59 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
I look forward to the full analysis later, but no real evidence that a stronger pro-Brexit stance is needed electorally IMHO.


Though given the generally dismal LibDem performance yesterday, not much evidence Labour needs a stronger anti-Brexit stance either? ;)


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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 2:05 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Bizarrely Iceland supermarket being treated as heroes on Twitter.

The story seems to be that they wanted to advertise that their products were palm oil free, but weren't allowed to.

The conspiracy is that Malaysia want to keep this campaign under wraps. And yes we sell them lots of arms.

Anyone know more?
Quote:
"Earlier this year, Iceland became the first major UK supermarket to pledge to remove palm oil from all its own-brand foods. Habitat loss in countries such as Malaysia – a major global producer of palm oil – has contributed to the orangutan now being classified as critically endangered.

Clearcast, the body responsible for vetting ads before they are broadcast to the public, said it was in breach of rules banning political advertising laid down by the 2003 Communications Act."

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/ ... -orangutan
(cJA emphasis)
What is political about advertising products helping prevent habitat loss by not using ingredients destroying it? I can understand the ad getting pulled if they're making other misleading claims but the political breach isn't there, in my opinion. The only ad breach mentioned in the article linked above was political. Is it the Greenpeace involvement making it political? Is it appropriate pulling the ad calling it a political breach based upon that? When I think of Greenpeace, I think of environmental protection.

I've never heard of Clearcast; there was no link in the article explaining it.
Quote:
Great adverts stay with you. They may only run for a few seconds, but during that time they connect with your emotions in a lasting manner.

We’re best known for clearing ads. In the UK, broadcasters aren’t allowed to show ads that are misleading, harmful or offensive. So before ads are shown, we check them against the UK Code of Broadcast Advertising (the BCAP Code), which sets out what is and isn’t permitted.
Quote:
CLEARCAST
We exist to enable advertising.
We do more than clear ads.
We love ads!

https://www.clearcast.co.uk/about/
The agency in charge of what which ads we see or hear loves ads.
The code they've mentioned above had a bad link. I've found the 144 page BCAP code linked below.
Quote:
The BCAP Code
The UK Code of Broadcast Advertising
v1.2.19
https://www.asa.org.uk/uploads/assets/u ... d57e7f.pdf


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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 2:11 pm 
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Is that right? Clearcast - UK ad arbiters?
What's their relationship to the Advertising Standards Authority (ASA)?

https://www.asa.org.uk/


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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 2:12 pm 
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Hello, everyone


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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 2:19 pm 
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frog222 wrote:
If a candidate 'concedes' an election in the US, do they stop counting the remaining votes?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... rew-gillum


Presumably somebody can "un-concede" if evidence that concession was premature comes to light?


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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 2:40 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
frog222 wrote:
If a candidate 'concedes' an election in the US, do they stop counting the remaining votes?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... rew-gillum


Presumably somebody can "un-concede" if evidence that concession was premature comes to light?


Yes. I think conceding is based on how things look as though they are going to pan out, and is just a sort of traditional courtesy thing. Don't quote me . . .


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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 2:59 pm 
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Sorry - good morfternoon.


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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 3:00 pm 
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@PorFavor
You're right

Dignity, always dignity
:rock:


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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 3:05 pm 
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My lengthy post above might bury too much I think important. Was everyone aware of this organisation and its remit? This is just bizarre: 'We Love Ads'

https://www.clearcast.co.uk/about/


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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 3:30 pm 
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No punches pulled in this interview with Anna Soubry

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... rty-brexit
Quote:
“If he becomes leader, then I’m off,” she says. “I’m not serving in the same party as Boris Johnson. He’s proved that he’s incapable of holding high office, never mind being prime minister. He’s not true to what he believes in. It was almost a flick of a coin whether it was leave or remain. It was all for his own purposes. I have no time for him.”


