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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 7:13 am 
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Morning..all.

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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 7:15 am 
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(Lie in)
New Zealanders turn to get up early (their Sunday)

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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 7:17 am 
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Never the best sleeper but last night was ridiculous about every hour waking up again.I blame the Tories.

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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 7:21 am 
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https://www.gov.uk/government/news/gove ... ng-schools



Government sets out plans to support underperforming schools

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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 7:36 am 
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https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/ ... -childcare


Childminders left up to £1,000 in red by HMRC technical glitch
Chaos at the government’s tax-free childcare scheme means many have gone unpaid

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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 9:30 am 
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https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/c ... ty-expert/
Quote:
‘Chaotic’ universal credit led to disabled man’s death, sister tells UN poverty expert

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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 9:58 am 
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https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... k-machines
Quote:
Supermarkets win ruling against HMRC over bank machines
£500m windfall as court rules ATMs should not be liable for additional business rates


Cash machines are a liability for retailers, provided as a free service to attract customers but not profitable in themselves and a target for criminals with all the security costs and insurance costs that comes with that. The government's reasoning behind charging rates on them is therefore completely unfathomable to me. For many rural areas, the ATM at the local garage/convenience store is the only place people can withdraw cash without making a journey of many miles. Why does the government want to change the balance of cost/benefit of hosting ATM's in a way that would cause many small stores to stop hosting them? Cash still accounts for 50% of all payments. That's a lot of payments. And my hairdresser, despite talking about installing a pdq machine, still only takes cash which would become more difficult for him if there was no longer an ATM in the Co-op next door. I can't work out if there's some kind of hidden agenda to force all transactions to become electronic, given this and the aborted attempt to abolish the personal cheque, or whether those in charge literally have no idea, and don't care, how most people live.

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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 10:16 am 
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HindleA wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/nov/10/childminders-hmrc-tax-free-childcare


Childminders left up to £1,000 in red by HMRC technical glitch
Chaos at the government’s tax-free childcare scheme means many have gone unpaid

Piss-up, brewery etc.

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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 10:21 am 
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Bonjour !

In other good news, a suspicion I may have mentioned before, some local busybody officials here are now pre-empting brexit by treating vulnerable /less well-off Brit residents to the ‘Hostile Environment’.

https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/Brexit

Paywall but the first few words are enough , in English too …

They can hit you if you don’t have enough to live on, through low working income or a pension needing additional old-age special benefits. Some low income people like the gardener in the above example might get by with the top-up of child benefits, which I'm sure are a fair bit higher here . Plus a bit of undeclared work , of course !

Jo Johnson very honest this morning on Toady, tho being a typical evasive politician on his 2015 manifesto promise :-) But that’s POLITICS .

Polly Toynbee and Rachel Sylvester of the Times also on : ” Of course we can Remain …”

I'll edit that "honest" to "rational" !!


Last edited by frog222 on Sat 10 Nov, 2018 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 10:37 am 
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Quotes from this morning's Toady -- https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/fo ... asy-brexit


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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 10:46 am 
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gilsey wrote:
HindleA wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/nov/10/childminders-hmrc-tax-free-childcare


Childminders left up to £1,000 in red by HMRC technical glitch
Chaos at the government’s tax-free childcare scheme means many have gone unpaid

Piss-up, brewery etc.


What gets me is that they get away with it, though.

The last Labour government were hounded over stuff like this. They'll lose the votes of people affected, I guess, but they already poll very badly with parents*, so maybe they've already written those votes off and simply don't care.

Edited to add *of children under 18
Lot's of Tory voters are parents, of course, just not of childcare age!

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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 11:03 am 
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https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ome-system

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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 11:13 am 
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Willow904 wrote:
gilsey wrote:
HindleA wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/nov/10/childminders-hmrc-tax-free-childcare


Childminders left up to £1,000 in red by HMRC technical glitch
Chaos at the government’s tax-free childcare scheme means many have gone unpaid

Piss-up, brewery etc.


What gets me is that they get away with it, though.

The last Labour government were hounded over stuff like this. They'll lose the votes of people affected, I guess, but they already poll very badly with parents*, so maybe they've already written those votes off and simply don't care.