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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 3:41 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
No punches pulled in this interview with Anna Soubry

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... rty-brexit
Quote:
“If he becomes leader, then I’m off,” she says. “I’m not serving in the same party as Boris Johnson. He’s proved that he’s incapable of holding high office, never mind being prime minister. He’s not true to what he believes in. It was almost a flick of a coin whether it was leave or remain. It was all for his own purposes. I have no time for him.”
Has Soubry resigned as a Tory MP? Or is she still in the same party as Johnson?


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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 4:08 pm 
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Talking of Johnson B, his brother has apparently just quit as a government minister.


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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 4:19 pm 
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citizenJA wrote:
My lengthy post above might bury too much I think important. Was everyone aware of this organisation and its remit? This is just bizarre: 'We Love Ads'
https://www.clearcast.co.uk/about/
That looks like yet another sinecure for the quangocracy :-)


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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 4:20 pm 
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And he is calling for another Brexit referendum!


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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 4:42 pm 
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Hahaha !

" Digested week, digested: Breaking news: Britain is an island that is quite near to France "

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... aab-island


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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 4:55 pm 
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Would love to be a fly on the wall at the next Johnson family get together tbh :)


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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 5:03 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Would love to be a fly on the wall at the next Johnson family get together tbh :)
I'd prefer being the dragon


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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 5:11 pm 
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frog222 wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
My lengthy post above might bury too much I think important. Was everyone aware of this organisation and its remit? This is just bizarre: 'We Love Ads'
https://www.clearcast.co.uk/about/
That looks like yet another sinecure for the quangocracy :-)
It's far more serious, think of the power this entity has
Quote:
In the UK, broadcasters aren’t allowed to show ads that are misleading, harmful or offensive.
So before ads are shown, we check them against the UK Code of Broadcast Advertising (the BCAP Code), which sets out what is and isn’t permitted.
Take a quick look at that webpage, it won't take very long


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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 5:31 pm 
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citizenJA wrote:
frog222 wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
My lengthy post above might bury too much I think important. Was everyone aware of this organisation and its remit? This is just bizarre: 'We Love Ads' https://www.clearcast.co.uk/about/
That looks like yet another sinecure for the quangocracy :-)
It's far more serious, think of the power this entity has
Quote:
In the UK, broadcasters aren’t allowed to show ads that are misleading, harmful or offensive.
So before ads are shown, we check them against the UK Code of Broadcast Advertising (the BCAP Code), which sets out what is and isn’t permitted.
Take a quick look at that webpage, it won't take very long

I looked :-)

"" Clearcast is the body responsible for clearing ads on behalf of the four major UK commercial broadcasters.

We assess all ads against the rules of the UK Code of Broadcast Advertising; Clearcast is not a regulator and we do not ban ads. The Iceland ad submitted to us is a Greenpeace film which has been appearing on the Greenpeace website for a number of months.

The specific rule Clearcast and the broadcasters have considered is:

An advertisement contravenes the prohibition on political advertising if it is:

An advertisement which is inserted by or on behalf of a body whose objects are wholly or mainly of a political nature.

Clearcast’s concerns do not extend to the content or message of the ad.""

So Greenpeace cannot advertise through the Big Four channels !


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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 6:11 pm 
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frog222 wrote:
Hahaha !

" Digested week, digested: Breaking news: Britain is an island that is quite near to France "

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... aab-island


Yes, but we'd never have found that out were it not for Dominic Raab. Credit where credit's due.

No flies on our Dominic. He says, "Raspberries to post-geography!"


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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 7:26 pm 
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Live thread closed, late post — ” ricesneezing 2h ago

"What if we withdrew article 50 at the same time as making cannabis legal. That could work."

We're already into Surreal Country, so why stop here ?


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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 8:11 pm 
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frog222 wrote:
---
An advertisement which is inserted by or on behalf of a body whose objects are wholly or mainly of a political nature.

Clearcast’s concerns do not extend to the content or message of the ad.""
[/i]
So Greenpeace cannot advertise through the Big Four channels !
(cJA emphasis)
Greenpeace isn't a political organisation but that doesn't matter because there's nothing that can't get labeled, POLITICAL and so is pulled
Greenpeace wasn't advertising, Iceland was, no Greenpeace logos anywhere
What's this ad-loving organisation doing with all that power?
No damned good, of course


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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 8:13 pm 
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Four local council byelections yesterday:

Torridge DC - Tory hold with over 55% of the vote, a double figure increase since three years ago. As with some other rural wards this has a varied electoral history - splitting 1LD/1Ind in both 2003 and 2007 before a previous byelection saw the Indies take the LibDem seat in a straight fight in 2009. However the Independents did not even stand in 2011 (or 2015, when UKIP took the runners up spot) and the Tories took advantage - a 1C/1LD split then being followed by a Tory clean sweep last time round. A previous Independent councillor stood in their first electoral outing in almost a decade but had to make do with a quarter of the vote, though that meant the LibDems remained third with a six point drop in their poll. Labour tried their luck here this time round, but scored a modest 6%.

Harlow DC - two separate vacancies saw two Labour holds, but with somewhat varying results. The first saw a comfortable Labour win with just over 50% of the vote, beating the Tories by almost 2 to 1 as the latter saw a double figure drop since May. This ward saw three LibDems returned in the 2002 all-outs and they held it continuously until 2007 (when Labour won in a close 3-way contest) then after a Tory win at their 2008 high point it went Labour again and has remained that way ever since as the LibDem support evaporated post-coalition. A seemingly new outfit, the localist Harlow Alliance, took third place with 10% - just pipping UKIP who improved modestly from earlier this year but are still a long way short of their 2014 peak here when they ran Labour quite a close second; the LibDems came last with 4%, almost unchanged since earlier this year. The other contest was closer as Labour held with 45%, unchanged since May and seven points ahead of the Tories who dropped a fraction. This ward has a similar history to the above but with a few differences - again 3 LibDems in 2002, holding this one until 2008 then Labour taking over from 2010 - with the exception of 2014 when UKIP won during their "annus mirabilis" and the Tories coming from also ran status to make it close in 2015 and again this year. UKIP came third here, though their vote actually continues to decline from its high point - followed by the HA with 5% and the LibDems on 3%, also down.

Ealing - Labour hold with over 70% of the vote, a small increase since earlier this year. This has been a very safe Labour ward reliably returning three members for them in every election since 2002, but the further swing towards them since 2010 has been quite noticeable. Tories also edged up in their extremely distant second, whilst the minor places saw a reversal of fortunes as the LibDems (whose hopeful had a "15 minutes of fame" as their standard bearer in the 2007 Ealing Southall parliamentary vacancy, the good second place obtained then seems rather distant now) doubled their share to 7%, with Greens almost halving to 4%.

Four contests again next week.


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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 8:17 pm 
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https://amp.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ssion=true

Quote:
'It's unfair': UN envoy meets children living in poverty in Scotland
Philip Alston is on a tour of the UK and will report his findings into the causes and effects of poverty next week

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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 8:20 pm 
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citizenJA wrote:
frog222 wrote:
---
An advertisement which is inserted by or on behalf of a body whose objects are wholly or mainly of a political nature.

Clearcast’s concerns do not extend to the content or message of the ad.""
[/i]
So Greenpeace cannot advertise through the Big Four channels !
(cJA emphasis)
Greenpeace isn't a political organisation but that doesn't matter because there's nothing that can't get labeled, POLITICAL and so is pulled
Greenpeace wasn't advertising, Iceland was, no Greenpeace logos anywhere
What's this ad-loving organisation doing with all that power?
No damned good, of course


I can't find any clear indication of why this outfit has any authority.


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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 8:28 pm 
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Serco is in charge of UK Asylum Seeker's provisioning


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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 8:29 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
frog222 wrote:
---
An advertisement which is inserted by or on behalf of a body whose objects are wholly or mainly of a political nature.