Edited to add *of children under 18
Lot's of Tory voters are parents, of course, just not of childcare age!


The latest Survation poll was striking - over 40% of Tory voters are over 65.

They have a massive lead amongst this group, though - and unlike younger people they always go out and vote. Its what is keeping them afloat electorally.


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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 11:15 am 
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https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/s ... ssion=true

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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 11:54 am 
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Good morfternoon.

Breaking News -

Quote:
Turkey 'shared Khashoggi murder tapes'

Turkey's president says he shared recordings related to murder of Jamal Khashoggi with US, UK, Saudis and others (BBC News website)


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46162759

I never thought that I'd be on President Erdogan's "side".


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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 12:36 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/nov/09/supermarkets-win-ruling-against-hmrc-over-bank-machines
Quote:
Supermarkets win ruling against HMRC over bank machines
£500m windfall as court rules ATMs should not be liable for additional business rates


Cash machines are a liability for retailers, provided as a free service to attract customers but not profitable in themselves and a target for criminals with all the security costs and insurance costs that comes with that. The government's reasoning behind charging rates on them is therefore completely unfathomable to me. For many rural areas, the ATM at the local garage/convenience store is the only place people can withdraw cash without making a journey of many miles. Why does the government want to change the balance of cost/benefit of hosting ATM's in a way that would cause many small stores to stop hosting them? Cash still accounts for 50% of all payments. That's a lot of payments. And my hairdresser, despite talking about installing a pdq machine, still only takes cash which would become more difficult for him if there was no longer an ATM in the Co-op next door. I can't work out if there's some kind of hidden agenda to force all transactions to become electronic, given this and the aborted attempt to abolish the personal cheque, or whether those in charge literally have no idea, and don't care, how most people live.


Cash transactions are not so open to tracking and\or targeting for marketing purposes. That is to say, people who use cash are not so open to manipulation by big business interests (and others).


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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 12:43 pm 
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https://theconversation.com/what-happen ... eal-103939
Quote:
What happens if parliament rejects a Brexit deal?


A logical run through of the various scenarios.

One thing that is fairly obvious is that a Brexit deal will only be rejected if there are Tory rebels. Labour's job right now is surely to find out as much as they can about who those Tory rebels might be and what their next step might be. If they are soft Brexit/remain rebels, what follow up would they support and would it fit Labour's aims? Would Labour be happy to thwart May's Brexit to win a second referendum with remain Tory rebels? Would any group of Tory rebels help Labour trigger a GE (personally I have always thought this extremely unlikely). Would any Tory rebels join the opposition to insist the government asks for an extension to article 50? Would Labour actually want this and how would it be achieved against May's inclinations and with her in a precarious position?

What if the only Tory rebels are hard Brexiters? What would their agenda be? Would they trigger a leadership contest to topple May and proceed with a hard "no deal" Brexit? Would the remain Tories join the opposition to stop them with a vote of no confidence? Would there, indeed, be time left to prevent a "no deal" Brexit if we get to this point?

There's been little indication of any cross party discussions, but I assume they are going on. The difficulty I have in putting my faith in Corbyn, however, is that he has shown resistance to any path - second ref, remain, political declaration for a "Norway option" etc - other than the one option that is least likely to win Tory rebel support, a GE. I just can't see how he gets there and I can't see him agreeing to other aims that may appeal to soft Tory rebels. I see lots of good reasons to vote against May's deal, and in my heart I can't help but empathise with such a stance, but my head just can't see a probable or likely route that flows from it that gets the country to a better place than the relative security of voting for May's deal and banking the certainty of an orderly transition.

Am I really the only one having a hard time imagining Tories, any Tory, voting for an election they are likely to lose? Or would the DUP end it? But would the DUP be more likely to pull the plug over May's deal being approved (with the poss of an eventual Irish Sea border) or over the possibility of a "no deal" Brexit (with the poss of a hard Irish border)?

I'm beyond thinking about it, tbh. We will see what happens. Maybe (probably?) May won't even get a deal. Maybe just trying to get to an agreed position will cause the Tory party to completely implode. We can always hope.....

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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 12:49 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
Good morfternoon.