Clearcast’s concerns do not extend to the content or message of the ad.""
[/i]
So Greenpeace cannot advertise through the Big Four channels !
(cJA emphasis)
Greenpeace isn't a political organisation but that doesn't matter because there's nothing that can't get labeled, POLITICAL and so is pulled
Greenpeace wasn't advertising, Iceland was, no Greenpeace logos anywhere
What's this ad-loving organisation doing with all that power?
No damned good, of course

I can't find any clear indication of why this outfit has any authority.
That makes two of us


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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 9:01 pm 
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Jo Johnson's resignation letter.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 27041.html

I haven't read every word but I think he's managed to write that without once mentioning NI or the GFA, which is the reason why
Quote:
Instead of Britain “taking back control”, we will cede control to other European countries. This democratic deficit inherent in the prime minister’s proposal is a travesty of Brexit.


Could that be because it makes every single one of them, original Leavers and later May supporters, look like a complete idiot?
How could they not have foreseen this?
I'm seeing people on twitter all the time saying nobody realised the significance of the Irish border in 2016 but I did and I'm sure I'm not alone.

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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 9:10 pm 
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Is Clearcast just an advisory body to companies who wish to place ads but want to avoid future problems (eg fines)? I can't really find any clear "mission statement" of that either. If they are simply a paid advisory agency, how neutral are they (Clearcast) with regard to conflict of interest matters between clients? Is there any oversight of that?


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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 9:33 pm 
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On the subject of NI, a most excellent thread explaining why the DUP get their comeuppance whatever happens, which would be a small consolation.
https://twitter.com/timoconnorbl/status ... 0110920706

Tim O'Connor


@timoconnorbl
10h10 hours ago
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But, because they have painted any movement as capitulation - despite the fact NI with the best of both systems would be awash with so much money Ulster could not just buy an All Black back row, they could buy NZ - they can’t move at all. They’re pinned. It’s stand or fold.


Tim O'Connor


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10h10 hours ago
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Which means they’ll probably stand. But, as noted above, that means they’re going under the bus either way.

There is no option except movement that doesn’t see them go under a bus. And they’ve made that into a fold that will be throwing themselves under a bus.

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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 10:11 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
Is Clearcast just an advisory body to companies who wish to place ads but want to avoid future problems (eg fines)? I can't really find any clear "mission statement" of that either. If they are simply a paid advisory agency, how neutral are they (Clearcast) with regard to conflict of interest matters between clients? Is there any oversight of that?

Quote:
Iceland advert
09th November 2018
Quote:
Clearcast is the body responsible for clearing ads on behalf of the four major UK commercial broadcasters.
We assess all ads against the rules of the UK Code of Broadcast Advertising; Clearcast is not a regulator and we do not ban ads.
The Iceland ad submitted to us is a Greenpeace film which has been appearing on the Greenpeace website for a number of months. The specific rule Clearcast and the broadcasters have considered is:
An advertisement contravenes the prohibition on political advertising if it is:
An advertisement which is inserted by or on behalf of a body whose objects are wholly or mainly of a political nature. Clearcast’s concerns do not extend to the content or message of the ad.
https://www.clearcast.co.uk/press/iceland-advert/
They don't ban ads
what the hell do you do then?


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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 10:12 pm 
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Clearcast took over the work of Broadcast Advertising Clearance Centre (BACC) in January 2008
Quote:
As of 2008 the work (and staff) of the (BACC) was taken over by Clearcast.
Whilst the BACC had been owned and administered only by ITV, Clearcast's shareholders include ITV, C4, Five, Sky, Turner, IDS and Viacom.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadcast ... nce_Centre


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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 10:22 pm 
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citizenJA wrote:
Clearcast took over the work of Broadcast Advertising Clearance Centre (BACC) in January 2008
Quote:
As of 2008 the work (and staff) of the (BACC) was taken over by Clearcast.
Whilst the BACC had been owned and administered only by ITV, Clearcast's shareholders include ITV, C4, Five, Sky, Turner, IDS and Viacom.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadcast ... nce_Centre



You're being very patient with me by supplying (and re-supplying) me with information! My brain is shrouded in a bit of a fog today. But essentially, they work for the broadcasters as some sort of shield.

But they're still a bit of a mystery item, aren't they?


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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 10:33 pm 
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Bloody PF now got Toyah Wilcox earworm.

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PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov, 2018 10:34 pm 
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?

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