Breaking News -

Quote:
Turkey 'shared Khashoggi murder tapes'

Turkey's president says he shared recordings related to murder of Jamal Khashoggi with US, UK, Saudis and others (BBC News website)


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46162759

I never thought that I'd be on President Erdogan's "side".


Remember what Churchill said when questioned about backing Stalin over Hitler ;)


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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 2:00 pm 
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SOB's all round !


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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 3:24 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/nov/10/childminders-hmrc-tax-free-childcare

Childminders left up to £1,000 in red by HMRC technical glitch
Chaos at the government’s tax-free childcare scheme means many have gone unpaid
unpaid workers is slavery
Tory Government: Stealing our labour, sleep and longevity

Good-afternoon, everyone


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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 3:30 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
---
The latest Survation poll was striking - over 40% of Tory voters are over 65.

They have a massive lead amongst this group, though - and unlike younger people they always go out and vote. Its what is keeping them afloat electorally.
(cJA edit)

Capsize Tory Government
Vote Labour


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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 3:33 pm 
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I've hopped in using fairly weak levity during a serious discussion and feel a bit awkward now.
I'll read the entire thread.


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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 3:34 pm 
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frog222 wrote:
SOB's all round !

Can't resist this one
Hear, hear!


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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 3:43 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/nov/09/supermarkets-win-ruling-against-hmrc-over-bank-machines
Quote:
Supermarkets win ruling against HMRC over bank machines
£500m windfall as court rules ATMs should not be liable for additional business rates

Cash machines are a liability for retailers, provided as a free service to attract customers but not profitable in themselves and a target for criminals with all the security costs and insurance costs that comes with that. The government's reasoning behind charging rates on them is therefore completely unfathomable to me. For many rural areas, the ATM at the local garage/convenience store is the only place people can withdraw cash without making a journey of many miles. Why does the government want to change the balance of cost/benefit of hosting ATM's in a way that would cause many small stores to stop hosting them? Cash still accounts for 50% of all payments. That's a lot of payments. And my hairdresser, despite talking about installing a pdq machine, still only takes cash which would become more difficult for him if there was no longer an ATM in the Co-op next door. I can't work out if there's some kind of hidden agenda to force all transactions to become electronic, given this and the aborted attempt to abolish the personal cheque, or whether those in charge literally have no idea, and don't care, how most people live.
Can't resist this either
A population without easy access to funds is vulnerable
Tory government loves a vulnerable population


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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 3:46 pm 
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@PorFavor
belated snap


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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 3:49 pm 
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Actually I've forgotten the WSC quote, age is taking its toll ... :-)

That SOB was an American equivalent, LBJ, Nixon ,?

" He's a sonofabitch , but at least he's our sonofabitch."

Tsk !


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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 4:00 pm 
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frog222 wrote:
Actually I've forgotten the WSC quote, age is taking its toll ... :-)

That SOB was an American equivalent, LBJ, Nixon ,?

" He's a sonofabitch , but at least he's our sonofabitch."

Tsk !


Something along the lines of, "If Hitler invaded Hell, I'd have to side with the Devil," I think.



Edited to add -

@AnatolyKasparov - is that the one that you were thinking of?


Last edited by PorFavor on Sat 10 Nov, 2018 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 4:01 pm 
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@Willow904
Many thanks for your latest post here on the final deal or no deal and the House members' potential action
You often write clearly the questions going on in my head


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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 4:03 pm 
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They like creating vulnerability to self define as superior and (not) protect from their own enactions. I

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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 4:04 pm 
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Far from just a Tory thing,to be fair.

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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 4:13 pm 
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Let's cheer the bravery and inspiration of a step a minute ,rather than properly enable

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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 4:18 pm 
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Finally dismantled tomato plants,243,remained,yes I counted them.

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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 4:20 pm 
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The "weak" were the most productive,given a chance.

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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 4:21 pm 
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@HindleA
I agree. Insecure, poorly educated and ill-disciplined people in positions of authority are the bane of others' existence throughout time and history. The UK Tory party's leadership isn't the first group with a disproportionate number of people lacking empathy and sufficient ego strength.


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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 4:23 pm 
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No sanctions,threats of removal,condemnation,accusations of unfairness was involved.

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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 4:30 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
No sanctions,threats of removal,condemnation,accusations of unfairness was involved.


But did they have PIP(s)?


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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 4:30 pm 
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"There is no robust evidence that purposeful removal of the necessary leads to bad effects,it is "complex"but clearly I responsible for the fact I am healthy because of banana intake."

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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 4:35 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
https://theconversation.com/what-happens-if-parliament-rejects-a-brexit-deal-103939
Quote:
What happens if parliament rejects a Brexit deal?

---
(cJA edit)
From the article linked above
Quote:
If the government loses a vote in the House of Commons on a Withdrawal Agreement (and the framework for the future relationship between the UK and EU, which parliament must also approve), it will be prevented from ratifying the deal with the EU.
The constitutional validity of an EU member state withdrawing from the EU takes another hit.


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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 4:35 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
"There is no robust evidence that purposeful removal of the necessary leads to bad effects,it is "complex"but clearly I responsible for the fact I am healthy because of banana intake."


That's what Churchill said when asked about Stalin! It's all coming back to me now . . .


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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 4:36 pm 
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@PF the up their own arse tomato plants were so consumed with jealousy and spite,obsessional observance of watching/bemoaning neighbours they forgot to grow

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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 4:37 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
"There is no robust evidence that purposeful removal of the necessary leads to bad effects,it is "complex"but clearly I responsible for the fact I am healthy because of banana intake."
"I don't recognise that"
I decline acknowledging reality
doubleplus good amen


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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 4:49 pm 
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citizenJA wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
https://theconversation.com/what-happens-if-parliament-rejects-a-brexit-deal-103939
Quote:
What happens if parliament rejects a Brexit deal?
---
(cJA edit)
From the article linked above
Quote:
If the government loses a vote in the House of Commons on a Withdrawal Agreement (and the framework for the future relationship between the UK and EU, which parliament must also approve), it will be prevented from ratifying the deal with the EU.
The constitutional validity of an EU member state withdrawing from the EU takes another hit.
Everyone, remember to take names, reference your sources and date entries in your notes, please. It'll require sorting out, this boondoggle; it'll be regular people doing the heavy lifting, of course. Nothing new in that. Nations and their people depending on our diligence for continued peace and prosperity deserve our best efforts.


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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 4:51 pm 
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Stop laughing, Tarquin


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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 4:54 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
HindleA wrote:
No sanctions,threats of removal,condemnation,accusations of unfairness was involved.


But did they have PIP(s)?
We've used one of ours growing a pear tree in the garden


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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 4:56 pm 
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As many people secure employment from the support group with adequate support and of course participation in general eg.better half was an employer and extensive volunteer.The point being far
from the disgraceful on various levels of misrepresentation of "non contribution"is that non conditionality and such support including social care are crucial.Tbe trouble being that such desire for participation risks actually losing support and income in arse about facery stupidity/fear.Remove the fear,threats etc.as a basic step,threatening people I am afraid results from the decades old mutual.agreement of the parties ,that many shouldn't be there/put on the sick by the other side and need cajoling.

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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 5:05 pm 
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There is a fundamental misunderstanding of the support group,securing employment shouldn't be condemned either "obviously fraudulent" nor "betrayal by casting suspicion"

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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 5:05 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
As many people secure employment from the support group with adequate support and of course participation in general eg.better half was an employer and extensive volunteer.The point being far
from the disgraceful on various levels of misrepresentation of "non contribution"is that non conditionality and such support including social care are crucial.Tbe trouble being that such desire for participation risks actually losing support and income in arse about facery stupidity/fear.Remove the fear,threats etc.as a basic step,threatening people I am afraid results from the decades old mutual.agreement of the parties ,that many shouldn't be there/put on the sick by the other side and need cajoling.
This government only allows resources given to asset and monetary rich Tory supporters. Other people got to find charity. How many times we got to go through this?


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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 5:14 pm 
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They spew money in attending to a "problem"which is a part of the solution,I would say.

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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 5:17 pm 
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Note not just Tory,in general politicos don't get it or fully or if they do are wary.

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PostPosted: Sat 10 Nov, 2018 5:21 pm 
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I have a disdain about looking after the vulnerable stuff and intolerance of "caring for",rather than enabling what should be unquestioned.We are all vulnerable.

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